Im gonna go check this out next week, and wondering if anybody can throw some advice or help out to me. Im looking for a sports sedan and to spend about 10K-12K on. Its come to either looking for an audi a6, or what I would prefer this 1991 M5. Its absolutely perfect looking, inside and out, black on black, all stock, and all receipts kept. It has 83K miles on it, and they are asking 10k for it, and I think this would be perfect for what I want. Ive currently got a 94 325, that Im learning on, and I think doing well. (which I will probably sell after I get something else.) Would anyone be able to compare these two, or tell me what I need to look out for? What I should expect to go wrong soon? Is this even a decent price? etc etc... Thanks.

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What do you mean you are learning on a 94 325?

If the car is as you say, that is a very good price. Almost too good. I would very highly recomend taking it to a quality independent shop for a pre purchase inspection, some M5 parts are more expensive due to their rarity. I'll let the guys that know chime in on the problems, but all E34s have issues with their suspension, if it has a shimmy around 50 MPH you need new thrust arms. A6 vs M5, that's pretty apples to oranges, isn't it? For $10k you're probably looking at 2.8L V6 A6s, and they're total slugs. The 2.7T 6 speed is a nice car, but quite a bit more than $10k, and they like to eat turbos. Even then, it's not nearly as sporty of a sedan as an M5.

The a6 can be much faster than the m5 with mods. Sport seats in the m5 are uncomfortable on long trips if you are a big guy.

325 to M5 completely different. That is except for the head unit. Different road feel, shift points, steering wheel, suspension character, they are 2 distinctly different cars. If you are just learning to drive a manual I would say drive that three for a while before you decide to get something sportier.

The a6 can be much faster than the m5 with mods. Sport seats in the m5 are uncomfortable on long trips if you are a big guy.

Not the 2.8L V6, and that's the engine that probably falls into his price range. There are SC kits for the Audi V6, but for that money you can turbo the M5 and the Audi won't have a chance. Yes, a 2.7T with a chip would have a power advantage, but it is also a much heavier car. It might win a drag race, but on a track, there's no way in hell. Don't get me wrong, I like Audis, but an A6 is a sporty luxury car, while the M5 is a 4 door sports car.

Considering that you are the only, as in ONE, person I have seen complain about the sports seats, you really shouldn't make such broad statements. Most people like them far better than the standard seats, I sure do.

Thanks for the links beastmaster, I searched here, but and I dont like reposts myself, but Its nice when someone can help save alot of search time.
If audi it would have to be 2.7t quattro manual. Yeah I know going price is about 15K on those, but Ive seen a few fall into what would be what Id want and have about 70K-90K miles. I could look everywhere till I found the one I would pounce on.
Well Id like a luxury sports sedan, emphasis on sports, and feeling like ive drivin a nice variety of domestics and imports, having two bmws so far I assume the handling would be great on any model. I can drive a manual just fine, I actually refuse to buy another automatic for now. Im not much of a drag strip guy, I prefer turns and road courses. When I said noob, I meant mechanicly. Im trying to do my own repairs, and have started with complete suspension upgrade, and basic diy fixxes.
As far as audi a new job is gonna keep me moving, possibly where theres plenty of snow, and I know the benefit of quattro in that weather.
Im not that big of a guy, 200lbs at 6'0. But I like to drive with my legs and arms almost straight, with seat back straight up. With the seat all the way back in my 325 I barely feel comfortable because of head room.

I came out of an '01 S4 and bought my e34 M5. I have driven many A6's and was pretty into the whole AWD Audi thing for a while... the stock K03 turbo's are problematic (if you are looking at a 2.7t) and show no indication that they are gonna go. The 2.8 is a pig and is always coupled with an auto if memory serves.

Now, an 80k M5 for $10-12? Almost too good to be true. Be suspicious. I spent $18 on mine and that was after a year of looking in the $11-15 range. These things can be beaten HARD and stll clean up well, in which case they are money pits the likes of which the 325 aint shown you yet.

As far as driving the Audi and the M5? My S4 had a lot going for it but it isn't even in the same ballpark as the M5. The M5 is bigger (much), more comfortable, better controls and layout and is simply faster stock for stock. In comparison, the Audi actually has a lot of the 'raw' feel that you hear M5 owners always talking about. The Audi is better around town (again, referring to the S4, not an A6...did I mention the A6 is a pig?) and the AWD is amazing pulling out a corner at WOT but the RWD has its own merits.

In short, the A6 is a luxo-pig even with the 2.7t, the S4 is worth considering for a DD in non-highway commutes and a turbo failure puts you in the same realm of money-pit as a bad M5. The M5 wins hands down in most situations...IMO.

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a new job is gonna keep me moving, possibly where theres plenty of snow, and I know the benefit of quattro in that weather.


You just answered your own question.
Find a nice quattro.

I would NEVER slog my beautiful M5 around in the muck.:nono

You just answered your own question.
Find a nice quattro.

I would NEVER slog my beautiful M5 around in the muck.:nono

Once I get either an m5 or audi, I will most likely sell my 325, and use that towards a truck or suv, even if I get the audi. If I had to garage the nice one for a few months I could live with that, and just use it as leisurely upgrade time. I will know where Im going before I buy anything though.

I came out of an '01 S4 and bought my e34 M5. I have driven many A6's and was pretty into the whole AWD Audi thing for a while... the stock K03 turbo's are problematic (if you are looking at a 2.7t) and show no indication that they are gonna go. The 2.8 is a pig and is always coupled with an auto if memory serves.

Now, an 80k M5 for $10-12? Almost too good to be true. Be suspicious. I spent $18 on mine and that was after a year of looking in the $11-15 range. These things can be beaten HARD and stll clean up well, in which case they are money pits the likes of which the 325 aint shown you yet.

As far as driving the Audi and the M5? My S4 had a lot going for it but it isn't even in the same ballpark as the M5. The M5 is bigger (much), more comfortable, better controls and layout and is simply faster stock for stock. In comparison, the Audi actually has a lot of the 'raw' feel that you hear M5 owners always talking about. The Audi is better around town (again, referring to the S4, not an A6...did I mention the A6 is a pig?) and the AWD is amazing pulling out a corner at WOT but the RWD has its own merits.

In short, the A6 is a luxo-pig even with the 2.7t, the S4 is worth considering for a DD in non-highway commutes and a turbo failure puts you in the same realm of money-pit as a bad M5. The M5 wins hands down in most situations...IMO.

If I could afford an s4 id be one, but thats about twice my budget, currently to nice for me. Im searching for money-pit problems and dont see much except for early 90s bmw suspension problems, bushings and next model fixxes. Im searching but are there any models or years that are just problematic? Id like to be able to do all the work myself. Ill have access to a garage with all the tools I would need, (pneumatic, and a lift). I think my modest estimate is about 600-1000 available a month to upgrade (atleast for 6 months). I think my order of upgrades are always the same: suspension, mild engine, (intake exhaust chip, nothing much), brakes, interior/exterior, and then engine. When doing upgrades, Id prefer to spend too much getting something that I know will be enough for my use, (ie light race suspension, for something Ill drive a little heavy, and track maybe a couple times a year).

If you will have a beater then there is an easy answer to your question:

If the M5 checks out buy it. That is a great price for a rare car.

For a car with 80k this would be my list:

Check self-leveling suspension (expensive to repair if you want to keep it, many remove it for aftermarket)
Waterpump should be replaced every 60k, along with belts and hoses (has it been done?)
Check radiator neck for cracks (mine lasted 200k but they can fail)
There may be oil seepage at front engine cover (chain tensioner) and rear of head (oil return pipe) not big deals but common (you can replace tensioner with S52 tensioner)
Oil pan gasket
Tranny and engine seals
A/C (mine gave up at 100k)
Have them check charging system
Suspension may be up for refresh at about 100k unless prior maintenance has been done

Be prepared to spend at least a couple grand a year in maintenance and/or toys for it. It is well worth it.

On your test drive make sure the oil temp is up past 140 degrees and then make sure it spends a lot of time north of 5000rpm.

A good test of the engines strength is a 3rd gear punch at about 85mph and then stand on the brakes to see how the car tracks.

You just answered your own question.
Find a nice quattro.

I would NEVER slog my beautiful M5 around in the muck.:nono

Boo, it's just a car. Wash often in the winter and get a good set of snow tires and you're set. I don't see the appeal of a car that's too nice to drive, but to each his own.

Boo, it's just a car. Wash often in the winter and get a good set of snow tires and you're set. I don't see the appeal of a car that's too nice to drive, but to each his own.
I dont think Dan was saying its to nice to drive. The snow is hell on a car. Snowy climates have salted roads. Salt is hell on a car. Even if you wash it, snow can get in hard to clean area's and cause rot. Also after every drive I doubt you will want to be in the freezing cold washing your car. There is no problem with saving a car from winter harshness, and by doing so it does not mean the car doesnt get a proper driving in the summer time.

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What do you mean you are learning on a 94 325?

He probably means learning to drive stick.

He probably means learning to drive stick.

Im glad you are somewhat trying to help, but no, as stated above, I can drive a stick great. I meant learning about how to fix everything myself and to work on my own car.

Im glad you are somewhat trying to help, but no, as stated above, I can drive a stick great. I meant learning about how to fix everything myself and to work on my own car.

If that is the case, the S38 is not such a good place to start. The S38 is a complex motor with very tight tolerances. For a learner, I'd go with a M30 car, like a 535 or 735. The M30 is SOHC while the S38 is DOHC. Plus, if you screw up, with the M30, you are only out a max of 700$, while if you screw up with the S38, you are out at least 6k for just a good long block.

I would also start older, like an E30 or E28. The e34, while not that young anymore, still has a lot more electronics than previous generations. Electronics make working on a car much more frustrating and a lot more to take in to start with.

For a fun, fast, and reasonably cheap mechanical learner, I'd get a 2002 and go nuts with it.

If that is the case, the S38 is not such a good place to start. The S38 is a complex motor with very tight tolerances. For a learner, I'd go with a M30 car, like a 535 or 735. The M30 is SOHC while the S38 is DOHC. Plus, if you screw up, with the M30, you are only out a max of 700$, while if you screw up with the S38, you are out at least 6k for just a good long block.

I would also start older, like an E30 or E28. The e34, while not that young anymore, still has a lot more electronics than previous generations. Electronics make working on a car much more frustrating and a lot more to take in to start with.

For a fun, fast, and reasonably cheap mechanical learner, I'd get a 2002 and go nuts with it.

I dont plan on doing any engine work, especially not if it has low mileage (83 is low to me). Im not a fan of the 2002. Ive already had an e30, no thanks. I really like the e34, and its not like it has problems. Ive since talked to him, and he tells me that its recently had the belts, waterpump, clutch done, and the AC serviced. He also has inspection and oil change receipts. Ill have my second car, so I can take time if I had to, and I will finally be making enough I could go last resort and pay someone else for it. I think im pretty decently mechanically inclined, Ive just never had an area and tools to work on any car ive owned, and now I will have access to a full garage.

If anyone would be so kind. I could always use a carfax.

WBSHD9314MBK05971

justin_andtherobe@hotmail.com

Since you've stated it won't be a daily driver I'd say go for it.

Best investment you can make is a PPI. That engine is extremely sensitive and you would want to have someone very knowledgeable check it out. Mine had 99k when I bought it 4 years ago, I replaced everything but the kitchen sink, fortunately was able to do all work myself. I did not have a PPI but just got damn lucky the engine was perfect. Be prepared to spend a few bucks no matter what the seller says.

I have had numerous M cars and this E34 is just different and becoming a rare commodity. Mine's currently in the shop for a Level 2 service and my mechanic had a waiting list of prospective buyers the first day it was there. GL and hope it works out to your satisfaction. Let me know if I can be of any further assistance.

Sounds like I need to jump on this car asap. I gotta say though. I would love to consider this my daily driver, although probably would end up just driving it on the weekends or going out. Work is close enough I may go back to riding a bike to get in a little better shape.

Noob question: What is PPI?

Sounds like I need to jump on this car asap. I gotta say though. I would love to consider this my daily driver, although probably would end up just driving it on the weekends or going out. Work is close enough I may go back to riding a bike to get in a little better shape.

Noob question: What is PPI?

Pre purchase inspection

Pre purchase inspection

oh, duhhh. Thanks everyone. I told the guy I wouldnt be able to for about a month or so, but would give him a couple thou for deposit if he would like. He says hes gotten the same kind of offers, but he doesnt want to do it, incase someone else can pay in full. I know I cant get an inspection done for about 100-150 so that sounds like a good idea. Ive bought cars unseen before, NEVER AGAIN. He told me the only thing currenly wrong with it is, the ds window is off the ledge, and needs to be fixxed, and the passenger seat will go forward and back, but not recline properly.

Noob question: What is PPI?

Find your local BMWCCA chapter and get a good referal to an indy mechanic who knows E34M5's and can put the car up and have a look.
A thorough ppi shouldn't cost more than 100-200 bucks depending on how much time is spent on the inspection.
It will be money well spent.
I hope the deal goes through, seems like a great price if the car is good.
Good luck and keep us posted.