Part 1:
Ok Guys, this could be a long thread as the journey just begins...sorry for being so long.

I took my '03 M3 in to a local BMW dealership for an oil change and modest warranty service a few days ago and they completed the work, called me back and said to come and pick it up. The car had been worked on, taken for a 2 mile test drive, and signed off by the first technician. I missed the call, so I called my SA around 4:00 and was told my car had just been in an accident. Obviously shocked, I went down to the dealership with a work colleague.

Once my SA greeted me with the un-calming, "are you the M3 guy?", I was met by the Shop Foreman who told me that they have a "random testing procedure" that my car had been "randomly selected for a pre-determined route" for customer satisfaction purposes.

I enquired who was driving and how old they were, but wasn't shocked when I was told a 21 year old had been driving.

After seven miles of driving, apparently a car pulled out in front of him and he couldn't avoid it, causing him to lose control and spin out, 180'ing the car into the curb at close to 50 mph (estimated by the police who measured skid marks, etc). It was in a 30 mph zone, BTW. He was about 3 miles from the dealership at that point, so we can assume a 10 mile "loop"

Now the dealership is saying they will fix the car to it's original specs, but they haven't even put it on an alignment rack to measure the sub-frame/unibody. Their parts cost, without labor, paint, or the Schnitzer nose and HID fogs comes to over $6000.

The GM came out and said he was absolutely adamant that there will be no deduction against the resale value of the car as it will be back to factory specs, but you need to know it was in mint condition, never even dinged, and had a clean carfax when I brought it in.

I told them to not perform any work until I could evaluate my options (this was on Wednesday, crash on Tuesday), but by Friday (yesterday!) I received a letter from their attorney stating I had to let them do the work or remove the car from the lot within 5 days, unless I be charged a daily "storage fee".

I hired an attorney, but what would you guys do? I really don't want the car back with a crash on it as I wouldn't have bought it that way in the first place. Plus, I know the value will be affected, not to mention and boogymen that might come out due to hit down the road, when teh car's out of warranty. It hit rear driver side rim first, completely buckled the suspension and wheel, then bounced to the front blowing the side bags and taking the front wheel/suspension out, then blew the front bumper cover off.

That's it for now, bummed out.

I know I have read a story almost exactly like this. I think it was in California. Hopefully someone can find the thread for you. I believe that one ended with the car's owner getting an attorney and being paid for the car, not having it fixed even though the shop wanted to fix it.

cross posted FTL

good luck with everything BTW

dude, why would you let them drive it?

EDIT: i read the post wrong

Good that you have an attorney. I would fight for them to buy the car back. It's not a likely scenario, but it could happen.

On the bright side, since it's not being reported to any insurance company, it is highly unlikely that it will show up on Carfax. Unfortunately to an astute eye (which Used Car Sales Managers typically are) they may be able to detect any bodywork/painting/parts replacement that happened to your vehicle. That would give any dealership ammo on under-appraising your car if you ever traded it. Even as a Car Salesperson back in the day, we were taught how to inspect cars for new body panels, paintwork, etc etc that would indicate a cars been in a wreck. Any money made on under-appraising your trade is actually a credit towards the salespersons commission, so they really try to talk down your trade as much as they can. They can simply say "well I see your front [whatever it is] has been replaced and painted...obviously it is not in Mint condition anymore... we can't offer you full market value for it when we can go to auction and buy the same car un-wrecked for [whatever amount]." Totally destroys your negotiating power if you ever wanted to trade it in. Also, most car affecianados who would pay top dollar for your car would probably also know how to pay attention to small details like that, and it might cost you top dollar on the private market too.

I would make the case that, even though they say they can put it back to factory spec, the damage has been done and it can no longer be sold/considered a mint condition car and that it's resale value has been permanently tattered.

EDIT: One other note; it would actually be EXTREMELY easy for anyone to to tell if your car has been wrecked. If they have to replace any panels (such as a front fender if it's dented), the sticker that goes on the top of the fender just inside the engine bay will no longer have the VIN on it - it will just have a roundel and say "DOT" on it. Those VIN stickers can only come from the factory on the original body panel. It's actually a DOT Fed Reg that replaced panels have the DOT certified sticker instead of the original VIN sticker. DEAD give-away that it has been replaced. One of the first things I looked for when I was doing a trade appraisal on a customers car. They can say "oh no, it's never been wrecked bla bla bla" but as soon as you show them that sticker there face totally changes expression. I've even had customers that didn't know that the fender had been replaced, and when I showed them one fender that said the VIN, and one that just said "DOT", they actually were pissed at whomever sold THEM the car! I digress, but it IS a dead giveaway. Those VIN stickers go on every body panel of the car BTW - trunk, doors, hood, rear quarterpanels, etc etc.

Good luck. :thumbup:

Where is the car at now? If it's at BMW of Seattle, I'll take a look at it on my lunch break today. PM me.

Airbags generally mean total loss.

For now I'll refrain from naming names ( I want them to do the right thing) and if you've been looking, this did happen to another guy at Savage BMW sometime back (amazing how fast and far that one went).
Plus, I want to speak with my attorney before I say too much. As far as replacement panels go, there is no real body damage, as it hit a low curb and folded the suspension at around 50mph. It's the frame damage I'm concerned about (the bumper and mods will have to be replaced too). The police have a case number on it, so I've heard Carfax will be notified via their system, if not by the insurance company.

More to come...

Oh my god!!! ~One week ago I was driving thru Bellevue with my friend that works at Park Place and we saw a silver E46 M3 crashed nose-first into the curb with all the airbags blown, front bumper ripped off, and the tech standing outside of it holding his head. My friend was just floored and called his manager at work and had a laugh about how fired that guy was going to be. I think it was 116th...We were headed to the mall from Park Place.

I doubt it was your car since it sounds like you go to BMW of Seattle but it sounds just like your story. Although if it was what are the chances the owner of that car would have been a PNW BFC member! Ive never had any doubt that the techs just beat on the cars so Im sure it happens somewhat often.

If youre going to let them fix it take it to Queen City Auto Rebuild (theyll do a better job) and you will have to fight for "Diminished Value"...which is usually 10% of the cars value and your insurance company will be able to help you with that. Just went through resolving substantial bodywork on a 330xi.

Sorry to hear about your car. You did the right thing by hiring your own attorney. No way in hell I would take the car back. Once a car had been fixed,painted you can always tell if you know what to look for. If you need some advice, talk to Jeff Butler at
Haury's Lake City Collision. He's the local BMW board member, owner and is very knowledgable about BMW repairs in addition to the law since he dealt with it everyday.

Good luck!

what BMW did this?
i read this last nite and i was shocked.
you better get non wrecked retail for it

any update?

If I were in your situation. and they're confident that it won't hurt the resale value, I'd make sure they replace my car with a 2006 M3 and trade them my trashed 2003 straight across. Simply because they lied to you, there's no "random selection" and if there truely is, it's not done by a 21 year old. Who was the 21 year old that trashed your car by the way?

Thats such BS.

If you want me to give my friend a call, he's a GM and I could see what your real options are.

If I were in your situation. and they're confident that it won't hurt the resale value, I'd make sure they replace my car with a 2006 M3 and trade them my trashed 2003 straight across. Simply because they lied to you, there's no "random selection" and if there truely is, it's not done by a 21 year old. Who was the 21 year old that trashed your car by the way?

Thats such BS.

If you want me to give my friend a call, he's a GM and I could see what your real options are.
I agree. If they do a "Random Selection", it's going to be a Shop Foreman, Senior Tech, or the actual Service Manager doing it. It's not going to be some kid fresh outta DTI.

After I was a Finance Manager at HUMMER, I was a Service Advisor for a while also. I don't know about BMW, but we didn't have time for Random Checks. :dunno I was trying to get 13 billed hours into 8 real hours! :D

FYI...it WAS the accident you saw on 116th about a week ago and I have contacted Jeff Butler at Haury's. He is a great guy and extremely well versed on BMW's. He also owns an M3, so I feel confident he can assess the car best.

More to come...

Any updates?:stickoutt

The car is being repaired this week with an initial estimate of $15,500 (remember the dealerships estimate was approx $6,000) in damage. The dealership is providing most of the parts from their inventory, plus covering the cost for labor/aftermarket pieces/paint, etc. Additionally, they are covering my rental expenses while the fix takes place. We still disagree over the diminished value issue (me something - them nothing), but we'll address that after the car is done.
There were some deviations in the front and rear sub-frame when measured, but this may be due to the mangled suspension components "pulling" on the unibody. When these are replaced we will remeasure the car and see if additional work is required to bring it back to the condition it was prior to the accident.
They did make an offer to buy my car, but it was not a reasonable offer, plus they offered to try and get me into an '04 with less miles (but only if I paid the difference in the book). A bad idea, especially as it had been owned by a smoker and was covered in cigarette ash, had been keyed on two body panels, the wheels had been curbed, and the nose had been run into a curb (not to mention no SMG, PDC, alum trim, or mods).
Hopefully this story will turn out ok, but for now things are moving slowly.
More to come...

Go find a lawyer with some balls and get a new M3.

If I were you, I would have them buy the car back at fair market value due to:

1. The car was wrecked, no matter how well the job is done afterward...you'll have trouble selling it for a fair market value to the next ownner.
2. It may drives fine now but problems will creep up later.
3. I would not want to keep paying car payments on a car that was wrecked by someone else...do you?

Go find a lawyer with some balls and get a new M3.

+1 :evil2

Go find a lawyer with some balls and get a new M3.

please do that is bullshit... Good choice on Jeff Butler though

Have you contacted BMW Corporate on this by any chance?

Also if your lawyer isn't getting any publicity on this, you need to find a new one. THE LAST THING THIS DEALERSHIP WANTS IS FOR ANYONE TO LOSE FAITH IN THEM. They make money selling cars, but they make a TON of money fixing them too. Their service department needs to remain reputable.

Unless you're getting an 06 M3 + your mods added to it and your balance transferred over to it, you're getting screwed.

Someone wrecked your car that shouldn't have even been sitting in it, then they lied to you, then they tried to screw you and are screwing you now by you letting them fix it.

You will get about 60% of the cars bluebook value with that police report on the cars record.

This is coming from someone who's parents and family owned and managed new car lots.

There are many more components to the story that I won't go into just yet. One thing I am aware of is that there is no legal presumption that just because they have repaired my car and covered any rental car expenses we are even. I have not waived any legal rights by allowing them to do this. They have no legal compulsion to purchase my car, and if they did, if would be very difficult to settle on price, considering I could not purchase my own car back, let alone mods, tax, etc. for what they were wiling to offer me.

What they are complelled to do is put me back into the same position I was in prior to them crashing my car (repairs, reimbursement of expenses, DV), plus, perhaps treble damages for the first $10,000 should I pursue a Consumer Protection Act violation (see earlier this thread). These can come all at once or one at a time.

My duty is to mitigate my loss as a consumer. In other words, I cannot simply sit on the fence with a rental car for 6 months, waiting for them to make me my perfect offer, while racking up expenses...that shows bad faith.

As the car is now in the best possible hands for repair and the dealership is paying the bill, plus has put me in a car, the process is moving, but we're not anywhere near the end just yet. :nono

There are many more components to the story that I won't go into just yet. One thing I am aware of is that there is no legal presumption that just because they have repaired my car and covered any rental car expenses we are even. I have not waived any legal rights by allowing them to do this. They have no legal compulsion to purchase my car, and if they did, if would be very difficult to settle on price, considering I could not purchase my own car back, let alone mods, tax, etc. for what they were wiling to offer me.

What they are complelled to do is put me back into the same position I was in prior to them crashing my car (repairs, reimbursement of expenses, DV), plus, perhaps treble damages for the first $10,000 should I pursue a Consumer Protection Act violation (see earlier this thread). These can come all at once or one at a time.

My duty is to mitigate my loss as a consumer. In other words, I cannot simply sit on the fence with a rental car for 6 months, waiting for them to make me my perfect offer, while racking up expenses...that shows bad faith.

As the car is now in the best possible hands for repair and the dealership is paying the bill, plus has put me in a car, the process is moving, but we're not anywhere near the end just yet. :nono
Good for you. Diminished value is becoming more and more prevalent in lawsuits in recent times. I would pursue it adamantly.

Yes, I contacted BMW NA. They said they would file this complaint under my VIN # and mark it for "Executive Review". That was on day 2; I haven't heard from them yet.

Yes, I contacted BMW NA. They said they would file this complaint under my VIN # and mark it for "Executive Review". That was on day 2; I haven't heard from them yet.

updates?

This whole situation is :censored: I cannot believe that the dealership would allow something like this to occur in the first place. I really hope that you get a new ride out of this I would not be happy driving a car that someone else wrecked. Good Luck.

yea that really is bullshit

Which dealership is this at?

If it is a Corporate owned place, try and get a hold of the regional manager and tell him about the situation. The GM won't like it when the corporate guys goes into his store and start asking questions.

This whole situation is :censored: I cannot believe that the dealership would allow something like this to occur in the first place. I really hope that you get a new ride out of this I would not be happy driving a car that someone else wrecked. Good Luck.
I don't think any dealership would 'allow' for something like this to happen. ;)

It is surely F***ed up though.

Which dealership is this at?

If it is a Corporate owned place, try and get a hold of the regional manager and tell him about the situation. The GM won't like it when the corporate guys goes into his store and start asking questions.
BMW of Bellevue.

It's owned by Autonation.

I think he's already taken it to that level; he is being represented legally.

Ok I will say this. If this is the car that I am thinking of (airbags went off, two wheels destroyed etc.) Then I know the driver of the car at that time personally and better than most. He was the only person that would take cars out on test drives after and before work was done to first diagnose the problem and then after to verify that the problem was no longer persistant. This was his job because he is good at it. I say was because to the best of my knowledge he no longer does this due to this situation. From what I was told this was in no way shape or form his fault in addition to that it was 2 cars that were dodged the first was successfull and the second was not, resulting in the damage to the m3. the second car fled the scene and was not caught, but a witness stayed to help inform the police. My understanding of how that dealer works is that it wasn't a random check but that check happens with every car to verify that the car shouldn't need to come back. I wont name names or get into alot of detail that could potentially get him or anyone else in trouble that I just thought I would clear up a couple things that I found while skimming this thread.

Tom

PS NewbieM3Shopper: if it makes you feel any better about the situation he feels horrible about what happened to your car and does not speed or abuse anyones cars the rate of speed he was going was due to dodging the first car. (from my understanding of what he told me as I was not there)
Well that makes me feel a lot better about taking my car there. :thumbup: I've always liked that dealership, and I use their parts department weekly, so I would hate to not feel confident about the service department.

Thank you for introducing new information. It really gives new light to the big picture involved.

wow, that's really messed up. i hope they take care of it for you - by agreeing that the car's resale value has undoubtedly lowered because of the accident.

+1 for Jeff Butler. He seems very knowledgeable about collision repairs and the laws around those. In fact, I'm taking my car to him tomorrow morning for some service.

Dude was doing 50 in a 30. Thats nearing twice the speeding limit.

If he wasn't at fault in any way shape or form, he would still be working there.

It's not only that, but the dealership is trying to shaft him.

damn


Sorry to here this. Tracking thread.

Dude was doing 50 in a 30. Thats nearing twice the speeding limit.

I was thinking the same. The excuse was "the rate of speed he was going [50 in a 30] was due to dodging the first car".

Why would one increase speed in an attempt to avoid an obstacle? Foot slipped off the brake? Emergency maneuver cause the accelerator to be inadvertently depressed?

Damn, now I owe kyle money. Apparently M3's AREN'T dumbass proof.

Sorry for the lack of updates...I've posted this thread on the BIG board, too, so it's hard to keep them all up to date, but I'm sorry to not have kept the locals in the loop.

Basically, I've got the car back, repaired to the tune of $16,500 which the dealer paid. They also covered my car rental and loaner cars.

They did try and sell me another car, an '04 M3 which was badly abused (smoke ash all over, curbed all around, keyed on multiple body panels...plus no SMG, alum trim, etc...not to mention the mods...and all at a higher price! Yikes I wouldn't have traded straight across!).

They also offered to buy my car at less than I owe on it. I could definitely never replace it for what they were offering me.

So, now I've had a Diminished Value report done, which will be ready for pick-up this week. Prelim estimates are over $10K. I will submit this report, plus bills for additional expenses, and see what their reaction is. If it's good, we're done. If it's unreasonable, we go to court...simple.

My guess is it will be the latter, but I hold out hope they will seek out responsible legal advice and think of how bad this might get. Truly, taking a moment to acknowledge that an M3 that has been in an accident totaling over $16K with multiple airbags deployed will NOT sell for equal the amount as one that has never been wrecked WILL serve their long term goals much better than trying to defend a position that the car has no decrease in it's value.

Sorry for the lack of updates...I've posted this thread on the BIG board, too, so it's hard to keep them all up to date, but I'm sorry to not have kept the locals in the loop.

Basically, I've got the car back, repaired to the tune of $16,500 which the dealer paid. They also covered my car rental and loaner cars.

They did try and sell me another car, an '04 M3 which was badly abused (smoke ash all over, curbed all around, keyed on multiple body panels...plus no SMG, alum trim, etc...not to mention the mods...and all at a higher price! Yikes I wouldn't have traded straight across!).

They also offered to buy my car at less than I owe on it. I could definitely never replace it for what they were offering me.

So, now I've had a Diminished Value report done, which will be ready for pick-up this week. Prelim estimates are over $10K. I will submit this report, plus bills for additional expenses, and see what their reaction is. If it's good, we're done. If it's unreasonable, we go to court...simple.

My guess is it will be the latter, but I hold out hope they will seek out responsible legal advice and think of how bad this might get. Truly, taking a moment to acknowledge that an M3 that has been in an accident totaling over $16K with multiple airbags deployed will NOT sell for equal the amount as one that has never been wrecked WILL serve their long term goals much better than trying to defend a position that the car has no decrease in it's value.
Considering that they have umbrella insurance policies to handle issues like this, I hope they settle with you very quickly.

I hope your 3er feels the same as it did before too. :thumbup:

Don't forget about the continued negative publicity if they try to fight this. I was there buying some parts for my car the other day and saw a 645i with a badly bent up rear suspension sitting behind their repair shop.

I asked the sales guy if that was their tech's car but I don't think he heard me.

That 645 has been there (if it's the same one) for weeks; since I towed my car off the lot!

THis same exact thing happened in the AUDI world forums, RS6, Seattle dealer, amazingly close to the same details.
Yes, I used to own an AUDI, still a german car. Love German cars.

THis same exact thing happened in the AUDI world forums, RS6, Seattle dealer, amazingly close to the same details.
Yes, I used to own an AUDI, still a german car. Love German cars.


do you have a link to that thread?

Ooh, I want to keep track of this.

I know this thread is nine months old, but I'm curious to know what ever happened in this case? Anybody have any insight?

Why don't you go to another BMW dealer and tell them that your car was crashed and repaired to specs and you want to trade in. And see what they tell you. Better yet take one of there loaner car and wreck it and see if you don't buy it. Love BMW but not the all the folks are die hard. I strongly think you should have called it quits and let them find a replica of the same car, color,etc etc. You did not crash the car, and if you were Trump and it was maybach I think? who would be stuck with the car?:confused

Go find a lawyer with some balls and get a new M3.

Agreed. You should have been able to get a new M3 out of this given the negligence of the dealership. Bad publicity is not something a local delarship wants. Go to the press, make them give you a new car in order to go away and be done with it. Anything less is unacceptable. Your car is basically a salvage title car. I'm surprised your insurance company hasn't stepped in and stated as much.