Just thought I would tell everyone about my experience yesterday when I raced my buddys brand new Ion Redline in my 95 M3.

On a 60mph drop to 3rd, I pulled on him until I let up at 110. He could not make up any ground on me what so ever, and I was still pulling away hard.

When we jumped off the exit ramp, he had no chance around the turn, I was on his bumper holding the inside line, he was having a hard time keeping it on the outside line. (But I do have Koni D/A's too)

At a 10mph roll in 1st, that Redline is a mean machine. I still won, to about an 80mph run, but he was right on my rear quarter, and I was not pulling away. I think the main thing that impressed me the most, is when those cars shift gears, they jump. I swear he jumped on me from 2nd - 3rd about 5 feet. It may have been my shifting, since I have been a victim of a moneyshift, and my timing is still a hair off, but I must say I was still impressed.

But for an 11 year old car, vs a brand new car, I am pretty happy. And since I am NA, I told him let me through a blower on my car, and we will talk again. I just thought I would let everyone know, the M3 wins again, even though it was close, as far as straight line racing is concerned.

should be posted in the kills section....good kill anyway

1. I think the main thing that impressed me the most, is when those cars shift gears, they jump. I swear he jumped on me from 2nd - 3rd about 5 feet.

2. But for an 11 year old car, vs a brand new car, I am pretty happy. And since I am NA, I told him let me through a blower on my car, and we will talk again.

1. Yeah they do that. Impressive.

2. Huh... Blown 2.2 vs. blown 3.2 isnot exactly a fair fight.

2. Huh... Blown 2.2 vs. blown 3.2 isnot exactly a fair fight.

Very true. I am sill happy that the M was able to hang with the age difference, and NA factor.

good kill ....

2. Huh... Blown 2.2 vs. blown 3.2 isnot exactly a fair fight.

...95 = 3.0L

the redline runs a 2.0, same as the cobolt ss.
good runs.

My bad, I thought it was the 2.2 Ecotec with a blower...

Nice kill.

...95 = 3.0L
owned


BTW nice kill

200 vs 240 horsepower, I gotta say I'm impressed that the ion held on. I'll give it the benifit of the doubt probably having all of its hp while your m3 may have lost some over the years to wear and tear, but it gives me hope for my si that I might at least keep up with you e36 m3ers ha ha

-Spargo

Nice kill

I saw a video of a race exactly like this one awhile ago.

200 vs 240 horsepower, I gotta say I'm impressed that the ion held on.
-Spargo


Don't magazine race.

M3s typically put out 210-215 rwhp, and Ions 205-208 whp (yes, not a misprint).

They weigh 2850 lbs, an M3 weighs close to 3200. Still surprised? I'm not.

I need a saturn..lolDon't magazine race.

M3s typically put out 210-215 rwhp, and Ions 205-208 whp (yes, not a misprint).

They weigh 2850 lbs, an M3 weighs close to 3200. Still surprised? I'm not.

haha, when we first were getting to take off, I really thought I would pull hard on him, but I was surprised to have him hang so close. Next time we will go to a track, and launch, and I think I will take him better then. But first I need to fix the timing, and replace the primary chain tensioner.

nice kill! i really hate saturn commercial against the Z4... goes to prove that its taking automotive engineers 10 years to catch up to bimmer =)

My buddy has an redline, we'll probably run them at some point. It's a pretty quick car.

Sounds like a good race. Are both cars stock?

Nice race and congrads on the win. Just don't give the kid with a redline 1000 bucks and the spanking will be handed the other direction. GM sells a stage 2 upgrade kit for them. Brings them up to like 270-280hp(closer to 300hp). Injectors, pulley, and ecu I believe thats it.

Wait guys till the pontiac solstice gxp is released. It changes the potent 2.0l ecotec motor from east and west to north and south setup. Ditchs the supercharger for a turbocharger bringing up the power from 200hp to 260hp putting the power to RWD. The sad to say but the e36 M3 is aging and it going to start having problems with the newer 4 cylinder force induction cars. Sorry its sad to say that about the M3. :(

The e36 m3s show there age, great in the day still a good buy. The new Twin Turbo 3series is whats giving me a hard on with direct injection and awd biased towards the rear, the thing will be a monster with bolt on mods.

as for the redline not a bad car for what it is has modding potential but personally I hate the sound of the ecotec motor

Nice race and congrads on the win. Just don't give the kid with a redline 1000 bucks and the spanking will be handed the other direction. GM sells a stage 2 upgrade kit for them. Brings them up to like 270-280hp(closer to 300hp). Injectors, pulley, and ecu I believe thats it.

Wait guys till the pontiac solstice gxp is released. It changes the potent 2.0l ecotec motor from east and west to north and south setup. Ditchs the supercharger for a turbocharger bringing up the power from 200hp to 260hp putting the power to RWD. The sad to say but the e36 M3 is aging and it going to start having problems with the newer 4 cylinder force induction cars. Sorry its sad to say that about the M3. :(

Mallett Solstice > your car, my car, and three others all combined. That's all that needs to be said about the Solstice.

Mallett Solstice > your car, my car, and three others all combined. That's all that needs to be said about the Solstice.

True. I saw one in person; I only wish I could have had a ride in it. Talk about shoe horned motor by the way.

The Solstice is one piece of crappy ass plastic. Rode in one, and My God, if you'd give me one I'd refuse to take it.

The Solstice is one piece of crappy ass plastic. Rode in one, and My God, if you'd give me one I'd refuse to take it.

Same with the Sky, they're just parts bin cars, but as far as parts bin cars go, they're top of the line. I still wouldn't go that far, but I'd accept ANY car if it was given to me, at the very least I could sell it off!

The Solstice is one piece of crappy ass plastic. Rode in one, and My God, if you'd give me one I'd refuse to take it.


Id hate for you to run into a modded turbo one. With 260hp, 280lbs of tq and almost identical track times to an e46 m3 I think you would be more than a little surprised.

I don't care how fast MODDED ones go. The interior is basically falling apart the minute it comes out of the assembly line. YUCK!

Thats true. I forgot that the e36's interior is known for its durability. :rolleyes

Thats true. I forgot that the e36's interior is known for its durability. :rolleyes


Burn! :laugh

Burn! :laugh

You drive a goddamn Lancer Evolution! That car's interior is made of RAT SKIN!

But really, in some of these cars you can't be crying "MY INTERIOR SUCKS :( :( :(" when it's faster than 99% of cars ever, it's not made for comfort access and luxury, it HAULS ASS.

Quick question.. I think Im quite mistaken. I thought the USspec E36 M3s had more than 250 at the engine?

and damn.. that saturn is fast. I wonder what the gas mileage is?

US Spec e36 M3 (Both 3.0 & 3.2) are rated at 240hp at the engine.

Thats true. I forgot that the e36's interior is known for its durability. :rolleyes


Hey at least it looks good when new, and it takes a few years to fall apart.

The Solstice, however, screams cheapness from the get go.

Hey at least it looks good when new, and it takes a few years to fall apart.

The Solstice, however, screams cheapness from the get go.

Whether it looks good or not is in the eye of the beholder, I personally perfer the looks of the solstice/sky's interior layout to that of an e36. IMO the dash layout for the e36 is akward looking and not very attractive. I would expect a certain level of "cheapness" for such a bang for your buck car such as the solstice, but I wouldnt from a car that was like what 38k brand new? Hell my talon's interior holds up better than my both of my friends M's.

Now of course this is like comparing apples and oranges. The e36 used the interior since 92, and it shows. Comparing the sky's 2006 interior with a car more than a decade old isnt fair, but if you just nit-pick a cars interior then you are ignoring the main fundamentals of this car. Its a car that starts out at 20k, rwd, great handling, and has a turbo option. All Im saying is that you should give the car credit when credit is due.

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/9513/wka2006033060407pvqq3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The Sky isn't so bad.

But the Solstice... my God, the edges on the cupholder show the mold lines, the cupholder itself is the flimsiest piece of crap ever made, you shut the door and it shakes like crazy, the handle is not even firm, it wiggles... and that was a new car!

Also, the hood almost has a downward slope towards the windshield, so if you park on the slightest rear incline, a puddle of water accumulates on the hood. A nightmare, I tell ya.

Hey guys..a friendly Ion RL owner here. Congrats on the kill man..I've always liked the M3 no matter the year. Stock our cars put out anywhere from 205-213whp and are underrated (which is good for us). We're getting around 25+MPG depending on how you drive. If anyone else wants to know anything else about us just let me know..

944 or 951?

Don't magazine race.

M3s typically put out 210-215 rwhp, and Ions 205-208 whp (yes, not a misprint).

They weigh 2850 lbs, an M3 weighs close to 3200. Still surprised? I'm not.
You are confusing E36 M3s with S52 powered E36/7/8s. M3s are weaker on the whp. :stickoutt

944 or 951?

I just sold my 951 and now I'm just left with a 944...I already miss the turbo.

I drove one of these cars and it was dirt slow compared to mine. Ive only been in a stock m3 once but dang it wasnt that much slower than mine. I only have boltons.

It must be a bigger difference that I thought because there is no way that a redline could hang on to me from any roll.

I drove one of these cars and it was dirt slow compared to mine. Ive only been in a stock m3 once but dang it wasnt that much slower than mine. I only have boltons.

It must be a bigger difference that I thought because there is no way that a redline could hang on to me from any roll.

The bad thing about the Redline is that they require being driven a certain way in order to be fast. Sure any idiot can get a long straight open and go 140+ (what our speedos register...they bury stock) and hit the fuel cut off of 155, but to keep the car in the powerband stock is a task at hand. Get the stage kits and/or buy HPTuners (full programability of the ECM) plus some 60lb/hr injectors and a 2.5" pulley for the supercharger and you're running 21lbs of boost, some tuning, maybe throw and intake and exhaust on there and we're nearing 300whp.

The bad thing is..if you hit the rev limiter it's almost game over because our cars pull all the way to the limiter stock and even with a 7000 (stage I) rev limit..currently mine is set to 7300 and after I get internals I'm planning on atleast 8500 RPMs which is, from the dynos of the test vehicles, right about where the power finally starts to peak. It's a fun car to drive and yes the interior sucks, but some of us'll just rip out the interior and work on making a track car for the fun of it.

Hell Id just use the cobalt ss interior :p

It's kinda funny..when they first came out I really liked the Cobalts interior, but hated the exterior. I liked the RL's exterior, but hated the interior (aside from the Recaro seats). I bought a comp package (LSD, boost guage, shifts lights, different wheels) and after awhile I'm so used to the center mounted cluster that it seems odd when I switch to one of my other vehicles.

good kill

The bad thing about the Redline is that they require being driven a certain way in order to be fast. Sure any idiot can get a long straight open and go 140+ (what our speedos register...they bury stock) and hit the fuel cut off of 155, but to keep the car in the powerband stock is a task at hand. Get the stage kits and/or buy HPTuners (full programability of the ECM) plus some 60lb/hr injectors and a 2.5" pulley for the supercharger and you're running 21lbs of boost, some tuning, maybe throw and intake and exhaust on there and we're nearing 300whp.


First off. It didnt feel like it even had a powerband, more like a rubberband. maybe the one I drove had the SC belt missing, but of course it didnt cus I did look under the hood.

Second, what would this magical unicorn way of driving the car be. Honestly, do you not floor it, maybe just shake the gas pedal. Do you have to mess with the E brake. The only possibility would be that you would have to shift way before redline, and since the car didnt even pull before redline that doesnt make sence either........I know how to drive......the one I drove must have been a saturn turd.

It's kinda funny..when they first came out I really liked the Cobalts interior, but hated the exterior. I liked the RL's exterior, but hated the interior (aside from the Recaro seats). I bought a comp package (LSD, boost guage, shifts lights, different wheels) and after awhile I'm so used to the center mounted cluster that it seems odd when I switch to one of my other vehicles.

There should be a digital speedo under the tach and the tach should be by the wheel, but NOOOOOO.

I drove one of these cars and it was dirt slow compared to mine. Ive only been in a stock m3 once but dang it wasnt that much slower than mine. I only have boltons.

It must be a bigger difference that I thought because there is no way that a redline could hang on to me from any roll.

Good god. If your bolt-on M3 (no cams) makes the redline seem "dirt slow", then you must either:
- be putting down 250rwhp with the aid of fairy dust
- the redline was missing it's eaton
...or, more than likely,
- it is just an exaggeration on your part.

If the redline is that slow to you, then by using your same standards, my EVO would make your M3 look like it's being sucked backwards.

I've driven a Redline (slightly modded),and it was not that much slower than my 330ti. Slower..yes, but not "dirt slow", so how about we quit the bullsnit? We're not talking about Ford Festivas, here.


Let's get real.

those ions are such POS!!! i drove my cousins regular ion, it feels like a jetsons space ship!!

is the redline a huge improvement??

Good god. If your bolt-on M3 (no cams) makes the redline seem "dirt slow", then you must either:
- be putting down 250rwhp with the aid of fairy dust
- the redline was missing it's eaton
...or, more than likely,
- it is just an exaggeration on your part.

If the redline is that slow to you, then by using your same standards, my EVO would make your M3 look like it's being sucked backwards.

I've driven a Redline (slightly modded),and it was not that much slower than my 330ti. Slower..yes, but not "dirt slow", so how about we quit the bullsnit? We're not talking about Ford Festivas, here.


Let's get real.

Something must have been seriously wrong with this car. It belongs to this girl whoes dad bought it for her. I could hear the SC whine but it must have been like detuned....lol....im not joking when I say it was NO comparision. Im not saying it was civic slow but, when we got back to my place I gave her a ride in my car.....and she was like Whoa!

I even remember when I floored the car......I kept waiting for the power....and it just never came at all. All I have to judge by is this one car....so maybe it had a squirel living in the cat....

Fair enough. It's not hard to believe that a bolt-on S50, or even a bone-stock S50 E36 will pull on a stock and lightly modded cobalt ss/redline, but I just didn't feel that the moded one I drove was that slow to be considered "dirt slow".

No way am I saying "Ecotec+Eaton M62= Hot death to all cars on the road!!" I'd put them, in terms of power, right about or above a 328is and below an E36 M3 (all cars stock). Stuff gets crazy when you play with pullies, though. The damn thing actually had torque below 3Krpms, which is something I have forgotten since owning my MR (Mega-Rice)

What I consider pitifully slow is an 86 mustang LX (automatic 120hp 4-banger). I regretfully owned one a long time ago. Now that is painfully and embarrassingly slow!

Thanks..yeah there might've been something wrong depending on what year it was (04's are down on power compared to 05's and 06's due to tuning, but that can be made up later). We have almost all of our torque by 2200ish RPMs and with a FWD car that makes it very hard to launch. Mine lights the tires up to the point that unless I'm very careful with throttle control first gear is useless, it spins/smokes going into 2nd, then it gives a hearty chirp into 3rd.

As far as the comparison between the QC and the RL.. There are a few (VERY few..) QC's that'll keep up/edge out a stock RL. Mostly they're the ones either running nitrous or have turboed their cars. I'm not here to bash Bimmers at all, as I said before, because I have mad respect for them and I'm waiting to see how the new twin turbo 3 series is..

Just as a retrospect..I know it isn't fast, but it's atleast fairly quick. Most stage II cars, if the driver can launch, are running low 13's with a few going 13.0X and atleast one SS/SC breaking into the 12's, but he's also using DRs.

If I was close to you I'd gladly toss you the keys to mine, but seeing how you're in TX I'm not driving that far.

As far as the comparison between the QC and the RL..

I thought I read every post, but maybe not. What is the QC?

I thought I read every post, but maybe not. What is the QC?

The QC is the normal Quad Coupe Ion..meaning the basic Ion. I was stuck with one as a loaner car one day and drove it back to my house, parked it, and drove (which I still had at the time) my 951 around because of how horrible it was. I only put the miles it took me to go from the dealer to my house and back on it.

i think afew of these guys are factory racing, to them saturn must automatically = slow as crap, but if you slap a chevy symbol and a ss tag on it, its not a bad car at all. lol

i think afew of these guys are factory racing, to them saturn must automatically = slow as crap, but if you slap a chevy symbol and a ss tag on it, its not a bad car at all. lol

I dont know anyone who respects the impala ss, trailblazer ss, or cobalt ss.

all the ss cars still look just as bad as the normal kind

In the end though the Cobalt SS/SC and the RL are both just cheap speed...

stage 2 kit puts out 241hp and 218ft/lbs tq NOT 300hp, and I'm guessing those factory numbers are crank.

-Spargo

no, the mags dynoed them at 200+ whp.

I dont know anyone who respects the impala ss, trailblazer ss, or cobalt ss.
The last SS I respect is the '96 Impala SS. That is a sweet ride.

ugh saturns...nice kill, id be embarrased if i got killed by a saturn.

The last SS I respect is the '96 Impala SS. That is a sweet ride.

Ill have to agree with you there. :alright

330ti

I was not aware a 330ti existed, that's actually news to me. the "t" means it's a hatchback right, or maybe I'm confused?

The last SS I respect is the '96 Impala SS. That is a sweet ride.

+1.

no, the mags dynoed them at 200+ whp.


yeah 200+ ie 241 like i said. No way they put out a kit that claims 241 and actually puts out 300+, the thing must have had a lot more done to it.

http://videos.streetfire.net/category/Chevrolet/0/a34817d2-b771-473b-8ff3-981e00c1be42.htm

-Spargo

If a Redline was putting out a true 300WHP it has alot more done to it than stage II...most stage II cars are sitting around the 240-250 range. I/H/E and a smaller pulley will throw it up in the 260+ range. Swap out to 60lb/hr injectors and a 2.5 pulley, tuning for 100 octane, and a few other things will get you close to if not over 300whp..

If you're smart you'll just go straight to 60lbs, 2.5, a stock Cobra HE inline with the factory HE for the intercooler (aftercooler really), and either buy HPTuners yourself or have someone with HPTuners set you up with a tune.

What's funny is how many problems those of us with the Redlines run into with Saturn dealerships because alot of them have no clue about our cars. I think that this will happen when the Sky RL (turbo) comes out as well. Our dealerships are used to the people who just roll over to whatever they say and are not actual car guys as -alot- of the RL owners are. Most often we'll go to the dealership with a problem that's still under warrenty and we'll know more than the techs there.

As for getting trounced by a Saturn.....our aftermarket is finally growing outside of us getting tired and making things ourselves. Once a viable solution for our twincharge setups is avaliable I think it won't be uncommon to see 350+whp ecos..

On a side note, speaking of horrible looking cars, Dodge SRT-4. To this day, my buddy has one with the mopar stage 3 in it. Its the fastest car i've ever ridden in and i've planted my ass in many a blown seat. Just throwin it out there.

No offense but Id rather have a srt-4 than a ti.

ha ha burn by spoolin, but this all feeds into the same debate. Oh all you need is this this this this and this and bam! a bazzilion hp! i mean forget about reliability issues pushing that much out of an engine. I'd still say you're better off with the honda, feels better to me if you want to feed the racer in you, the gti if you want something more subdued and less reliable.

-Spargo

I'm not saying a bazzilion..the Ecotec (btw their race version is our engine only sleeved and with internals...) has been proven to handle the power reliably..I don't see how replacing the internals and adding more boost is so hard to believe to get you into the 350+ range.. I'm not forgetting about reliability..currently we have a engine that has all of his internals and, instead of taking the sane route and either swapping to a whipple or twincharging, he raised his compression. So he's really our test bunny right now running 10.5:1 compression and I believe he threw his 2.6 on right now so he's looking at 18+PSI.

I was not aware a 330ti existed, that's actually news to me. the "t" means it's a hatchback right, or maybe I'm confused?


Easy recipe.

Take one part S50 from '95 M3
Add to one part 318ti

Voila...330ti. I sold it a while back. Pics below.

Look at the profile about 4 posts above me. He's got a 328ti. Guess that recipe.

hmmm, 328ti, now if thats not a sleeper...

The last SS I respect is the '96 Impala SS. That is a sweet ride.

Yeah, my buddy's '02 Camaro SS REALLY SUCKS!!!! :rolleyes

...although I'm also a fan of the old Impala SS's... Those were alright.

ha ha burn by spoolin, but this all feeds into the same debate. Oh all you need is this this this this and this and bam! a bazzilion hp! i mean forget about reliability issues pushing that much out of an engine. I'd still say you're better off with the honda, feels better to me if you want to feed the racer in you, the gti if you want something more subdued and less reliable.

-Spargo


We're all enthusiats, we wouldnt be here if we werent. We are all trying to get as much out of our cars to make it the best it possibly can be. The thing thats so great about boosted cars from the factory is that in stock form they preform very conservatively. Factories do this to maintain as much reliability as possible as well as keeping it smogable. By upgrading the weak links of the system (turbo, intercooler, fuel) you can gain huge increases in power without having to sacrifice an arm and a leg.

Example- an exhaust system on a n/a car doesnt make a huge difference in the car aside from tone. Maybe 5 hp will be gained if youre lucky. Now with turbo cars a full exhaust is essential to really let the car breathe. If you take out the cat, its not surprising to see gains of 15hp, in addition to a much greater top end.

Now with turbo cars a full exhaust is essential to really let the car breathe. If you take out the cat, its not surprising to see gains of 15hp, in addition to a much greater top end.

...which is why the new turbo Mini Coopers are gonna be a riot.

...which is why the new turbo Mini Coopers are gonna be a riot.

Yup, pretty much any car that came turbo from the factory has a big tuning community behind it.(srt-4, gnx, dsms, supra :P) Of course there are a few exceptions to my previous statement.

Im sure the twin-turbo 3 series will be a huge hit as well. (335i SE right?)

Yeah..I'm waiting to see the turbo 3 series..along with a turbo Cooper. Has the older style Cooper with the Hayabusa engine been posted on here?

I'm just saying I find it silly when people compare cars in terms of potential especially with a full internal redo. I'm sure if I get my civic I can replace rods and heads and get a turbo kit cheap, and put down the same or more power, Hondas are well known for racing, and the K series has gained a lot of cred. Kits for the honda (because of the focus of the tuner sceene) will end up cheaper and with more choice, probably better built. Admitadly the tuner scene is turning to these up and commers, but a car like the civic remains the standby.

The SS can produce a lot of power, the ecotec engine is famous, the ariel atom has it as an option and its used in a lot of buggies and race vehicles, but I don't see what the point is in trying to build it up as though its a better car because you can get power out of it with mods, same goes for any sport compact right now.

-Spargo

Well..then I'll just say that 300+ whp is attainable with stock internals.. Fair nuff?

I'm just saying I find it silly when people compare cars in terms of potential especially with a full internal redo. I'm sure if I get my civic I can replace rods and heads and get a turbo kit cheap, and put down the same or more power, Hondas are well known for racing, and the K series has gained a lot of cred. Kits for the honda (because of the focus of the tuner sceene) will end up cheaper and with more choice, probably better built. Admitadly the tuner scene is turning to these up and commers, but a car like the civic remains the standby.

The SS can produce a lot of power, the ecotec engine is famous, the ariel atom has it as an option and its used in a lot of buggies and race vehicles, but I don't see what the point is in trying to build it up as though its a better car because you can get power out of it with mods, same goes for any sport compact right now.

-Spargo

Agreed, I just find it a burden to buy a car that needs more than bolt-ons to get a certain level of power.