I'm going to go thru my suspension this summer and redo my existing setup. On the car right now is Bilstien Sports. However I found a place where I can get the Koni yellows for about $114/ea. Is there anyone here that has had both the Koni's and the Sports? The idea of the adjustability of the Koni's is a key selling point however the means to do so detours me. You have to have the shock completely on its own and out of the car to adjust the dampening. This seems almost pointless unless you have nothing but time on your hands. I need to know which ones to go with before I order the coil overs since they require knowing which brand shocks you have so they can send me the corresponding kit.

At the moment I'm leaning towards just keeping my Sports that have about 50k miles on them. I'd really like to find a set of Koni reds since those have the adjustment knob where you can do this while they are installed on the car (I think this is correct, if not please confirm). If my memory serves me right I think Al found these somewhere so Al if you can still get these please PM me.

As of now my plan for the suspension is GC coil overs, IE solid race plates, modified front control arms, Alpina style subframe bar, either solid or jrcook's special subframe mounts, slot and powder coat the rear subframe, a set Toyo T1R's, and if possible custom turn some Urethane diff mounts.

If you keep the billies have send them to the factory and have them valve them to your spec. Cost is roughly 60 dollars a corner.

If you keep the billies have send them to the factory and have them valve them to your spec. Cost is roughly 60 dollars a corner.

I could do that, but then I'm not sure what dampening rate to have them at. At least with the Konis I have the option to adjust them, so with the Bilstiens I wont feel so bad if the $240 got me results I dont care for.

IMO don't bother with the koni's at all (red or yellow). Keep the bilstein sports and install GC's on them would be the cheapest route. The correct way would be to buy a custom valved set of front VW bilstein sports (shorter body). Have the strut tubes shortened to match. This gains front end suspension travel at lowered ride height. For starters I recommend spring rates of 350 front, 250 rear. This is with a stock front and rear sway bar. I don't recommend a stiffer or larger front bar as you'll induce way to much understeer. Topend, Ireland, and GC could do the shorter strut tubes.

If you want to go full out I recommend 350 front, and 400 rear with front stock sway bar and NO rear sway bar. I would also suggest a rebuilt rearend. At least the stock 3.91 gear, but with more lock around 40%. I run this setup with a 4.27 and high lockup. The E21 chassis can murder an autocross course quickly with this combo.;)

Questions:
Does anyone know what the optimum spring rate is for coil overs?
That was the first time I heard to use more in the rear than the front...
I though the more ballanced setup is 450 front 350 rear....
thats what I am leaning towards when I build mine.

CJ are you going to modify the older style control arms,
let us guys which have this older stlye arms know how you do this?
I hear you can use a urethane control arm bushing...
not to sure who sells these other than a place in the uk.

IE solid race plates are these in the front strut housings,
and are these better than the Kmacs bav auto sells?
I just have the regular rubber on mine..
and boston roads are bad. How do IE or KMacs hold up
on roads that have potholes and what not?

By the way I have the DINAN rear subframe, which I have posted pictures off before, I think thats the way to go when you slot it.
I have them at my house if anyone wants to see them let me know.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/jjgbmw323/DSC00468.jpg

later,
J

I'd really like to find a set of Koni reds since those have the adjustment knob where you can do this while they are installed on the car (I think this is correct, if not please confirm).

CJ, Yellow's are superior to Red's - The yellow's have more dampening adjustment.

Read more here: http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/koni/koni_faq.jsp#difference

AFAIK, both reds and yellow can be adjusted via the tool.
Easily in the front, but in the rear, there is no room to use the tool, so they have to be taken out and done externally :(

I have koni yellows in the rear and had the rebuilt by Koni. They can do all kinds of cool shit in the shop. Goes fuggin awesome with the 16mm sway and 4.11 LSD :redspot

I'm sure you could rebuild your bilstein's too (revalved to a sportier spec) if you wanted to keep them.

I've just ordered bilstein sport for the front for my car.

Let us know what you end up doing! I reckon the GC coil overs are the way to go!

I have had bilstiens on my e21, I curreently have them on my e28, and have koni yellows on the 88 M3.

Billies suck, KONI yellows own. Just set the rears to medium when you install then you can adjust the fronts from the top of the strut in the engine compartment. I leave the konis on soft for the street up front and the m3 rides better than my 5 series. (both with dinan springs).

Billies w/coilovers would be ok for auto-x use but for the best performance and if you ever think you will track the car, konis are the way to go.

Where about can you find the Koni Yellow's for the front inserts. I've looked everywhere and can't find a damn thing. Everyone carries the rears, but not the fronts. The only place that I found that "carried" the front's emailed me back and said that the set in NLA. Anyone?

Great information guys, thanks for clearing up the red vs. yellow as I was unsure. I knew I saw that adj knob on the front of the yellows somewhere but on the Koni site it says they have to de taken off the car for adj.

I guess to save some money I'm going to stick with the Billys. I have the ST rear 19mm adj swaybar and the front 25mm one as well. I'd like to keep them on and use a balanced as possible rate front/rear. Since the E21 is pretty damn well balanced, and from what I hear from people who use this setup I should keep the numbers relatively close together while running a rear bar. I figure 350 front and maybe 300 rear? Also keep in mind I don’t autox my car at the moment but Id like to think I would eventually, but when I do go out for drives I like to scare the crap out of myself with it so spirited driving is pretty much the target goal here. Id like to keep the car as low as possible without getting bump steer or making the front arms parallel.

Where about can you find the Koni Yellow's for the front inserts. I've looked everywhere and can't find a damn thing. Everyone carries the rears, but not the fronts. The only place that I found that "carried" the front's emailed me back and said that the set in NLA. Anyone?


They are discontinued IIRC but there should be an early VW fitment that will work and is already shorter so you can just cut the strut tubes, like autox32i mentioned above.

There is a place where you can still buy the 323i front Koni yellows.

Joe the KMAC kit uses a urethane bushing and has camber adj of negative 1 degree, and they also have slight castor adj. If you want more than 1 degree you’re going to have to widen the opening in the tower housing to allow for more adjustability of the plates.

The IE plates are solid and use a roller bearing; they have a max of negative 3 degrees camber. There is no modifying to the tower housings as they install from underneath the housing.

There is a place where you can still buy the 323i front Koni yellows.


okay, WHERE???

I never had Koni's in the 323i but I have the yellows in the Volvo. I'm very pleased with them, I go soft up front in the city, and Stiff on the freeway rears are set at medium. Its not to bad to adjust rears, unbolt bottom and compress and rotate to desired stiffness.

Here is a link about red vs yellow

http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/koni/specialvssport.jsp

I picked up a set of new reds off of E-bay for $350.00. the rears are a pain in the ass to adjust. you have to remove them from the car dissasemble the strut compress the shock all the way in and turn it. then reaasemble the whole thing and put it back in. The spring perch is adjustable on the rear reds.

The fronts just use the knob and turn.....I really like the reds on my 320, they seem stiffer than the Bilsteins (I'm told they are sports, haven't verified this though) although thee billsteins are 15+ years old and probably need to be rebuilt.

I havn't driven a whole lot on the Konis since I picked up the Baur about a week after I installed the Koni's on the 320 and since the exhuast broke I havn't driven it much at all....

On VWs I have had both - Bilsteins are great, no doubt. But something about the Konis always seems a touch better. I always had the yellows that were top adj which is super awesome. For the same money, I will always go with Koni yellows.

Koni Reds aren't that great. They are like a more pedestrian, less stiffly valved shocks. Like a Boge turbo vs. a Bilstein.

I plan on replacing the front Bilsteins that are fine, with the Koni yellows when I find some.

Greg, as you know VW's pretty well, what is this earlier VW that eFreak is talking about where the front strut inserts are adaptable to the E21?

I am 90% sure it is the A1 chassis Rabbit/Scirocco 75-88, Jetta 80-84. I have had about 3 sets of those over the years. Pity I don't have one now to test. I do have lots of VW strut housings laying around.

Well according to classicgarage.com (http://www.classicgarage.com/rajescfrspst.html) these should be the inserts. I might just take a stab at it to see if they'll work. Need to save up some capital. You feel like having a little R&D festival at my storage unit Greg?:buttrock

I have the koni reds from classicgarage.com on my beater with stock springs and I like the ride comfort. It's soft enough, yet stiff enough to corner when I need to. I think I need some sway bars/stiffer springs to get the most out of them.

Well according to classicgarage.com (http://www.classicgarage.com/rajescfrspst.html) these should be the inserts. I might just take a stab at it to see if they'll work. Need to save up some capital. You feel like having a little R&D festival at my storage unit Greg?:buttrock
Um Yeah Redmist on tricords site has used the rabbit inserts on his e21.

Um Yeah Redmist on tricords site has used the rabbit inserts on his e21.
Do you know how they worked out for them, any mods to the housings, etc.? If this is the case, I'm so going for it!:redspot

Do you know how they worked out for them, any mods to the housings, etc.? If this is the case, I'm so going for it!:redspot
Yes, you have to shorten the housings.
I forget by how much but I thought it was 1 inch or so.

classicgarage.com only seems to have KONI yellows for the rear:(.

Read above, there is a solution.

I figure 350 front and maybe 300 rear?
Keep in mind the stiffer you go in the rear the more tail happy the car will be. I would think 300 lbs might be high to start out with. The good thing is that new 2.5" dia eibachs are pretty cheap, so you can always buy another set for the rear and sell the old ones.

I have eibachs and bilstien sports, 25mm front, 19mm rear bars. My car was pretty well balanced on my first auto-x but I had more body roll in the rear than I wanted (LOTS). I lowered the rear to the lowest notch on the bilstiens, filled the subframe mounts with urethane, and installed urethane sway bar mounts. On my 2nd auto-x the car was much more tail happy. My body roll was reduced significantly but the rear slid all over the place. I'm sure some of it was the increased stiffness combind with increased camber in the rear from lowering another 1/2", and my tires are old, hard and down to the wear bars. Plus we were on a sealed lot so it was slippery.

This is what TEP recommends:

Front Spring rates vary from 300 lb to 500 lb depending on the car and the track. We start with 400 lb for I.T use and 350 lb for Auto-X

Rear spring rates should be from 150-280 lbs. We always start with 200 lb and they work well about 80% of the time.

Good luck on the suspension. When it's all done let me know what rates you chose and how you like em. Then I can learn from your mistakes. haha.

I can't wait to get GC's, IE camber plates, poly control arm bushings and new tires to complete my suspension and hit the track again (with an extra 90 hp on tap :evil2 )

Good luck on the suspension. When it's all done let me know what rates you chose and how you like em. Then I can learn from your mistakes. haha.



This was my logic on contemplating going with 300 in the rear. Jason, and a few others who have 250-275 say they wish they had a little more stiffness. But your right though, the springs are relatively cheap and I should start of with 250-275, and increase as I see fit. I work about 5 miles from the Eibach factory and I'm going to make a stop sometime this week and see if they can do anything for me in the terms of favors. I really want to get this project under way but I wont have the funds gathered for another 6 weeks.

Your not helping me either with all your udpates on your turbo project, it puts crazy thoughts in my head. If I find a turbo to fit the BAE manifold or make an adapter I might just throw it on while the car is down.

Your not helping me either with all your udpates on your turbo project, it puts crazy thoughts in my head. If I find a turbo to fit the BAE manifold or make an adapter I might just throw it on while the car is down.
mwhahaha. DO IT!! What is the flange? T3? T25? or something totally different? Bolt pattern on the T25 is 2.874 x 1.575, T3 is 3.386 x 1.752. I could help you size a turbo if you want.

Maybe you should try 300 based on their experience. Have any of those guys tracked or autox'd their car?

Is the project done yet?

Is the project done yet?
Mine? no. check out the link in sig to see almost current progress.

What do you have left to do? I looked at the link, and it looks pretty damn close to done.

haha, not even close. hmmm, lets see, in somewhat of an order..

1 fab upper mounts for the intercooler
2 weld up the other side of my intake piping
3 buy a DSM blow off valve, weld flange to said intake piping
4 weld beads on all my intake piping so the connectors don't blow off
5 finish welding the exhaust
6 paint manifolds, exhaust and intake piping
7 finish install of throttle body, run new vacuum/boost lines to dizzy, boost gage, etc. as e12 TB required remove of stock vacuum ports
8 Install large vacuum canister to distributor to retard timing at boost
9 Install boost gage
10 Drill & tap oil filter flange for oil supply line
11 Install oil supply and return lines
12 Install coolant lines to turbo
13 Seal motor back up with new gaskets
14 Run steel fuel line from left side of engine bay to right side, reattach stainless braided k-jet lines to new hard lines.
15 Extend frequency valve wiring harness to new fuel dist. location.
16 Install new turbo WUR
17 Run VW braided stainless fuel lines to cold start injector, WUR and injectors. Make new lines where VW stainless lines aren't long enough.
18 figure out how to install (2) 8" cooling fans on engine bay side of radiator.
19 weld up cold air intake/air filter pipe
20 get car running, test and tune
21 smoke my old crusty tires to oblivion

Go LEDA or go home pussy.

Go LEDA or go home pussy.

I am what I eat

haha, not even close. hmmm, lets see, in somewhat of an order..
Hmmmm....I see..... yeah that's a lot. -cough-.....yup. God Speed to you my friend, God Speed.

21 smoke my old crusty tires to oblivion
I like where your head is at.

I ordered the GC kit today for the Bilstiens.

If any of you ever need to speak with GC I would recommend talking to Dan. He seemed like he knew allot of info about the e21. He even knew the curb weight and the available motors by engine code. He explained to me that going with the Koni's would be a better route since the Billy's have a built in bump-stop. If you get really low on the threads you will feel this on the Billy's as apposed to the Koni's. Other then that issue he has not had a complaint because of this. He also mentioned that it is not entirely necessary to weld the rings onto the strut housing. I know Jason didn’t and hasn’t had a problem with them. I don’t have a problem welding though as I have a welder and am not too terrible at it.

I went with the Bilstien kit since I already have them and don’t feel like trying to source 323i parts, and spending an additional +$400 on shocks. I went with 350/250 for rates as well. He also informed me that Eibach raised the price of their springs as of May to $89/each. However when GC made Eibach the exclusive supplier they bought a massive amount and are still able to sell them for $59/each. I was still hoping that they would be cheaper then this. They have in stock atm for the rears 250, 300, 350, 400, 450. They can however get a hold of 275, 280, 325 from Eibach and still sell them to you for the $59.

So once I get my funds together and buy the rest of the parts I wont have any pics until then. Ordering the plates and mounts in the next 2 weeks.

CJ, if you want to, its easy to access the internal bumpstops on billies. Once you have accessed them, you can either cut them down or remove them completely... I know people who have done this without any problems.

CJ, if you want to, its easy to access the internal bumpstops on billies. Once you have accessed them, you can either cut them down or remove them completely... I know people who have done this without any problems.
just curious, would that void the "Lifetime" warranty that Bilstein has?
Jake

just curious, would that void the "Lifetime" warranty that Bilstein has?
Jake

No clue...

hey i just got my bilstiens sports for my car today and was looking at them and it looks like only one set is the strut....what about te other pair

here is what i got......

<img src="http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/deejnegro/P7120001.jpg">

Thats right DJ, the struts (the one with the bands) are for the front. They slip into the strut housing. The rears are the shocks, you get the idea.

ya i figured it out got it all on in about 2 hours. i am sooo happy now my car actually feels like i can drive fun wheeeee

Congrats! :D wheeeee :D I need funds!!! :(

CJ - There is a wealth of 2.5 inch ID springs out there that are far superior to Eibach if you ask me. Hypercoil is used the world over in race applications and formula 1. Therefore... they are on my car too. 2.5 inch ID springs are cheap too, there is such competition that prices stay down. Hypercoil, the last time I checked, are less than eibachs.

CJ - There is a wealth of 2.5 inch ID springs out there that are far superior to Eibach if you ask me. Hypercoil is used the world over in race applications and formula 1. Therefore... they are on my car too. 2.5 inch ID springs are cheap too, there is such competition that prices stay down. Hypercoil, the last time I checked, are less than eibachs.

Noted, thanks

Spax! Got em, love em. Used alot in euro racing.

Let's see some links for these items, eh?

I'll need to call for prices CJ (think $50 to $75 a piece), I have a friend in town that builds midgets and sprint cars, he sales a boat load of 2.5 springs and can get more if you want something other then what he has.
I'm going to move my 350's to the back and get some 425's for the front, so when I get that done I'll have a set of 250's for sell. I think the 350s up front and 250s in the back are fine for a street car, I want more for track days.
CJ - You're welcome to come take my car for a drive around the block to get a feel for how stiff it is, I'm about 2.5 miles from Eibach.

Oh, CJ, I don't know if this is relevant on the e21 coil-overs or if you care, but I read something about running with the coil-overs "upside-down", you can easily change the springs later if you need to. Good for track guys, but not sure if you care for it.
Jake

Running shocks upside down is an effort to reduce unsprung weight or increase clearance, etc. Not really possible with our strut front suspension. Not worth the hassle for the tiny difference it might make on a street car.

Running shocks upside down is an effort to reduce unsprung weight or increase clearance, etc. Not really possible with our strut front suspension. Not worth the hassle for the tiny difference it might make on a street car.
Yeah, I was thinking that the front wasn't right for it, but whatever. And, yes, for a street car, it would be quite worthless.
Jake

Great information guys, thanks for clearing up the red vs. yellow as I was unsure. I knew I saw that adj knob on the front of the yellows somewhere but on the Koni site it says they have to de taken off the car for adj.

I guess to save some money I'm going to stick with the Billys. I have the ST rear 19mm adj swaybar and the front 25mm one as well. I'd like to keep them on and use a balanced as possible rate front/rear. Since the E21 is pretty damn well balanced, and from what I hear from people who use this setup I should keep the numbers relatively close together while running a rear bar. I figure 350 front and maybe 300 rear? Also keep in mind I don’t autox my car at the moment but Id like to think I would eventually, but when I do go out for drives I like to scare the crap out of myself with it so spirited driving is pretty much the target goal here. Id like to keep the car as low as possible without getting bump steer or making the front arms parallel.

I might be a little late on making this point, but in order to change the spring perch height (I forget if there is 3 or 5 settings) the strut needs to be removed.

edit: for the yellows that is..

I might be a little late on making this point, but in order to change the spring perch height (I forget if there is 3 or 5 settings) the strut needs to be removed.

edit: for the yellows that is..

What do you mean? The front struts for the Koni's arnt adjustable as far as perches.

The rear Sports are the only ones that are adjustable, they have 4 perches, and dont need to be taken off.

he is talking about the bilsteins;) i hope:shifty
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c9/mad323i/bilisports.jpg
see the little slots, the ring snaps out and you can adjust it there..mainly for trapping lowerd springs:buttrock
*edit* fronts on order:D and windy, can you give some some info where you got your springs..you said do things right the first time:D
i'll still grab the other one's off you for a mates car;)

Can someone (Jonas) please post how to rid the internal bump stops on the Bilsteins.

he is talking about the bilsteins;) i hope:shifty
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c9/mad323i/bilisports.jpg
see the little slots, the ring snaps out and you can adjust it there..mainly for trapping lowerd springs:buttrock
*edit* fronts on order:D and windy, can you give some some info where you got your springs..you said do things right the first time:D
i'll still grab the other one's off you for a mates car;)

well maybe they are different for different cars, but i have 2 friends that have Koni yellows, one is a '97 accord, the other a '99 civic, and they had, i think 5 different perches to set the spring on, like the billies. For their konies, however, they had to remove the entire strut to adjust it. As well as the adjustable stiffness on top.

My rear Koni Sports don't have adjustable perches, but I am going coilover in the front very, very soon, so will probably fab up some sleeves for the rear as well.

My VW ones had different perches and were top adjustable.

These helped my handling out quite a bit. This is deffinately a good buy in my opinion. At high speeds the steering wheel has way less play but parking lots are a bitch cuz no power steering plus the urethane makes it tough to turn the wheel at 0-3mph
http://www.bmpdesign.com/product-exec/product_id/685/category_id/56/search_year/1978/search_model/11

sorry, my last post made it sound like they had to remove the strut to adjust the stiffness, but they didn't. Just to change the perches.

I have Koni Coilovers on my MK2 GTI and I love them

These helped my handling out quite a bit. This is deffinately a good buy in my opinion. At high speeds the steering wheel has way less play but parking lots are a bitch cuz no power steering plus the urethane makes it tough to turn the wheel at 0-3mph
http://www.bmpdesign.com/product-exec/product_id/685/category_id/56/search_year/1978/search_model/11

Thats odd becuase I didnt notice any steering difference at all at low speeds.

If you think about it, the bushings can't change any steering effort, just feel. I have always had them in (since I started driving it) and wouldn't change it for anything. I have a small str wheel and it isn't that bad. Its a light car.

My steering rack bushings had turned to mush and when I changed to urethane bushings I found low speed turning of the wheel to actually be easier, and obviously more precise.

THe rear Koni Reds I have have adjustable perches as well...I need to get those on my baur or have the bilsteins rebuilt. the Baur squat in the back every time I stomp on the gas.

THe rear Koni Reds I have have adjustable perches as well...I need to get those on my baur or have the bilsteins rebuilt. the Baur squat in the back every time I stomp on the gas.


such is my problem. so bad that i was rubbing the guards

how is this comming along CJ?

before all of this, what perch did you have the rear Billies on, and how did you like it?

Its not comming along. I have the coil-overs, urathane bushings, and waiting on the plates. I have way to much going on right now to work on my car.

I had it on the 2nd to bottom perch. I like it there, but there is a slight botteming out when I dump the clutch. I had it on the very bottom before and it was just too much.

I'm really interested in your feedback on the spring rates. I think I'm going to go up on my car when I move into the house. Once I sell the truck and get a daily driver (probably a old S10 pickup). The E21 is going on jack stands in December when we move in.

what would it look/handle like if I had it on the top perch? I want to go with a slightly raked look, but I'm not sure what would be best..

what would it look/handle like if I had it on the top perch? I want to go with a slightly raked look, but I'm not sure what would be best..

Your weight balance would be off.

okay.. yeah i had a feeling it would be..

Ranking looks emo, put a taller tire on the rear if anything

well the rake doesn't even matter, I just don't want the motorboat look, ya know?

get a 2002 then :stickoutt
jokes jokes

nono, i said avoid the motor boat look...

i kid, i kid :D

Ive got Koni springs that lower a little less than 2 inches and Bilstein Heavy Duties got it in a package alltogether for around $750

Ive got Koni springs that lower a little less than 2 inches and Bilstein Heavy Duties got it in a package alltogether for around $750
Koni made springs?:confused
Jake

I have a question now.

I was thinking of cutting the the strut tubes down 2 inches and then welding the GC coil-overs to the strut tube. I'll use VW 16v GTI Bilsteins that way it will have a lower center of gravity and still maintain full suspension travel.

So how will this effect the rear since there is nothing to shorten? Won't the rear suspension have a different geometry than the front, since I'll have to lower the coils in the rear to keep up with the fronts?

Not sure what your asking CJ -Geometry?

The suspension Geometry is in the angle of the lower suspension arm "only arm in our cars" at ride height in relation to the ground and it's mounting point on the chassis, same with the rear suspension. Lowering any car too much can actually turn a good handling car into a poor handling car, if suspension mounting points are not corrected.

Modifing the mounting point of one end of the car and not doing the same mods to the back will end up with unbalanced suspension geometery between the front and rear making for an ill handling car.

Basically, changing the ride height of any car changes the active roll center of the suspension geometry which changes the cars ablity to transfer weight from wheel to wheel, side to side - front to back, which effects turn in, turn out, mid corner steering, powering out of a corner, braking and...

I have some drawings and models if you want to give me a call and come check them out. Too many books written, for me to try and rewrite in a forum thread with my poor :help writing skills.

whats the best setup for the E21 then.. what kind of drop is safe but will improve handling also?
and whats you take on bilstein B6's?

There is a formula for spring rates if anyone is interested in doing it correctly rather than just stabbing in the dark. Had to go through the math for working out replacement items for the car, didnt have a good spring i could have tested :(

wana do it for me:stickoutt
looking at king springs, heard they are good but ride rough..ohh jeah baby!:buttrock

whats the best setup for the E21 then.. what kind of drop is safe but will improve handling also?
and whats you take on bilstein B6's?

I’m certainly no expert on handling, so feel free to ignore this statement! However, I have heard that Alpina tested and restested the Bilsteins on the B6 and C1 2.3 cars on the track, revalving them until they matched the Alpina springs on these cars perfectly. They also added thicker anti rollbars. Personally I’d be tempted to reproduce this setup as much as possible for an E21

CJ -- Old Man speaks the truth. All I can say is that if the rear trailing arms go beyond parallel with the ground then you're going to have handling problems. Shortening the front is not too much of an issue as your travel will not be effected (shorter struts). The rear is a little trickier. When the trailing arm goes parallel with the ground you've reached the geometric limit of the stock rear setup.

As far as the best goes, will not make a claim.

But Eibach, Ground control, Alpina, and more all make lowering springs that lower our cars 1.5" to1.75 in the front and 2" in the back Max. So with all the liability laws in the world I'm sure they feel this is the most that should be done.

I had mine 2.5" in the front and 3 1/4" in the back, raised the car up to 2" in the front and 2.5" in the rear and it drove much better, was faster and more controled at track day.

I'm going to up my spring rates to 450 in the front and 375 or so in the rear as my next move.

I understand this point about the rear ams and geometry.

I guess my question should have been am I fine with just shortening the fronts and leaving the rears? Or is there anything else I can do?

Why are you shortening the fronts:

A: To lower the car more then 2" in the front? I would say NO, not wroth the time and work.

or B: Because the shocks that fit into the shorter housings can give you more suspension travel then a sport shock will in a shock housing? I would say YES

But I have bilstein sports in stock housings and have lowered the car as much as 3.5" in the front and 4.5" in the back - bimmerfest 2005 - for looks drove ok on the street and home. But did not leave it there as it would bottom out the shocks on bigger bumps, which would have destroyed them, and it was ill handeling at freeway speeds.

Not sure how the VW shocks lower the center of Gravity ?

You talking actual weight or center of gravity as per suspension positioning/design geometry?

Do you know the weight difference between the VW sports and the e21 sports? Going to coilovers and getting rid of the stock big spring and spring purch is going to make about a 5 pound change per side.

I am going to modify my rear sub frame to put the trailing arm mounts higher in the car, but I will have to cut out parts of the floor and most likely move the fuel pump and filter from where they are. Only planning on doing this to my AutoX car for now, at the same time I will modify it for adjustable toe and camber.

slotting the subframe can rid some of that exess rear camber when going lower in the rear, yes?

slotting the subframe can rid some of that exess rear camber when going lower in the rear, yes?

This is true, and its getting done when I do the GC's