I'm a kill stories n00b and apparently I'm a supra n00b too.

I was driving westbound on I-70 on the way to Kansas City and spot a white supra (is the very rounded off body style mk2?). Its cruising in the right lane. As bored and clueless as I am I roll up along side and hang out for a bit, then drop it into 4 and take off ahead to see if he is up for driving.

I am no more than 50 feet in front of him when he pops out of his lane and into mine. In an instant he was behind me and in another he eclipsed my entire rear view. This thing is fast. Ridiculously fast.

I jump into the right lane to let him pass. He does, hesitating along side of me, possibly considering lining up but quickly deciding that a lowly n/a e36 m3 is not worth the race... I'll be given a show and than hes off to cruising again....

He takes off. I follow immediately and he picks up distance effortlessly. Before I know it I am at my speed limiter (what is it for e36 m3s anyway?) and he is still picking up speed. We slow down with traffic ahead and I give him thumbs up and a 'nice car' shout. The best I get from him is a nod. Understandable.....

A second view of his car from behind reveals a ginormous exhaust with a single massive pipe visible extending far under the car. The noises his car was making were obscene and enviable. We trade off leading some spirited cruising for a bit and he exits ~10 miles down.

What do I need to know about these supras? This obviously had a turbo.... an upgraded turbo maybe? Fill me in here......


Cliff notes: e36 m3 got killed by a supra before it even had a chance to race.

MKIV

Now you know, don't mess with a Supra ESPECIALLY on the highway.

MKIV Supra's have ENORMOUS potential to kill just about anything you put up against it. The car has a Beefy I-6 motor that when you put a gigantic single turbo on it, 600+ WHP is not uncommon at all. At the drag strip MKIV's are a little weird, they seem to run like 13 sec 1320's at like 160 MPH haha

supras are no joke, even with with stock twins

im sure its pretty hard to have a run in with a stock supra ... :help
they are sexy monsters :lol.
good death

supras are no joke, even with with stock twinsI second that!

Yea i think every hooked up supra these days runs at least 600hp+ :)

At the drag strip MKIV's are a little weird, they seem to run like 13 sec 1320's at like 160 MPH haha

no they don't

no they don't

It's an exageration obviously, but yes, yes they do.

Have you seen this?

Over 1200Hp at the wheels...The dyno got maxed out (http://www.bullseyepower.com/95mmsupra.wmv)

It's an exageration obviously, but yes, yes they do.


I second that.

A black one around here does like 12.60 @ 125!!! WTF??

I guess they dont launch well, or they dont run enough tire. Rear end will break from 500HP+ or something?

I had the pleasure of driving a 700rwhp Supra and although extremely fast (more than most could imagine), that thing didn't seem to get traction in ANY of the lower gears. It was pretty insane.

Most people don't realize what fast is until you've driven a car with that much power. I was hitting 140 in seconds.

I had the pleasure of driving a 700rwhp Supra and although extremely fast (more than most could imagine), that thing didn't seem to get traction in ANY of the lower gears. It was pretty insane.

Most people don't realize what fast is until you've driven a car with that much power. I was hitting 140 in seconds.


I drove a 570HP (to the ground) AWD eclipse, Pure insanity!

Have you seen this?

Over 1200Hp at the wheels...The dyno got maxed out (http://www.bullseyepower.com/95mmsupra.wmv)


:eyecrazy Where did they get that Turbocharger ? from a Catapillar D9 tractor or a kenworth ? its huge ! ( though it looks like it blew up on the third pull.

Highest HP Supra: 1521rwhp

Fastest full weight ones: in the 8's in the 1/4 mile

Supra rivals are Vipers and superbikes... don't even think about taking them

though it looks like it blew up on the third pull.

Yes. Not sure what that was. I was told that the BOV sheared off from its joint and flew off. But I do not know for sure.

Supras are a big no no. The engines take so well to mods just about every Supra that has been modded can easily put out 500 whp. The cars are extremely fast especially from a roll. The funny thing is to go look a shop that specializes in Supra tuning and see the size of the "streetable" turbos. They are huge. So no 600 whp is not uncommon at all in a Supra.

Supra rivals are Vipers and superbikes... don't even think about taking them

What if I didn't have a viper or a superbike? What if I had a regular bike? Or a car other than a viper? Could I hang with one of these "supra" things?

Don

Highest HP Supra: 1521rwhp

Fastest full weight ones: in the 8's in the 1/4 mile

Supra rivals are Vipers and superbikes... don't even think about taking them

Hey. Just thought of this. What happens if TWO SUPRA'S race? Will they both lose because neither is running against a "superbike" or a viper?

That's quite a delimma.:D

Don

Hey. Just thought of this. What happens if TWO SUPRA'S race? Will they both lose because neither is running against a "superbike" or a viper?

That's quite a delimma.:D

Don


Yea, I think they cancel each other out.

I second that.

A black one around here does like 12.60 @ 125!!! WTF??

I guess they dont launch well, or they dont run enough tire. Rear end will break from 500HP+ or something?

Thank you.

:eyecrazy Where did they get that Turbocharger ? from a Catapillar D9 tractor or a kenworth ? its huge ! ( though it looks like it blew up on the third pull.


Oh my that is the biggest turbo I have ever seen on a car or anything for that matter. Damm you would have to cut a big hole in the hood.:eyecrazy

Yea, I think they cancel each other out.

Thats how black holes form.

Oh my that is the biggest turbo I have ever seen on a car or anything for that matter. Damm you would have to cut a big hole in the hood.:eyecrazy

Then I am sure you have not seen the picture below.

BTW...My turbos are for sale in the classifieds. Here is the link (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6916321#post6916321). NO! Not the one pictured.



http://www.videodrome.de/pics/bigassturbo.jpg

[QUOTE=Ahmed303]Then I am sure you have not seen the picture below.

BTW...My turbos are for sale in the classifieds. Here is the link (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6916321#post6916321). NO! Not the one pictured.

QUOTE]

:eyecrazy :rofl

Supras have by far the best aftermarket support of any 3.0L FI car ... they are as fast as the money you spend on em. :)

Coming from the factory with 15G class turbos and 550cc class injectors gives them an easy 400-500rwhp just from BPU mods - third and fourth gears are geared just right for serious highway pulls, RWD prevents drivetrain loss but leads to many 500rwhp MKIV's (more accurately .. their owners :P) stuck in the low 13's.

^cool.... thanks... I had a highway encounter with a supra, It wasnt gnarly fast, but I had no trouble keeping pace and then some...

I drove a 570HP (to the ground) AWD eclipse, Pure insanity!
That thing wouldn't have trouble getting get 1/4 times. Probably threatoning 9s if not in 'em.

I ran with a stock tt supra and I pulled on him. I think the weight had a huge effect because my car is pretty much stock as well

Thats how black holes form.

:lol

Supras are so nasty. Have a fun time finding a low mileage turbo manual that hasnt been molested.

But so worth it.

Widebody Supra = teh sex especially from Top Secret. Schwing!

A stock automatic twin turbo supra from a roll are slow.

you guys are all wrong
1. EVERY car can be made fast! shit - i saw a video of a Geo Metro (that's right, the biggest POS car ever made!) running 9.4 second 1/4 mi. It's all about how much money you can put into the car.
2. You are talking about the car that came from the factory with a turbo. There are easy upgrades you can do to a car to get it into high HP. Look at srt-4, 3000gt, 300zx, mustang cobra, etc. All these cars can be VERY fast with a tiny bit of money in them. Especially cobras - these cars are beastly! I'm sure with the amount of $$$ you put in Supras, you can get a nice Cobra that will DESTROY! any supra out there!
3. The only good thing about a supra is the fact that they look nice, already turboed and keep their value. Ohh, and also their engines are nice and all, but i'd take a small block over it. Small blocks/Big blocks are beastly!

I ran with a stock tt supra and I pulled on him. I think the weight had a huge effect because my car is pretty much stock as well


It was either an auto on the roll or a N/A supra (or that TT driver sucks and should give up his right to the car) because stock TT 6-spd supra's can run low 13's near 110 trap. In other words, stock TT supra's can hang and beat E46 M3's... so E36's are hardly trouble.

Bahh... Supra Shmupra.... my friends Civic will eat it alive :embarrasm

Yeah, there are some trophy Supras out there, but it doesn't mean they're all monsters. Many are just BPU+++ or whatver.

Boris

Bahh... Supra Shmupra....
:rofl2 :rofl2 :lol :lol

Many are just BPU+++ or whatver. Boris

this is so true. you'll find all the hot, big-turbo'd supras at shows and stuff. but for the most part the ones you see on the road are either NA or still with stock twins. I run into very few single-turbos still (I lived in CA up til '05 before you jump on me for KC, although I seem to see SUpras more often here for whatever reason).
BTW, I don't know why Supras get such a bad rap for launching. Even though I rarely do it, I have a much easier time launching and getting traction with mine better than with my M3.
But then again with 285 tires you would think so. I beat my 1/4 time of my M3 (when it was 410whp, and I had 6-8 passes or so) with just my first pass with the Supra with 25whp (and 4mph) less. :dunno
However, if we're just talking about 800+whp Supras, well the same traction loss will happen to an 800whp M3.
Problem is practically none of us are there with our BMWs


...so we knock the Supras. haha, just kiddin' :D

I ran with a stock tt supra and I pulled on him. I think the weight had a huge effect because my car is pretty much stock as well

BS or he was having serious boost leak issues. Auto BPUs (note: no '+') are well capable of pulling on stock '03 Cobras, which I HIGHLY doubt your near-stock M3 can hang with.

A stock automatic twin turbo supra from a roll are slow.

Wrong.

That thing wouldn't have trouble getting get 1/4 times. Probably threatoning 9s if not in 'em.


yup, all I remeber about that car is like my face hurting from the accelration :)

The wastegate was SO LOUD it was hurting my heart :(

3rd gear in that car felt like 1st gear in my supercharged M

BS or he was having serious boost leak issues. Auto BPUs (note: no '+') are well capable of pulling on stock '03 Cobras, which I HIGHLY doubt your near-stock M3 can hang with.



Wrong.

Yea I thought I saw a TT AUTO supra hit a 10 on street tires? It was a video running around the net.

you guys are all wrong
1. EVERY car can be made fast! shit - i saw a video of a Geo Metro (that's right, the biggest POS car ever made!) running 9.4 second 1/4 mi. It's all about how much money you can put into the car.
2. You are talking about the car that came from the factory with a turbo. There are easy upgrades you can do to a car to get it into high HP. Look at srt-4, 3000gt, 300zx, mustang cobra, etc. All these cars can be VERY fast with a tiny bit of money in them. Especially cobras - these cars are beastly! I'm sure with the amount of $$$ you put in Supras, you can get a nice Cobra that will DESTROY! any supra out there!
3. The only good thing about a supra is the fact that they look nice, already turboed and keep their value. Ohh, and also their engines are nice and all, but i'd take a small block over it. Small blocks/Big blocks are beastly!

ALL of those things listed are the ONLY good things? That sounds like a decent list of GOOD things :)

I think with the age and way overpricing of the supra I would take a cobra over it in a second :buttrock

you guys are all wrong
1. EVERY car can be made fast! shit - i saw a video of a Geo Metro (that's right, the biggest POS car ever made!) running 9.4 second 1/4 mi. It's all about how much money you can put into the car.
2. You are talking about the car that came from the factory with a turbo. There are easy upgrades you can do to a car to get it into high HP. Look at srt-4, 3000gt, 300zx, mustang cobra, etc. All these cars can be VERY fast with a tiny bit of money in them. Especially cobras - these cars are beastly! I'm sure with the amount of $$$ you put in Supras, you can get a nice Cobra that will DESTROY! any supra out there!
3. The only good thing about a supra is the fact that they look nice, already turboed and keep their value. Ohh, and also their engines are nice and all, but i'd take a small block over it. Small blocks/Big blocks are beastly!
This is very true, a local guy here has a mustang that on low boost (turbo'd) he makes 670rwhp...medium boost is around 900ish and high..well thats just a joke... It rapes alot of supras from what I have heard. I'd rather have the supra for looks.

SRT-4- www.stillaneon.com (http://www.stillaneon.com) -gay
3000GT-VR4 is badass
Mustang Cobra- Lacking class, but I'd still drive one


Anything can be made to be fast, but there is no denying that the Supra is a fuckin monster and with just BPU and ridiculous with major work. Not to mention the MKIV is SEXY as shit.

I saw a Supra Turbo today, but I couldn't tell if he had any mods or anything. It sounded beastly though.

A great condition Supra w/ low mileage can sell for $30k+ still - a nearly new conditioned one have sold over $50k before.

What other car can have 100k miles, be over 10 years old, and still cost $20k+ when it MSRP'd at just over double that price?

Supra's are dirt cheap to make fast. Traction wise, they are easier than the M3 of course due to also being able to take much much larger tires.

Auto Supra's are used for faster drag times w/ the use of powerglides for instant. THe 6-speed tranny on the Supra is rock solid also - talk about handling 1000+ rwhp. And the block? Absolutely amazing to hold 800+ rwhp, record being over 1000 rwhp on the stock block. THe brakes? It was rated the best braking car ntil the Carrera GT came out...

It was just a highly overengineered car and its stood the test of time.

you guys are all wrong
1. EVERY car can be made fast! shit - i saw a video of a Geo Metro (that's right, the biggest POS car ever made!) running 9.4 second 1/4 mi. It's all about how much money you can put into the car.
2. You are talking about the car that came from the factory with a turbo. There are easy upgrades you can do to a car to get it into high HP. Look at srt-4, 3000gt, 300zx, mustang cobra, etc. All these cars can be VERY fast with a tiny bit of money in them. Especially cobras - these cars are beastly! I'm sure with the amount of $$$ you put in Supras, you can get a nice Cobra that will DESTROY! any supra out there!
3. The only good thing about a supra is the fact that they look nice, already turboed and keep their value. Ohh, and also their engines are nice and all, but i'd take a small block over it. Small blocks/Big blocks are beastly!

Find me some videos of streetable Cobras running against Hyabusa's from a roll. The Supra is without a doubt the best platform of the cars you listed for making big HP reliably. You go over 600hp in Cobra and you're looking at serious broken pieces.

But sure, you can spend enough money on anything and get big HP but Mustangs are Supras are Apples to Oranges. Some of the top "street legal" drag cars will be Mustangs, but they are full race prepped, on slicks making the same hp as the streetable Supras...

You will NOT see SRT-4s, 300Zs and 3000GTs running under 10sec 1/4s. The Supra and Mustang, yes.

It's an exageration obviously, but yes, yes they do.

it would be the result of a bad driver or high hp on street tires.

i drove a stock supra tt le automatic with 22k miles. looked awesome and sounded the same, but i was honestly a bit let down with its 0-60 butt dyno. i expected it to be alot better than my 328 and i really couldnt feel much of a difference. also drove it for about an hour and a half up and down a mountain, on some longer, faster roads. seemed to have a bit more oomph than my car at such speeds (60-80), but my aunt was in the car so i couldnt really let it rip. steering seemed heavy with little feedback too. turbo sounded amazing though. wouldnt turn down the opportunity to own one.

Supras are so overrated..I still like Supras but its starting to turn like Hondas where almost everyone has it around the block & everyone throws same SP-71, T55, T78 single turbo setup....Supars are only main for drag cars & just the term we call "DYNO QUEENS"...Dana Westover is actually holding all time record right now with just his TH400 transmission & his T88H single turbo kit & lots more goodies besides the other guys.

Find me some videos of streetable Cobras running against Hyabusa's from a roll. The Supra is without a doubt the best platform of the cars you listed for making big HP reliably. You go over 600hp in Cobra and you're looking at serious broken pieces.

But sure, you can spend enough money on anything and get big HP but Mustangs are Supras are Apples to Oranges. Some of the top "street legal" drag cars will be Mustangs, but they are full race prepped, on slicks making the same hp as the streetable Supras...

You will NOT see SRT-4s, 300Zs and 3000GTs running under 10sec 1/4s. The Supra and Mustang, yes.


Actually there is a few VR4 3000GT's in west coast that are in low 10 sec range...It's not hard to get those monsters in 10s especially with simple turbo upgrade & few more goodies & easy 11-12s...

Yea I thought I saw a TT AUTO supra hit a 10 on street tires? It was a video running around the net.


I'm sure it wasn't a regular automatic Supra that ran that 10 secs if its built BPU++ Supras...Its probably got TH400 transmission swap with is a 3sp GM tranny that pretty much all your 7-9 sec Supra guys are running except Ryan Woon which is worlds fastest 6sp supra.

I saw a Supra Turbo today, but I couldn't tell if he had any mods or anything. It sounded beastly though.

Open your window of your car & say can you take off for me & when you hear a pretty long & massive turbo spool then you'll know for a fact he's in pretty good shape but go on www.supraforums.com & just listen to most of supra trolls that troll around & say oh i beat a R6, R1 woopty do easy money on a supra = eating bikes all day, wooty doo..

I'm still confused as to why anyone would want to race a ricer, be it supra, eclipse, RX-7, or civic. if you were 'winning,' I'd be more concerned the fool in the other car would either try something profoundly stupid in traffic to save pride/face/whatever, or just hit the spray.:rolleyes

I'm still confused as to why anyone would want to race a ricer, be it supra, eclipse, RX-7, or civic. if you were 'winning,' I'd be more concerned the fool in the other car would either try something profoundly stupid in traffic to save pride/face/whatever, or just hit the spray.:rolleyes

How old are you?

How old are you?

27 and I have far better things to do with my time and nothing to prove to anyone (besides a boss who won't care that I lost or trounced a ricebucket). *shrug* Would it have made you feel better if I said 58?

*shrug* Would it have made you feel better if I said 58?

Not really. You still sound like an idiot either way.

You're not deterring street racing, just against 'ricers'. I agree, but you paint a broad picture that carries Japanese cars only, with a stereotype included. This is quite narrow-minded, since there are a few BMW ricers our there, and quite a few mature Japanese car owners.

Hell, some of the worst losers I have encountered drive either a BMW or a Domestic.

I'm still confused as to why anyone would want to race a ricer, be it supra, eclipse, RX-7, or civic. if you were 'winning,' I'd be more concerned the fool in the other car would either try something profoundly stupid in traffic to save pride/face/whatever, or just hit the spray.:rolleyes

Define "ricer"...

hmm.. well my definition of a ricer would be the guy that doesn't take time to learn his car and just purchases the cool windshield squirter LED's cause they make the car gain about 5 hp. or the guy that buys the cheapest most inexpensive stuff and slaps it together without any thought on what it would look like after. It doesn't really matter if its a japanese car or domestic. hardly see any euro's riced out.. but that doesn't mean that they aren't out there. :shifty

Not really. You still sound like an idiot either way.

You're not deterring street racing, just against 'ricers'. I agree, but you paint a broad picture that carries Japanese cars only, with a stereotype included. This is quite narrow-minded, since there are a few BMW ricers our there, and quite a few mature Japanese car owners.

.

I'm sorry for masquerading as a savant with my username.;)

'ricer' for me simply means a car manufactured by one of the big 'Japanese' manufacturers (let's not digress as to location of assembly or nationality of corporate parent): Honda, Toyota, Nissan, and Mazda. I realize 'rice' to just about everyone else includes wooden 'spoilers' on '78 Oldsmobiles, Cobra badges on V6 mustangs, and other poorly chosen and executed modifications, I just didn't explain where I was coming from...sorry.:(

Stereotypes aside and bucking the entire reasoning behind this particular subforum, I personally see no reason to ever street race one of these cars unless I owned one. I'll stick to Audis, fellow BMWs, etc. I guess I'm a street-racing snob, and that I can certainly live with.

Either way, this thread renewed some of my early interest in the Supra TT and I learned a little, so thanks for the info.

Supras are so nasty. Have a fun time finding a low mileage turbo manual that hasnt been molested.

But so worth it.

Widebody Supra = teh sex especially from Top Secret. Schwing!
i found a low mileage, 6-speed, unmolested, original mile 1994 TT targa a few months ago! i have since then molested it of course :D . i hope to be BPU for the Lexus/Toyota Mega Meet in south FL on the 15th/16th on this month.

anyways, here's proof that not all Supra owners have tuned their cars to insanity. i'll be one of those in the BPU category for a while, hoping to add +'s as time and money permit. but hey, i can live w/ a Ferrari killer for a while :devillook

i found a low mileage, 6-speed, unmolested, original mile 1994 TT targa a few months ago! i have since then molested it of course :D . i hope to be BPU for the Lexus/Toyota Mega Meet in south FL on the 15th/16th on this month.

anyways, here's proof that not all Supra owners have tuned their cars to insanity. i'll be one of those in the BPU category for a while, hoping to add +'s as time and money permit. but hey, i can live w/ a Ferrari killer for a while :devillook

How low mileage and how much did you pay?

Jealous.

As for the Top Secret Supra that I mentioned, for those not in the know....
http://www.topsecretjpn.com/products/jza802.jpg
http://www.topsecretjpn.com/products/jza801.jpg
http://www.topsecretjpn.com/wbsupra3.jpg

Damn that is one impressive engine bay!

Oh yeah, forgot to mention, its a 4 BANGER!

I still don't think that Supra's are the automotive God's that everyone here (except for a few) seem to say they are. I live down the block from Sound Performance, who used to have the fastest 1/4mi supra time a couple of years back before the Titan supra. They are great cars, and I love Toyota, but for the money, you can make a DSM just as quick, if not faster and still have some money to spend. Granted DSM's have little or no style and the Supra (because of rarity?) looks hot, speed isn't the only thing that matters here. Thats why I bought my E36 M3 instead of a 92 Honda with a B20. My 2 cents.

Oh yeah, forgot to mention, its a 4 BANGER!

I remember reading about that in Super Street back in high school. What was the reason again? higher top speed or something?

SRT-4- www.stillaneon.com (http://www.stillaneon.com) -gay
3000GT-VR4 is badass
Mustang Cobra- Lacking class, but I'd still drive one



What a hater, and whats worse is the only car you gave props to, the VR4, is known to be a heavy, unatheletic pig, thats unreliable.

How low mileage and how much did you pay?

Jealous.
37k mi, $29k out the door (tax, tag, and title)...previously driven by a doctor's wife :D .


I still don't think that Supra's are the automotive God's that everyone here (except for a few) seem to say they are. I live down the block from Sound Performance, who used to have the fastest 1/4mi supra time a couple of years back before the Titan supra. They are great cars, and I love Toyota, but for the money, you can make a DSM just as quick, if not faster and still have some money to spend. Granted DSM's have little or no style and the Supra (because of rarity?) looks hot, speed isn't the only thing that matters here. Thats why I bought my E36 M3 instead of a 92 Honda with a B20. My 2 cents.
again, and someone already mentioned this, but its not that the 2JZ-GTE can do things no other motor can. rather its that the 2JZ-GTE does it reliably. the difference between a 700whp Supra and a 700whp DSM is that the Supra will spend most of its time on the streets...the DSM will spend most of its time on a lift. and what it takes to make a DSM with that kind of power reliable, it will cost you that extra money you have left over after making a DSM "Supra" fast. don't get me wrong, i would love to have a low mileage GSX or GST to play with (as you stated, they can be made insanely fast). however the 4G63 just isn't as bulletproof as the 2JZ. if i had a stock Lancer EVO IX and a stock Supra TT, i think maintenance and repair costs would be higher w/ the EVO, and that margin would only grow with the more power i chose to make with either car.

37k mi, $29k out the door (tax, tag, and title)...previously driven by a doctor's wife :D .
.
Nice pick up! Please say its stick!

Damn that is one impressive engine bay!
btw, notice that the motor is infact something other than the fabled 2JZ-GTE Supra TT powerplant. i believe the motor in the Top Secret car is the 3S-GTE (which i think is the motor from the Celica GT-4 and MR-2 Turbo, but don't quote me on that).

Nice pick up! Please say its stick!
yes, 6-speed Getrag

37k mi, $29k out the door (tax, tag, and title)...previously driven by a doctor's wife :D .



again, and someone already mentioned this, but its not that the 2JZ-GTE can do things no other motor can. rather its that the 2JZ-GTE does it reliably. the difference between a 700whp Supra and a 700whp DSM is that the Supra will spend most of its time on the streets...the DSM will spend most of its time on a lift. and what it takes to make a DSM with that kind of power reliable, it will cost you that extra money you have left over after making a DSM "Supra" fast. don't get me wrong, i would love to have a low mileage GSX or GST to play with (as you stated, they can be made insanely fast). however the 4G63 just isn't as bulletproof as the 2JZ. if i had a stock Lancer EVO IX and a stock Supra TT, i think maintenance and repair costs would be higher w/ the EVO, and that margin would only grow with the more power i chose to make with either car.

That is true, good points. However, I've seen a few DSM's making good power serving as DD's. I agree that the 4G63 isn't as bulletproof, but with a 6 bolt, it can be pretty strong.


And whoever said the 3000GT Vr-4 is heavy... That would be a perfect example of the pot calling the kettle black. The Supra is no lightweight. And as far as I've seen, the 3000Gt VR-4 is very athletic and also as reliable as I'd expect it to be. My best friend has one, and the driving feel, along with power, style ect... rivals that of my M.

That is true, good points. However, I've seen a few DSM's making good power serving as DD's. I agree that the 4G63 isn't as bulletproof, but with a 6 bolt, it can be pretty strong.


And whoever said the 3000GT Vr-4 is heavy... That would be a perfect example of the pot calling the kettle black. The Supra is no lightweight. And as far as I've seen, the 3000Gt VR-4 is very athletic and also as reliable as I'd expect it to be. My best friend has one, and the driving feel, along with power, style ect... rivals that of my M.


Keep in mind that the engine bay of a stealth r/t or a vr-4 is a complete clusterfuck...the 2jz in the supra is much easier to work on, more space. Dont forget all the other things that will go wrong with the mitsu, poorly built as they were, while the toyota is just that, a toyota, and you can expect nothing less than stellar build quality.

Keep in mind that the engine bay of a stealth r/t or a vr-4 is a complete clusterfuck...the 2jz in the supra is much easier to work on, more space. Dont forget all the other things that will go wrong with the mitsu, poorly built as they were, while the toyota is just that, a toyota, and you can expect nothing less than stellar build quality.


Lol :lol . Drop a wrench under the hood of a 3000GT... kill yourself cause youre never gonna find it. Trying to change spark plugs... Kill yourself. Same thing with the 300Zx. God bless I-6's. :D

However, I don't think that the 3000GT's were poorly built, but some things do suck. The adjustable suspension settings suck and break often, but if you remove things like that, the 3000GT wouldn't be the "pig" that you say it is.

And whoever said the 3000GT Vr-4 is heavy... That would be a perfect example of the pot calling the kettle black. The Supra is no lightweight. And as far as I've seen, the 3000Gt VR-4 is very athletic and also as reliable as I'd expect it to be. My best friend has one, and the driving feel, along with power, style ect... rivals that of my M.
actually whoever said it is right. that is not to say that you are wrong...a stock MKIV Supra TT targa weighs in at a very hefty 3450lbs (3415lbs for the hardtop). however, the 3000GT VR-4 weighs in very close to 4000lbs. the Supra is almost 500lbs lighter. that is more than a significant differece in weight, and that is why a stock VR-4 is so much slower than a stock Supra. mod it however, and it responds similarly to a Supra (i.e. you could have a beast before you know it). at 600+whp, a VR-4 probably feels just as light as a Supra. but then again, probably any 4000lb car will feel lighter than it really is if its making that much power.

PS - i don't know specifically what makes the VR-4 so heavy, but i do know that its all wheel drive system takes a hefty toll on weight.

Lol :lol . Drop a wrench under the hood of a 3000GT... kill yourself cause you're never gonna find it. Trying to change spark plugs... Kill yourself. Same thing with the 300Zx. God bless I-6's. :D

However, I don't think that the 3000GT's were poorly built, but some things do suck. The adjustable suspension settings suck and break often, but if you remove things like that, the 3000GT wouldn't be the "pig" that you say it is.


I never said it was a pig. Just a piece of shit like its little brother eclipse and talon.

Fast, yeah. But it is poorly built and not holding resale value worth a shit because they made a relatively large amount in comparison to the supra.

actually whoever said it is right. that is not to say that you are wrong...a stock MKIV Supra TT targa weighs in at a very hefty 3450lbs (3415lbs for the hardtop). however, the 3000GT VR-4 weighs in very close to 4000lbs. the Supra is almost 500lbs lighter. that is more than a significant differece in weight, and that is why a stock VR-4 is so much slower than a stock Supra. mod it however, and it responds similarly to a Supra (i.e. you could have a beast before you know it). at 600+whp, a VR-4 probably feels just as light as a Supra. but then again, probably any 4000lb car will feel lighter than it really is if its making that much power.

PS - i don't know specifically what makes the VR-4 so heavy, but i do know that its all wheel drive system takes a hefty toll on weight.

I went for a ride in my friends VR-4 a couple of nights ago, I don't have his mod list, but he was making about 475 to the wheels. It felt like a monster. By upgrading the tiny tiny tiny turbos that came stock on the 3000, the power increases significantly. The gearing is great and the 3000 is also a highway car (gran tourer).

Dirty E30, I disagree that these cars, like the eclipse and the talon are "pieces of shit." I think that they are also great cars, and when properly maintained and built, they are amazing machines.

I went for a ride in my friends VR-4 a couple of nights ago, I don't have his mod list, but he was making about 475 to the wheels. It felt like a monster. By upgrading the tiny tiny tiny turbos that came stock on the 3000, the power increases significantly. The gearing is great and the 3000 is also a highway car (gran tourer).

haha i was just using 600+whp to get the point about weight across. but 475whp is still an amazing amount of power, even some supercars struggle to put that # to the ground. and you're talking about an AWD car, so that's probably in the neighborhood of 630+/- bhp. i'd say that's plenty of power to make you forget that you're actually hauling around a 4000lb vehicle. it will be a while before i see that kind of power in the Supra...unless i get a generous raise soon haha...

Supras are so overrated.How are they overrated?:confused

Lol. Its good talking to you. Its good to talk to a Supra guy thats not a dick. But thats OT. Meh bad.

37k mi, $29k out the door (tax, tag, and title)...previously driven by a doctor's wife :D .



again, and someone already mentioned this, but its not that the 2JZ-GTE can do things no other motor can. rather its that the 2JZ-GTE does it reliably. the difference between a 700whp Supra and a 700whp DSM is that the Supra will spend most of its time on the streets...the DSM will spend most of its time on a lift. and what it takes to make a DSM with that kind of power reliable, it will cost you that extra money you have left over after making a DSM "Supra" fast. don't get me wrong, i would love to have a low mileage GSX or GST to play with (as you stated, they can be made insanely fast). however the 4G63 just isn't as bulletproof as the 2JZ. if i had a stock Lancer EVO IX and a stock Supra TT, i think maintenance and repair costs would be higher w/ the EVO, and that margin would only grow with the more power i chose to make with either car.I hate to say it but there's alot of truth in your post.;) Especially at 700whp.

That is true, good points. However, I've seen a few DSM's making good power serving as DD's. I agree that the 4G63 isn't as bulletproof, but with a 6 bolt, it can be pretty strong.


And whoever said the 3000GT Vr-4 is heavy... That would be a perfect example of the pot calling the kettle black. The Supra is no lightweight. And as far as I've seen, the 3000Gt VR-4 is very athletic and also as reliable as I'd expect it to be. My best friend has one, and the driving feel, along with power, style ect... rivals that of my M.I my opinion the 300gtVr4 is a big and not a favorie car to race.You have to spend tons of money and do lots of wrk too make them run 11's.Give me the Supra or an EVO any day!Not to mention my DSM.;)

I never said it was a pig. Just a piece of shit like its little brother eclipse and talon.

Fast, yeah. But it is poorly built and not holding resale value worth a shit because they made a relatively large amount in comparison to the supra.:nono Hello,the 3000GTVR4 is built way better than a DSM.Plus remember the 3000GT was built in Japan just like the Supra.DSM'S were built in "Guess where"!The quality build of the 3kG is entirely different in comparison and quite comparable to the Supra.You need to do a lil research b4 you make such blanket comments.DSM's are'nt related to the 3000gt.Try EVO 1,2,3,4!Hello!


PS: I'm not that impressed with the build quality of my 1999 E36M3 especially compared to my AMG! Do you wanna know how many times just recently I had to change busted RSM's and a strut tower and the car has only 40k miles on it.Thank God for BMW quality!My BMW may handle and be more fun to drive on the track compared to my AMG but I tell you the build quality in my M3 does'nt come close.So perhaps the DSM's and the 3 series cars are related. Jeez!

again, and someone already mentioned this, but its not that the 2JZ-GTE can do things no other motor can. rather its that the 2JZ-GTE does it reliably. the difference between a 700whp Supra and a 700whp DSM is that the Supra will spend most of its time on the streets...the DSM will spend most of its time on a lift. and what it takes to make a DSM with that kind of power reliable, it will cost you that extra money you have left over after making a DSM "Supra" fast. don't get me wrong, i would love to have a low mileage GSX or GST to play with (as you stated, they can be made insanely fast). however the 4G63 just isn't as bulletproof as the 2JZ. if i had a stock Lancer EVO IX and a stock Supra TT, i think maintenance and repair costs would be higher w/ the EVO, and that margin would only grow with the more power i chose to make with either car.

One thing you left out is that the Supra is a 3-liter I6 and the Eclipse has a 2L I4. Yes, when you pump the same amount of power out of a 33% smaller powerplant (or 50% larger depending on how you want to look at it) it's no wonder that the I4 will wear/destruct sooner.

By the way, I doubt most 700rwhp Supra's (however many there are) spend too much time on the streets.

Boris

:nono Hello,the 3000GTVR4 is built way better than a DSM.Plus remember the 3000GT was built in Japan just like the Supra.DSM'S were built in "Guess where"!The quality build of the 3kG is entirely different in comparison and quite comparable to the Supra.You need to do a lil research b4 you make such blanket comments.DSM's are'nt related to the 3000gt.Try EVO 1,2,3,4!Hello!


PS: I'm not that impressed with the build quality of my 1999 E36M3 especially compared to my AMG! Do you wanna know how many times just recently I had to change busted RSM's and a strut tower and the car has only 40k miles on it.Thank God for BMW quality!My BMW may handle and be more fun to drive on the track compared to my AMG but I tell you the build quality in my M3 does'nt come close.So perhaps the DSM's and the 3 series cars are related. Jeez!

I wasn't saying the source of the DSMs and 3kgt are the same....but from family and friend's experience with mitsubishi, I am a bit biased when I say I have not ridden in a single mitsu where I was impressed with the build quality.
Others may have had better luck. But what I said was in no way a "blanket comment."

Either way, yes they are fast cars, but Toyota is one of the most reliable manufacturers in the world. They have been for a while, and that says A LOT.

Either way, yes they are fast cars, but Toyota is one of the most reliable manufacturers in the world. They have been for a while, and that says A LOT.

Honda is more so :)

Boris

Honda is more so :)

Boris


Yes but Honda has not built a turbocharged monster to sell the general public. In terms of cherry cars.....well the NSX :redspot

By the way, I doubt most 700rwhp Supra's (however many there are) spend too much time on the streets.

Most 700whp supras are street cars, so I would tend to believe that they spend most of their time on the street.

Even the 1000+ whp Supra's are often found on the streets...

I would think that most Supras with that much HP would just be dyno queens.

I would think that most Supras with that much HP would just be dyno queens.

The beauty of turbo is that streetable power (with the right EBC) is just a dial knob away. Most 700-1000WHP Supras cruise at about 400 to 600WHP, especially since daily driving requires piss-gas.

One thing you left out is that the Supra is a 3-liter I6 and the Eclipse has a 2L I4. Yes, when you pump the same amount of power out of a 33% smaller powerplant (or 50% larger depending on how you want to look at it) it's no wonder that the I4 will wear/destruct sooner.
my point is that regardless of what motor you compare it to, the stock 2JZ block typically makes the most power RELIABLY. take the S52B32 (or S50 or M50 or whatever), which is more similar to the 2JZ than a 4G63, for argument's sake. and we'll lower the power goal to make things a bit more realistic, say 550whp. a 2JZ-GTE does this on stock internals, and those internals still have room to be pushed. the M3 motor would probably already have needed a build before it even saw 550whp. a friend of mine who used to go by "icemann633" on these boards owned a Dakar Yellow 95 M3 boosted to 550+whp, courtesy of AA. his car was built to high heaven in order to support that kind of power. granted, this all makes sense...these M motors were intended to be N/A monsters, not F/I fed monsters, and so naturally BMW trimmed the production budget accordingly and invested in internals that weren't up to the task of supports these gobs of power and torque.

and just to make the original comparison a bit more fair, we could compare the 2JZ and the 4G63 with equal power to displacement ratios. the 3 litre 2JZ w/ 700whp has the same power to displacement ratio as the 2 litre 4G63 making approx. 470whp. now i don't know my 4G63's that well (so maybe coolcarski could chime in here...), but i think 470hp to the ground might require a built 4G63. i know Nissan's 2 litre SR20 motors are built if they're putting down 450-500hp to the wheels, so i would assume likewise for the 4G63 (even though these two motors may be at different ends of the spectrum when it comes to reliability). so again, even with the same hp/displacement ratio, i think the 2JZ is the motor you want to go with if you want to spend the least money on maintenance and repairs.

By the way, I doubt most 700rwhp Supra's (however many there are) spend too much time on the streets.

Boris

check out www.T04R.com...i think you'll be surprised how many 700+whp Supras are streetable. many of the cars you find there may not be daily drivers, but then again, many are. KenHenderson (@ T04R.com and Supraforums.com) drives a 1,000whp Supra on the streets (not daily, but a few times a week, which is more than any car i'd call a garage queen).

3000GT's are unreliable if you push them often. Their transfer cases were know to break from a hard launch on a stock car. I think Mitsu spent to much time on "bling" and gadgets. You can loose nearly 80 pounds from switching the 18inch cromies to lightweights. Loose the adjustable suspention, loose the active areo, loose that exhaust crap.

The engine itself is incredible, its achilles heel is that it has a tendancy to spin a bearing, which can fubar the entire engine if you don't catch it early. Other than that, I remember one of the 3/s performance shops did a back to back dyno on a supra engine and a 3/s engine, exact same mods. Guess which engine dyno'd higher?

You'd be surprised. Had they weighed 500 less pounds, we would have had a killer on our hands.

Then again, many cars could be unreliable depending on the definition of "pushed often" I know a guy who went through 3 transmissions and 2 engines in a stock SE-R (a very reliable car). But he was the self proclaimed king of power shifting

and just to make the original comparison a bit more fair, we could compare the 2JZ and the 4G63 with equal power to displacement ratios. the 3 litre 2JZ w/ 700whp has the same power to displacement ratio as the 2 litre 4G63 making approx. 470whp. now i don't know my 4G63's that well (so maybe coolcarski could chime in here...), but i think 470hp to the ground might require a built 4G63. i know Nissan's 2 litre SR20 motors are built if they're putting down 450-500hp to the wheels, so i would assume likewise for the 4G63 (even though these two motors may be at different ends of the spectrum when it comes to reliability).

You are right on target.470whp in a 4g63 would require a bottom end upgrade.Right now my car is at the limit just about with it's stck internals.