For those of you that went to Las Vegas for the BMWCCA school last week, I'd like a little input.

I've got an e36 M3 with stock motor (sans intake). Going into 4 I'd downshift into 3rd and then run flat until the braking zone for turn 5 where I'd keep it in 3rd. Turn 9 I'd drop into 2nd which provided great torque out of it but in turns 4 and 5, 3rd gear just would not do it and 2nd seemed a bit short there and I really didn't play much with shifting into 2nd there during the weekend.

Now, I came across a thread in the e36 M3 forum about replacing the Vanos solonoid and I thought that possibly this could be part of the problem and I could in fact be missing some power down in the lower end. I posted in hopes for some feedback in terms of the track so I can compare a bit. I may go ahead and replace the solonoid but wanted to see how others in e36 M3s went through those turns.

Thanks!

I could tell you, but then I have to kill you.
I have an MZ3, so I don't know if my input might help.
Did you have fun? We were at SMMP in Pahrump with Speedventures.
We'll be at LVMS in June.

Did you happen to check your RPMs in T4 and T5? With stock gearing, you're just low in your powerband there, so 3rd gear tends to take a while to wind up. I doubt it's your vanos.

In an E36M3, second gear is really nice out of those two corners, BUT you will be forced to upshift as you're tracking out, before the car is straight. It's a matter of preference in a school environment. Second gear is more fun, but third is more conducive to being smooth and your RPM at the end of the short straight between 4 and 5 would be the only real way to tell if either is quicker.

What tent/group were you in? I remember a couple of white E36M3s there.

I could tell you, but then I have to kill you.
I have an MZ3, so I don't know if my input might help.
Did you have fun? We were at SMMP in Pahrump with Speedventures.
We'll be at LVMS in June.

:lol

Had a GREAT time, finally got my Bilsteins and H&R Sports on and ran with new Kosei's and RA1s. What a difference over old and worn suspension and street tires. The track seemed "choppy" at first but figured out some fluid lines on 4 and 13 that seemed to work well and really enjoyed it. Fun watching military jets fly in and out of Nellis in between sessions too. I need to get out to Pahrump someday. I've run with SpeedVentures at Buttonwillow before.

Did you happen to check your RPMs in T4 and T5? With stock gearing, you're just low in your powerband there, so 3rd gear tends to take a while to wind up. I doubt it's your vanos.

In an E36M3, second gear is really nice out of those two corners, BUT you will be forced to upshift as you're tracking out, before the car is straight. It's a matter of preference in a school environment. Second gear is more fun, but third is more conducive to being smooth and your RPM at the end of the short straight between 4 and 5 would be the only real way to tell if either is quicker.

What tent/group were you in? I remember a couple of white E36M3s there.

I don't recall what I was at in those turns. I would hit 7,000 before T4 and have to go into 4, then in the braking zone drop into 3rd which definately took a while to wind up but like you noted, seemed the smoother way to go. That became a busy corner as speed increased. I just started thinking about it after that other thread about the solonoid and it being the source of the low torque. But in T9 in 2nd, I'd launch out and have to shift to 3rd right before track out.

Red tent, B group. Mines a sedan.

What group and number were you? I'll look and see if I have any pictures.

Red tent, B group. Mines a sedan.


hi. i was in the red tent b group as well. i had the tiag e46 m3. :wave

i pretty much just kept in 3rd/4th gear the entire day on saturday as i was trying learn the line and make sure i was consistent. on sunday, i played around with the gears and went to 2nd in T4 and T5. however, it was much more busy shifting back and forth for a little bit more power.

interlocker was an instructor in the blue tent and drives a silver e36 m3. getting a ride with him though, he also carried WAAAAY more speed than i do in turns, thus he might not have needed to down shift to 2nd as much.

edit: i should caveat my comments with the fact that this is just what i did, and i am in no way qualified to give proper instruction. :)

Thank *God* we are not talking about T13 any more! :)
As one of your classroom instructors, I think we covered the 'check your revs' guide for gear selection.
I found in my 325is I needed 2nd out of T5, but i could carry good speed thru T4 with 3rd.

I will say this however. Braking into T4 should be done straight, avoiding the curbs as much as possible. This should give you plenty of time to make 2 downshifts ( or 1 4-2 downshift) if you need it. By planning my brake and downshifts for T5, I had plenty of time too.

First rule - relax. Plan your actions, look ahead, think ahead, and you'll have plenty of time.

Since you mentioned T13........nah, just kidding!

I didn't like the feel of 2nd through T4 but then 3rd was just a bit slow. I should have played with 2nd a bit more but 3rd was comfortable and smooth.

Really enjoyed the classroom sessions. By the way, do you have a copy of your book list that you could PM me or post?

Post up your car numbers, I'll see if I have any photos. My dad came out with us and took a bunch on both days.

Great! I was 223, silver M3 w/Koseis. Let me know if you have anything. :D

I was 360, but they only gave one set of numbers.
David Mecey and I were *this* close to getting a black flag Sunday, because the corner workers thought I didn' have any numbers.

When we heard, we thought it would have been funny to pull in, and say.."so who are you guys ? Do I have to pay someone , or something"

.."so who are you guys ? Do I have to pay someone , or something"

I'm sure that would have raised some eyebrows.

Wow, that was a fun weekend.

In my E46 sedan with 3.07 gears I was definitely in 2nd through turn 4, and in turn 9 I was able to keep it in the powerband in 3rd, for what it's worth.

I was in the steel blue E46 Sedan with gold colored wheels. I was in C group on Saturday, and the B group on Sunday. Car # was 40.

I'd love to see some photos of my car on the track... Had a great time, just got to learn alot more. Looking forward to upcoming days in May and June with the BMWCCA. I'm hoping by the end of the year I'll actually be comfortable driving in the B group, Sunday was my first day, and I kind of got ahead of myself in turn 7 in the third session and spun out... No harm, no foul though, I guess. But I still felt like a total jackass...

Post up your car numbers, I'll see if I have any photos. My dad came out with us and took a bunch on both days.

I was in silver e46 m3. Car #9 in your run group. Thanks.

I was in the steel blue E46 Sedan with gold colored wheels.

What else have you done to that car... Just exhaust? It sounded a lot like one of Turner's old E46s that was out at Laguna Seca in January. Sounded nice, but I have to imagine it's LOUD on the street?

Post up your car numbers, I'll see if I have any photos. My dad came out with us and took a bunch on both days.

Hey Reed,

Got your PM, but your mailbox is full. My e-mail address is liuk3@yahoo.com.

Thanks,
Ken

What else have you done to that car... Just exhaust? It sounded a lot like one of Turner's old E46s that was out at Laguna Seca in January. Sounded nice, but I have to imagine it's LOUD on the street?

It's funny that you say that, because I moved out here from Boston, and TMS did all of the head-work and exhaust-work. I'm not surprised it sounded like his car, that was our intention, I guess... they did a wonderful job prepping the car. I've been very happy with it so far. Now, I just need to learn how to drive it properly. :help

My instructor was giving me major attitude on Sunday, as to why someone with my level of skill would build such a "Frankenstein of a car" without knowing how to drive it to it's potential. I asked him why he thought I signed up for the school. Duh!

Performance wise, I've done:

Intake
Conforti Software
Dinan Throttle Body
Shrick Cams
Ported/Polished Head
Supersprint Headers
Supersprint Race Cats
Rogue Engineering Exhaust
3.07 LSD
Underdrive Pullies

That's about all I can think of. If there's any more, I'll let you know. Yes, it's WAY too loud for the street. I have an Audi A3 that I use daily...

Performance wise, I've done:

well thank you for taking care of the driver part, last weekend.
Welcome to addiction ...

I was in the steel blue E46 Sedan with gold colored wheels.

So YOU WERE THE GUY holding us up in the first Sunday Session...

My friend Raffi and I basically had to sit back and watch the antics unfold in front of us while you and the Red E46 M3 were trying to "duke it out". Raffi had literally drove half the session at 4/10th trying not to rear end you guys, while on the straights, the two of you just put the lead foot down, thus making it virtually impossible for us to get by.

Way to go, I can assure you that was probably a lot more fun for you guys that it was for us. :rolleyes

It's funny that you say that, because I moved out here from Boston, and TMS did all of the head-work and exhaust-work. I'm not surprised it sounded like his car, that was our intention, I guess... they did a wonderful job prepping the car. I've been very happy with it so far. Now, I just need to learn how to drive it properly. :help

My instructor was giving me major attitude on Sunday, as to why someone with my level of skill would build such a "Frankenstein of a car" without knowing how to drive it to it's potential. I asked him why he thought I signed up for the school. Duh!

Performance wise, I've done:

Intake
Conforti Software
Dinan Throttle Body
Shrick Cams
Ported/Polished Head
Supersprint Headers
Supersprint Race Cats
Rogue Engineering Exhaust
3.07 LSD
Underdrive Pullies

That's about all I can think of. If there's any more, I'll let you know. Yes, it's WAY too loud for the street. I have an Audi A3 that I use daily...conventional wisdom says you should start with a stock car and work your self up before modding the car, youll be faster in the long run that way. But it's good that you are getting some instruction now.

So YOU WERE THE GUY holding us up in the first Sunday Session...

My friend Raffi and I basically had to sit back and watch the antics unfold in front of us while you and the Red E46 M3 were trying to "duke it out". Raffi had literally drove half the session at 4/10th trying not to rear end you guys, while on the straights, the two of you just put the lead foot down, thus making it virtually impossible for us to get by.

Way to go, I can assure you that was probably a lot more fun for you guys that it was for us. :rolleyesHey HACK, was that Raffi the instructor? E46 330? He's been my instructor, and took me around Willow Springs in that car. Good driver.

If you are slow in the corners, and the guys behind you are on your ass at track out, you should let them by. I followed a Z06 around Willow Springs for about two laps, catching him in every mid-corner, only to have him walk me on the straights. It's frustrating because the corners are where the learning takes place, not the straights.

I've had students that displayed mAd SkilZ on the str8ts !! :)

So YOU WERE THE GUY holding us up in the first Sunday Session...

My friend Raffi and I basically had to sit back and watch the antics unfold in front of us while you and the Red E46 M3 were trying to "duke it out". Raffi had literally drove half the session at 4/10th trying not to rear end you guys, while on the straights, the two of you just put the lead foot down, thus making it virtually impossible for us to get by.

Way to go, I can assure you that was probably a lot more fun for you guys that it was for us. :rolleyes

Good thing for Raffi my car already Broke or I would have been behind Raffi waiting for him to get out of my way!!!!!!!!!!

All in all this was a good weekend, except breaking my Tranny. I was able to get the car home, but it sits in the garage with no MONEY!

Anyway, I was Instructing in the Red Tent (I think it was Red) I had Bim Growl on Sat, made great improvement in the last session and a minor tweak to suspension made things feel much better.

As far as myself, I have 3.15 rear end, so I was actually using 2nd, pretty much everywhere, T2, T4, T5, T9, T12, T13, T14 (depending on traffic) Course this may have helped in the demise of my tranny.

I was 278, with the Big Wing and Neon Orange Graphics, if anyone has pics!

Sorry to hear about the tranny. Keep your eyes on the classified section, as cars are often being parted out over there, or people have leftovers from upgrades.

That IS a lot of second gear... A LOT! :D While I never had to go below 3rd gear, I forgot to mention that I'm running a 3.64 diff. That track seemed to be built for that particular gearing... It was a blast.

One thing that surprised me about the weekend was the rumor of a Lotus owner leaving after the first session, complaining that the track was useless and too much like an autox. Personally, that would've been one of my top 3 cars I'd want on that track.:dunno

So YOU WERE THE GUY holding us up in the first Sunday Session...

My friend Raffi and I basically had to sit back and watch the antics unfold in front of us while you and the Red E46 M3 were trying to "duke it out". Raffi had literally drove half the session at 4/10th trying not to rear end you guys, while on the straights, the two of you just put the lead foot down, thus making it virtually impossible for us to get by.

Way to go, I can assure you that was probably a lot more fun for you guys that it was for us. :rolleyes

WOW. I apologize!!! I really wish you came up to me at the end of that session to let me know what I was doing wrong. My instructor didn't tell me anything about pointing more people by, because I already was doing so!

Yeah, I guess that WAS me. I was giving people point-bys as much as possible. I wasn't trying to "duke it out" with anyone, so I apologize if I was offending you. I was pointing people by at nearly every straight section on Sunday.

A couple of things to keep in mind, please:

Yes, unfortunately, I'm relatively new at this. I understand there are people with hundreds of days out there at the same time. People whose skills far surpass mine. I guess we call these guys "instructors"?

I didn't ask to be put into the B group. Like Matt said, I did very well learning the line and being as smooth as possible on Saturday, so he felt it was appropriate at the end of the day, and so did the leader of the run group. I really really enjoyed driving and riding with him. I learned an incredible amount on Saturday, and loved having Matt as my instructor. I felt like we clicked right away. I know that he felt that the car was driving me 90% of the time, but he was nice about it, put those feelings on the back burner, and really focused on teaching ME how to drive. I really really appreciated his instructing style, and attitude throughout the day. He's a great communicator, and to me, that makes an excellent instructor. Thanks Matt.

Yes, unfortunately, I have already built a car to drive on the track. I built the car prior to getting into track driving, so in that regard I'll be the first to admit it was a bit, umm shall we say, "presumptuous" on my part... But the question becomes what to do? I'm certainly not going to part out or sell the car. I'm going to enjoy it to the most of my abilities, and I'm sure my abilities will grow as I continue to enjoy these events...

I assume you're an instructor? God forbid that you have to take a car out during a student session and drive 4/10ths... Oh, the horror for you. Talk to the event organizers about having instructor only sessions or discuss other options, otherwise I'm assuming you'd get frustrated quite a bit at these events behind the noobs like myself. Yeah, seriously, that sucks being frustrated doing something you love. I'm sorry I caused it.

Thanks for the attitude. It doesn't leave a novice student (who's doing everything he can to suck up as much information as he can) a very favorable impression on the event or the community. If my experience on Sunday and now on this board is any indication of how the regional BMWCCA driving community feels, then I think I'd rather drive back to the Boston Chapter for a driving event, where people understand the perspective of the student, and don't share the big ego and attitude. It doesn't leave a very favorable impression and doesn't do much to encourage others to want to learn to be better around you.

Were you born with the innate ability to go faster than everyone around you? If so, great. If not, please reflect on what it's like to be a novice again...

To close, I'll just say I'm sorry, and I'll try and stay out of your way at the next event...

Bim Growl,

Just blow off The Hack. He does not seem to know that courtesy is a two way street and it does not end after the last session. I was instructing there and know that the core instructor group does not think a public attack is appropriate in this situation.

As a beginner the first thing that you are taught is track etiquette. Giving a point by is one of first lessons your instructor is supposed to teach you as a newbie. Your instructors biggest mistake was moving you up to a group you are not ready for. You will find that with more track time you will become more comfortable with the environment allowing you to focus attention on what is happening behind the car while still keeping a good pace.

The Hack had options. A slow sixty second pass thru the hot pit would have given him all the clear track he needed. His greater experience should mean that he can find ways get some quality track time without abusing the customers.

I was instructing there and know that the core instructor group does think a public attack is appropriate in this situation.

Please tell me you mean't "*doesn't* think a public attack is appropriate".

Otherwise I agree. I tend to use those 'opportunities' to teach something. Like looking for a passing opportunity and presenting the car for a pass. Or if I'm in the car that is creating a train, or just not ready to drive as quickly as other cars in the group, keeping their eye's up, and aware of cars behind, in front, and sometimes beside them...

Please tell me you mean't "*doesn't* think a public attack is appropriate".

Oops. You are correct in your assumption.

...without abusing the customers.

Dood I'm a customer myself.:mad

I have to add, that if all we complain about is a little mis-communication between cars of varying speeds, then lets mark this as a very successful weekend.

As one who has sadly witnessed several deaths at the track in the past couple of years (not all Schools, and never a BMW event), several roll-overs, and numerous off-track excursions, this was a tidy weekend. Only one wide-ride off T6 for someone in an E46, as far as I recall.

I was Bim's instructor on Sat. We were running in the C group and doing quite well, I don't think a single person passed up, maybe 1 or 2 instructors that were running in that group.

Based on his ability and the size of the groups, I recommended that we move him up to the B group, which, from what I saw both driving in and watching, it looked like he was doing fine. I watched the first session and saw Bim passing several folks, as well as letting others by, which is pretty much how it should be.

If a few missed point by's and my broken tranny were the biggest things of the weekend, great, but I do know of 2 other offs, minor, but still offs. That Italian car spun coming out of 4 at the end of Sat, and a White E36, didn't make the jog to the left for 12, and went straight off on the inside, bringing gravel up on the track. Corner workers thought it was me, as I was the next car there, but it was all good.

I think it turned out to be a good school even though it cost me $500 to get home. :-(