After i get a bit more experience under my belt i would like to start racing competitively in some kind of organization. i am referring to road course competition, not autox.

i've got a few questions about this:

at what point is a good point to start doing this (how do you know you're ready for this), or are there good places for novices to start? i am located in southern california and local would definitely be better.
where is a good starting point (organization/class) assuming my car is not stock (mods in sig)? i have heard good things about the scca organization, anyone know specifics?
anything to be aware of when going into competitive racing?
is a dedicated track only car necessary, or recommended?

If there's anything else you can think of i would appreciate any input on the topic.

Thanks!

The first place you should start? A driving school.

www.russellracing.com

Jim Russell racing/karting school is located on Infineon raceway in Sonoma, california (30 minutes north of SF). This is an excellent investment in your racing future, whether it is club level, or professional. They offer courses for all levels of experience. It really is quite a blast. I've been 3 times my self (counting run-offs).

Ryan

Run some HPDEs with NASA http://nasaproracing.com/ in So Cal if you haven't already done so with your M3 to see if you like it. If you do, I would suggest looking for a good deal on a used 3 series race car on the BMW CCA racing website http://www.bmwccaclubracing.com/static/index.htm or from classified adds in Grassroots Motorsports, Sports Car or Racer magazines and then going to the BMW school or the SCCA school http://www.calclub.com/. Next thing you know, you are a race car driver. That is how I did it.

...an oh yeah, bring your wallet.

In So Cal with a BMW, you have plent of opportunities to race with NASA, SCCA or BMW CCA. The BMW club is the best to allow you to run with equaly prepared cars and be competative no matter how much or how little it has been modified with Stock, Prepared, Modified and Super Modified classes.

SCCA has equivalent of (NASA) HPDEs now, called PDE (Performance Driving Experience). Do a few of these, then sign up for Time Trials. You can apparently sign up for a Novice TT liscence and attend a TT on the same day. If you want to go further, you can then get into Club Racing.

Look for more info through NASA or SCCA to get started.

I think the best way is to go back in time and beg your parents for a gocart, then a shifter cart. Eventually work your way up to a small formula series. Then on to bigger formula series or sports cars or touring cars.

But.........

I can't go back in time either and for some reason my parents thought I wanted to play basketball and baseball. HA! if only I could go back in time.

I would suggest doing some open track days, high speed touring, HPDE, etc... whatever the track wants to call it, they're pretty much all the same thing. Its free lapping with no passing on the corners and of course no time involved since your in a street car session. Go ahead and build your car to race specs and follow the rules of the series that you want to get into. Horsepower isn't everything, especially if it puts you in a sucky class.

2. Then do a race school. Dosesn't have to be expensive just something that the organization that you're trying to get into recognizes.

3. Race!

Thats my plan atleast. I'm still stuck at the First step. I haven't attended any driving schools, but I've been doing track days at the HMRC for a couple years now. I was building a car, but its on hold right now. considering trading the Nissan 240 for another bmw M3 because I like my daily driver M3 so much.

I pretty much agree with all the above. Since you are SoCal, things are easy.

1. Do some BMW Driving Schools (at least one), NASA HPDE Grp 1 and 2 (less $$, but less instruction)
2. Try a more open 'school' formats - NASA HPDE Grp 3 and 4, Driving Concepts, TrackMasters, Speed Ventures etc.
3. Take a racing school - Driiving Concepts has one every month or so at WSIR.
4. Get your racing licence.
5. *Rent* a race car and try some form of 13/13 or vintage rule racing. These forms focus on non-contact racing. Rent a car and decide if you *really* want to do this before sinking $$ into it.
6. Corner eveyone you met on a racing weekend for advice.
7. Corner everyone you know for support ($$) :D

Jworms, how old are you?

How big (or small) are you?

If you can, get karting now! Awesome bang for the buck, and you'll learn a lot, quickly.

Or you can jump right in, do a racing school 5 day program, go from there into a school run race series and see how you are.

Who has done the Jim Russel School? I got a gift of one day of the formula one experience and I am trying to pick a day to go back to Sonoma for it.

I won a one-day formula racecar experience from Russell and did it last March on a Monday. Still smile when I think back to it. I also got to combine it with being a guest instructor at the BMW club driving school and rented a Mini Cooper for the weekend and took that out on track. And, to boot, I was in SF for work that week so my job picked up the travel expenses.
bruce


Who has done the Jim Russel School? I got a gift of one day of the formula one experience and I am trying to pick a day to go back to Sonoma for it.

if your in a club on 13/13 rules be careful most of them wont cut you a break. Ask me how i know.

if your in a club on 13/13 rules be careful most of them wont cut you a break. Ask me how i know.

I'm interested to hear more...PM me to keep it offline, if you want.

I'm interested in getting into this as well. I, however, have more restrictions than most for at least the next few years. Being in the military, I will likely miss 30-60% of the races in any given season...

With that in mind, does all of the above apply? I have attended 1 HPDE and definately plan on attending more. I am also planning on starting with some auto-x using my SVO for at least a while, as well as pursuing my license. Is this a fair plan for the next 1-3 years, as I build up experience?

if your in a club on 13/13 rules be careful most of them wont cut you a break. Ask me how i know.


Precisely why you would want to join a 13/13 club. (BMW club, NASA). People are more careful (atleast try to be), so they dont get penalized....AKA trade paint. Let's face it, you dont want your car messed up, if you werent worried about it, you would race pro :)

Being on probation is not the end of the world. Suck it up and be more cautious out there. It certainly makes you think and make calculated moves. Certainly hitting someone else is not worth it when we are all racing for stickers. I was on probation all of last year because I went off alone at the glen and went into some tires :(

along this same subject:

Are there any cage builders in the Oklahoma/TX area that anybody reccommends? I'm concerned about price but also about quality. bolt in will just not cut it, I'm tall(6'5") and the bar is going to have to be close to the roof as possible. either that or a sit on the floor. I like the quality, safety, and customization of a welded cage also.

we are kinda fucked in america due to the fact racing is not in our culture, i mean real racing (nascar is not racing)
anyways parents if they want kids to be in sports want them to play baseball etc... not race. the problem is you have to get started very early and have alot of money.
i wanted to be a racecar driver when i was as young as i could remember watching indy on tv. of course we didnt have speed... well. bottom line. lots of money and your in.
if you are german, its in your blood, like the rest of europe.

After i get a bit more experience under my belt i would like to start racing competitively in some kind of organization. i am referring to road course competition, not autox.

i've got a few questions about this:

at what point is a good point to start doing this (how do you know you're ready for this), or are there good places for novices to start? i am located in southern california and local would definitely be better.
where is a good starting point (organization/class) assuming my car is not stock (mods in sig)? i have heard good things about the scca organization, anyone know specifics?
anything to be aware of when going into competitive racing?
is a dedicated track only car necessary, or recommended?

If there's anything else you can think of i would appreciate any input on the topic.

Thanks!
Autocrossing would be the first. SCCA website has all the details you want.

we are kinda fucked in america due to the fact racing is not in our culture, i mean real racing (nascar is not racing)
anyways parents if they want kids to be in sports want them to play baseball etc... not race. the problem is you have to get started very early and have alot of money.
i wanted to be a racecar driver when i was as young as i could remember watching indy on tv. of course we didnt have speed... well. bottom line. lots of money and your in.
if you are german, its in your blood, like the rest of europe.


Riiiiiight. :rolleyes

I forgot, in Europe you get issued a 125cc shifter cart when you turn six, and it's only a 20 dollar a month upgrade if you want to go to a formula ford. Top WTCC & DTM teams go to the high schools and scout kids when they're thirteen at their Junior Varsity formula 3 championships. F1 teams convince kids to skip college so they can be drafted for a top seat at a team like McLaren or Ferrari. There are no other sports in Europe, Soccer/football is just a small parlor game played by the elite.

"Oh, you have to have money and start early" - That's the same anywhere, and how it has been for the past 80 years, I hardly see how this is a US problem. Saying that "Racing is not in the American culture" is horseshit. Go down to your local 1/3 mile short track on a wednesday night and watch street stocks going around. Look at the guys running late models on Saturday nights. Look at the guys driving those pulling them up on an open trailer and a 30 year old pickup truck, tell me that they're just rolling in dough. Look at the 9-10 year olds racing quarter midgets and bandeleros and tell me that families don't want their kids racing.

Oh wait, I forgot, that's circle track, that's not "real" racing to you. Sitting on a message board bitching is real racing.

-Charlie

Riiiiiight. :rolleyes

I forgot, in Europe you get issued a 125cc shifter cart when you turn six, and it's only a 20 dollar a month upgrade if you want to go to a formula ford. Top WTCC & DTM teams go to the high schools and scout kids when they're thirteen at their Junior Varsity formula 3 championships. F1 teams convince kids to skip college so they can be drafted for a top seat at a team like McLaren or Ferrari. There are no other sports in Europe, Soccer/football is just a small parlor game played by the elite.

"Oh, you have to have money and start early" - That's the same anywhere, and how it has been for the past 80 years, I hardly see how this is a US problem. Saying that "Racing is not in the American culture" is horseshit. Go down to your local 1/3 mile short track on a wednesday night and watch street stocks going around. Look at the guys running late models on Saturday nights. Look at the guys driving those pulling them up on an open trailer and a 30 year old pickup truck, tell me that they're just rolling in dough. Look at the 9-10 year olds racing quarter midgets and bandeleros and tell me that families don't want their kids racing.

Oh wait, I forgot, that's circle track, that's not "real" racing to you. Sitting on a message board bitching is real racing.

-Charlie
If road-racing was in US's blood, At least two F1 races would be held here in the US every year. Explain that to me. The majority US consumers care alot more about the oval track NASCAR racing than twisty track races.

It was always about the horsepower and speed in the straights than handling.

As BMW drivers we should be ashamed that we don't have more road-track type of races on public TV.

I don't have Speed channel and that sucks. I'm cheap.

Whoopee!!!!!! 100 posts!
Thanks guys!

If road-racing was in US's blood, At least two F1 races would be held here in the US every year. Explain that to me. The majority US consumers care alot more about the oval track NASCAR racing than twisty track races.

There's one in Indianapolis, and one up in Montreal. That's two on the same continent for a series that is still largely European based. If there was a suitable venue and a sucker willing to pay Bernie's exorbinant prices, you would see a second race. After last years debacle at Indy, You will not find one. Long Beach didn't make money. Caesar's didn't make money. Detroit didn't make money. Frankly I'm surprised Indy has lasted as long as it did.

In the rest of the world, F1 is pretty much uncontested in terms of budget and promotional ability. In the US, we've got NASCAR with a very well polished promotional machine, a wonderful TV package, and ~36 races a year. The drivers are personable, clean cut and very marketable. This isn't a new phenomenon, 15-20 years ago you had US open wheel competing with F1 for US eyeballs. Back then you had a marketing machine with a bunch of household name drivers, it even had a bunch of ovals. It was when US open wheel started losing those "name" drivers and trying to emulate F1 with tighter street circuits and more no-names that they lost the US interest. Nascar grabbed the ball and ran with it. Open wheel stabbing themselves in the foot in 95 didn't help matters.

As for road racing, We've currently got Grand-Am, ALMS, Grand Am Cup and Speed World Challenge, all road racing series with TV packages. There were over 100 entries for VIR this past weekend in Grand Am cup, over 80 cars started. The Rolex series has fields over 55 routinely.

Look at the growth of a series like NASA, that alone will show you that there is definetly a vein of road racing in the US.

-Charlie