Installing a set of coilovers, and going to an M3 strut-mount swaybar setup from my non-M. I can get a used set of M3 links for $25, a new set for ~$70, or adjustable ones for ~$100.

Is there much advantage to being able to shorten them and adjust preload for the change in ride geometry? Anybody have a good link on this stuff?

Any time you have different ride heights from side to side, as in corner balancing, you will get preload on a sway bar with non-adjustable end links. This will affect alignment too.

Jay

I'd say yes. I helped install TC-kline coilovers on a buddies E46 m3 about a week ago, we couldn't get the front to sit level and found it was becuase the sway bar had about 1/2" worth of preload on it. In the extreme situation like on my e30 the sway bar ended up like this when the suspension was loaded
http://www.r3vlimited.com/gallery/files/7/4/5/1/PICT0002.JPG
But I may of welded the tabs on too high to the strut housings. Needless to say I'm currently running my own custom made links that are about 2 inches longer then stock.

oh man, check out the deformation in that rubber swaybar bushing!

oh man, check out the deformation in that rubber swaybar bushing!

Ouch... seems a bit extreme tho, I'd blame a mounting point, I think?

Any time you have different ride heights from side to side, as in corner balancing, you will get preload on a sway bar with non-adjustable end links. This will affect alignment too.

Jay

Just getting more into this, so bear with me... corner balancing is moving weight around to even everything out, right? If I'm JUST installing coilovers and setting the two sides the same, there won't be any "twist" resulting from a difference in ride height. My concern is the different angle of the bar from changing the height of the chassis in relation to the strut mount point, albeit the same from side to side.

What would be the problem with a slight preload on the bar? It might seem stiffer than it normally would, since it's already loaded up a little?

As a caveat, I'm running Eibach sways with their poly bushings, fwiw.

It's effectively impossible to set the ride height for zero pre-load. Moreover, without an adjustable link, you have no way to really check. Trust us, driving a pre-loaded car is not pleasant. It can very badly screw with your handling.

It's effectively impossible to set the ride height for zero pre-load. Moreover, without an adjustable link, you have no way to really check. Trust us, driving a pre-loaded car is not pleasant. It can very badly screw with your handling.

Hmm... so it's that serious, huh? Arrite... guess I'll leave the bars connected to the control arms for this weekend's even, and get some adjustable links and run the bars to the struts later.

Any good websites that show how to check for preload and properly adjust an endlink?

Should a car be corner balanced w/ the sway bars disconnected? I guess that makes sense

Should a car be corner balanced w/ the sway bars disconnected? I guess that makes sense
Makes sense, then you can later reattach them and adjust to zero preload once you've figured out the different heights for each corner. :dunno

A car MUST be corner balanced with the sways disconnected. Otherwise, you're completely wasting your time.

gotcha.

There is a DIY floating around w/ some DIY endlinks using some misc hardware and spherical bearing ends from a source off the net. That might be a good way to go

gotcha.

There is a DIY floating around w/ some DIY endlinks using some misc hardware and spherical bearing ends from a source off the net. That might be a good way to go

It is on the UUC website under Tech Tips -> Sway Bar Links

gotcha.

There is a DIY floating around w/ some DIY endlinks using some misc hardware and spherical bearing ends from a source off the net. That might be a good way to go
You end up spending just as much. Also, you end up with nice, clunky spherical bearing rod ends.

A car MUST be corner balanced with the sways disconnected. Otherwise, you're completely wasting your time.

And, aligned too.

Jay

^^yeh, i think youre right about them being noisy, but i just ordered the parts. it was about $90 total shipped for parts for two endlinks. the cheapest i could find online for a good adjustable was $99 for ONE endlink.

Only one endlink is needed, but i figured w/ one endlink w/ spherical bearing and one stock.. the stock one is gonna take some punishment and soon die. So two will be good.

^^yeh, i think youre right about them being noisy, but i just ordered the parts. it was about $90 total shipped for parts for two endlinks. the cheapest i could find online for a good adjustable was $99 for ONE endlink.

Only one endlink is needed, but i figured w/ one endlink w/ spherical bearing and one stock.. the stock one is gonna take some punishment and soon die. So two will be good.
$99 for the pair of Ground Controls from mpact... :dunno

http://www.mpactmotorsports.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=29&products_id=35

hot damn, i swear those didnt exist before. oh well, they actually look identical to the UUC howto ones. but w/ anodized center rods :)

^thats good deal
I need to order a pair

......

tell me more about the nylon ends :) quiet? durable?

Can you get em to CA by Thursday? :)

$99 for the pair of Ground Controls from mpact... :dunno

http://www.mpactmotorsports.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=29&products_id=35
those look just like the bimmerworld ones. I wonder if they are the same.

tell me more about the nylon ends :) quiet? durable?

+1 let me know, and if we can see some pics that would be even better

those look just like the bimmerworld ones. I wonder if they are the same.
Seeing as both Bimmerworld and MPact are dealers for Ground Control stuff, I'd say the answer is "Yes".

:)

Jim

I cancelled my parts orders and ordered a set from rs4pro3 (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/member.php?u=14382). I'll report how they turn out :)

btw, i got em in a few weeks ago. They look fine and should do a good job. the rubber boots are bike inner tube zip tied on but its a free option and should work fine :P

They are a little longer than i'd like though. fully compressed theyre about 10.25" long whereas the stock ones are about 9.5" This is just about right w/ the car lowered, but i'd still like a little more wiggle room i guess.

the spherical ends looks solid and are tight and smooth and silent so far.

all in all, a good deal.

I'm glad you are happy with them, I haven't found any nice sealed rod ends yet, so those inner tubes work well enough:D

Sorry to bring this thread back to life...but I'm in the market for these soon.

couldn't you cut a stock link in half, trim some length maybe an inch or so off of each side, thread the ends, and use a threaded shift rod and some jam nuts? Or is the material too hard?

You would only need to make 1 if the car wasn't lowered too much.

That looks like what TMS has done to theirs.

couldn't you cut a stock link in half, trim some length maybe an inch or so off of each side, thread the ends, and use a threaded shift rod and some jam nuts? Or is the material too hard?

Sure, you could. I wouldn't consider it an optimal solution though. I would be concerned about stress risers where the threads end. Unless the stock endlinks are seriously overbuilt, I would expect issues with bending/breaking at those stress risers. Further, once we are talking race cars, I just prefer using a mil-spec spherical bearing.

Sure, you could. I wouldn't consider it an optimal solution though. I would be considered about stress risers where the threads end. Unless the stock endlinks are seriously overbuilt, I would expect issues with bending/breaking at those stress risers. Further, once we are talking race cars, I just prefer using a mil-spec spherical bearing.
It's a lousy idea for a race car, but the spherical bearing endlinks suck for street cars.

I wonder how TMS deals with the stress risers? I swear it looks like they use stock links that are modified. I'll email them.

I'm currently running the stock Non M endlinks that attach to the control arms. I have TCK DA's so they can take the M3 endlinks, however TCK tells me that the stock ones work better with their setup? suggestions?

I'm currently running the stock Non M endlinks that attach to the control arms. I have TCK DA's so they can take the M3 endlinks, however TCK tells me that the stock ones work better with their setup? suggestions?

It depends on how much spring rate you are running and how much additional spring rate you need from your bar. Attaching to the control arm will simply increase the effective spring rate of the anti-roll bar (i.e. make it stiffer). If you don't need the bar to be stiffer, there's no point in attaching it to the strut.

It depends on how much spring rate you are running and how much additional spring rate you need from your bar. Attaching to the strut will simply increase the effective spring rate of the anti-roll bar (i.e. make it stiffer). If you don't need the bar to be stiffer, there's no point in attaching it to the strut.

Fixed.

It depends on how much spring rate you are running and how much additional spring rate you need from your bar. Attaching to the control arm will simply increase the effective spring rate of the anti-roll bar (i.e. make it stiffer). If you don't need the bar to be stiffer, there's no point in attaching it to the strut.

Running 500/550 (auto-x), not sure whether it needs to be stiffer or not. the only problems I'm experiencing is initial turn in is slow/understeer, and once it takes a set its perfect.

Fixed.

Thanks!

It's a lousy idea for a race car, but the spherical bearing endlinks suck for street cars.

Do you say this because of potential NVH or due to the limited anglular movement between the stud and the rod compared to a ball joint?

Mine have spherical bearing endlinks and theyre actually not noisey at all. No noticable difference compared to stock. But i can't really say if i'm being affected by less than ideal movement at the joint or not.

Do you say this because of potential NVH or due to the limited anglular movement between the stud and the rod compared to a ball joint?

Mine have spherical bearing endlinks and theyre actually not noisey at all. No noticable difference compared to stock. But i can't really say if i'm being affected by less than ideal movement at the joint or not.
Noise. They're usually quiet when new, but get noisy over time.

gotcha.

I saw an ad for a company who makes spiffy ball joint endlinks of all types in the back of the last GRM magazine. i wonder how their prices are.

I saw an ad for a company who makes spiffy ball joint endlinks of all types in the back of the last GRM magazine. i wonder how their prices are.

THK/Powergrid? They do look pretty nice, and supposedly their ball joints have more articulation and better dust seals than heim joints. They claim to be an OEM for several car makes.

A bit pricey though, around $160 (I think that's each, not for a pair).
www.powergridinc.com

is it worth it to convert non-m cars to m suspention geometry(strut mounted sways)? Does it react significantly different? I've always wanted to do this if i got coilovers, but recently have been thinking otherwise.

is it worth it to convert non-m cars to m suspention geometry(strut mounted sways)? Does it react significantly different? I've always wanted to do this if i got coilovers, but recently have been thinking otherwise.
I would like to know this also.:)

is it worth it to convert non-m cars to m suspention geometry(strut mounted sways)? Does it react significantly different? I've always wanted to do this if i got coilovers, but recently have been thinking otherwise.

Already answered above:

It depends on how much spring rate you are running and how much additional spring rate you need from your bar. Attaching to the strut will simply increase the effective spring rate of the anti-roll bar (i.e. make it stiffer). If you don't need the bar to be stiffer, there's no point in attaching it to the strut.

FWIW, we currently run the "old" geometry on our race car. It's not a matter of one making you faster than the other, but rather of one allowing you to run a smaller, lighter bar with more effective spring rate. In our case, the bar we had on the car was more spring rate than we wanted when attached to the strut, so we moved the attachment point to the control arms.

is it worth it to convert non-m cars to m suspention geometry(strut mounted sways)? Does it react significantly different? I've always wanted to do this if i got coilovers, but recently have been thinking otherwise.

If you get coilovers, get the M3 versions with the strut mounts for the sways. Prob won't cost any more and you have the option if you want it later. Your prob gonna want to use the M3 strut bearings swaped for increased camber anyway.

If you have the sport pack 3 series you have a 25.5mm front bar connected to your control arms. If after the coilover install you think you no longer have enough front bar you could just move the links ($60 for a new pair of OE strut type - or 120 for GC adjustables) to the strut and increase the sping rate of the stock bar.

Kinda a like a low cost sway bar upgrade if you need it.

Anybody know if there's an adjustable end link that mounts to the control arm?

Anybody know if there's an adjustable end link that mounts to the control arm?

It's not too hard to build your own.