Ive PCd 2 BMWs and an Audi following Davids steps - amazing results.

Purchased a black 97 4Runner. I just got it clayed and started on the hood with yellow cutting pad, speed 6, with 3M Perfect-It II.

The pad turned black after the first 1/4 of the hood! The swirls are coming out but why is it turning black!? This has never happened to me....It HAS to be clearcoated since its a 97 right...Maybe the hood had alot of touchup paint but that shouldnt turn it this black???

Im thinking it must be the touchup paint but Im so dumbfounded.

My main concern is that whatevers getting on it to turn it black, will start scratching the car at a million RPMs.

What do you guys think?

Two options. First, it was repainted and you're taking off overspray. Second, and more likely - it's single stage paint (no clear layer on top). If that's the case you needn't worry. Single stage was used for decades before clears were used, and it's still used on some cars. In any event, I see paint on my pads on i'd say every 5th car I polish - don't worry about it, just clean the pad as normal.

Two options. First, it was repainted and you're taking off overspray. Second, and more likely - it's single stage paint (no clear layer on top). If that's the case you needn't worry. Single stage was used for decades before clears were used, and it's still used on some cars. In any event, I see paint on my pads on i'd say every 5th car I polish - don't worry about it, just clean the pad as normal.
Agreed.

It's probably just a single stage paint job. In fact, I'm sure it is. I believe to this day, toyota does not clear coat their black cars. I remember reading some Lexus IS threads talking about this.

Yep - IS black is still single stage, and most ES, GS, and SC black was until 1999 (I believe that was the year). Cheers.

i just want to clear up some confusion of my own. i know clear coat is just paint without the color basically but i thought it gave it more shine right? so why would they not clear their cars? especially on black ones! i know if you dont take care of it, it gets real swirly but still, isnt clear coat the way to go for all colors? and when detailing single stage paint, is there anything you need to do different? is it a lot harder to deal with? please explain this to me.

i just want to clear up some confusion of my own. i know clear coat is just paint without the color basically but i thought it gave it more shine right? so why would they not clear their cars? especially on black ones! i know if you dont take care of it, it gets real swirly but still, isnt clear coat the way to go for all colors? and when detailing single stage paint, is there anything you need to do different? is it a lot harder to deal with? please explain this to me.
The reason toyota gave for not using clear on their black cars was that they felt single stage looked deeper. They felt clearcoated black was too reflective for black.

In terms of clearcoat having more shine, I personally don't think that is the case. If I showed you two cars, same colour, one with clear the other with single stage, I doubt you'd see a huge diff, if any between the two.

Clear coat is not necessarily the way to go. You can achieve the same thing (in terms of shine, paint quality, etc) with a single stage vs. CC. The only thing with SS is that it can oxidize faster and would require more maintenace.

You don't need to do anything differently when detailing SS. It isn't any harder. In fact it can actually be easier because many SS paints are softer and easier to polish out. On the flip side of that they can also be easier to swirl up.

Thank you for the insight David, and everyone else. I just learned that many Asian cars (WRX, Lexus, etc) use SS paint for flat colors like black, yellow, red. So my 4Runner is in fact SS.

I am just wiping the black off the pad with a paper towel after each panel because it really builds up and turns into this tar-like goo.


I guess its going okay, but the 3M Perfect-It II is annoying me. Sometimes it leaves haze (like a million tiny swirls - not a fog-like haze). I cannot figure out WHY this happens, but when it does I have to go over it a few more times with a clean pad to fix it. There is ZERO dirt on the paint, ZERO dirt in the door jambs, perfectly clayed. Im dumbfounded, again. Is this due to not having enough compound on the paint???

Thanks guys for your help on this journey into the unknown!

i just want to clear up some confusion of my own. i know clear coat is just paint without the color basically but i thought it gave it more shine right? so why would they not clear their cars? especially on black ones! i know if you dont take care of it, it gets real swirly but still, isnt clear coat the way to go for all colors? and when detailing single stage paint, is there anything you need to do different? is it a lot harder to deal with? please explain this to me.

As David already mentioned there are advantages and disadvantages to each. If I could post links I'd link a little "what's the difference between single stage and clear coated paint" I have on my homepage, but alas.

Here is a copy and paste. :)

"Single stage paint is pigmented paint with the protective enamels of a “clear coat” mixed right into it. That means there is no layer on top of the pigmented paint, but it is still protected as if it was covered by a clear coat. These finishes can be buffed in the same way as a two stage paint job. Since the enamels move towards the top layer of the paint it is important to use the same kind of caution when buffing single stage paint as you would when buffing two stage paint. If you remove too much the paint will lose the protective benefits of the enamel and will oxidize."

Clear coats are used because over long periods of time they're more durable and because you can control the gloss of the car with them. Single stage jobs are kind of "what you spray is what you get". The advantage is that single stage jobs often look deeper, and often have less orange peel.

Cheers.

Thank you for the insight David, and everyone else. I just learned that many Asian cars (WRX, Lexus, etc) use SS paint for flat colors like black, yellow, red. So my 4Runner is in fact SS.

I am just wiping the black off the pad with a paper towel after each panel because it really builds up and turns into this tar-like goo.


I guess its going okay, but the 3M Perfect-It II is annoying me. Sometimes it leaves haze (like a million tiny swirls - not a fog-like haze). I cannot figure out WHY this happens, but when it does I have to go over it a few more times with a clean pad to fix it. There is ZERO dirt on the paint, ZERO dirt in the door jambs, perfectly clayed. Im dumbfounded, again. Is this due to not having enough compound on the paint???

Thanks guys for your help on this journey into the unknown!

It sounds like you're getting hazing. This is pretty common when using an aggressive pad and polish combo - the way to remove it is to follow up with a less aggressive combination of pad and polish. If this doesn't seem to be what you're experiencing it might also be that your pad is getting bogged down with product. Try cleaning it in water, and to dry it quickly hold the PC in a bucket with the pad on it, turn it to speed 6 and the water will fly off the pad and into the bucket.

Thank you for the insight David, and everyone else. I just learned that many Asian cars (WRX, Lexus, etc) use SS paint for flat colors like black, yellow, red. So my 4Runner is in fact SS.

I am just wiping the black off the pad with a paper towel after each panel because it really builds up and turns into this tar-like goo.


I guess its going okay, but the 3M Perfect-It II is annoying me. Sometimes it leaves haze (like a million tiny swirls - not a fog-like haze). I cannot figure out WHY this happens, but when it does I have to go over it a few more times with a clean pad to fix it. There is ZERO dirt on the paint, ZERO dirt in the door jambs, perfectly clayed. Im dumbfounded, again. Is this due to not having enough compound on the paint???

Thanks guys for your help on this journey into the unknown!
I'm thinking the dead paint you are removing is gumming up the pad and creating micro swirls. As Picus said, just followup after with a finer polish and pad combo and you should have clean and clear finish.

I used to lurk in this section a year or two ago under a friends account and there were much fewer responses in those days. Its definitely getting more traffic now, your responses have covered everything I needed to know!

I will be following up the Perfect-It II with Finesse-It II - both with yellow pads. Im hoping that will take care of the micro-maring. (Then AIO with white pad).

I just had to run to Lowes to exchange my PC because it quit randomly orbitaling! All set for the long haul now though. :D

Thanks again.

I used to lurk in this section a year or two ago under a friends account and there were much fewer responses in those days. Its definitely getting more traffic now, your responses have covered everything I needed to know!

I will be following up the Perfect-It II with Finesse-It II - both with yellow pads. Im hoping that will take care of the micro-maring. (Then AIO with white pad).

I just had to run to Lowes to exchange my PC because it quit randomly orbitaling! All set for the long haul now though. :D

Thanks again.
No problem! Let us know how it works out.

Agreed.

toyota does not clear coat their black cars. I remember reading some Lexus IS threads talking about this.

Very true... when i did my moms 4Runner i had black paint all over the pads. Like a few guys have already mentioned... its more than likely a single stage paint.

Willie

No problem! Let us know how it works out.
I forgot to update...I havent sealed it yet but it came out good.

I used:

Meruires Gold Class Car Wash
Wolfgang Clay
Wash again
3M Perfect It 2 with Yellow Pad
3M Finesse It 2 with Yellow Pad
Klasse AIO with White Pad

I was getting some micro-maring? maybe? with the Finesse It 2 as well. Im suspecting it could have been the pad being too abrasive for the paint. The AIO seemed to help fix this a bit but Ill have to see how it looks after I wash it and after I SG it.

The pad + polish combo you were using is relatively aggressive, so I wouldn't be surprised to see some hazing/micro marring. AIO probably isn't the best bet to clear that up since it's so light. Maybe get a light-medium abrasive polish (ssr2, sfx-2, FPII, Megs 80, Opt polish, etc, etc...) to clear it up, then use AIO, or use the Finesse it II on a polishing pad *after* the yellow pad to help clear some of the hazing up.

If the AIO and polishing pad is not removing the hazing, then FI2 on a polishing pad should clean it up. The yellow pad plus FI and PI combo will definitley leave some hazing behind.