Well it happened...my engine ended up failing just 2 short laps into the sprint race on Sat. It was a very disturbing event for me and one which I'll remmember for sure...when my car was dynoed just this year with dismal numbers of 215 whp and 190 wtq on a Mustang Dyno and then equally terrible 220 whp and 201 wtq on a Dynapak Dyno :( with newly installed Sunbelt cams and 3.2 headers (switched from Shricks to Sunbelts at the time) on a 3.0L US motor etc...etc..the engine was never touched, opened up, torn down, "built or worked" etc...or anything like that... it's always been as it was in '95 from the factory...I replaced a head gasket in '03 and it had bolt ons like Euro HFM, injectors, cams, chip put in and that's it... it wasn't "a built motor" at all. I was very disappointed so asked around and it was unanimous that something was wrong with the engine, perhaps the amount of usage, maybe the setup and/or parts, installation and what not...apparently we'd need to do more investigating to find out exactly what was wrong...all I know was that the car was severely underpowered and that was agreed upon across the board from a couple of shops and vendors, no blame was put anywhere just an overall agreement that things, whatever they were (and perhaps multiple factors) were not right...still raced the car at VIR in April and then NASA Summit Point in July and was advised to keep an eye on the engine and just drive the car and see what happens...

So fast forward to Summit...Quali on Sat for the sprint the car was holding up ...Adam Hafford (HP E46 M3), Randy Mueller (IP E36 M3), Bob Ball (DM 2002), and myself (HP E36 M3Ltw) all qualified in the 1:23's ...Davis Reiman did a blistering 1:22 :eek: so he and Abrahams were grouped a couple of rows ahead in the start...it was a tightly packed grid and a very fast group with 3 Mod cars in the 1:19's:eyecrazy..

2 laps into the spint as I'm coming around the carousel I notice my oil pressure guage has dropped to zero:help and the warning light was on...so I bring the car into the pit...Jack Money, Vince Leo, and Roger (who was crewing for me) come up and ask me what's wrong...they figure it may have been the guage error so I went back out...then the most trrible sounds started happening...the car sounded like a diesel truck, it was jerking me back and forth and you could feel the engine through the steering wheel...it was an aweful sound and as the revs built the sound got worse and the car was making no power at all...I brought it in and shut it down...my weekend was over...

Randy, the Balls, Watts and some other good folks gave me some suggestions to trouble shoot and check what was wrong and it was seen that there was a loss of oil circulation...I was told that what I was hearing was spun bearing(s) which lead to rod knock which were caused by the absense of oil pressure...this may have been the result of the infamous oil pump nut:mad ...not sure yet...a tear down is in order to see what happened...

so that's it, that's my Summit point story...ironicly it seems like almost every race I'd been to I've seen "that guy" the one who has the catastrophic failure, engine blows up or something...and I thought to myself "man it'd really suck to be that guy"...well this was my weekend...I was "that guy" and understood what that felt like...and it ain't good :(

but thanks to the club racing family full of friends who still made the weekend a good one...offered advise, suggestions, and help...and beers to sooth the pain:stickoutt ...it's the people involved that make the weekends memorable as well as the the good racing:)

Sunir: Bummer man, but welcome to the club, it happens. And, it's never a gauge problem. Glad the good folks stepped up with the cold ones to ease the pain. Get it fixed and get back out there.

James Posig
JMT TrackCars
#231 GTS 2

I believe I saw your car at SUmmit Pt, it looked like a combination of an electrical fire and a coolant hose bursting. Didn't realize it was a seized motor! SOrry about the bad luck! It was very nice to see your LTW in person though, I was running on Shenandoah at the Time Attack.

Scott

I believe I saw your car at SUmmit Pt, it looked like a combination of an electrical fire and a coolant hose bursting. Didn't realize it was a seized motor! SOrry about the bad luck! It was very nice to see your LTW in person though, I was running on Shenandoah at the Time Attack.

Scott

no, that wasn't sunir's car. the ltw you are talking about was a street car w/ full interior. my stomach did turn a little when i saw it

sorry to hear about that Sunir... but maybe now you can get:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=577646

Sorry to hear of the misfortune...but I have a question...

If your motor is that much under powered, how in the world are you qualifying w/in a second of cars that are the same weight (or in the E46's case a 150lbs more) with proven HP. Randy's car, history aside, is damn quick and has a competent pilot. I have a little trouble believing you gave up 50rwhp minimum to an E46 M3 and qualified w/in a second of him.

Not a bash, flame, etc...but your on-track results seriously conflict with your HP numbers. I've raced with Randy...he's ballsy and quick even on a track that's new to him. His car is on AA's website for a reason...it's making some power.

Sorry to hear of the misfortune...but I have a question...

If your motor is that much under powered, how in the world are you qualifying w/in a second of cars that are the same weight (or in the E46's case a 150lbs more) with proven HP. Randy's car, history aside, is damn quick and has a competent pilot. I have a little trouble believing you gave up 50rwhp minimum to an E46 M3 and qualified w/in a second of him.

Not a bash, flame, etc...but your on-track results seriously conflict with your HP numbers. I've raced with Randy...he's ballsy and quick even on a track that's new to him. His car is on AA's website for a reason...it's making some power.

Summit's my home track...I have dated dyno sheets from both dynos if interested...I could have them scanned and posted...or if you'd like I can refer you to folks who have seen the sheets and with whom I've discussed this issue. HP E36 M3 LTW, HP E46 M3, and IP E36 M3 each have different min weights. Randy and Adam's cars are both heavier than mine and should be as per the rules...so I am quilifying within a sec of cars that are NOT "the same weight" as you said above...

If you're questioning my integrity in terms of what I speak, and/or my dyno numbers than I will provide the information that I have, I was not happy with the results I got from the dynos, in fact I was very concerned, and here you think I'm making $hit up, wtf why would I do that??... I did not wish to talk about this in the past because since we had not been able to identify to specific cause of the dismal numbers and power loss I didn't want to make the information public but rather talk to the shop(s) and vendors or people whom I worked with or obtained parts from.

You don't know me or how I drive, the tracks I drive, or anything about me...you're basing your entire argument on a subjective view of Randy based on your experiences of driving against him and his car etc...etc...I've know Randy since VIR of 2004, he's a friend and yes he is fast and his car makes very good power....yet you're questioning my integrity on a public forum based on your assumptions drawn from purely subjective speculation.

Im pulling my engine today to see my carnage, dmod here I come. Sunir come play in mod :)

Sunir,

Sounds like an oil pump nut.
Before you put the next lump in the car, drop the pan and secure that nut. Very simple/cheap to do w/ the motor out.

Im pulling my engine today to see my carnage, dmod here I come. Sunir come play in mod :)

nope gonna stay in Prepared...don't have the $$$ for mod...

I showed you my dyno sheets yesterday when I went over to your paddock...Dave seems to think I am making stuff up here...

Sorry, I heard you had the big one. It happens. Now throw a euro motor and some weight in and go dominate GTS3 in NASA.

Sunir, built a solid motor and go into mod.

Just a rule of thumb, always try to stop immediately when you see the guage go to zero oil pressure. Unless you are on the last lap of the 24hrs or something, pull off and evaluate the situation, it can save you a race, money and a big headache. Eitherway sorry to hear about the motor probs, get that check book out ;)

Anyone else run the sunbelt cams this weekend?

Summit's my home track...I have dated dyno sheets from both dynos if interested...I could have them scanned and posted...or if you'd like I can refer you to folks who have seen the sheets and with whom I've discussed this issue. HP E36 M3 LTW, HP E46 M3, and IP E36 M3 each have different min weights. Randy and Adam's cars are both heavier than mine and should be as per the rules...so I am quilifying within a sec of cars that are NOT "the same weight" as you said above...

If you're questioning my integrity in terms of what I speak, and/or my dyno numbers than I will provide the information that I have, I was not happy with the results I got from the dynos, in fact I was very concerned, and here you think I'm making $hit up, wtf why would I do that??... I did not wish to talk about this in the past because since we had not been able to identify to specific cause of the dismal numbers and power loss I didn't want to make the information public but rather talk to the shop(s) and vendors or people whom I worked with or obtained parts from.


Do you have a problem with me that I don't know about, Sunir? I didn't question your integrity. I simply pointed out that there is a discrepancy between what your weight is, your hp is, and your lap times relative to someone who is known to be a pretty quick competitor. OK, it's your home track. OK, I suppose it's possible that Randy had an off weekend. I wasn't pointing a finger at you. I was asking about something that is simply a bit perplexing.

Frankly, you're giving away 200 pounds for 50 RWHP at a minimum. I simply find it somewhat surprising that you were obviously very competitive given that handicap.

To illustrate what I found a bit perplexing:

Your rwhp: 220
Your weight: 2832
Your ratio: 12.87

HP E46M3 weight: 3278
HP E46M3 rwhp: 275 (this is a 100% stock motor and there are hundreds of dyno's to support it)
HP E46M3 ratio: 11.92

IP E36M3 weight: 3048
IP E36M3 rwhp: 270*
IP E36M3 ratio: 11.29

*Never owned one, never dyno'd one. This is simply "what I'm told" is near, but not 100% of, the top of the range. I think it's probably fair to say that Randy's effort is near the top of the range. I know he has out-drag raced me on the long straights of TWS.

Sunir, built a solid motor and go into mod.

Just a rule of thumb, always try to stop immediately when you see the guage go to zero oil pressure. Unless you are on the last lap of the 24hrs or something, pull off and evaluate the situation, it can save you a race, money and a big headache. Eitherway sorry to hear about the motor probs, get that check book out ;)

Anyone else run the sunbelt cams this weekend?

thanks Steve...the cams were actually put in around Feb of this year (so when I said newly installed it meant for this season not this race)...the car was dyno tuned at Cyntex in March (Dyno sheet #1) and then run at VIR in april, then Dynoed again in July for the NASA GTS race since I was told that a dyno sheet no longer than a month or so would be required, this was done at York Auto in MD which is not a mustang but rather a dynapack I believe (Dyno Sheet #2)...since the initial dyno sheet I'd been in discussions with vendors, shops and folks about this but chose not to discuss it openly, we cannot point the finger until or unless we've found the cause of the dismal numbers so before the engine went, that was what I wanted to do and do it in a respectful way to the shops and vendors involved.

Do you have a problem with me that I don't know about, Sunir? I didn't question your integrity. I simply pointed out that there is a discrepancy between what your weight is, your hp is, and your lap times relative to someone who is known to be a pretty quick competitor. OK, it's your home track. OK, I suppose it's possible that Randy had an off weekend. I wasn't pointing a finger at you. I was asking about something that is simply a bit perplexing.

Frankly, you're giving away 200 pounds for 50 RWHP at a minimum. I simply find it somewhat surprising that you were obviously very competitive given that handicap.

To illustrate what I found a bit perplexing:

Your rwhp: 220
Your weight: 2832
Your ratio: 12.87

HP E46M3 weight: 3278
HP E46M3 rwhp: 275 (this is a 100% stock motor and there are hundreds of dyno's to support it)
HP E46M3 ratio: 11.92

IP E36M3 weight: 3048
IP E36M3 rwhp: 270*
IP E36M3 ratio: 11.29

*Never owned one, never dyno'd one. This is simply "what I'm told" is near, but not 100% of, the top of the range. I think it's probably fair to say that Randy's effort is near the top of the range. I know he has out-drag raced me on the long straights of TWS.
Sunir is very quick.

More important, he's been very helpful in making me reasonably quick. :)

Don't expect to get any hardcopies from cyntex, its probably with the FBI/Gov't right now ;)

Cool, well goodluck getting everything back together, racings a bitch lol

Do you have a problem with me that I don't know about, Sunir? I didn't question your integrity. I simply pointed out that there is a discrepancy between what your weight is, your hp is, and your lap times relative to someone who is known to be a pretty quick competitor. OK, it's your home track. OK, I suppose it's possible that Randy had an off weekend. I wasn't pointing a finger at you. I was asking about something that is simply a bit perplexing.

Frankly, you're giving away 200 pounds for 50 RWHP at a minimum. I simply find it somewhat surprising that you were obviously very competitive given that handicap.

To illustrate what I found a bit perplexing:

Your rwhp: 220
Your weight: 2832
Your ratio: 12.87

HP E46M3 weight: 3278
HP E46M3 rwhp: 275 (this is a 100% stock motor and there are hundreds of dyno's to support it)
HP E46M3 ratio: 11.92

IP E36M3 weight: 3048
IP E36M3 rwhp: 270*
IP E36M3 ratio: 11.29

*Never owned one, never dyno'd one. This is simply "what I'm told" is near, but not 100% of, the top of the range. I think it's probably fair to say that Randy's effort is near the top of the range. I know he has out-drag raced me on the long straights of TWS.

I don't know what to say Dave...I can scan both dyno sheets, plus my weight sheet from the shop (I think it was 2841 on Ed York's scales) ...and then let you draw your own conclusions...

have you driven agianst me, seen me drive, know my car or anything like that? I only have facts about information...and you're perplexed about figures...I drove my car out there just like everyone else...that resulted in the times that it did, that is a fact. Also a fact are my dyno sheets and my scales results from the shop...

I have nothing against you, it's just that you're basing my performance on Randy and you don't know me, have never raced against me, have never met me or seen my car or been to Summit Point...

Don't expect to get any hardcopies from cyntex, its probably with the FBI/Gov't right now ;)

Cool, well goodluck getting everything back together, racings a bitch lol

lol...that's why I saved my hard copy I got back when I went to go pick the car up from Bavarian in March...

i've seen sunir's dyno sheets as well as had many conversations with him about his issues....i've also "drag raced" him down the back straight at vir, his car is lighter and he has a slightly lower rear end...my car still pulled away from his...his car is/was definitely down on power...

summit is a shorter track that doesnt really cater to big hp and its sunir's home track...it doesnt surpise me that he could stay within a second (which is quite a bit of time on a shorter track) of an IP and another HP car...

Now throw a euro motor and some weight in and go dominate GTS3 in NASA.
bring it!!!!

see you at RA!

I don't know what to say Dave...I can scan both dyno sheets, plus my weight sheet from the shop (I think it was 2841 on Ed York's scales) ...and then let you draw your own conclusions...

have you driven agianst me, seen me drive, know my car or anything like that? I only have facts about information...and you're perplexed about figures...I drove my car out there just like everyone else...that resulted in the times that it did, that is a fact. Also a fact are my dyno sheets and my scales results from the shop...

I have nothing against you, it's just that you're basing my performance on Randy and you don't know me, have never raced against me, have never met me or seen my car or been to Summit Point...

Well golly, Sunir. Sorry for not having immediatly thought that you are 2nd in line behind Kimi for that slot driving the little red cars. What was I thinking? Nevermind that I've raced with Randy and watched him pretty much dominate fields populated by guys with plenty of seat time in well put together cars at THEIR home track. Randy isn't the end all, but having seen him drive and seen his car scoot, it's not an unreasonable benchmark.

Yeah, let's just draw our own conclusions instead of pointing out things that don't quite seem to jibe. It seems to me you've drawn your conclusion about me and what I think.

BTW, don't you think it's at all strange that their is a 5hp difference between the two types of dyno's? :smirk

I'm done...movin' along now...

BTW, don't you think it's at all strange that their is a 5hp difference between the two types of dyno's? :smirk




Are you serious?

No 2 dyno's are gonna yield the same result, even if they are the same brand/make/model. A 5hp difference from one type of dyno to another is almost nothing, if not to be expected.

Dave, honestly I think you're a good dude...you always have been with me even though I've never met you it seems that from online we get along well...I have nothing at all against you which is why I kinda got startled from your post man, no big deal...yeah I also questioned my numbers but moreso wondering what the heck was wrong to make them as such...

I know Randy also and he is quick I'm not debating or doubting that, I'm just basing what I said from my dyno sheets, my scale sheet and what the laptime sheets indicated, that's all...I'm not even pulling Randy into the equation.

As for the difference in the 2 types of dynos I did notice that...I didn't know if the dynos read similar or not...all I can tell you is that one was from Cyntx and the other is from York Automotive...

I will try and get the dynos and scale sheet scanned and email them to someone who can post them for me or host them so I can cut and paste the URL and get them online.

Are you serious?

No 2 dyno's are gonna yield the same result, even if they are the same brand/make/model. A 5hp difference from one type of dyno to another is almost nothing, if not to be expected.

And further, those are Mustang and Dynopack numbers... Mustang RWHP is what the rear wheels put down. Dynopack they take off your wheels and measure straight from the hub. Two totally different dyno styles, and dynopack is notorious for reading higher than any others.

And further, those are Mustang and Dynopack numbers... Mustang RWHP is what the rear wheels put down. Dynopack they take off your wheels and measure straight from the hub. Two totally different dyno styles, and dynopack is notorious for reading higher than any others.

This is also why there is a allowance in the NASA rules for dyno-variance.. but what does it matter in CCA? They arent required to dyno.

Sunir.. this is what you do.. have Dave pay for a protest and while they have your engine apart... use the free labor to fix your car ;) :lol

And further, those are Mustang and Dynopack numbers... Mustang RWHP is what the rear wheels put down. Dynopack they take off your wheels and measure straight from the hub. Two totally different dyno styles, and dynopack is notorious for reading higher than any others.

I pulled the charts and am getting them scaned now...one says Mustand and the other says Dyno Dynamics Dynamometer...so the one at Yorks is a Dyno Dynamics unit and not a Dynopack, I will call and ask Ed to verify but I am working on getting the data up to post it.

I pulled the charts and am getting them scaned now...one says Mustand and the other says Dyno Dynamics Dynamometer...so the one at Yorks is a Dyno Dynamics unit and not a Dynopack, I will call and ask Ed to verify but I am working on getting the data up to post it.

Ah... I was wondering why the difference was so small! Dynopacks usually read 15-20hp higher on these cars... ridiculous.

Are you serious?

No 2 dyno's are gonna yield the same result, even if they are the same brand/make/model. A 5hp difference from one type of dyno to another is almost nothing, if not to be expected.
actually, between those two types, a much larger difference is to be expected, no?

I pulled the charts and am getting them scaned now...one says Mustand and the other says Dyno Dynamics Dynamometer...so the one at Yorks is a Dyno Dynamics unit and not a Dynopack, I will call and ask Ed to verify but I am working on getting the data up to post it.
Interesting. Isn't the DD a variable loading type?

Anyway...tempest in a fooking teapot. Whatever.

A friend has been kind enough to host the PDF file with the data sheets on it...you will find in order of pages:

1) Dyno sheet numeric data (York Auto) - 6/29
2) Dyno chart (York Auto) - 6/29
3) Dyno sheet from Cyntex (which it says on the sheet that it's a Mustang) - Feb 06
4) Scale and corner sheet (York Auto before I picked the car up for the NASA race...first week of July)

the link to the information/evidence:

http://hamptonmaher.com/sunir/TFI_8.7.06.PDF

well, I guess what the motor did before is less relavent...time to move on and build up a nice prepared class engine. Can u run a 3.2L and still be legal in HP?


A friend has been kind enough to host the PDF file with the data sheets on it...you will find in order of pages:

1) Dyno sheet numeric data (York Auto) - 6/29
2) Dyno chart (York Auto) - 6/29
3) Dyno sheet from Cyntex (which it says on the sheet that it's a Mustang) - Feb 06
4) Scale and corner sheet (York Auto before I picked the car up for the NASA race...first week of July)

the link to the information/evidence:

http://hamptonmaher.com/sunir/TFI_8.7.06.PDF

Very sorry to hear, Sunir.

I thought I noticed a MAR club racer missing on Sunday... I hope you can get this resolved and be back out there asap.

The sound you heard was probably your camshafts snapping in half, when you get low on pressure the first thing to go is the exhaust side of the cams, should be a cheap rebuild(i speak from experience) replace the cams, cam trays, lifters and springs, and check the bottom end, i'll bet the lower end is ok because it has some oil pickup from pan and windage tray..just my 2 cents. but depends on how far/long you drive it

Minus the cost of cams, if you shop around for parts you can rebuild the important stauff for less than $1000(ok relatively cheap)

Sunir, 190lbs for the driver? You must be telling fibs about everything...:)
I have d a few US 3.2 motors if you need some spares cheap. My garage is starting to resemble a recycle yard for supercharger experiments.
Sorry to hear about the engine. I certainly feel you're pain.

Damn that sucks Sunir.

Sunir, 190lbs for the driver? You must be telling fibs about everything...:)

That's what I was thinking :D

Sorry to hear sunir, I'm sure you'll get it back out there. And I agree w/Steve, go S54. May as well be competitive in CM as you know more and more HP E46 M3's are going to be showing up out there.

Sorry to hear it Sunir. Wishing you a speedy return.

Sorry for the misfortune, Sunir. We all get our turn, it's just a matter of time. So, my car always gets faster before it blows up. Did you have a similar experiance?

-Sean T

Gotta say its gonna be intresting to see you running with a proper engine once this not so fun process is over, your gonna go fast as stink mabey some sort of good can come out of this. We drained my oil and found nice peices of metal in it so its gonna go on the shelf till the winter and Ill throw in a 2.8 we have for now I hate this whole spinning bearing thing now.

Sorry for the misfortune, Sunir. We all get our turn, it's just a matter of time. So, my car always gets faster before it blows up. Did you have a similar experiance?
-Sean T


Hated to see you miss out on so much fun at SP. I've had too many turns myself...including one at the National Championship Race at TWS where I was the fastest car by nearly 3 seconds per lap prior to the dreadful popping noise that ended the fun a bit early for me to win the big event and another on the third lap of practice after the super long tow from east TN to Fontana CA O'Fest race (when I became undisputed Tow Disaster King). It's a shame that it has to happen to anyone, but hopefully we'll see you out there again SOON!

Sunir, 190lbs for the driver? You must be telling fibs about everything...:)
I have d a few US 3.2 motors if you need some spares cheap. My garage is starting to resemble a recycle yard for supercharger experiments.
Sorry to hear about the engine. I certainly feel you're pain.

driver weight should have been 219...Ed did the balance and scaling with 190 lb driver and got to 2841...it's actually 29 lbs more so the true weight of my HP M3 LTW with 1/4 tank fuel and me is 2870 lbs... a considerable amount more than the minimum weight of 2832 lbs per the spec on the rule book...

I need to start loosing weight...:)

Gauge failure! :lol :lol Sorry man, I just don't know how many times I've heard someone say that right b/f catostrophic engine failure. Good luck on the rebuild and sorry to hear about your loss.

A moment of silence for another great S50 gone......Amen.

Hey Sunir,

If you ever find out what the issue was with your motor (before the failure) I'd love to know, since my s50 is putting down 219 rwhp on a Mustang dyno, with 193 tq. The motor has shricks, 2.5" HFM, 24# injectors, JC software, pullies, etc. I do however have a VAC oil pan baffle and welded oil pump nut, so while our motors are(were) similar, I hope to avoid the sudden zero oil pressure! Sorry to hear, and good luck with the rebuild.

Gauge failure!

I recently lost my OPN (http://www.cs.utah.edu/~tag/movies/mmp_opn.wmv). Nothing crazy, just coming out of a turn and the idiot light comes on. Like an idiot, I didn't kill the car immediately, but at least I did coast to pit in which is just a few hundred feet and then killed it.

When I was checking the oil level etc. in the pits I had several people say that it was probably just a sensor/gauge failure. I'm really glad I didn't run it more.

After towing back to the garage, sure enough the OPN was down in the pan. It won't be coming off again. :devillook Knock on wood, I think I managed to dodge the bullet.

Sorry that you were not able to do the same. :( As others have said, if the light comes on, kill the car and park it as soon as you can find a safe location. Better safe than sorry.

The incident has made me pull the trigger on an MXL to get additional warning lights and true gauges (i.e. more than simple idiot lights) (As well as the other benefits of the dash.)

have you guys checked your compression? I mean it could only be a few things if youre low on power, timing, fuel(hows the injectors, and fuel pump)? VANOS timing correct, or compression.

My motor will be finished once i get the last few parts in, a relatively cheap rebuild all in all..

the other thing people need to check is the oil pump bolts themselves, about 6 months ago, my oil pump failed, it wasn't the nut, it was the 4 bolts that hold the oil pump together, they appparently back out.....

Like so........
http://www.extremespeedonline.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=7978&g2_serialNumber=2

have you guys checked your compression? I mean it could only be a few things if youre low on power, timing, fuel(hows the injectors, and fuel pump)? VANOS timing correct, or compression.

My motor will be finished once i get the last few parts in, a relatively cheap rebuild all in all..

the other thing people need to check is the oil pump bolts themselves, about 6 months ago, my oil pump failed, it wasn't the nut, it was the 4 bolts that hold the oil pump together, they appparently back out.....

Like so........
http://www.extremespeedonline.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=7978&g2_serialNumber=2

excellent info Eric...in fact a compression and leakdown had been done on the engine at two different points of time which yeilded values which were not exact but similar. Specific attention will be given to the oil pump nut and surrounding assembly next time around, regardless of a rebuild or using a donor used bottom end or whatnot...as well as timing, fuel, VANOS, and A/F readings...

Sorry for the misfortune, Sunir. We all get our turn, it's just a matter of time. So, my car always gets faster before it blows up. Did you have a similar experiance?

-Sean T

thanks Sean yeah I guess we all do get our turn...it sucks though:help ...in truth the engine didn't seem any more or less stronger at the specific time it went...however in general from the VIR race weekend in April through to this past weekend at Summit it hasn't felt strong at all...I didn't baseline dyno (which I'm still mad at myself for not doing) the car before I made changes in terms of cams, headers, and a re-tune so if I had to do it again that's what i'd do just to have a clearer idea of the factors that may have contributed to the power loss during that time...and to get a before and after comparison

This is also why there is a allowance in the NASA rules for dyno-variance.. but what does it matter in CCA? They arent required to dyno.

Sunir.. this is what you do.. have Dave pay for a protest and while they have your engine apart... use the free labor to fix your car ;) :lol

Now that is an out of the box thinker!!!

Chris

Sorry, I don't mean to be an ass but I can't help asking: why didn't you pull off immediately when the oil pressure dropped? Driving all the way from the carousel to the pit is bad enough, but going back out because someone thinks it's a gauge problem seems awfully risky.

Sunir, sorry to hear about your troubles...been there and done that several times. I find it odd that people are questioning your integrity at a time like this. If I had an issue with a car or driver I would bite my tongue about it if the car just blew up, anyway.

During my last race I heard a high pitched rattle with a complete loss of oil pressure, this happened above 7000rpm. I pulled off the track and shut her down...turns out it's a failed oil pump shaft. Since I shut it down early that was the only damage. On the other hand, at Sebring I sat on the track at pit out for 10 minutes because of a failed gauge.

Do you remember what the revs were when the oil pressure dropped? What is your rev limiter set at? I have an engine for sale but as you know it's not Prepared legal.

Good luck dude.

Dumb noob question - since oil pressure is so important, why not run two pressure gauges, one mechanical and one electric?

If one shows zero, it's the gauge, if both show zero, its the motor.....

Sensor packages have a defined reliability just like every other part of a car. A $30 sender and a $30 gauge replaced every year is a hell of a lot cheaper then a new motor....

Dumb noob question - since oil pressure is so important, why not run two pressure gauges, one mechanical and one electric?

If one shows zero, it's the gauge, if both show zero, its the motor.....

Sensor packages have a defined reliability just like every other part of a car. A $30 sender and a $30 gauge replaced every year is a hell of a lot cheaper then a new motor....

That what i do.

Dumb noob question - since oil pressure is so important, why not run two pressure gauges, one mechanical and one electric?

If one shows zero, it's the gauge, if both show zero, its the motor.....


e36's have an OE oil pressure warning light, which when combined with an aftermarket gauge gives you the redundancy you seek.

In my expereince, a dead oil pressure sender will result in the analog gauge needle not "bumping-up" to its baseline reading when the car is powered-up. It rests/remains at sub-zero. This, and the lack of the OE pressure light coming on told me that I still had pressure.

e36's have an OE oil pressure warning light, which when combined with an aftermarket gauge gives you the redundancy you seek.

In my expereince, a dead oil pressure sender will result in the analog gauge needle not "bumping-up" to its baseline reading when the car is powered-up. It rests/remains at sub-zero. This, and the lack of the OE pressure light coming on told me that I still had pressure.



+1 Had this happen recently and experienced the exact same behavior from the gague. So I think that it is a reasonably good diagnostic step. Removing the oil filter cap and starting the engine will confirm whether to have oil pressure, but it makes a BIG mess.

+1 Had this happen recently and experienced the exact same behavior from the gague. So I think that it is a reasonably good diagnostic step. Removing the oil filter cap and starting the engine will confirm whether to have oil pressure, but it makes a BIG mess.

Or just disconnect the Vanos oil line and stick it in a bucket, it makes less of a mess and will tell you right away.

Or just disconnect the Vanos oil oil and stick it in a bucket, it makes less of a mess and will tell you right away.

Now you tell me :embarrasm

I find it odd that people are questioning your integrity at a time like this.

Take a look at post number 13 and stfu.

I didn't question your integrity.

Sunir,

Sorry about your car yar! I hope the repair bill is not to heavy.. (I blew a head gasket at Summit a few months ago..) It was nice meeting you..

Regards
Mo

Sunir, sorry to hear about your troubles...been there and done that several times. I find it odd that people are questioning your integrity at a time like this. If I had an issue with a car or driver I would bite my tongue about it if the car just blew up, anyway.

During my last race I heard a high pitched rattle with a complete loss of oil pressure, this happened above 7000rpm. I pulled off the track and shut her down...turns out it's a failed oil pump shaft. Since I shut it down early that was the only damage. On the other hand, at Sebring I sat on the track at pit out for 10 minutes because of a failed gauge.

Do you remember what the revs were when the oil pressure dropped? What is your rev limiter set at? I have an engine for sale but as you know it's not Prepared legal.

Good luck dude.

thanks for the well wishes man...the shift light is at 7200 rpms where I shift...the rev limiter is set for 7400 rpms but I just shift as soon as the shift light comes on...so I don't go to 7400...I don't recall the revs when the pressure went to zero...I recall looking at the warning light and the guage in the carousel after T6 and before T7 which is 3rd gear :dunno

thanks for the well wishes man...the shift light is at 7200 rpms where I shift...the rev limiter is set for 7400 rpms but I just shift as soon as the shift light comes on...so I don't go to 7400...I don't recall the revs when the pressure went to zero...I recall looking at the warning light and the guage in the carousel after T6 and before T7 which is 3rd gear :dunno
If the shift light comes on at 7200, you're at 7400 by the time you shift.