This guy has single handedly turned the entire fleet of BMW's into small, medium, and large: Lexus IS300's:confused. What happened to strong, muscular lines and European finesse. BMW is turning into a Japanese Automaker, they all look like spaceships, and now so do BMW's:nono. Oh and in case anyone here thinks Bangle had anything to do with the E46 M3, he did not:shifty. He was overseeing the project but did not have final say over anything regarding the E46 M3. The e46 is the last true BMW, it has managed to outlast every other model BMW through retaining its original pre-bangle design:D, and now its over forever:(.

yeah I know they are just spy shots and test mules, and prototypes. But unless BMW is screwing with us and has a completely different design, this thing is going to suck. Hell even the motor is just an M5 block with 2 cylinders cut off. Can we not cut this corner and give the M3 its own specifically designed motor. I dont think anyone who wants and can afford to buy this car cares about a little extra money on engine parts that cant be used on the M5 as well.

so back to the point...Anyone know where chris bangle lives...:evil2

Oh well, now i dont feel so bad about not being able to get an e92. I am already in a better car.

E46 M3 FTW!!!!:buttrock

the cutting of cylinders has been a bmw tradition for a long time. if you look at the s14, and the s38 motors.

can you elaborate what your talking about the is300's? i have no idea what you are reffering to.

If you look at the old IS300 headlights, body lines, etc. you will see very similar design styles implimented in every BMW series especially the 5. The slant nose is not BMW at all. Basically just saying that BMW are starting to look like japanese designed cars. Take a look at the is and then some BMW's.

http://www.lexus.com/models/is/index.html
http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/3/2006330isedan/default

http://www.lexus.com/models/gs/index.html
http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/5/530xisedan/default

just grabbed these pics off of the BMW and lex websites...

Bangle took part in designing the E46 M3 too... personally, I like all his new designs. They are just way ahead of their time. He must be doing something right are sales are still climbing.

If you're not going to give Bangle credit for creating the E46 then don't cruicify him for all the other designs. Bangle was DESIGN DIRECTOR of BMW AG from the Z3 on. Everything that came after the Z3 was his responsibility, although he personally had no hand in any of the design, he merely provide the direction in which the design need to move forward in.

my only real problem with his design is that he made the 3 series too big and fat looking. The z3 M coupe is my favorite late model bmw ever. The road penis as i like to call it.

I really like the new cars. I think you are not giving him enough credit. Japanese automakers have done one thing really well since thier beginning, copy Europe. If you think that the current Crop of Lexus cars look a lot like BMW's, check out the 2005 GS300. That one looks distinctly Mercedes. Japan copies Europe. They do it well too, but they are still just facimilies. BMW sets the trend and then the rest of the world scrambles to follow. The current style of BMW started with the 2001 7 series. That is a lot of time to develop a similar looking car, it has been 5 years since those hit showrooms.

my only real problem with his design is that he made the 3 series too big and fat looking. The z3 M coupe is my favorite late model bmw ever. The road penis as i like to call it.


off topic, but your sig is awsome. lols.

I think the problem with the new designs is that they're a complete U-turn from 2001 and back. Look at companies like Audi and Porsche, which have maintained consistent styling for a long time. When I see an Audi or Porsche on the road, I recognize it immediately. Their designs are always evolving but generally without any dramatic changes. The same is no longer true for BMW. I lost faith in BMW's designs the day I saw the new 5-series and thought it was a Pontiac GTO. Bimmer designs have long been appreciated for their very clean lines. Now look at them, the lines are all over the place. Maybe the designs are ahead of their time. I just have a feeling that in 10 years people are going to be laughing at these designs, sort of like the 1980s "what were they thinking!" style.

I think his look at me designs appeal to the majority of BMWs target demographics, especially in their biggest market.

They are just way ahead of their time. .

Werd.... notice how the decklids on quite a few of the new cars are strangely similiar to the stacked deck on the 7 that everyone complained about a few years ago? Yet...oddly enough...no complaints about the new cars today?

he needs to die. i hate that fucker.

Its disappointing to hear so many people bash such trend setting unique, desgins.

BMW was criticized by most designers during the 90's as having bland, german cars. BMW's past designs were never referred to as BAD they were just not held up as anything but cars; fashion over function, practicality over viewable passion.

We all know that the cars were filled with passion, were then still are now some of the best drivers cars produced. Some of that passion has been transferred to the lines. Someone had to start taking the company in another direction. When the e34/e32/e30 was produced everyone bitched about slant nose being gone, when the e36/e39/e38 were released they were criticized for being rounded, simply following the trends of the 90's in rounding everything off.

Finally BMW starts taking a stand in making there cars look abit more the part. First look for the design ques in the new BMW's, then compare them to others, you will find that just because a taillight, or turn signal reminds you of another cheap car doesn't mean the overall design concept should. Its hard to create a car totally un relatable in every way, and its even harder to create sedans which are un relatable.

Follow the lines in the 5 and you will find a masculine German athletic pose. Looks like its always ready to pounce. I think of the 5 series as a German running shoe dressed with Armani leather and stitching. There are so many tense lines and broad surfaces but very few of the surfaces look confused.
Now take the cars you compare the 5 too and look them over completely all the lines, all the surfaces I think you will start to see why in fact the 5 and all the other BMW's are a step in the right direction in most ways.

I am not a fanboi of new BMW design, but I am trying to give it a fair shake.

Josh

p.s. I own an e21, and a Z so im not being defensive.

In my opinion I like the new line of Chris Bangle creations. I personally think he is a genius. His concepts are fresh and the more you look at the e90 you like it. I first didn't take well with his ideas but art imitates life. His cars tend to grow on me just as he wanted them to with the exception of the 6's.

Over time the true testament of Bangle designs will be aprreciated. If it takes 2 years for me to truely enjoy his designs. Then 10 years down after, I will truely love it.

With this new idea or philosophy with the HEADS at BMW, I think this will put them ahead of the competition. Instead of some trendy Retro-look, they made a car that will age well with design in the future. And not some trendy "flash the pants design" that will get old and boring after the first years.

Ultimate Driving Machine

If you look at the old IS300 headlights, body lines, etc. you will see very similar design styles implimented in every BMW series especially the 5. The slant nose is not BMW at all. Basically just saying that BMW are starting to look like japanese designed cars. Take a look at the is and then some BMW's.

http://www.lexus.com/models/is/index.html
http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/3/2006330isedan/default

http://www.lexus.com/models/gs/index.html
http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/5/530xisedan/default

just grabbed these pics off of the BMW and lex websites...

I TOTALLY AGREE!!! The E92 coupe looks like a freaking Acura from the rear. The tail lights are fugly. All the new designs are bland and japanese looking. And when you stick the E90 next to theE46, E36, E30, you see a progression of the same design concepts that stops at the E90. Only the side profile look similar, but the front and rear and not at all related.

cue sir mixalot
I like big butts...

I will admit that I had a blind hate for Chris Bangle when the E65 and the E60 came out. And I still personally do not like the preface lifted E65 but I grew to the E60. I actually think its a great looking car it just took me some time to get used to it.

As far as Bangle goes, he's the design director of the BMW Group. If you don't like the 7 or the 6 blame that crazy dutch guy Adrian Van Hooydonk. As he designed both of those cars, and he was even on "the making of a bmw: the 6 series" a short while ago and talked about the designing process. And yeah Bangle was there as well but he was to help make decisions and a design language direction.

Here is a list of designers and the cars designed by them:
Joji Nagashima: E36 3 series, Z3, E39 5 series

Boyke Boyer: E38 7 series

Klaus Kapitza: E31 8 series

Geoff Velasco: X3 (Designworks)

Chris Chapman: X5 (Designworks)

Anders Warming: Z4 (Designworks)

Henrik Fisker: Z8 (now with Aston)

Kevin Rice: new 1 series

Erik Goplen: E46 3 series (Designworks/USA)

David Arcangeli: E60 5 series

and the guy you love to hate but don't know it. Former Designworks/USA chief:

Adrian Van Hooydonk: E61 6 series, E65 7 series.

And I do believe Chris Bangle did indeed do half the work for the Z4 and the E46 both amazingly good looking cars.

i personally agree with XLR8R...Chris Bangle has turned BMW designs upside down...i haven't been very happy with the new designs at all..as a matter of fact i am really into the new Audi designs and feel as if Audi is def coming up in that aspect...furthermore i wouldnt worry about the new M3 and be happy with the e46...having driven my brothers e46 and his 03 m5 before he sold it; i can def say that those cars were divine creations both inside and out...

PS: I just read the post above me...whoever is responsible for the way BMW's are looking nowadays; they are doing something wrong...whether its Chris Bangle or Adrian Van Hooydonk

This guy has single handedly turned the entire fleet of BMW's into small, medium, and large: Lexus IS300's:confused. What happened to strong, muscular lines and European finesse. BMW is turning into a Japanese Automaker, they all look like spaceships, and now so do BMW's:nono. Oh and in case anyone here thinks Bangle had anything to do with the E46 M3, he did not:shifty. He was overseeing the project but did not have final say over anything regarding the E46 M3. The e46 is the last true BMW, it has managed to outlast every other model BMW through retaining its original pre-bangle design:D, and now its over forever:(.

yeah I know they are just spy shots and test mules, and prototypes. But unless BMW is screwing with us and has a completely different design, this thing is going to suck. Hell even the motor is just an M5 block with 2 cylinders cut off. Can we not cut this corner and give the M3 its own specifically designed motor. I dont think anyone who wants and can afford to buy this car cares about a little extra money on engine parts that cant be used on the M5 as well.

so back to the point...Anyone know where chris bangle lives...:evil2

Oh well, now i dont feel so bad about not being able to get an e92. I am already in a better car.

E46 M3 FTW!!!!:buttrock

I totally agree. One of the three reasons why I love/bought BMW, is because of the boxy shape (E36, E39, E38, E46).
Lets try to to preserve the E3x's, and E46's.

IMO I like all of the new designs, granted they look like shit on paper, but once I saw all of them in person, I fell in love

saw your proof of pics, i dont know about you, but i can tell euro from JDM. bmws in my opinion remind me of sharks, from the old six and especially the new line ones. anyone who cant tell an is300 from a 330i doesnt even deserve to know what a 3 series is lol. on a side note, i agree with them being ahead of time, they dont want to change model every year like the japanese do. its the 5th gen of the 3, and like the 1293029832 of the evo, my point being that if you dont like it now, youll like it later. same way everyone did with the e46, and now its everyones hero. i saw the newline m coupe on paper and i wasnt too happy, but when i saw one in real life and sat in it, its seriously a nice looking ride, and i think people just have to go through that and see these new style more often. i think bangle is doing fine and this bashing on him is so cliche, as if he singlehandedly crafts every chassis and no one else takes part in it, sales are going up, in his line of work you have to please the whole world, which isnt easy to do, fortunately for us BMW cares about enthusiasts and recognizes us and pays respect by keeping some things the same (kink, halos, rwd ect.) and if bmw is making money, more people are enjoying their rides, and their engineering is only getting better, i dont know what the fuck everyones complaining about. designing a car isnt easy at all,you should be grateful for the fact they dont look like aztecas and srt4s. my opinion, so its flame-resistant:) .

In my opinion I like the new line of Chris Bangle creations. I personally think he is a genius. His concepts are fresh and the more you look at the e90 you like it. I first didn't take well with his ideas but art imitates life. His cars tend to grow on me just as he wanted them to with the exception of the 6's.

Over time the true testament of Bangle designs will be aprreciated. If it takes 2 years for me to truely enjoy his designs. Then 10 years down after, I will truely love it.

With this new idea or philosophy with the HEADS at BMW, I think this will put them ahead of the competition. Instead of some trendy Retro-look, they made a car that will age well with design in the future. And not some trendy "flash the pants design" that will get old and boring after the first years.

Ultimate Driving Machine

I agree. The new BMWs look better in person than on film AND the longer you spend around a modern 3 or 5, the better they look. JMHO.

3 words:
resistance is fertile

Henrik Fisker: Z8 (now with Aston)
They shouldn't have let Fisker go. The Z8 is perfection. Thanks for all the info kornkid.

There's an e60 M5 that I can see from my office. The car's stance is so f'ing mean. I look at this think all day and dream...so I consider myself familar with the new design. It works really well.

the cutting of cylinders has been a bmw tradition for a long time. if you look at the s14, and the s38 motors.

can you elaborate what your talking about the is300's? i have no idea what you are reffering to.

The point is people want to find Chris Bangle and tare him a new roundel.

My girlfriend is about to get the 328i coupe, and she loves the fact that it reminds her of her '96 honda accord coupe...

My girlfriend is about to get the 328i coupe, and she loves the fact that it reminds her of her '96 honda accord coupe...

Oh my god, there should be a law prohibiting people from buying BMWs if they don't know anything about cars.

ok.. i hated the bangle crap too.. but you have to really look into his creations to enjoy them.. the headlights on the 5's for example--- still have the original 4 circle shape inside the wavey design that orgiiinated back w/ the 2002's---- there ARE still edges to the vehicles, they just tend to flow all the way around the car--- remember how everyone was flipping out when the e36 came out??? BMW is always 10-15 years ahead of the cut-- look at the new camarys--- they look like the 5's that debut awhile ago-- give it a few years and everything will be moving in the direction that bangle paved

yes yes yes.....i dont even have an M3, i've never even ridden in one, but i am an e46 M3 freak, soon i will have one and conquer all....and i am deeply depressed with the look of the e92

but i do kinda like the 335i.....okay i'm done now

Bangle is an idiot. Cutting edge? Ahead of his time? If so, then why do toyota, hyundai, mazda and other products have many of the same "Bangle" lines?

The 5 series is truly gruesome from every angle. The 7 is just OK from every angle. The 6 looks good from certain angles and horrible from others. The e90 looks OK, and the e92 actually looks pretty good, but could have looked MUCH better.

Screw Bangle. I'm never going to give him a chance, or take the time to really examine his designs and consider how far ahead of their time they are. THE CARS ARE FUCKING UGLY. that's really all there is too it. I don't want my car to be designed for the future. I want a car that looks good when I buy it. I want something I can come out of the office everyday, since the day I buy and it and say GODDAMN, THAT IS ONE SEXY CAR. I've done that with my coupe since the day I brought it home. If I were to buy a new 3 series, it would most likely take me decades to become that passionate about the design of the car, since its supposedly the design of the future.

Face it, Bangle fucked up the entire lineup of BMW's. '02 was the last year that every single BMW looked gorgeous. the 7 was a full size sedan, but it looked just as sporting and clean as the E39 5. The E39 was the epitome of a sports sedan with tight, minimalistic lines that just made the car look good at every single angle. Both the M Roadster and M coupe were at the top of their production run at this time, with great color selections, retro yet understated looks, and the s54 engine. The 3 was just an awesome car. period. you could buy a base 325i sedan and still have it look like it is an exclusive car.

I miss those days when every car put out by BMW was perfect. oh well, I guess every car company goes through rough times for design... now is the time for BMW's turn

I'm a bimmer newbie, i have not owned any in the past but i'm looking to get one soon. Went to a dealer today to check out the 335i/M3/650i.

All i have to say is that i agree with the people who hate the new 3/5 series designs. The M3 and 6er were awesome. They didn't have the 335i but they did have the 328i. I was suprised, it looked like crap; it even had 19" rims but they didn't help. The rear end truly looks like an old civic/honda.

This worries me because i really did want an 08 M3. I really hope they work some magic because the current 335i looks way to fem compared to the current M3. I'm not sure flared fenders and a spolier will do it...

I hated all the newer BMW designs when i saw them online. Especially the E90 sedan. Then i saw one in person. I saw the line starting at the fender and arching all he way back to the rear. The car was alpine white and the line looked so damn beautiful. The way that line reflected light so that it gradually faded from the white of the car to the dark grey of the asphalt, was simply sculpture.

The only thing i CANNOT forgive is the flat dashboard. I need interiors slanted towards me.

IMO I like all of the new designs, granted they look like shit on paper, but once I saw all of them in person, I fell in love

x10
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

MALARKY.....the new designs suck especially the back

I know I've been let down because I look at the new Camry, and it seems more muscular than any of the new BMWs...IMO the new Camry is what the 5 should have looked like, with aggressive shoulders and stance. Instead of like a Hyundai.

I'm not a fan of the new designs. But I've noticed that quite a few car companies have been copying some of Bangle's design elements.

BMW's used to have a design which unified all of the cars in the BMW stable but at the same time differentiated it from other makes. The new designs are not nearly as unique.

And I always liked the understated design elements because the cars were so capable on the road. They knew they were great sports cars without having to try to prove it with a flashy design.

BMW isnt poor. Why dont they track down Pinninfarina?

If you look at the old IS300 headlights, body lines, etc. you will see very similar design styles implimented in every BMW series especially the 5. The slant nose is not BMW at all. Basically just saying that BMW are starting to look like japanese designed cars. Take a look at the is and then some BMW's.

http://www.lexus.com/models/is/index.html
http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/3/2006330isedan/default

http://www.lexus.com/models/gs/index.html
http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/5/530xisedan/default

just grabbed these pics off of the BMW and lex websites...
This is absolutely rediculous because BMW had the design first.
Look at the new LS, it is a 7 series with a mercedes front end. Are you going to tell me now that the new LS was out before the 2002 model 7 series?
crack whore...

Dont comment on the looks of the E92 until you see it in person. I can see the E46 in the E92.

The E92 M3 has the potential to be sick and stop all the haters in their tracks.

http://forum.e90fanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=805&d=1152730778

Japanese cars look like Bangle designs becuase they are copying the 3ser like they always do....duh

Jason

I want to know what everyone keeps saying about the new bmw's being ahead of their time. Wasn't this also said about the last generation 6 series and 8 series?..

It figures. I've been wanting a BMW 3 series for years and now that I can finally afford one they go and completely change the way the car looks.

I ended up just buying a new 2007 G35 Sedan. Looks better IMHO with close to the same performance.

It figures. I've been wanting a BMW 3 series for years and now that I can finally afford one they go and completely change the way the car looks.

I ended up just buying a new 2007 G35 Sedan. Looks better IMHO with close to the same performance.

Good move. I would have done the same

I love the look of the new BMWs. They all look great except the ass end of the 6 :(. I don't know what cars you guys are looking at but no BMW looks like an asian car. Asian cars copy BMW and MB all the time though(rather unsuccessfully). e92 > e46 styling wise imo. Not that the e46 M3 doesn't look badass, but methinks the e92 will look better.

@ the guy who bought the G35 over a 335i, why? Slower and plasticy interior. Harder to mod as well (Vishnu). Not what I would have done. Looks entirely generic as well.

I just got done reading this and eveyone has a few good points....its taken awhile for me to start liking the new 3-series and the new M3. I agree with those who dont like the rear/tail lights. I was driving the other day and I noticed that every series other than the 5-series/M5 does not have LEDs...is there any reason or am i just wrong...did BMW get lazy???

I love my E39s .. they are imho Timeless artworks... although the E60 M5 was growing on me when I was at the dealership the other day... but I think thats cause i knew there are 500 ponies under the hood.

These look like true BMWs to me lol

http://tweakers.net/ext/f/6735916b6a8580e5f54036dd6c5fd9d9/full.jpg

http://www.e90post.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=18661&stc=1&d=1142464693

http://www.e90post.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19426&stc=1&d=1143081935

http://www.e90post.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19548&stc=1&d=1143174688

http://www.e90post.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15275&stc=1&d=1139773465

You have to be nuts not to like what the new 3 series look like.They have all the BMW lines.In my opinion they are the best looking 3 series to date.

I will find a few e46 pics and post them side by side so you people can see how out dated the e46 is.Even the M3 lol

BMW has broken its records sales ever with the launch of the new 3 series and I think thats enough proof that there heading in the right direction.

The jap cars look like BMW because they copy them not BMW copying them.I see more 3 series on the roads now than ever.

a few more with an e46 thrown in too

http://www.tedescophoto.com/06/carshoot/group_03.JPG

http://www.tedescophoto.com/06/carshoot/group_04.JPG

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a93/EVOUTION4198/BEEMER005.jpg

just wait for the new m to come out and then we can see how agressive BMW will get with the lines.

right now the bone stock 3 seires makes e46 look like crap.(not the M)but the basic models

do you have pictures to compare the rears ?

dont have any on my comp....I found a sick pic of what the next M could look like

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=53275&stc=1&d=1166745541

what are you bangle haters thinking NOW lol this car looks sick

a few more with an e46 thrown in too

http://www.tedescophoto.com/06/carshoot/group_03.JPG

http://www.tedescophoto.com/06/carshoot/group_04.JPG

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a93/EVOUTION4198/BEEMER005.jpg

just wait for the new m to come out and then we can see how agressive BMW will get with the lines.

right now the bone stock 3 seires makes e46 look like crap.(not the M)but the basic models

What do you know a stock e92 looks as aggressive and poised as a modded e46.

They really screwed it up. BMW Sucks I hate anything new.

Bangle took part in designing the E46 M3 too... personally, I like all his new designs. They are just way ahead of their time. He must be doing something right are sales are still climbing.

Blech.

Bangle took part in designing the E46 M3 too... personally, I like all his new designs. They are just way ahead of their time. He must be doing something right are sales are still climbing.

Just because sales are climbing does not mean that it's a better or better looking design. Look at the F-150, they sell almost a million a year...does that mean that design looks better....i don't think so.

I don't like the exterior design of the new BMW's either. Althugh I have to admit that the M5 has grown on me. But then I look at the lines on the trunk, i don't like it so much any more.

But it's not just the exterior styling that is bothersome, it's the interior too. And you can't blame Bangle for that. That i-Drive is a the real deal killer for me on any new BMW i would be buyig. Why, BMW, Why???

I know why...it's the bottom line, it's money. It has ZILCH to do with making the ultimate driving machine. See, that's what more sales do for you. BMW has all but forgotten what things are important to the people that made them who they are. BMW is changing my friends.

If you look at the old IS300 headlights, body lines, etc. you will see very similar design styles implimented in every BMW series especially the 5.

Dude, you got it all backward, man. The japanese is the one who copy the bmw design, not the other way around. Case in point, look at the new Toyota Camry. Two years after Bangle designed 7er trunk, which everyone in the bimmer world is a critic for, Toyota came up with the same butt design for Camry. BMW is hardly a follower, more like a leader, from the design standpoint. They are the leader, and took the risk for it, when they came up with iDrive. Love or hate it, they're still the leader in my mind.

I know why...it's the bottom line, it's money. It has ZILCH to do with making the ultimate driving machine. See, that's what more sales do for you. BMW has all but forgotten what things are important to the people that made them who they are. BMW is changing my friends.


You could be right.

I mean they make pussy cars like the MZ4 coupe, a car which every american review stated as having to much oversteer. Then there is the SMG which everyone complains is to harsh. Between the 8500k rpm redlines, lightning quick downshifts, carbon fiber roofs, and f1 based engines its pretty clear BMW is all about the money.

The e90 series cars look kinda cool from the front (but busy and japanese-like, as well), OK from the side (when lowered w/ 20" wheels) and like shit from the rear.

I don't consider that a styling triumph.

The interior, although beautifully finished, is horrible in terms of shape/design. The center console is not even canted towards the driver.

These cars look bad inside and out. They drive great though.

The e90 series cars look kinda cool from the front (but busy and japanese-like, as well), OK from the side (when lowered w/ 20" wheels) and like shit from the rear.

I don't consider that a styling triumph.

The interior, although beautifully finished, is horrible in terms of shape/design. The center console is not even canted towards the driver.

These cars look bad inside and out. They drive great though.


Is the above opinoin or fact?

Care to critique the design and talk about it instead of calling it 'shit'. Things like 'horrible in terms of shape/design' are open ended statments describing almost nothing.

Best design critique I have read from you is 'The center console is not even canted towards the driver.' Which is both an observation, and an obvious opinoin of yours on the design. Sounds like your opinoin is that the center console should be directed at the driver.

We all know people think the design is 'bad' Lets get into thinking critical about the design, disecting it, and coming up with flaws. I think in the end we will find different people have different ideas about design. These ideas are formulated through our past experiences. This is called life.

The second you simply use the term 'bad' or 'shit' you are taking a leap from critical review to judgment. Overal design judgment normally based upon the yes or no questions of wether a given design meets certain sometimes non quantifiable goals.

There are very few people in the world who can look at a design and dismiss it as simply 'bad'. You either have reasons for not liking or jiving with a design or you admit that you dont understand why they designed it like that. Even the ugliest of cars had people behind them who really believed they were doing the right thing for some reason.

So lets come up with some real critical design stuff, and maybe what we feel are solutions.

IE. The area immediatly in front of the side mirrors where the pillar meets the hood/fender/door panel/window is abit funky. The lines dont really make sense to me. Maybe they will, or maybe I will realize they had no choice they did what they could based upon the design goals of the rest of the car.

Josh

Is the above opinoin or fact?

Care to critique the design and talk about it instead of calling it 'shit'. Things like 'horrible in terms of shape/design' are open ended statments describing almost nothing.

Josh

Fair enough. But I did not know this thread was a group forum design excercise. I thought we were all expressing our opinions. Aesthetic design is ALWAYS a subjective thing. One can smear cow dung on construction paper and SOMEBODY will declare it worthy art. At the same time, someone will peep a Salvador Dali and not get it. Who cares why?

Overall, it seems BMW's current styling method is: change - for the mere sake of change. If the line used to go up, we'll make it go down. If the panel used to be smooth/rounded, we'll create a crease. If it was convex, it will now be concave, etc., etc. The Bangle Butt trunks of the 7 & 6 are prime examples of this. Similarly, the X3 and Z4 suffer with the over-detailed arbitrarily creased and lined body panels. The bizarre "granny cat-eye glasses" lighting of the 5 series also has the same cheap and dirty approach to styling of: "lets see how we can make it different", instead of "better".

The front, while the best part of the e90/92, is too busy because it has too many lines that do not flow or that just stop. As a result, there is a lack of harmony and continuity and too much tension.

The rear seems to lack a comprehensive design idea. The tail lights have a seemingly arbitrary shape that does not harmonize with the shape of the rear of the car. Because of the overly dramatic "swoosh" side lines and the way they are carried into the rear, the rear of the car seems too narrow - especially compared to the bulbous front fenders. A sporting vehicle should, if anything, have a stance that at leasts gives the optical illusion of more width in the rear than the front, not the other way around. The new M3 has a wide front and narrow tail look which is unharmoneous and counter to traditional sportscar design.

Because of the e92's poor proportion (too long trunk), significant over-hangs (for BMW), high cowl, and overall large size of the car, it NEEDS 20" wheels to look aggressive and sporting from the side.

The interior design is similar to the exterior of the vehicle - too many lines and shapes that lack continuity and seem arbitrary. Nothing seems to flow, and what does flow (door panels maybe?), flows in what seems to be the "wrong" direction. The center dash sits straight-up and is not canted towards the driver (if it is, I could not tell). BMW has ALWAYS bragged about its center dashes being angled to the driver - and rightfully so, as it creates the appropriate "cockpit" feel for a sporting car and is functional. Further, the center dash does not flow into the console - instead it stops at the tranny tunnel where the console meets it in an abrupt 90 degree fashion. The interior design would be more suitable for a 7 series. I think in its effort to take the 3 series interior upscale, BMW made it too stiff/stodgy and not sporty.

Cars (inside and out) can look very modern and still flow and be organic. Perfect examples of this are Aston Martin's V8 and Audi's RS4 (although that audi front bumper design is a "miss"). Both of those cars designs concentrate on beautiful organic shapes, proportion and stance to create an aggressive and sporty-looking modern performance vehicle - they do not rely upon a bunch of arbitrary "flame-surfacing", lines, creases and other bizarre styling gimmicks to create interest.

Its the difference between a naturally beautiful girl who needs a modicum of make-up to look absolutely perfect, and a flawed yet "striking" girl who goes overboard on make-up and revealing/flashy clothes to get attention.

--- there ARE still edges to the vehicles, they just tend to flow all the way around the car--- remember how everyone was flipping out when the e36 came out??? BMW is always 10-15 years ahead of the cut-- look at the new camarys--- they look like the 5's that debut awhile ago-- give it a few years and everything will be moving in the direction that bangle paved

Call me retro, but I like the hard lines and boxy style of the E36... today, it seems as if everything is getting more and more rounded. Pretty soon we'll all be driving eggs on wheels with variations of manufacturer branding.

Fair enough. But I did not know this thread was a group forum design excercise. I thought we were all expressing our opinions. Aesthetic design is ALWAYS a subjective thing. One can smear cow dung on construction paper and SOMEBODY will declare it worthy art. At the same time, someone will peep a Salvador Dali and not get it. Who cares why?

Overall, it seems BMW's current styling method is: change - for the mere sake of change. If the line used to go up, we'll make it go down. If the panel used to be smooth/rounded, we'll create a crease. If it was convex, it will now be concave, etc., etc. The Bangle Butt trunks of the 7 & 6 are prime examples of this. Similarly, the X3 and Z4 suffer with the over-detailed arbitrarily creased and lined body panels. The bizarre "granny cat-eye glasses" lighting of the 5 series also has the same cheap and dirty approach to styling of: "lets see how we can make it different", instead of "better".

The front, while the best part of the e90/92, is too busy because it has too many lines that do not flow or that just stop. As a result, there is a lack of harmony and continuity and too much tension.

The rear seems to lack a comprehensive design idea. The tail lights have a seemingly arbitrary shape that does not harmonize with the shape of the rear of the car. Because of the overly dramatic "swoosh" side lines and the way they are carried into the rear, the rear of the car seems too narrow - especially compared to the bulbous front fenders. A sporting vehicle should, if anything, have a stance that at leasts gives the optical illusion of more width in the rear than the front, not the other way around. The new M3 has a wide front and narrow tail look which is unharmoneous and counter to traditional sportscar design.

Because of the e92's poor proportion (too long trunk), significant over-hangs (for BMW), high cowl, and overall large size of the car, it NEEDS 20" wheels to look aggressive and sporting from the side.

The interior design is similar to the exterior of the vehicle - too many lines and shapes that lack continuity and seem arbitrary. Nothing seems to flow, and what does flow (door panels maybe?), flows in what seems to be the "wrong" direction. The center dash sits straight-up and is not canted towards the driver (if it is, I could not tell). BMW has ALWAYS bragged about its center dashes being angled to the driver - and rightfully so, as it creates the appropriate "cockpit" feel for a sporting car and is functional. Further, the center dash does not flow into the console - instead it stops at the tranny tunnel where the console meets it in an abrupt 90 degree fashion. The interior design would be more suitable for a 7 series. I think in its effort to take the 3 series interior upscale, BMW made it too stiff/stodgy and not sporty.

Cars (inside and out) can look very modern and still flow and be organic. Perfect examples of this are Aston Martin's V8 and Audi's RS4 (although that audi front bumper design is a "miss"). Both of those cars designs concentrate on beautiful organic shapes, proportion and stance to create an aggressive and sporty-looking modern performance vehicle - they do not rely upon a bunch of arbitrary "flame-surfacing", lines, creases and other bizarre styling gimmicks to create interest.

Its the difference between a naturally beautiful girl who needs a modicum of make-up to look absolutely perfect, and a flawed yet "striking" girl who goes overboard on make-up and revealing/flashy clothes to get attention.

So those are your opinoins which I still believe you take to be fact and not opinoin. I agree with you that there are details of the X cars which I still do not understand, but I also know a designer has looked over that car for a few more hours than I ever will and I am sure he/she had intentions. What those are maybe some day I will know.

It still seems as though you are applying your opinoins of styling on the world with your comments about organic shapes. You like organic shapes I like mechanical, synthetic shapes... who is wrong? This is an example I am not really a mechanical synthetic guy, one of my favorite rides is an Alfa. I am just suggesting that maybe your opinoins about styling shouldnt be so 'firm'. Live with a design, look at it, eat it up before spitting it out. I am guessing at this point you feel you have really disected and come up with your opinoin. It sure seems like you didnt see what you wanted to see (organic styling) and then dismissed it and came up with reasons why it doesnt work.


I spend most of my time trying to understand the so called 'shit' which is smeared on paper. I find it more rewarding than classifying it..... as shit.


Josh

saw your proof of pics, i dont know about you, but i can tell euro from JDM. bmws in my opinion remind me of sharks,

I don't know if you know this or not but tiburon means shark in spanish.

Dude, you got it all backward, man. The japanese is the one who copy the bmw design, not the other way around. Case in point, look at the new Toyota Camry. Two years after Bangle designed 7er trunk, which everyone in the bimmer world is a critic for, Toyota came up with the same butt design for Camry. BMW is hardly a follower, more like a leader, from the design standpoint. They are the leader, and took the risk for it, when they came up with iDrive. Love or hate it, they're still the leader in my mind.
Like I always said, Lexis is BMW's little brother. Everytime BMW comes out with somthing it isn't more then a year later Lexis is like we have it too. Like Tip tronic trannys. Big thing in the M3's SMG2 year later lexis has it.

I believe Porsche came out with tiptronic first, and that's the only make where tiptronic is used. SMG is not tiptronic.

Like I always said, Lexis is BMW's little brother. Everytime BMW comes out with somthing it isn't more then a year later Lexis is like we have it too. Like Tip tronic trannys. Big thing in the M3's SMG2 year later lexis has it.

Hi.

You don't know what you're talking about.


Thank you.

I believe Porsche came out with tiptronic first, and that's the only make where tiptronic is used. SMG is not tiptronic.
I mean the paddle shifters on the steering wheel, don't know what SMG's you have been driving but the 03 M3 I drove had them.

P.S. I never said BMW invented it, I said that they had it in the M3's then a year later my friend bought an IS300 which had them.

P.SS. BMW had an SMG1 but it was never released in america. It was in the early E36's in Germany but it sucked, so they made the SMG2.. Food for thought.

IMO the reason why Bangle's designs are boosting the sells of BMWs is because they read "Look at me, I'm Superior!!". The design makes the car look bigger and more grandiose.
BMW always had great designs but before Bangle they used to reflect beauty and sportiness rather than superiority and grandiose. People used to look at BMW cars and love them, now they look at the car and think "the guy who drives it must be something" they get this message right away but they don't necessarily love the car itself.
IMO many people who never owned a BMW before are going to Bangle's BMWs just to show this kind of superiority and show-off, while lots of BMW consistent owners are feeling left behind. Of course this is not black and white, I mean BMWs are still beautiful and sporty but not as much as they used to be and they are way more Mercedes like (Grandiose and Superior) than they used to be.

Only bad thing Bangle's done - the rear of the E92. The rest is fine.