I recently purchased an m3 via ebay and when i received car, i immediatley took it to local bmw service to be sure everything is up to par. Well to my surprise, they told me that the car was previously wrecked but had done a good job replacing everything. the only way they found out was because all the computer codes came up as new parts being installed... ANYWAYS... the dealership i bought it from said that "it had no known previous accidents and all was in good shape car". I am pissed because i paid for a non accident m3/ rather than the devalued m3. cant i do anything to lower price for fraud or sue him or something.. personally i would like to keep the car.. but them telling me it was not in accident in writing is fraud to me..another thing, since i am guessing is was a small accident, carfax did not show nor vin look up... just comp codes from bmw dealer..


please help need advice ASAP

Wow 22 View And No Advise Thanks Guys

If the car was misrepresented by a dealer, you can sue for diminished value.

Call a lawyer. That's your best bet.

How exactly did they find that the parts were replaced via a computer? I've never heard of such a thing, and have played with MODiC 2 and GT1 computers before. Heck, I used to be a BMW Dealer and never heard of such a thing.

Elaborate a bit more... price paid, etc.

ummm....people lie on ebay.

Buy a car local next time (test drive, look at, etc.)

Hopefully an attorney will chime in here (which I am not)--but I would:

1) Print/download any ads, the ebay posting, etc. that support your position that the car was a "no accident" vehicle.

2) Gather evidence which supports that the accident vehicle has diminished value, and what that dollar figure is. Your local/inspecting shop may be of value here.

3) Contact the sales manager at the dealer, and tell him your situation (in nice, professional language). Present your evidence about the dollar amount, and then ask if he is has the authority to remedy the situation. If yes, ask for a check. If no, ask to speak to the person who can make that decision.

4) If you get no satisfaction, contact E-Bay (they have a fraud department) as well as an attorney.

Good luck. Not to rub salt into your wound, but when buying a non-local car ALWAYS have it inspected by an independent shop. Always.

Scott

Did it have a Carfax buyback guarantee? OTOH, the accident would have to have been reported to the police, which would mean Carfax didn't pick it up. Slim chance of that.

This is why you should always have someone check the car out before you buy it. Just another reason I am not ever buying a car off ebay.

OK hold on, cars get into accidents. It happens. The only way the car is going to "diminish" in value is IF the car receives a salvage title - or the car according the insurance company costs more to fix than it's present value.

So if the car doesn't have a salvage title, it's value is no different than any other used car, save perhaps in the mind of the buyer - like you.

How can anyone know if their car has "new" parts. Some bodyshops and most dealers have a VIN database that records any repairs or services to the car, like oil changes to replacement body parts.

Carfax picks up some of that, but mostly the police report side it seems.

In your case, I'm not sure you even have grounds for a case. In that stack of loan, legal an title paperwork, there's probably a clause for "minor accidents".

So here's my take - I sold my last 1996 M3 for pretty much market value. I disclosed that the previous owner had gotten into accident where the entire passenger side panels and suspension was replaced. I also disclosed that I was rear ended and that the entire rear bumper, spare tire well and trunk lid were replaced. Those items also came up on carfax.

My car did not receive a salvage title nor did it affect the performance, safety or looks of the car. And again, it sold for $14,500. Not bad for a 1996 M3 with 100k.

Thus said, assuming your car doesn't have a salvage title, what's left is the nature of the repairs done.

"Well to my surprise, they told me that the car was previously wrecked but had done a good job replacing everything. the only way they found out was because all the computer codes came up as new parts being installed."

If you could tell us the parts installed, that would help us determine what kind of wreck the car was involved in. BUT... it doesn't look like it was major enough to record in Carfax or a VIN DB.

How exactly did they find that the parts were replaced via a computer? I've never heard of such a thing, and have played with MODiC 2 and GT1 computers before. Heck, I used to be a BMW Dealer and never heard of such a thing.

Elaborate a bit more... price paid, etc.

+1

It's very interesting that the original poster hasn't said anything since the start of the thread.

I'll bet that he bought an M3 off of eBay for a LOT less than his local dealer wanted, and in an effort to have his cake and eat it too, sent it to the dealer for a "post sale inspection". Now what do you think the dealer is going to say? "Oh man you got a great deal, good thing you didn't buy it from us!"

Not quite.

(My guess is that he bought it from a wholesaler, as-is for a killer cheap price)

I'm still DYING to know the computer that told them it had codes for accident repair. A GT1 won't do that.. I've gotta find the computer that does!

It's probably had a painted hood or fender or some other such small mishap that won't affect its' value and the dealer is trying to scare the buyer.

Hopefully an attorney will chime in here (which I am not)--but I would:

1) Print/download any ads, the ebay posting, etc. that support your position that the car was a "no accident" vehicle.

2) Gather evidence which supports that the accident vehicle has diminished value, and what that dollar figure is. Your local/inspecting shop may be of value here.

3) Contact the sales manager at the dealer, and tell him your situation (in nice, professional language). Present your evidence about the dollar amount, and then ask if he is has the authority to remedy the situation. If yes, ask for a check. If no, ask to speak to the person who can make that decision.

4) If you get no satisfaction, contact E-Bay (they have a fraud department) as well as an attorney.

Good luck. Not to rub salt into your wound, but when buying a non-local car ALWAYS have it inspected by an independent shop. Always.

Scott

If he bought the car AS-IS then it's AS-IS, not AS-ISN'T. And I would gather that the ad said "No known accidents" or some other such verbage. Very few people that I have ever met, including myself (The guy that gets paid by edmunds.com for advice) are going to spot paintwork on every single car.

In fact, I doubt anyone could.

And who is to say his local dealer isn't lying? It sure as hell sounds like they are from where I sit.

First, buying cars off ebay or the internet is a great thing and everyone should do it. The problem is being penny wise and dollar stupid. Why in the world would you EVER spend $15k-$20K for a car and try to save money on making sure you are making a sound investment. Spend the few hundred dollars to fly out and make sure the car is what you expect. It just blows my mind that after spending all the money for a car that a few hundred will get in the way.

Was this car really hit? I mean, if they couldn't tell from the inspection, then it probably wasn't hit...at least not with any significance. If it was, to the point that several parts had to be changed, the signs are there. Just feeling along the lip of the hood by the windshield to see if it's smooth or kind of rough. If it's kind of rough, it's been painted. Same along the other creases. Either way, if the carfax is clean, and a mechanic can't tell from looking at it (I don't buy the scanning of the parts either...what would they be scanning anyway? A part doesn't say "I'm replaced due to an accident"), then your value is just fine.

How exactly did they find that the parts were replaced via a computer? I've never heard of such a thing, and have played with MODiC 2 and GT1 computers before. Heck, I used to be a BMW Dealer and never heard of such a thing.

Elaborate a bit more... price paid, etc.


Ex: Most cars will set SRS codes codes if a bag goes off or the impact sensors reads high enough. Also, if anything gets unplugged with the battery connected, the codes will just be coming out of nowhere.

Ex: Most cars will set SRS codes codes if a bag goes off or the impact sensors reads high enough. Also, if anything gets unplugged with the battery connected, the codes will just be coming out of nowhere.

If the car is otherwise functioning normally, it's not going to throw codes.

Read again, the original poster claims the dealer told him something.. that the car showed codes for component replacement. Such codes don't generally exist.

you fucked up buying a car over the internet .

If the car is otherwise functioning normally, it's not going to throw codes.

Read again, the original poster claims the dealer told him something.. that the car showed codes for component replacement. Such codes don't generally exist.


As someone who has worked in the auto service industry for 6 different manufactures, damage done and the repair work following an accident will almost certainly set certain kinds of codes. You don't believe me, unplug you maf sensor and go drive around. MAF code will set as soon as you turn over the key and will stay until it's cleared. The dealer isn't saying there are specific codes that say "this part was replaced". The code will most likely be a signal error code as a result of a component being unplugged while the battery was still connected/key was turned to on.

As someone who has worked in the auto service industry for 6 different manufactures, damage done and the repair work following an accident will almost certainly set certain kinds of codes. You don't believe me, unplug you maf sensor and go drive around. MAF code will set as soon as you turn over the key and will stay until it's cleared. The dealer isn't saying there are specific codes that say "this part was replaced". The code will most likely be a signal error code as a result of a component being unplugged while the battery was still connected/key was turned to on.

Sure, and those codes will throw off warning lights. An unplugged MAF will often prevent a car from being driveable.

The OP posted that the dealer claimed parts were replaced BC teh computer told him so, that's complete BS. Take this from someone who used to own a MODiC.

Sure, and those codes will throw off warning lights. An unplugged MAF will often prevent a car from being driveable.
.

Sure, and those codes will throw off warning lights. An unplugged MAF will often prevent a car from being driveable.

The OP posted that the dealer claimed parts were replaced BC teh computer told him so, that's complete BS. Take this from someone who used to own a MODiC.


Bro I was just using the MAF as an example. If a car is in a accident where it's hit fairly hard or harder, 95% of the time it has to be taken to a dealer following the repair/body work to reset all the fault codes that were stored as a result of the accident and the repair work that followed. You can choose to maintain your ignorance on the topic, or you could call a body shop/dealer and ask them if you don't believe me. If the accident causes a decent amount of damage, I promise you there will be at least one or more SRS codes stored as a result, be it from the bags themselves, the sensors, or the seat belts. And as far as unplugging the MAF goes, I can't tell you how many of my tech's had to UNPLUG MAF's on cars they were working on just to get it back to the shop b/c the MAF failed completely. It's not a fun ride, but most cars can still run unplugged. Just not run well. And FYI, I ran my modded '01 1.8T Jetta for over a year without the MAF plugged in. After being told the MAF was faulty, and replacing it three times with no sucess, it actually ran better reverting to the defaults than it did taking an actual reading from the MAF.

the dealer is only required to disclose if its salvaged or not.

"....it had no known previous accidents....".



lot's of subjectivity in this one statement. dealer could easily play dumb. especially if above is in writing.

you fucked up buying a car over the internet .
.

You know what, its not worth it, if the previous damage is well repaired be happy with it and keep the car. I bought my M3 from Missisippi and I flew down and picked it up. exterior wise it was perfect and the interior looked the same also. When I got it to NY with my first issue, the radiator hose broke and I sent it to my mechanic, he came back and reported to me that the car had been in an accident. I did the check on the car before purchasing on ebay and the carfax said or mentioned nothing. I also had to be towed the the tow guy somehow f'ed-up my rear bumper and that had to be repaired and when the body took a look, he also told me the car had been in an accident. I fixed all that need to be fixed and never really looked back, because when I called the dealer he basically told me there is nothing he could do because he bought the car without a salvage title and for all he knew the car was never in an accident. 2 years later I wouldn't give up the car for anything. I am still working on it to get it where I want and I am very happy. Point is if you saved some money on the car use it to make the repairs that are needed, otherwise you still have a piece of automobile engineering history drive it, and enjoy it the best you can.

Bro I was just using the MAF as an example. If a car is in a accident where it's hit fairly hard or harder, 95% of the time it has to be taken to a dealer following the repair/body work to reset all the fault codes that were stored as a result of the accident and the repair work that followed. You can choose to maintain your ignorance on the topic, or you could call a body shop/dealer and ask them if you don't believe me. If the accident causes a decent amount of damage, I promise you there will be at least one or more SRS codes stored as a result, be it from the bags themselves, the sensors, or the seat belts. And as far as unplugging the MAF goes, I can't tell you how many of my tech's had to UNPLUG MAF's on cars they were working on just to get it back to the shop b/c the MAF failed completely. It's not a fun ride, but most cars can still run unplugged. Just not run well. And FYI, I ran my modded '01 1.8T Jetta for over a year without the MAF plugged in. After being told the MAF was faulty, and replacing it three times with no sucess, it actually ran better reverting to the defaults than it did taking an actual reading from the MAF.

As someone who's owned more Franchsed dealerships than you have likely owned cars and who owns a respected BMW shop, you're right, I must be ignorant.

the only way they found out was because all the computer codes came up as new parts being installed...

THAT is what the original poster said. THAT is not plausible. A GT-1 will simply NOT tell you that components have been replaced. It will read fault codes which sure as hell can be triggered by an accident, nobody, myself included, is arguing with you there.

This is why I called Shenanigans on the dealer who made this outrageous and impossible claim. Do I think the original poster is lying? No. Do I think that he was told impossible information that the normal layman would not know to be false? Damn skippy.

Carry on.

As someone who's owned more Franchsed dealerships than you have likely owned cars and who owns a respected BMW shop, you're right, I must be ignorant.



THAT is what the original poster said. THAT is not plausible. A GT-1 will simply NOT tell you that components have been replaced. It will read fault codes which sure as hell can be triggered by an accident, nobody, myself included, is arguing with you there.

This is why I called Shenanigans on the dealer who made this outrageous and impossible claim. Do I think the original poster is lying? No. Do I think that he was told impossible information that the normal layman would not know to be false? Damn skippy.

Carry on.

I can't tell if you are now agreeing with me or not.

It will read fault codes which sure as hell can be triggered by an accident, nobody, myself included, is arguing with you there.

That's exactly what I've been saying all along.

Get over this already... PLEEEZ! He bought it over the internet without properly inspecting first .