HOLY FU@#$^IN SHIT!!!! :eyecrazy
that is all.














J/K.

So, yesterday, I got the BOV flange welded on, recieved the silicone intercooler couplings, and finished the plumbing for the BOV & boost controller.
Drove it around, ran like poop under boost...found out the 'ignition retard under boost' #'s were way off. Fixed that & the car moves like a bat out of hell and screams like...well...really loud (both the turbo high-pitch & 3" exhaust) :D

this is how it kinda went for a regular launch:
1st gear, gone in no time.
2nd gear, rpms peg'd @ 6k rpms because the dam clutch is slipping through the whole gear until around 50mph.
3rd gear, same thing

I tried 4th & 5th gear on the freeway, and right when the turbo spools @ around 3,300rpms, clutch slips. If i'm cruising on the freeway above 3,300rpms & I get close to half throttle (still using the 318i throttle body), the clutch starts to slip again.




The CRAZY thing is, the engine is only boosting to 7psi :eek: (from around 3,600 to 7k) because I had the boost controller turned all the way down for now.
So, the centerforce dual friction clutch didn't seem to come close to holding up the power. I hope it's not the pressure plate, so I'm going to switch to a pucked clutch & see how that goes first.

So, finally, after +3 years, it's freakin boosting!
pic of clusterfu#$d-looking enginebay:

Congrats:buttrock Deff switch to a puck type clutch, Clutchnet has a good selection for our engines and you can use it with the centerforce PP. NGK BP7ES should be a cold enough plug upto 10psi gapped at .028
SDS engine management?

Thanks!
yeah, i hear ya on the clutch. How is the street-driveability of that solid 3-puck that you have? would you recommend a 4-puck instead? sprung or solid?

www.sdsefi.com
I guess it's kind of like a megasquirt kit, but you use a controller box to change all the parameters instead of a labtop. I love it, because it's so easy to use & you can tune it while you drive.

Thanks!
yeah, i hear ya on the clutch. How is the street-driveability of that solid 3-puck that you have? would you recommend a 4-puck instead? sprung or solid?

www.sdsefi.com
I guess it's kind of like a megasquirt kit, but you use a controller box to change all the parameters instead of a labtop. I love it, because it's so easy to use & you can tune it while you drive.

Solid 3 puck for the street is harsh you might wanna try the 4 puck depending on what you have planned for the car.

cool, thanks! The car will be doing mostly street driving with maybe around 12psi, and (time & money depending) as many trackdays as I can get to (and up the boost to 20psi or so). So, I'll probably give that 4-puck a shot.

A Sprung hub 6 puck is very streetable. A 4 puck gets to be to grabby for me. But I am gettin old.

I know a lot of people like Centerforce clutches, but I have never had much luck with them.

any chance for some video?

did you post pics of your exhaust in that other thread?

Hey jbob,
Not to be off topic, just a little aside here.

I've seen photos of you car. What kind of front valance do you have? It looks like it IS the bumper cover. All one piece?

a noob, so bear with me.

-Thanks

Greg, yeah, I think i'm going to go for the 4-puck & be done with clutches for a while (unless I go on a boost frenzy like good&tight :D ).

beatniks, I'll try to get some video of it up soon, either through my crappy digital camera...or if I can convince TomPowered to do a short vid for me.
nah, don't think I posted a pic of the exhaust before...here's a pic of what i built pre-bimmerfest...since then, I've rebuilt the last bend & straight, added a flex pipe, & relocated the O2 sensor: http://community.webshots.com/photo/332827676/2265669450069101025nDvLVR#

typhoon, it's the bmw motorsport bumper (even has a bmw part number on it). It's a pretty rare piece, but they'll pop up for sale every once in a while. The originals arn't cheap, and Korman makes a fiberglass replica.

jbob
WAY TO HANG IN THERE!!!!:redspot :alright
I know how these long projects can take their toll on you.

Sounds like you've got an even more awesome ride now!

I have always wanted to turbo my automatic - Sounds like a blast. Gets some vids of that thing!

Aweseme man. I can't wait to see more pics and some video.

BTW, thanks for testing the centerforce clutch for me. I haven't bought mine yet. I know my motor will be much more mild than yours, but I'm hoping to at least be around 10 psi so I bet I would have had the same slipping problem.

Sure it's not wheel spin? HUIIIHIAHAHIIAHahdihaisdhfaisfdia!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

I hate you... yet secretly adore everything about you.

Sure it's not wheel spin? HUIIIHIAHAHIIAHahdihaisdhfaisfdia!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

I hate you... yet secretly adore everything about you.

No :( , I checked the rear view mirror....I was sadfased


Thanks eberyone! Yeah, I'll try to get some more pics/vids up because even with the slipping clutch, it's still a little quick.

Awesome, I get to drive this in 4 weeks, right?

maybe....depends if i get the clutch in time & fix an idle issue it's having.

I drove it around in 118* heat today, and the engine hates the hot-weather. It runs fine, could use a little more ignition retarding, but coolant temps got up to the 200's. lol, but it still hauls ass....I took 2 people for a quick spin up & down the block.

are you going to run an airfilter eventually?

maybe....depends if i get the clutch in time & fix an idle issue it's having.

I drove it around in 118* heat today, and the engine hates the hot-weather. It runs fine, could use a little more ignition retarding, but coolant temps got up to the 200's. lol, but it still hauls ass....I took 2 people for a quick spin up & down the block.


Psst. water-methanol injection. If its good enough for fighter pilots....

:D

Nice setup jbob!!! Definately one of the nicer turbo setups out there. What intercooler are you running? Do you have any pics? I have the starion intercooler right now and would like to get into something larger.

How are you liking your sds? I also have sds on my e21, but soon going to be converting to MS due to it's added capabilities.

That is very interesting that the clutch is slipping, considering it is a centerforge. You would expect it to hold for the price they run. An e30m3 turbo we tuned at my work also has a non-puck centerforge and it isn't slipping at all.

Nice setup jbob!!! Definately one of the nicer turbo setups out there. What intercooler are you running? Do you have any pics? I have the starion intercooler right now and would like to get into something larger.

How are you liking your sds? I also have sds on my e21, but soon going to be converting to MS due to it's added capabilities.

That is very interesting that the clutch is slipping, considering it is a centerforge. You would expect it to hold for the price they run. An e30m3 turbo we tuned at my work also has a non-puck centerforge and it isn't slipping at all.
Are you going to sell the SDS?

Are you going to sell the SDS?

Yes. I am in the process of installing a new motor in and will be running/tuning it with the SDS just to get the motor broken in and get used to the new turbo. I will then remove it and install the MS.

When I do sell it, it will include everything including coilpacks. I would really prefer selling it to someone going to be using it on a m10(NA or boosted), since it is already going to be tuned. BTW, I do all my tuning on a mustang dyno.

jason-

im glad things are finally falling into place

you must give me a brief ride at b-fest....unlinke someone with another turbo E21...cough...cough

haha, yeah, the air filter is coming...gotta find something that'll fit in that tight space. I might just put on a 90* elbow & slap on a long cone filter.

water/alky injection is coming further down the road. Haven't really gotten around to researching kits.


the intercooler is actually from an ESS stage 2 s/c kit for an E46 330i.....the core is smaller than I had originally wanted, but it has nice cast end-tanks & should easily be able to support the power I'm after. But that intercooler was a PITA to mount...had to cut a lot of the front clip, shave part of the headlight buckets, & reinforce the bumper mounts.
I forget the exact dimensions of the core, but it's around 18x10x2.

I'm loving the SDS. it's having some idle issues right now that I'm going to spend tomorrow trying to fix it.

Yeah, I'm a bit puzzled with the centerforce clutch too....I think it has less than 7k miles on it. I'm beginning to worry more that it's the pressure plate @ fault, because when I first installed it, the clutch pedal doesn't feel noticably harsher than when I had the stock SACHS pressure plate....the engagement was a little more touchy, but easy to get used to & slip the clutch in 1st.


matt, for sure! I've been giving rides with the slipping clutch & it's still fun as hell.

guess the clutch can't handle what they claim

also remember you have the very first dual friction they made:D I probably still have the receipt from that damn thing. It was stupid money for 1996.

I'd advise you take it out before you burn it up and off it on ebay. You need a multi puck maing!

Yep, thanks again!. I'm going to pull it soon just to make sure bearing grease didn't make it's way onto the pad surface because i'm having a hard time believing the motor is making THAT much torque on only 7psi.

i'm having a hard time believing the motor is making THAT much torque on only 7psi.

with your setup, cam, and config, I wouldn't doubt it

with a real puck clutch setup I'll bet it'll snap your neck:buttrock

what rear end are you using btw?

with a real puck clutch setup I'll bet it'll snap your neck:buttrock
i hope so :D

i'm still using a 3.91, but it's now a LSD (such a huge improvement over that open diff). I don't really want to use taller gearing, redlining 5th gear should be plenty for me in the aerodynamic savvy E21 :help

Originally Posted by jbob
i'm having a hard time believing the motor is making THAT much torque on only 7psi.

Centerforce rates the DF 90% over stock. Stock M10's make what ? 100 to 105 hp, add 7 psi to that and you've doubled the hp and torque easily. I had a hard time believing myself along with other people saying "no way is that M10 making that much power":lol

At 10psi with your setup you should be making 200+rwhp.

Try to bump a whole can of brake cleaner into the clutch disk to rid of any grease you might suspect. My bearing blew sometime ago and I did this and it helped until I had to replace the clutch.

I have always heard poor results with Centerforce, if you remember I posted about the guy who built my engine told me to stay away from them.

Yep, thanks again!. I'm going to pull it soon just to make sure bearing grease didn't make it's way onto the pad surface because i'm having a hard time believing the motor is making THAT much torque on only 7psi.

You would be surprized at how much those motors put out. The setup I'm running made 223hp@5750 and 211.4ft-lbs@4750 with 2 bad injectors and only at 9lbs.

Videos or BAN!

whoa, thanks! I guess I underestimated the power this motor would be capable of on relatively low boost.
CJ, yeah, i think I'll try that can of brake cleaner first, before pulling the tranny...because working in the garage when it's +110 out sucks. I go through a gallon of water every 5 hrs or so & i'm still a little dehydrated. lol, the low from early this morning was 92*....time to go fry an egg on the street.



Videos or BAN!
workin on it, in the meantime here ya go (http://www.zuckermanpharmacy.com/images/products/big/853085.bmp) :stickoutt

Wow, looks good jbob. It'll be real nice once everything is sorted out I bet.
Tell Joe Cookie I said Hi and he better be workin the ladies out there.

Thanks!
oh cool, u know joe? he's like the newest edition to the azbmw guys that i hang out with...altho it sucks he lives & goes to school on the other side of town. he also hooked me up with getting the BOV flange welded on @ his work (evoms.com). lucky bastard gets to work around high-end sports cars all afternoon.

btw, how did that alpina b6 2.8 checkout, did you pick it up?

Thanks!
oh cool, u know joe? he's like the newest edition to the azbmw guys that i hang out with...altho it sucks he lives & goes to school on the other side of town. he also hooked me up with getting the BOV flange welded on @ his work (evoms.com). lucky bastard gets to work around high-end sports cars all afternoon.

btw, how did that alpina b6 2.8 checkout, did you pick it up?
Yeah Joe is a good shit. Evolution Motorsports looks sick from the pics he has sent. I gotta hand it to him, he's a real go getter. We all went to Limerock to watch some racing and I think he spent 3-4 hrs going from race team to race team looking for work.
Gonna check out the B6 closer this week. I really need to sell the e30 first but Im in no hurry. I know I'll get it and its not going anywhere.

That looks damn nice Jbob! Congrats :)

Good luck sorting all the bugs out and getting some vidzupASAPorban :stickoutt

Damn, I remember when it was a stocky!!
Wish mine was like that now, but having other cars, I've only started modding the E21 now! Hrmmm you can give me evil ideas :)

Awesome. Keep us updated.

i'm still using a 3.91, but it's now a LSD (such a huge improvement over that open diff). I don't really want to use taller gearing, redlining 5th gear should be plenty for me in the aerodynamic savvy E21 :help

Taller gears won't just make your top speed better J. It'll keep you in first, second, third, all the gears longer. The less you change gears the more fast you go:mad With a turbo if you're shifting gears, you're just slowing down. The only reason stock E21's had such short gears to begin with was to give the illusion of acceleration. You don't need the illusion anymore.

you can go taller when you blow the thing up.

Taller gears won't just make your top speed better J. It'll keep you in first, second, third, all the gears longer. The less you change gears the more fast you go:mad With a turbo if you're shifting gears, you're just slowing down. The only reason stock E21's had such short gears to begin with was to give the illusion of acceleration. You don't need the illusion anymore.

you can go taller when you blow the thing up.

You have a point but only to a certain degree about the shifting with a turbo. Switching from a 3.91 to a 3.45 or 3.64 would be good but don't go much lower, the benefits will not outweigh the HUGE gearing.

It is VERY common for turbo owners to swap whatever diff they currently have to a lower numerical ratio. This is done for two reaons. The fatter gear put's more load on the turbo (more boost), and to spend more time in each gear actually putting power down (1st,2nd,3rd, are usually useless) and get a higher top speed. Side benefit of all this is better gas mileage (except when on boost).

You will find traction to be a serious issue very soon. For around 250hp you will need about 235's-245's to put the power down. If you don't want to flare it you would have to relocate the rear shock (possibly make a cantelever linkage and mount it horizontally) and tub the rear.

Thanks! Windy! :) yeah, it has come a long way....it's definately a whole different animal now.
fixed the idle problem i was having for now (basically just made a 'calculated' :stickoutt vacuum leak in the intake manifold)...I need to get a suitable air-valve & check-valve to setup a remote idle control unit.

nic, yeah, I'm sure i'll probably change my mind once I get a clutch that won't slip & really see how fast this sucker can accelerate.

Yeah, a buddy with a VW 16V turbo with the stock close-ratio, low ring & pinion - it is almost a waste. A wider ratio spacing or taller ring & pinion would make MUCH better use of the powerband.

Neek - I don't know what the hell you are talking about a taller R&P not making top speed higher? That is simple math. I'll be at Bonneville Salt Flats again this year - come out there and try to pass that off.

With low power or a narrow powerband, the closer the ratios of the gears need to be for best acceleration.

Neek - I don't know what the hell you are talking about a taller R&P not making top speed higher? That is simple math. I'll be at Bonneville Salt Flats again this year - come out there and try to pass that off.
withh low power or a narrow powerband, the closer the ratios of the gears need to be for best acceleration.
I think he meant it willl give you a higher top speed, but it will also give you better acceleration due to not having to shift as often.

A higher gear may give you a higher top end provided you have the power to push a brick through the air that fast or if you were gear limited with the lower gear. If not, a lower gear may actually still give you a higher top end. The z06 vette, for example, reaches it's top speed in 5th gear, not 6th, which is way too tall to make use of the engines power (yes I know that's a totally different ball game than the e21, its just an example). I really don't know since I haven't driven a high power e21 yet.

Exactly.

Try this link for gearing.
http://www.speedworldmotorplex.com/calc.htm

further in the future I plan on doing some widebody (I'm really digging the group2 fender flares) with some custom 17" wheels.
But for now, I'd much rather take the risk with traction issues with relatively skinny street tires than a diff or driveline failure with wider rubber.


But, regardless of gearing and tire size....it's still going to be fun as hell and give me a perma-grin :D

But for now, I'd much rather take the risk with traction issues with relatively skinny street tires than a diff or driveline failure with wider rubber.

And have more fun than the legal limit.

with the skinny tires you can do some crazy drifts and brake traction instead of breaking guibos or diffs.....

Nice ! keep us posted !

thank's for bumping the thread....coincidentally, the 4-puck clutch came in this afternoon. it is quite a bit stiffer than stock, and the engagement range is very short but still controllable. I did find some bearing grease on one side of the centerforce clutch, so I'm sure that had to a lot to do with the clutch slipping.

but holy crap, only got it up to 6 or 7psi: 1st gear wheel spin, 2nd gear wheel spin for the first half, and it chirps 3rd gear...this was all with the 215 T1-S's. the ignition tuning still needs to be sorted out because the power seems to level off over 4.5k rpms (AFR's still look good)

vid's coming shortly...time to go drive :D

I get the first ride, Im going to get you smashed and get the keys, OMGBOOSTRAPE2U

thank's for bumping the thread....coincidentally, the 4-puck clutch came in this afternoon. it is quite a bit stiffer than stock, and the engagement range is very short but still controllable. I did find some bearing grease on one side of the centerforce clutch, so I'm sure that had to a lot to do with the clutch slipping.

but holy crap, only got it up to 6 or 7psi: 1st gear wheel spin, 2nd gear wheel spin for the first half, and it chirps 3rd gear...this was all with the 215 T1-S's. the ignition tuning still needs to be sorted out because the power seems to level off over 4.5k rpms (AFR's still look good)

vid's coming shortly...time to go drive :D

whats the cam spec on that turbo cam, like a 280 deg?

I notice the same affect with just a 288 cam and the 38/38 weber. Torque is like a hammer and levels off around 4.5K rpm to redline.

Damn, tune it and crank up the boost maing!!! Drop the hammer!

Might I suggest some Azenis or Toyo RA1's:devillook

thank's for bumping the thread....coincidentally, the 4-puck clutch came in this afternoon. it is quite a bit stiffer than stock, and the engagement range is very short but still controllable.
Nooooooice, what brand did you end up going with?

And bump for vidzorban :D

thank's for bumping the thread....coincidentally, the 4-puck clutch came in this afternoon. it is quite a bit stiffer than stock, and the engagement range is very short but still controllable. I did find some bearing grease on one side of the centerforce clutch, so I'm sure that had to a lot to do with the clutch slipping.

but holy crap, only got it up to 6 or 7psi: 1st gear wheel spin, 2nd gear wheel spin for the first half, and it chirps 3rd gear...this was all with the 215 T1-S's. the ignition tuning still needs to be sorted out because the power seems to level off over 4.5k rpms (AFR's still look good)

vid's coming shortly...time to go drive :D
You should tune it on a dyno now for best safe power using their wideband. It is deff worth the money, plus you'll know how much power your making.
If your getting wheel spin through first a second on those Toyo's your making some serious power :devillook The T1-S's are pretty soft compound and make tons of smoke:evil2

Well, it looks like I'm in the market for a clutch soon as well. Do you guys think the 6 puc clutch will hold up to 250hp? If not I'll go with the 4 puc, but I don't want it too grabby. Will the 6 puc provide a little more longevity of the flywheel over a 4 puc? I don't really slip the clutch over 1000 rpm when driving regularly, so I won't be too hard on it other than the occasional dump/powershift

I'd take a 4puc. You will feel the need to inch up the boost over time. Might as well invest in the best.