which would give me better grip at an autocross? brand new tires or a set of very worn ones? i have 2 sets of wheels right now with each. i'm guessing from experience that the brand new tires are going to be rather slick at first before being broken in. i just don't know if a shot set of tires would be much worse.

by the way, the brand new tires are kumho ecsta 712's, and the old tires are michelin pilot sports. thanks-

I've found that half worn street tires grip the best at an autocross (compared to completely worn or brand new), but in your case the worn Michelins, depending on how worn they actually are, would probably grip better than brand new Kumho 712s.

Regardless of which ones would have better grip, i would run the worn tires 'til they're completely unusable, and then start using your new ones. No reason to start wasting the tread on the new tires if you've got usable tread on the old tires.:12:

Just my 2 cents.

I just purchased Faulken Azenis. They were dirt cheap, so i had to give them a try.

For the oldies, you can purchase a product called Track Claw. It will get more life out of them.

Check with whatever sanctioning body you're racing with to be sure that dressing tires like this is legal, though.

http://www.trackclaw.com/products.htm

If the cords ain't showin'.... the tires are fine!

I run my auto-x tires until the cords show. Then they go to the tire graveyard (Discount Tire).

Any major events usually get a fresh set of tires (Nationals, etc).

Originally posted by John in Houston
If the cords ain't showin'.... the tires are fine!

I run my auto-x tires until the cords show. Then they go to the tire graveyard (Discount Tire).

Any major events usually get a fresh set of tires (Nationals, etc).

The grip goes away before the rubber does!
A tire can only take so many heat cycles before the rubber gets too hard (rubber continually cures throughout the tire's life).

A rare occurrence for me shown in the picture below (Evolution School)

Originally posted by Randy Forbes
The grip goes away before the rubber does!
A tire can only take so many heat cycles before the rubber gets too hard (rubber continually cures throughout the tire's life).

Those look like some dead "Who'syourdaddys".... although I have pictures of some off of my mustang that would make yours look like they just fell out of UPS' truck! 2900lbs, 400 rwhp, no ABS and 3* of negative camber will kill a Hoosier in no time flat!

True... in many cases the tires are heat cycled to death.... and as such have no grip. I have kumhos now and find that they last alot more heat cycles than the Hoosiers. If for no other reason then they sport more tread to begin with.

If you figure 1 auto-x a month... 12 months, that's only 12 heat cycles per season. If there are no cords, then the tires are still good. Might not be as fast as the 2nd heat cycle... but by no means garbage.

As I mentioned above, if it's a 'real' event, then new shoes... if not, drive them until you cord them.

john: do you recommend the tire restoration fluids like the track claw?

Originally posted by BJO
john: do you recommend the tire restoration fluids like the track claw?

Honestly, no. What I find is that as tires 'go away'... you (the driver) actually get faster.

See, when grip is good (new), then you don't have to work as hard to go fast. If you aren't going fast on new tires, you suck! Now, as tires go away, you have to work harder to go just as fast... or faster... so you actually are getting more quality seat time.

Its all about seat time and the quality of driving that occurs when you are in the seat. Driving on old/hard tires lets you learn how to drive when grip is low. Now take that knowledge and go faster when grip is high.

John.

PS- You can compare this to drivers switching cars with other drivers. They do that to get a feel for how other cars react. All of this is transferable to your car / your driving. It can only make you faster!

john: ok, makes sense. you always give good advice. i have noticed that my kumhos don't grip as well after 15+ events. i do have to drive better now since they are not as good as they were new. i have switched cars during auto-x before, but it was with a no power steering civic that my friend can drive really well. after that, i had a better appreciation on how good the m3 really is and that the driver still sucks.

Originally posted by BJO
john: ok, makes sense. you always give good advice.

Only because we aren't competing... yet:awink: !

No... most of the SoloII drivers will help out... and thats what I try to do. Some of what I do isn't 'mainstream'... but I drive with alot of National caliber drivers... and I tend to take their advice more seriously than what I read on the internet. Watch them at the events. Ask them to ride through with you. You will learn alot. I'll introduce you to some of them if you want.

I've learned alot from those guys up at A&M and the HOUSCCA group. I learned alot from going to Nationals (2x). I learn something new every time I auto-x. I didn't learn anything at Malibu Grand Prix though :).

Its all about learning!

John,

We were kinda busy this summer...
Thirteen events in six months:)
That doesn't count a local club autocross school, an Evolution school (both of us but we used both cars with Sue running on SO3s) and a test & tune.
And my wife ran all but a couple of autocrosses and the t & t.
So as far as the car/tires know, that's like twenty-four events (we are always thrown in different heats which gives the car/tires plenty of time to cool down).

I have to agree with you about driving to make up for the tires when they go off. That's why I love getting new tires!

BTW, do you ever run with any of the SOWELA crowd (Lake Charles)?
As far as I know, they still do the TLAC (Trans Louisiana Autocross Challenge).

Originally posted by Randy Forbes
BTW, do you ever run with any of the SOWELA crowd (Lake Charles)?
As far as I know, they still do the TLAC (Trans Louisiana Autocross Challenge).

I have not heard of that challenge. I usually show up for the divisional (if they have it). Last time they tried to drown us with tropical storm Allison. Then after 9/11 I think they lost the place they used to auto-x.

Lake Charles still does it in the convention center parking lot... but I have not been for the last 2 years.