here are a few pics from VIR...these guys FandS take some really nice photos I think...I believe they are the track camera folks there and work all of the race weekends...at least the tarheel ones it seems...

http://www.fandsenterprises.com/personalgalleries2006/car22/images/vdca-0885.jpg

http://www.fandsenterprises.com/personalgalleries2006/car22/images/vdca-4292.jpg

http://www.fandsenterprises.com/personalgalleries2006/car22/images/vdca-5369.jpg

http://www.fandsenterprises.com/personalgalleries2006/car22/images/vdca-4686.jpg

http://www.fandsenterprises.com/personalgalleries2006/car22/images/vdca-0960.jpg

so many stickerzZZZzzzZZ :eek:

How did the gearing work out Sunir?

second to last is my favorite pic :)

hey, sunir! :D

How did the gearing work out Sunir?

The gearing was certainly better than the situation we had when you drove the car at Summit...the 3.73 is a good gear for VIR with the power range the car makes...unfortunatly I think we came up a little short of where we shoud have been...we got down into the 2:11's but I'd run faster than that in the past:confused , the car didn't seem to pull as strongly...going to be looking into it...leakdown may be a reason as well as exhaust setup, don't know for sure:help ...seemed to lack top end moreso than anywhere else in the power band...rpm would be steady upto around 6k and then struggle (or move up slower) from 6k to redline (7200 is where I have the shift light set to)...:dunno

overall a very fun race weekend:) ...it felt great to be back in the cockpit after not racing in '05 due to health reasons...

Car looks good. Glad to see you back in the driver's seat.

How many races do you plan to participate in this year?

Good looking pictures.... wish I could have been there.

Les

second to last is my favorite pic :)

Mine too.

these from the april club race?

http://www.fandsenterprises.com/personalgalleries2006/car22/images/vdca-5369.jpg

sunir, what are you doing BEHIND an IP car?!?!?! :D ;)

these from the april club race?
Yup. The pic with our car is from qualifying as I was trying to hold up the pack to get 1-2 decent laps in.

Yup. The pic with our car is from qualifying as I was trying to hold up the pack to get 1-2 decent laps in.

untill Martinelli put the charge up through the rest of the pack on the back straight making you and Steve B gun it...lol:) ...Steve was talking to me afterwards and he said it was going well until other cars in the back started to charge...unfortunately not a clean lap to be had in that quali for a lot of us!

sunir, what are you doing BEHIND an IP car?!?!?! :D ;)

lol:D ...doh:stickoutt...

The gearing was certainly better than the situation we had when you drove the car at Summit...the 3.73 is a good gear for VIR with the power range the car makes...unfortunatly I think we came up a little short of where we shoud have been...we got down into the 2:11's but I'd run faster than that in the past:confused , the car didn't seem to pull as strongly...going to be looking into it...leakdown may be a reason as well as exhaust setup, don't know for sure:help ...seemed to lack top end moreso than anywhere else in the power band...rpm would be steady upto around 6k and then struggle (or move up slower) from 6k to redline (7200 is where I have the shift light set to)...:dunno

overall a very fun race weekend:) ...it felt great to be back in the cockpit after not racing in '05 due to health reasons...
Put your other cams back in. ;)

Put your other cams back in. ;)

interesting you say that...I am actually going to have both pairs of cams in the car (first shricks...then Sunbelts) when I get the engine refreshed next time around...I will have it tested back to back and tuned back to back with each to make sure it's where I want it, exhaust systems are something we'd need to play with though even in this case I think it's said that the KK setup makes better power with the shricks and the supersprint setup is said to make more power with the Sunbelts...based on what unfolds after that I think it'll give me a true understanding of what's going on...

alas this whole process costs some coin so no telling when this'll all happen, just kinda glad I didn't sell the shricks yet...

SS Euro headers suck for US motors, plain and simple. AA Race headers suck harder. SS US headers just plain swalllow...

If you're going to spend the money, buy a new motor from the dealer for $5k and swap in the schricks and save all your money for the KK and custom tuning.

SS Euro headers suck for US motors, plain and simple.
:confused they work fine on my US motor...i just sold my KK exhaust

SS Euro headers suck for US motors, plain and simple. AA Race headers suck harder. SS US headers just plain swalllow...

If you're going to spend the money, buy a new motor from the dealer for $5k and swap in the schricks and save all your money for the KK and custom tuning.

what would I do with my old motor then?:help

what would I do with my old motor then?:help
To buy one from the dealer for ~$5k, you'd need a core, otherwise, ~$7k.
they work fine on my US motor...i just sold my KK exhaust, boy i must be dumb...
Dyno plots of before and after?

:confused they work fine on my US motor...i just sold my KK exhaust, boy i must be dumb...

true that...doby I can tell you that Dave's car makes good power...he's doing something right in terms of the selections and choices he's made no doubt. We purposely did a drag race on the back straight coming out of oak tree with equal runs in Friday's practice and he pulled on me strong, we wanted to do this drag race test and set it up as such in order to benchmark test to see how my engine would do since the sunbelt install, new tune, and 3.2L euro headers install and since Dave's a friend who has a similar but not exactly the same setup he offered to help me with this so I could have real world estimate of my car's straight line performance and not just dyno sheet and com/leak figures ...I couldn't believe it because my car is substaintially lighter (HP LTW M3 vs. IP M3) and he pulled me clearly...we reviewed my Dyno charts from Cyntex as well as the leakdown and compression figures in my engine, I talked to James about this also, seems like there are various factors here that may be effecting me. As for Dave and his car, he drove stellar the entire weekend, a good example of a strong car & good driver equaling great performance...:)

Well I'm just going off of the countless dyno plots I've seen of testing with different headers. All I can say is that the SS Euro lost across the board on the built 3.2L's that ran in WC. I've been told countless times that they will hurt performance since they are designed to make power well above any rpm range that our US motors make. Same with the stock Euro headers. And AA's race headers with their 1.6" primaries are just down right scary...

How bad did Bud pull on you? His/My motors aren't making that much more peak power then you or other bolt on motors. The internal pieces are lightened, but he and I are both making 250-260rwhp. He's on stock 3.0L cast manifolds. ;) Stock < Remus < KK

As for Dave and his car, he drove stellar the entire weekend, a good example of a strong car & good driver equaling great performance...:)

You forgot to mention the part where I managed to get in front of you :stickoutt

You forgot to mention the part where I managed to get in front of you :stickoutt

I think that's called ipwned :stickoutt

Well I'm just going off of the countless dyno plots I've seen of testing with different headers. All I can say is that the SS Euro lost across the board on the built 3.2L's that ran in WC. I've been told countless times that they will hurt performance since they are designed to make power well above any rpm range that our US motors make.

i'm not going to post my plots here (sorry) but i can say that i gained a good amount of midrange tq when going from sunbelt/kk setup to sunbelt/SS euro setup...

i have tried 3 different setups:
1) schrick/KK with stickley chip, 7k rpm limit
2) sunbelt/KK with stickley chip, 7.5k rpm limit
3) sunbelt/SS euro with AA chip, 7.4k rpm limit - the stickley chip would not work with the SS setup, it ran way lean and cut out up top

i never got a chance to try the schrick/SS euro setup

having dyno'd and raced with each setup, i can tell you that the sunbelt/SS euro setup makes the most power and thats what i kept...

edit: i have nothing against schrick cams, KK exhaust, or stickley chips! all are top notch parts!

thanks for the kind words sunir, hope you get your car sorted out soon!!!

You forgot to mention the part where I managed to get in front of you :stickoutt

lol...I gotta admit that was a great move:) ...you saw the opportunity after Mendola chopped me in T3 at the start and you went for it...it was clean and very well executed...good job! you drove well Eric...it was a good race and you gave me room on the repass upt on the brake zone on the hill into rollercoaster thereafter, some clean and fun racing there bud:)

as for me it was great to be out there again...I've got a ways to go to get things sorted and hopefully be back to form soon...just today to add to this engine issue, found out that my rear shocks are blown...done ...toast...they'ed been like this since around midway through the '04 season when I had some paintwork done on the fender lips there in the rear and the overspray got on 'em, well apparently it should have rubbed off but the operspray remained...and now the damper at full compression can be pushed up by hand it seems from what I am told:( ...looks like the TCKR's aren't fail proof, perhaps look into going JRZ or GC :dunno

perhaps look into going JRZ or GC :dunno
let me know if you want some AD's ;)

i'm not going to post my plots here (sorry) but i can say that i gained a good amount of midrange tq when going from sunbelt/kk setup to sunbelt/SS euro setup...

i have tried 3 different setups:
1) schrick/KK with stickley chip, 7k rpm limit
2) sunbelt/KK with stickley chip, 7.5k rpm limit
3) sunbelt/SS euro with AA chip, 7.4k rpm limit - the stickley chip would not work with the SS setup, it ran way lean and cut out up top

i never got a chance to try the schrick/SS euro setup

having dyno'd and raced with each setup, i can tell you that the sunbelt/SS euro setup makes the most power and thats what i kept...

edit: i have nothing against schrick cams, KK exhaust, or stickley chips! all are top notch parts!

That's news to me, I'll be sure to tell those who have tested all of the parts. I'm glad they worked out for you. What mid-pipe did you run with each setup? Did you have the KK 2.5"x4" oval pipes?

let me know if you want some AD's ;)

someone thinking of dumping their old AD's and going to JRZ's:devillook

That's news to me, I'll be sure to tell those who have tested all of the parts.
i'm not sure what that would accomplish since you said they were testing built 3.2 WC motors...the discussion here seemed be more centered around prepared class cars/motors...

from my experience, the SS euro headers dont "suck for US motors, plain and simple" like you said...maybe they do suck for built WC motors though

What mid-pipe did you run with each setup? Did you have the KK 2.5"x4" oval pipes?
i ran the full KK exhaust and now run the full SS euro system

someone thinking of dumping their old AD's and going to JRZ's:devillook

you never know... ;)

i'm not sure what that would accomplish since you said they were testing built 3.2 WC motors...the discussion here seemed be more centered around prepared class cars/motors...

from my experience, the SS euro headers dont "suck for US motors, plain and simple" like you said...maybe they do suck for built WC motors though
Because they were too big for the fully built WC motors running Motecs, so what's the say about stock motors with cams and stock DME's? Your one experience was good, and that's good to hear, but I'm going on the countless examples I've seen on paper. They were tested over and over and over again with many different mid-pipes while being re-tuned every time. Maybe the S52's have changed over the years. :dunno

Again, I'm glad it worked out for you, maybe the sunbelt cams will live up to their hype.

you never know... ;)

AD's are good, and I'd love to run 'em but I heard they've blown also n' require frequent rebuilds...

to replace the Koni DA rears outright would be close to $400 a corner...I'd like to look into getting them rebuilt but that could take 6 - 8 weeks I've heard that Koni is super slow:(

Dave, how new are your GCs? how long ago have they been rebuilt if they have been since you got 'em...?

Good read, fellas!

I have learned from this, that to club race, all you need is a well setup car with a strong motor and sorted suspension! :buttrock


:stickoutt

Dave, how new are your GCs? how long ago have they been rebuilt if they have been since you got 'em...?
my AD's have been on the car for about 18 months now...bought them new and havent had to rebuild them yet (knock on wood ;) )

I have learned from this, that to club race, all you need is a well setup car with a strong motor and sorted suspension! :buttrock


:stickoutt

yep, a well setup car will pretty much drive itself :D

Good read, fellas!

I have learned from this, that to club race, all you need is a well setup car with a strong motor and sorted suspension! :buttrock


:stickoutt

lol:D ...the driver is the most important factor I think first and foremost, but in addition it doesn't hurt to shoot for the above...you can be much more competitive and optimize your overall performance out there with a good machine under ya...

my AD's have been on the car for about 18 months now...bought them new and havent had to rebuild them yet (knock on wood ;) )

18 months :eyecrazy!!! ...looks they they should be due in for a rebuild before say if ya decide to sell 'em;) :) ...

18 months :eyecrazy!!! ...looks they they should be due in for a rebuild before say if ya decide to sell 'em;) :) ...

yep, IF i sell them, they definitely should be checked out and rebuilt/revalved if necessary...

yep, a well setup car will pretty much drive itself :D

Or just bring in a ringer....:devillook

Good read, fellas!

I have learned from this, that to club race, all you need is a well setup car with a strong motor and sorted suspension! :buttrock


:stickoutt

:laugh

Hey guys, is there away to check to see if a suspension needs to be rebuilt? I have a set of TEIN Basic coilovers that are approx. 3 years old and I think they are in need of a rebuild. Any way to check?:help If so, approx. cost?

I was just told today...the car is in the shop and the rear shocks were pulled off to take a look at the rubber bushing which was sliding out of the bottom shock mounting point...they are bearing zero compression load at full stiff...:( they need to be rebuilt or replaced is what I was told...Koni has a warrently program for their D/A's but it takes a long turnaround time...so that's the dilemma for me...

aside from that I never knew that they were blown, and they were for a long time...the car did have a bit of trouble with rear grip but it wasn't something I couldn't try and drive around, often times I attributed it to tires or spring/bar setup...it would skate a bit while putting power down before the apex point so I'd get on and off the throttle a bit (sorta featerhing it) to try to get it to bite...wasn't as smooth as I'd like to have been...had to finess it a little...

I was just told today...the car is in the shop and the rear shocks were pulled off to take a look at the rubber bushing which was sliding out of the bottom shock mounting point...they are bearing zero compression load at full stiff...:( they need to be rebuilt or replaced is what I was told...Koni has a warrently program for their D/A's but it takes a long turnaround time...so that's the dilemma for me...

aside from that I never knew that they were blown, and they were for a long time...the car did have a bit of trouble with rear grip but it wasn't something I couldn't try and drive around, often times I attributed it to tires or spring/bar setup...it would skate a bit while putting power down before the apex point so I'd get on and off the throttle a bit (sorta featerhing it) to try to get it to bite...wasn't as smooth as I'd like to have been...had to finess it a little...

Time for some JRZs or Ohlins! :stickoutt

Sunir, wouldnt a softer rear end be better to put the power down?

Koni goes to Topeka for the Solo Nats every year and rebuilds the shocks for free that week. ;)

Koni goes to Topeka for the Solo Nats every year and rebuilds the shocks for free that week. ;)
You going? Take mine ppllleeaasee:eek:

Steve was talking to me afterwards and he said it was going well until other cars in the back started to charge...unfortunately not a clean lap to be had in that quali for a lot of us!

I wasn't worried about the rest of ya. ;)

Koni goes to Topeka for the Solo Nats every year and rebuilds the shocks for free that week. ;)
talk about badass customer service!!

Yeah, you only have to pay for parts... but I bought a t-shirt too.

Or just bring in a ringer....:devillook
cheater!!!! :eek: :D

Time for some JRZs or Ohlins! :stickoutt

Sunir, wouldnt a softer rear end be better to put the power down?

JRZ or Ohlins is a nice thought!!! :) but very expensive:( ...dunno :dunno if I'll bite the bullet and get a set or not...may just have thse rebuilt:help

I asked Ed about that (softer rear for putting down power)...he told me that running the stiffer springs in a way comphensated for the loss of compression in the damper, however it would inherently be very bouncy because the shock would not be able to control the spring...and indeed that was part of the problem I was having, i.e ussually on corners that involve a good deal of throttle transition like the T1 - T2 complex at VIR...lots of bounce and not enough grip, quite skaty & feathering/finesse through there not being able to get the bite to really get the power down there...

yep, a well setup car will pretty much drive itself :D

*talking into watch*

"KITT! Talk to me buddy!!!!"

My shocks seems to bottomout way too easily. The ride is on the harsher side, which is what to be expected based on what others have said. However, they seem to bottomout if I go over an awkward dip in the road. Maybe I am just not used to how they actually operate. :dunno I was just wondering if there was a way to visually inspect them for possible damage.

My shocks seems to bottomout way too easily. The ride is on the harsher side, which is what to be expected based on what others have said. However, they seem to bottomout if I go over an awkward dip in the road. Maybe I am just not used to how they actually operate. :dunno I was just wondering if there was a way to visually inspect them for possible damage.

I'd image you can see if there are oil leak in the shocks as a start. Like Pete had a problem with one of his Bilsteins-oil had collected in the boot. Have you taken them off and see if you can easily compress them by hand?

I'd image you can see if there are oil leak in the shocks as a start. Like Pete had a problem with one of his Bilsteins-oil had collected in the boot. Have you taken them off and see if you can easily compress them by hand?

That's my next project. Once I get the 240 running again, I am going to start working on the Prelude.

I emailed TEIN and their respeonse was, "Send us a pic of the shocks on your car." :confused :laugh :dunno

That's my next project. Once I get the 240 running again, I am going to start working on the Prelude.

I emailed TEIN and their respeonse was, "Send us a pic of the shocks on your car." :confused :laugh :dunno

Tein is a super hot street tuner suspension for vtec cars...lots of hopped up hondas roll on teins...I saw the company's products at a tuner car show a few years back (HIN or one of the others)...they have an adjustable EDFC they call it which adjust the dampers from the cockpit:buttrock

I always have heard good things about them :dunno

it's very difficult to check for a damaged damper unless you have it off the car and are testing it, as Jeddy pointed out...oil leaks are visible infractions for sure, as are perhaps bushing damage or a loose nut or bolt...otherwise you'd need to inspect the damper properly

Are the pistons "open" or do they have a dust cover? What part is bottoming out? Zip tie tests are always a good idea. I just leave the zip ties on all the time. One around each piston and one around one coil on each spring.