Would you consider NOS to be FI? discuss... thanks!

-jon

Voted no as NOS isnt pushing PSI through the intake. Its just making your fuel/air very hyper before its combusts.

really? ok. I was under the impression that you run the fuel line and the NOS line in the intake portion of the motor.....

I'm no expert, but common sense tells me N-O...

Yes, it is. It's poor man's turbo. :cool

Boris

ahhah thnaks.... boris and marc, i can always trust you for accurate info ;).

no

NOS is not forced induction (no positive pressure out of the manifold).

NHRA,NMRA all drag racing bodies lable it a power adder.

it is not forced induction. NOS would work exactly the same if the contents weren't under pressure. Only reason for the pressure is delivery.

Don

NOS= Temporary Power, Turbo= Permanent Power and besides NOS in my opinion is freaking dangerous. Ive seen a few cars catch fire from NOS lines.

no

NOS is not forced induction (no positive pressure out of the manifold).

NHRA,NMRA all drag racing bodies lable it a power adder.

Did some digging and you seem to be correct...it's not technically considered to be forced induction.

Here's a good definition too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrous

Boris

Technically , perhaps it isn't...
But there are countless books on "Forced Induction"....
And they break "FI" into 3 categories, SuperCharger, TurboCharger and Nitrous Oxide...

Everybody has an opinion, I feel it is:) .. Forcing 1200-1500 PSI N20 into your intake manifold or cylinders directly, with or without a gas mixture, seems to be "Forced Induction" to me... But Hey..what do I know?:)


100% agreed.

Technically , perhaps it isn't...
But there are countless books on "Forced Induction"....
And they break "FI" into 3 categories, SuperCharger, TurboCharger and Nitrous Oxide...

Everybody has an opinion, I feel it is:) .. Forcing 1200-1500 PSI N20 into your intake manifold or cylinders directly, with or without a gas mixture, seems to be "Forced Induction" to me... But Hey..what do I know?:)

I thought the same, but unfortunately you're not FORCING nitrous into the engine, and you're not generating any pressure (the 1100psi or whatever is the pressure of the liquid in the bottle).

Nitrous is sucked into the engine (not forced) just like air is, but at around 300C it seperates into Nitrogen and Oxygen it also has a cooling effect among other 'effects.'

Check the overview in the link I posted.

Boris

I'm amazed by this poll. Can we next consider nitromethane FI? I mean it's just an additive as well. Instead of injecting oxygen atoms into the intake charge you're just doing it through the fuel stream.

Forced induction means the AIR PRESSURE that is the intake charge is positive. Nitrous is under pressure just so it can be dispensed. The pressure has ZERO effect on HP.

Don

I thought the same, but unfortunately you're not FORCING nitrous into the engine, and you're not generating any pressure (the 1100psi or whatever is the pressure of the liquid in the bottle).

Nitrous is sucked into the engine (not forced) just like air is, but at around 300C it seperates into Nitrogen and Oxygen it also has a cooling effect among other 'effects.'

Check the overview in the link I posted.

Boris


Boris, cant it be said that the NOS is forced into the engine by reverse pressure or decompression of the bottle? I dont think nos is sucked in as much as it is forced in by decompression.

Boris, cant it be said that the NOS is forced into the engine by reverse pressure or decompression of the bottle? I dont think nos is sucked in as much as it is forced in by decompression.

Nope. Nitrous (not NOS, you ricer! ;)) is forced into your intake stream, but it can just as easily be forced into your air box, and doesn't have to generate any pressure. But it's NOT forced into the engine, it doesn't pressurize the manifold. Think of it like water injection.

I can't speak for "closed" systems (i.e. when you inject POST Turbo/SC into an already pressurized system) since I don't know enough about this.

Regardless of how you slice it, based on what I read, nitrous creates power by completely different means than pressure.

Boris

no

NOS is not forced induction (no positive pressure out of the manifold).

NHRA,NMRA all drag racing bodies lable it a power adder.

+3

I think there are two ways to go on this.

no2 does get more fuel into the engine correct?

but its not being forced in...

Forced induction means you are increasing the VE of the motor. Nitrous does not do that. Nitrous, unlike a PD SC or a turbo charger, does nothing for VE. It does increase the combustion efficency but that does not increase VE of an engine.

This would be no different than having pure liquid Oxygen and injecting it into the system. Except that liquid oxygen will help ignite combustible extremly easily.

Forced induction means you are increasing the VE of the motor. Nitrous does not do that. Nitrous, unlike a PD SC or a turbo charger, does nothing for VE. It does increase the combustion efficency but that does not increase VE of an engine.

This would be no different than having pure liquid Oxygen and injecting it into the system. Except that liquid oxygen will help ignite combustible extremly easily.

What does VE have to do with it? Hell I can port/polish a head and improve VE...does that mean I just put a turbo on it?

Forced induction means you have a POSITIVE pressure present somewhere in the induction system. Either before or after the device being used to generate it.

Don

It seems that a lot of you guys are getting FI and power adder confused. Unless a power adder can bring the manifold pressure above 1 atmosphere then it would be considered FI.

FK, I learned the hard way about this same situation. I was in Miami in my previously stock MC, competing in a dyno shoot out. I was ranked 1st in the NA catagory, even after a 350Z did its 1st pull. It was when he did his second pull that he sprayed a 100 shot and blew my record out of the water. So was it considered FI and did it place him in another catagory outside of NA...

http://www.368s.com/photos/photo001168_large.jpg
http://www.368s.com/photos/photo001169_large.jpg




Juker008

marc, im gonna agree with you again. As far as turbos and s/cs go, cant they also be considered "temporary" also because they arent ALWAYS producing positive boost or pressure into the manifold....

I don't believe the answer is merely a matter of opinion as some seem to suggest. Nitrous Oxide is certainly NOT a method of forced induction in the literal definition of the term.

Forced induction literally means that the fuel/air mixture is forced into the motor as opposed to being drawn in under atmospheric pressure. There is no way a Nitrous Oxide system can pressureize the manifold because it would simply back-flow out through the airbox if any positive pressure was achieved.

It may possibly be reducing vacuum at the manifold (in a NA car), but certainly not pressureizing it. Furthermore, I'm sure the ratio of Nitrous to intake air - in, say, a 50 shot system - is something on the order of 1/500 despite the high pressure of the bottle - so you would have to be running a serious amount of Nitrous to significantly effect the volume of air in the manifold at such a high flow rate (high RPMs).

The nozzles on the system are designed to control the flow of the Nitrous. The high pressure is merely for the sake of saving space/smaller bottle.

The way Nitrous Oxide makes power is by releasing free oxygen molicules under the intense heat and pressure of the combustion chamber - thus allowing more fuel to be burned efficiently. The gasoline is still the source of ENERGY for the combustion, the Notrous Oxide simply allows for more of it to burn completely.

Simply adding more fuel to a motor without compensating with more air will put you in a rich condition which actually causes a loss of power as many of us know.

This is why Nitrous is merely a POWER ADDER and not a form of forced induction.

my $0.02

Forced induction literally means that the fuel/air mixture is forced into the motor as opposed to being drawn in under atmospheric pressure.

Ummmm..... if im not mistaken, fuel and air IS forced into the motor. In a dry kit, the stock injectors are tuned to increase fuel and in a wet kit, an extra fuel line driven by a pump is added. On top of that, the nitrous is forced into the intake by decreasing the pressure in the bottle.

Ummmm..... if im not mistaken, fuel and air IS forced into the motor. In a dry kit, the stock injectors are tuned to increase fuel and in a wet kit, an extra fuel line driven by a pump is added. On top of that, the nitrous is forced into the intake by decreasing the pressure in the bottle.

Read my post again entirely... it will explain where you are mistaken.

If you can understand that the intake tract/system is an OPEN system in a NA car (with or without nitrous), you should have no confusion as to why nitrous is absolutely NOT making power through pressureization of the manifold. It is simply allowing for more fuel to be burned via creating an oxygen rich enviornment in the combustion chambers.

lets just agree to disagree....

You guys are so funny. :D
I think I read "N02" again.

In my opinion a cone filter can be FI because it gives pow3r. (duuuuur)
Most of you are clueless...

"is NOS considered FI"
That depends on who considers it so.
Clueless know-nothing ricers (yes)
or people w/ more commen sense.

If you want a fact, no, nitrous injection is not FI. :)

i guess im a ricer.....

[QUOTE=M3Romeo;Ive seen a few cars catch fire from NOS lines.[/QUOTE]

Nitrous doesn't burn.

Fuel (gasoline) burns.

Nitrous breaks down into nitrogen and oxygen. The additional oxygen from the nitrous allows additional fuel to be added and burned.