I'm going to be using a race seat (either a Cobra Suzuka or Imola II - haven't decided yet) with a VAC floor mount and a Speedware harness bar and I need to purchase a harness to use with it. This is for SCCA Solo use, and will be used on the street to drive to events (but not daily driving).

Bimmerworld sells a Sabelt 6-point harness that comes highly recommended. But there are a couple of options to choose from: bolt-in versus snap-in, and pull-up versus pull-down. Any suggestions on what will work best for me?

Does anybody have detailed pictures of their harness attachment points?

There is a lot of good conversation already on this forum about harness brands and personal preferences. I have had Sabelt harnesses in the past (rebranded as Sparco) and now have moved on to Schroth to get a 2" lap belt, so I am a bit biased in terms of brands of belts.

To answer your questions about installation:

1. If I were in your shoes, I would definitely go with clip in. It gives your more options for mounting locations (angles) and if you do plan on attempting to use your stock seatbelts to remain legal for street use, it is much easier to get the harness hardware out of the way for street use. I initially started with all bolt-in harness installations years ago and now have seen the light about clip-in.

2. Pull up or down is a personal preference for many people that I think is mostly dictated on body size, seat shell selection and where you have best muscles. You need to to be able to *really* yank down on those belt straps as those straps are number 1 priority of the harness. If you are looking at Cobra seats, they are going to be a little higher up on the side hip bolsters vs other seats (i.e. Corbeau and Sparco), making it a bit more difficult to be able to reach around and tighten the belt straps for pull-down option. I have had both pull-up and pull-down belts on both Sparco and Cobra seats. I am a med size guy (i.e. no belly to hang over the belt) and find it much easier with my size in my Cobra seat to pull the belts in towards me than to reach around and pull them away from me. I have more leverage/strength this way than I did with pull-down belts.

3. Mounting points in E36 chassis I think have also been discussed pretty well so I won't go into that unless you have specific questions. I am out of town until Wednesday, but if you need any specific pix, let me know and I can take pictures of either of the track cars when I get back into town. Neither of them have interiors anymore, so the pictures should be pretty clear of mounting points.

Hope that helps,
ben

Yep, I searched initially but was still unclear on harness mounting. The threads that I found via search kind of generated more questions as it was obvious how many ways (both correct and incorrect) to mount a harness.

For a clip-in harness, I'll need to mount four eye bolts (two for the subs, two for the laps), correct? Do I need specialized hardware for this, or can I make a trip to the hardware store? Apologies if this has been covered before (I imagine it has; I just couldn't find it).

mcmaster.com is all you need, I picked up some eyebolts that were the appropriate ID for the clip, you have a million flavors to choose from, but get the heaviest-rated shoulder Eyebolt possible. BUT, I remember my sparco belts coming with the hardware already, then I fabbed backing plates...

If the OEM doesn't give you directions, then read this...

BMWCCA rules (http://www.bmwccaclubracing.com/static/2006Series/Rules/2006BMWCRrules060601.pdf) for angles, location, etc...

Thanks (both of you) for the good info. I wonder how people figured this stuff out in the olden days, before internet forums.

I went ahead and called up HMS and said, "Give me what I need" and it should be on its way tomorrow. I'm sure I'll pop back in this thread before I start drilling.

Glad to hear you got it worked out. HMS is going to send you Schroth hardware which is exactly what I have used in my last installations and what I recommend for others. I find their backing plates easy to work with. All of their hardware is at least 8.8 or 10.8 strength which is what you need for this project.

Just make sure you get four eyelet bolts, four wavy (locking) washers, four large 5/16" ID fender washers and four backing plate/nuts for each seat installed. The stack order from top to bottom should be eyelet bolt, wavy washer, fender washer, car chassis sheet metal and then backing plate/nut.

By the way, I found purchasing a cheap "uni-bit" type drill bit greatly speeds up installation for this project. I found mine at costco, but just about everyone sells knock-off step-style drill bits these days. Just watch the sub strap holes on the driver's side. There are fuel lines right where you want to drill.

And the transmission tunnel holes can be a bitch to align up the bolt and the backing plate/washer unless you have help. You don't need to drop the exhaust, just bend that aluminum foil heat shield away and use a flashlight to get up there. It helps to have a lovely assistant to start threading the bolt from up above while you hold the backing plate/nut in place from under the car. The first one may take hours, the second one will take minutes.

good luck.

Oh and BTW, don't drive on the street using your 6 point harness. Not because it's illegal, but because it's unsafe.

Bro

Oh and BTW, don't drive on the street using your 6 point harness. Not because it's illegal, but because it's unsafe.

Bro

Elighten us please. Why is that? Unless of course ha has no roll over protection, in which case it's unsafe ANYWHERE.

? 1+

Question: How are these little 3/4" long eye bolts that HMS supplied supposed to go through the floor and into the backing plate for the sub straps? By my estimate you'd need a good 2" (more, actually) of thread to reach.

edit: It looks like there's interior carpet, then some plastic piece, then nothing for an inch or so, then the underbody.

Cut an X in the carpet so you can get the eye bolt through, then cut away a section of the plastic (careful, at least one side has wires under it if memory serves) then bolt through the sheet metal with a backing plate (HMS supplies good ones).

Cut an X in the carpet so you can get the eye bolt through, then cut away a section of the plastic (careful, at least one side has wires under it if memory serves) then bolt through the sheet metal with a backing plate (HMS supplies good ones).
My backing plate is up against the underbody coating, right?

I managed to get one bolt threaded through, but the eye bolt is so deep in the floor that I can't clip into or out of it. It's not a big problem as I can leave the sub straps clipped in, but I don't want to make a huge hole in the carpet/plastic.

Man, this stuff is a pain! :mad

Yes,

You want to get down to metal on metal. You never want to mount harness or a rollbar/cage to anything else but bare metal. That means cutting back all the carpet and padding, and scraping away some of the sound deadening tar material before you mount the harnesses. This is a hassle if you plan to keep the interior in your car, but is possible, so don't cheat on this step. You can make an X in the carpet like Jesse said and then dissect your way down to do it right. The carpet will lay itself down when you are done and if you are careful, you can fully reverse the installation without people noticing from the inside of the car.

I see many people at the track half-ass their safety harness installations, which boggles my mind. I tell everyone to take the extra time to do this job right the first time, it might actually be a life or death choice.

ben

edit: I agree, this stuff is a major pain! But the rewards are worth it.

I think 6pt belts are overkill for Autocross (I'm assuming that's what you mean by "SCCA Solo").

4pt clip-ins (e.g. Schroth Quick Fit) should be the best of all worlds -- easy install/removal plus you can get the lap belts nice and tight to keep you in the seat.

I think 6pt belts are overkill for Autocross
Before I've even turned a wheel with my new setup, I've come to the conclusion that you're right. In fact, my seat is snug enough that I don't move around (laterally) at all. Honestly, the stock seatbelt would probably do just fine.

If you are trying to just trying to hold your butt in place, G-lock (or generic Walmart equivalent from the infant childseat section) with your stock belt and a cut square of that waffle-weave shelf liner between the seat and your behind is all good. The Scroth clip-ins are amazing, but a bit more pricey.

Hey guys...

We're installing a 5pt sparco harness on a M Coupe with Recaro Pole Positions on VAC floor mount adaptors. I would like to know if we can use the Sparco Harness Bolt On kit on the the floor mount adaptors for the lap belts only?

The M Coupe already has a rear roll bar.