This is my second season of Autox and I have recently acquired a 97 M3 coupe, I gave up on my Non M030 968. The current setup is for B Stock and I would like to remain there. The car has adjustable Konis on 4 corners and an alignment that I don't know if I like yet, not really sure exactly what it is but was told by the PO that it was slighlty toed out up front, and had negative camber removed in the rear. It still pushes pretty hard in the exit with power on and will snap oversteer on long sweeper if you let off the throttle (reminds me of a 911 I owned). I have stock bars, front and rear. Any advice on getting this thing to turn and stick would be appriciated. I am running staggered 17" LTW with A3s05's 245 all the way around.

Thanks in advance.

First things first... examine all of the bushings. Rear Trailing arm bushings and front control arm bushings (as well as the control arms themselves). Worn bushings can / will have you chasing your tail in handling issues. Replacing them with OEM will help significantly.

For BS you are really limited to a front swaybar... large is what everyone seems to run... and dampers.

On alignment, front camber is pretty much non-adjustable. Toe-out will help with turn-in.
In the rear, camber is adjustable (eccentric on lower arm), but you have to stay in factory specs for B-stock. Slight toe-in to 0 toe is what most run.

First things first... examine all of the bushings. Rear Trailing arm bushings and front control arm bushings (as well as the control arms themselves). Worn bushings can / will have you chasing your tail in handling issues. Replacing them with OEM will help significantly.

For BS you are really limited to a front swaybar... large is what everyone seems to run... and dampers.

On alignment, front camber is pretty much non-adjustable. Toe-out will help with turn-in.
In the rear, camber is adjustable (eccentric on lower arm), but you have to stay in factory specs for B-stock. Slight toe-in to 0 toe is what most run.

The bushings look good and the suspension is tight. This brings up the other question, what rear shock mounts to use. Do I have to stay with oem or can I go with a slightly better or HD model? Can anyone recommend a good sway bar, the only ones I find come in pairs and BS is only allowed front bars.

There is also an OEM Crash bolt for the front, it was intended to get wrecked cars back in factory spec, but I have heard of it used for negative camber up front, can anyone comment on this?

You will definitely miss the almost unlimited adjustability of the 968 suspension.

Crash bolts for sure. They are part of a BMW published service advisory (don't remember what number off the top of my head) and are legal in BStock. You can gain close to 1 degree of negative camber up front with them.

BTW, how the hell did you manage to mount 245's up front? My damn 225 Hoosiers rub against the shocks if I don't use 5mm spacers.

Swap the hats up front, and buy a good set of brake pads.


Do a search for username....John V.

He did a write up about everything you are looking for. John's an awesome driver and did quite well in his M3...

Crash bolts for sure. They are part of a BMW published service advisory (don't remember what number off the top of my head) and are legal in BStock. You can gain close to 1 degree of negative camber up front with them.

BTW, how the hell did you manage to mount 245's up front? My damn 225 Hoosiers rub against the shocks if I don't use 5mm spacers.
Unfortunately, crash bolts aren't legal (nor is swapping the hats or shimming the struts).

245s fit fine (even 245/45s) with a 35mm offset, 7.5" wide wheel on a B Stock M3.

Porsche968: This (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=253505) is the thread you need to read on this subject.

Unfortunately, crash bolts aren't legal (nor is swapping the hats or shimming the struts).

245s fit fine (even 245/45s) with a 35mm offset, 7.5" wide wheel on a B Stock M3.

Porsche968: This (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=253505) is the thread you need to read on this subject.
Definitely check that thread out. I've basically built my car to those specs. I would suggest a larger front bar as mentioned before. I just installed an H&R bar and love it.

The bushings look good and the suspension is tight.

Have they been replaced? If the car has over 50k and they are original, they are pretty much done.

This brings up the other question, what rear shock mounts to use. Do I have to stay with oem or can I go with a slightly better or HD model?

You have to stay OEM. However... most people can't tell the difference between an E36 and an E46 rear shock mount

There is also an OEM Crash bolt for the front, it was intended to get wrecked cars back in factory spec, but I have heard of it used for negative camber up front, can anyone comment on this?

From everything I've seen, there is no 'official' technical service bulletin (TSB) from BMW stating that these can be used. Since there isn't a TSB, you can't use them. Now, BMW has them, and they use them... but I've never seen anyone with the docs.

The bushings look good and the suspension is tight. This brings up the other question, what rear shock mounts to use. Do I have to stay with oem or can I go with a slightly better or HD model? Can anyone recommend a good sway bar, the only ones I find come in pairs and BS is only allowed front bars.

There is also an OEM Crash bolt for the front, it was intended to get wrecked cars back in factory spec, but I have heard of it used for negative camber up front, can anyone comment on this?
I put HD RSM's on and picked up this bar, http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=70910

I put HD RSM's on and picked up this bar, http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=70910
Then your car is in BSP. :p

Then your car is in BSP. :p
aw crap... well, they're coming off then... :(

From everything I've seen, there is no 'official' technical service bulletin (TSB) from BMW stating that these can be used. Since there isn't a TSB, you can't use them. Now, BMW has them, and they use them... but I've never seen anyone with the docs.
Correct. BMW NA even publishes the information, instructions and the part numbers, but won't do so on a piece of paper with a BMW logo.

Edit: This is due to some refusal to admit liability for problems encountered with the e36 cars when they were new. Not sure exactly what the liability issue was.

aw crap... well, they're coming off then... :(
This is going to sound hugely hypocritical since I was complaining about cheating in another thread, but I've got aftermarket RSMs on my car and I run in B Stock. It's one of those technical illegalities that offers no significant performance benefit. It was a maintenance/convenience modification, and anyone who protests you over it at anything less than a National event (and possibly even then) would be a huge weenie.

However, I'm not at all competitive beyond the regional level, and if a competitor did ever take issue with it, I'd either correct it or live with the consequences. For now the aftermarket RSMs stay, and I can live with the fact that if I were to show up in Topeka and win BS by .002 seconds and get protested, that I'd have nobody but myself to blame.

Of course if you revert to OE RSMs you probably only have to worry about them every few years and you can still sleep at night knowing that you're 100% legal.

Thanks for all the great information. Doubt if I will spend the money on an exhaust to save 25 lb, I'll just go on a diet. Looks like a nice adjustable sway is on the way soon. Does anyone have one that they would like to part with?

You will definitely miss the almost unlimited adjustability of the 968 suspension.

Crash bolts for sure. They are part of a BMW published service advisory (don't remember what number off the top of my head) and are legal in BStock. You can gain close to 1 degree of negative camber up front with them.

BTW, how the hell did you manage to mount 245's up front? My damn 225 Hoosiers rub against the shocks if I don't use 5mm spacers.

Yes I will miss some about the 968, not my favorite Porsche but was a really nice car. Every Porsche that I have owned had good and bad. I finally decided to go with the M3 because we have NO Porsche dealer in Arkansas and I have several friends with M3's and I just gave in to peer pressure:nutz: .

The 245's with do rub the strut housing a little with 5mm spacers. I just have it setup the way the PO had it setup and usually had best PAX. I may end up going to 225's up front if they rub my new hoosier's too much. The tires are way to expensive cording on the side of the strut housing. He now has a BS RX8 and kills me, he is a great driver and of course has best PAX at all events locally:alright .

This gives me mixed reviews about the crash bolt:help . Think I may give them a try, I will not be competitive in BS other than with my friends and it should save on the fast wear on the shoulders of my tires.

while RSMs are not a big deal, crash bolts imho ARE something protestable. id skip em if youre serious about Bstock.

and in my local club, there are two national level competitors in BS, an e36 M3 and an RX8. its a battle, but the M3 normally comes through. so its certainly capable. and both cars are definately completely legal

i'd recommend STU though for the most cheap fun :P i will say its a battle against those STis

while RSMs are not a big deal, crash bolts imho ARE something protestable. id skip em if youre serious about Bstock.

and in my local club, there are two national level competitors in BS, an e36 M3 and an RX8. its a battle, but the M3 normally comes through. so its certainly capable. and both cars are definately completely legal

i'd recommend STU though for the most cheap fun :P i will say its a battle against those STis
If you can get your hands on the proper documentation to back up the crash bolts, it's a non-issue. Meaning you have proof that it's legal. Some say that the documentation exists but I've never seen it. I'll ask Bob Tunnel this weekend at the Walnut Ridge Pro Solo. RSM's are NOT LEGAL, period. I'm not saying you couldn't get away with it and locally, I could care less. It's a pain changing RSM's every 2k miles so, I see it as a convenience issue rather than a performance advantage. Although, some people run for contingency money, and if you are beating them and they know you're not legal, expect a protest.

The RX8 is 300lbs lighter than an M3 at race weight, can get 69mph out of 2nd gear and has more front & rear camber in stock configuration. Yes the RX8 doesn't have any torque thus, depending on the lot & course can be beat by an M3. But the top 10 B Stock cars, out of 32, at the 2005 Nationals were RX8's. That's hard to argue.