...at Nalley. I am going to go back to drive it, but I had a favorable first impression. The rims are blah, but the cross-drilled rotors look sweet. Interestingly, it doesn't come with foglights, nor does there appear to be a place for them. Strange.

Sticker was $61,000, but that included the $2700 extended leather option. I will report back after I take it for a spin.

On a related note, this was my first oil change that I actually had to pay for (I am not waiting for the full BMW recommended interval). I was stunned to discover that they charge $140!!!

On a related note, this was my first oil change that I actually had to pay for (I am not waiting for the full BMW recommended interval). I was stunned to discover that they charge $140!!!


about what they charged for it at the Jag dealer when I had a XK8.

do it yourself, its not very difficult, and not very time consuming

$140 is about right. Most dealers labor rates are over $100 an hour, plus a $10 oil filter and 5 quarts of $10 oil. :dunno

Matt

$61k? That's getting up to the new Z06 range ($65k)...:drool:

$140!!!

It could have cost you less than half.

BTW: I'll get you that document by this weekend.

Interestingly, it doesn't come with foglights, nor does there appear to be a place for them. Strange.

Foglights just add weight, why would you want them on an M car? These cars are heavy enough as it is. I don't think the new M5's have them either.

...I was stunned to discover that they charge $140!!!

DIY, it's simple.

Bill, I want to take over your law firm. Can you draw up the documents for me please. thx :D

Bill, I want to take over your law firm. Can you draw up the documents for me please. thx :D

:rofl :rofl :rofl

DIY FTW. The Stealer sucks. If you want you can pay me to do it I'll only charge $100:) .

DIY FTW. The Stealer sucks. If you want you can pay me to do it I'll only charge $100:) .

I'll keep that in mind next time!

I was just kidding about the price. All you got to do is buy the oil and filter and throw me a couple of bucks. No need for $30 to do something that simple.

I think today was actually the first time I have ever actually paid to have my oil changed. I feel like a lazy slug.

I think today was actually the first time I have ever actually paid to have my oil changed. I feel like a lazy slug.
And you didn't feel like a lazy slug when someone else was changing it for free? :rofl

I feel you though... I hated going to get my Mazda done because I couldn't do it at my apartment.

Matt

And you didn't feel like a lazy slug when someone else was changing it for free? :rofl



Nope, not at all. :rofl :rofl

On a related note, this was my first oil change that I actually had to pay for (I am not waiting for the full BMW recommended interval). I was stunned to discover that they charge $140!!!

S54s take 5.5 liters of Castrol TWS 10W60 (approx $8 per liter). Filter kit is about $7 or so.
So it adds up to 6x8 + 7 = $55. This is parts only. I agree $140 is outrageous. they should be able to do for way less than $100.

Florian

I feel like a lazy slug.
You sound like a lazy slug.


:D

Unless you are really into new cars... I'd get a used one with ~10k miles when they become available. I think $10k will fall right off the top on these things.

The Z4 is just not a great looking car.

Unless you are really into new cars... I'd get a used one with ~10k miles when they become available. I think $10k will fall right off the top on these things.

The Z4 is just not a great looking car.
I think they're hot (especially the coupes) but thats just me.

Doesnt the car lose 20% of its value as soon as it's driven off the dealership lot?

Unless you are really into new cars... I'd get a used one with ~10k miles when they become available. I think $10k will fall right off the top on these things.

The Z4 is just not a great looking car.

I have absolutely no intention of buying the M Roadster as I am not a big fan of the Z4 body style...I was merely reporting in on my observations.

You sound like a lazy slug.


:D

I am. :(

The Z4 is just not a great looking car.
To each his own indeed...

I look at the Z4 design, I see genius. I look at a clown shoe, and wonder what they were thinking. :silly


'Nuff styles for everybody, I guess! :redspot

:cool

I look at a clown shoe, and wonder what they were thinking. :silly




I agree...

I'm not a big Z3 fan. And the M Coupe is an actual bastard car that was not supposed to be.

The Z4 was a clean sheet design and it fails.

Sensual swoops (ie classic 911) over hard edges. The front looks like a salamander/guppy. The interior is cold and hard and plastic. The hood is this large flat thing. The sides look pre-wrecked. The angles look forced, not smooth and flowing.

The Z4 is a better car, but, stylingwise, they just really muffed it.

I agree...
And make no mistake - I'm not slamming the Z3 design out of hand. I just recognize that some designs "speak" to different folks more so than others. I always thought the Z3s were nifty, and liked the idea of it, simply from my affectionate stance toward roadsters. But try as I might, I couldn't quite see myself in one. :ponder

On the other hand, the instant I saw a Z4, something in my mind clicked, and I thought, "Oh, YEAH! Now they're on to something!" :buttrock


Like I say... good thing there's enough stuff for everybody. :)

:cool

To each his own indeed...

I look at the Z4 design, I see genius. I look at a clown shoe, and wonder what they were thinking. :silly


'Nuff styles for everybody, I guess! :redspot

:cool

blasphemous, the MCoupe is a gorgeous car (which is why my next car will be one :cool )

blasphemous, the MCoupe is a gorgeous car (which is why my next car will be one :cool )

You change car choices more than me.

Basically I can sum up what y'all are all trying to say in two simple quotes
Different strokes for different folks
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder
I personally think that the Z4s are very cool looking

You change car choices more than me.

I am def set on the MCoupe this time...

MCoupe + Boost = :evil2

You change car choices more than me.

That is not possible....what car are you stuck on now, by the way?

Oh its def possible

Sensual swoops (ie classic 911) over hard edges. The front looks like a salamander/guppy. The interior is cold and hard and plastic. The hood is this large flat thing. The sides look pre-wrecked. The angles look forced, not smooth and flowing.

The Z4 is a better car, but, stylingwise, they just really muffed it.
Count, on the other hand, is slamming something out of hand. :rofl


See, this is what I mean. You see it, and see things you don't like. But from my perspective, everything you say looks like something else.

I actually like the mix of swoops and edges. I think it breaks up the light in very interesting ways, especially with metallic paint (non-metallics on the Z4 body do nothing, and IMO, should never be used).

The interior is far better than the spartan Z3, but as opposed to being "cold" I like the minimalist approach; it doesn't allow a complicated and over-designed array of "stuff" get in the way of the view to the outside. It's simply there, and frames the view, as opposed to competing with it.

As for the front, the pre-facelifted version reminds me of some of the depictions of Japanese ghosts and demons I've seen. This is particularly nifty to me as an individual, but maybe not to someone who hasn't been immersed in that culture. That aside, however, the contour of the front is deceptively simple, but in fact, offers slightly different shifts in perspective from every angle. The more you look at one in person, the more interesting it becomes.


Now, I'll say this: The facelift definitely messed things up, especially up front, by sticking a bunch of style lines where they didn't need to be. "Oh look, a bunch of 'Z's..." Could it be any more obvious? And the back looks like it was re-arranged simply for the sake of being re-arranged. That whole facelift was needless.


But that's the beauty of art in general. Count can think it "fails," but someone else can think it works, and enjoy it immensely. :cool

DW, do you have the 2.5 or the 3.0?

DW, do you have the 2.5 or the 3.0?
2.5, with Sport Package, which gives me those sweet style 106 wheels. :redspot

Count, on the other hand, is slamming something out of hand. :rofl
No. Out of hand would mean without consideration. That's why I listed the particular things I find offensive. The Z4 has been out for a while, if I was gonna warm to it, I would have by now.

I'm far from the only person who thinks "flame surfacing" looks confused.

But that's the beauty of art in general. Count can think it "fails," but someone else can think it works, and enjoy it immensely. :cool
But of course.

The interior is far better than the spartan Z3

???
http://unclean.org/images/full/z3m/interior.jpg

???
http://unclean.org/images/full/z3m/interior.jpg
Which interior is this. I dig it a lot.

Which interior is this. I dig it a lot.
That's the "spartan" M Coupe interior. :rofl

Notice how the door handles swoop similar to the center console.

In the Z4, it's like some high school ID student got a ruler out and then just gave up about halfway through. It's just a mess.

http://www.diseno-art.com/images/BMW-Z4-Coupe-Concept-Interior.jpg

Interestingly, I think the two biggest improvements that the M Roadster has over the Z4 is the redesigned front end and, of course, the quad pipes.

No. Out of hand would mean without consideration. That's why I listed the particular things I find offensive.
I know, I was just giving you a hard time. ;)

The Z4 has been out for a while, if I was gonna warm to it, I would have by now.
Ditto the new "Dame Edna" 5 for me. That thing will always be hideous to me. :thumbdown

But of course.
:drink1

???
Don't know what that's from, but that's a lot different than the ones I looked at back when I was toying with the notion of a Z3. I do know I'm not alone in that assesment, however, as I recall reading several reviews that made specific points about improvements to the interior with the Z4 over the Z3.


But anyway... No biggie. I'm not trying to get on a soap box, or covert anybody, by any means. We like what we like. :cool

That's the "spartan" M Coupe interior.
:stickoutt

See, now you're cheating. I was talking about the Z3, not the M Coupe. :rolleyes




;)

Eh, I would never own a Z3 based on cowl shake alone. I'm just not a roady fan.

Eh, I would never own a Z3 based on cowl shake alone. I'm just not a roady fan.

My S2000 had virtually no cowl shake. It was unbelievable.

Am I the only person in the world who likes both the Z3 and the Z4?

I like the classic lines of the Z3, especially in the M Roadster iteration.

I like the knife edge lines lines of the Z4, especially in silver or black.

To each their own, I guess.

Of course, back to Count's original post, I own an M Roadster moreso because of the used car pricing benefit than because of a committment to the styling.

My S2000 had virtually no cowl shake. It was unbelievable.
And the Z4s I've driven have none. :redspot

That is not possible....what car are you stuck on now, by the way?

Nothing.

Nothing.

Good. I like your current car.

Nothing.

:eyecrazy

Good. I like your current car.

I took out my intake to sell it. My car is actually pretty weak without it.

I took out my intake to sell it. My car is actually pretty weak without it.

Why would you do something stupid like that? Did you need the money to buy a bed for the new condo?

Why would you do something stupid like that? Did you need the money to buy a bed for the new condo?

Nope, my bed is the bomb. I don't know, I guess I'll put the intake back in.

Nope, my bed is the bomb.

ATG, is that true?

I don't know, I guess I'll put the intake back in.

Freak. :confused

Just keep the intake out of the bed and you should be ok.

Just keep the intake out of the bed and you should be ok.

:rofl :rofl :rofl

In the Z4, it's like some high school ID student got a ruler out and then just gave up about halfway through. It's just a mess.



:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

Thank you for using my car's interior and color combo as an example. Estoril rocks :)

I am still having problems understanding the new BMW design direction especially with the Z and 5 series. I warmed up a bit to both but I cannot say I really like them. They are ok but just that. Driving experience on the other hand on the Z4 at least is a different story. I got several Z4 loaners across the years and I enjoy drving it quite a bit. The only gripe I have with the driving abilities is the electro assisted rack and the lack of steering wheel feel. You go over that, the car is a joy to drive. Luckily the Ms (roadster and coupe) will have a traditional rack and pinion setup (wonder why? :))

Florian


No. Out of hand would mean without consideration. That's why I listed the particular things I find offensive. The Z4 has been out for a while, if I was gonna warm to it, I would have by now.

I'm far from the only person who thinks "flame surfacing" looks confused.


But of course.


???
http://unclean.org/images/full/z3m/interior.jpg

The only gripe I have with the driving abilities is the electro assisted rack and the lack of steering wheel feel.
Have you tried a Z4 with the Sport Package? Among the things the Sport Mode does, the power steering assist is reduced, putting more feel into the wheel. :redspot

As for design elements, there are plenty of people who love the new 5 series that others find so weird. But no matter what the product, car, house, or toaster, no one is forced to buy anything they don't like. So that's well and good.

It just cracks me up when some people take silly cheap shots at successors to "their" cars. They say they just can't stand the looks, but it sounds like there's a hearty serving of sour grapes in there as well, like kids pouting because they no longer have the newest toys on the block. :rolleyes

Ah well. :violinist

:cool

Have you tried a Z4 with the Sport Package? Among the things the Sport Mode does, the power steering assist is reduced, putting more feel into the wheel. :redspot

:coolI have something similar on my e30. It's called the "Sport Bypass Hose". It goes where the powersteering pump used to be. :rofl

Matt

I have something similar on my e30. It's called the "Sport Bypass Hose". It goes where the powersteering pump used to be.
:lol

Good luck with that! :D

Most definitely. I had a 3.0 Z4 with sport package for a few days. I agree it is better than the non sport version. As I said, from dynamics point of view I really like the Z4. It is a huge improvement over Z3 roadsters.

Taking cheap shots at successors of one's car model is a trend I noticed too. In most of the cases I think you are right on with your assumptions about the sour grapes syndrome. There are exceptions though when somebody truly has reasonable arguments one way or the other. Not implying anything here but have you followed the recent sale trends on the Z4?

Florian

Have you tried a Z4 with the Sport Package? Among the things the Sport Mode does, the power steering assist is reduced, putting more feel into the wheel. :redspot

As for design elements, there are plenty of people who love the new 5 series that others find so weird. But no matter what the product, car, house, or toaster, no one is forced to buy anything they don't like. So that's well and good.

It just cracks me up when some people take silly cheap shots at successors to "their" cars. They say they just can't stand the looks, but it sounds like there's a hearty serving of sour grapes in there as well, like kids pouting because they no longer have the newest toys on the block. :rolleyes

Ah well. :violinist

:cool

It just cracks me up when some people take silly cheap shots at successors to "their" cars. They say they just can't stand the looks, but it sounds like there's a hearty serving of sour grapes in there as well, like kids pouting because they no longer have the newest toys on the block. :rolleyes

I read this the first time around, but I didn't really focus on it because I was thinking of the PS hose thing.

THIS is why I am so sick of e30 idiots. The e36 is better in almost every way, yet they hate. :shifty

Matt

Hey now, seriously, there is no way anything I said can be construed as a cheap shot or sour grapes.

Not implying anything here but have you followed the recent sale trends on the Z4?
Sure, but there are several factors in play that go beyond the looks of the car, or BMW itself: The slow point the economy went through, not to mention the shift in atmosphere post-9/11, the spikes in gas prices, and the general shift in trends toward a more stay-put "nesting" instinct in the population (note the rise in elaborate home theatres and home gyms). Luxury spending always takes a dive in wartime, and there's no way to describe the Z4, or any roadster for that matter, as "practical." ;)

That, and as opposed to BMW doing anything particularly wrong, there are other car companies (mainly Japanese), who have simply raised their game, but held their prices in check, and taken bites out of what was once a niche market for BMW.

It's easy to look only at the sales figures, and say, "That car must suck!" and indeed, its detractors love doing just that. But from a wider social and economical perspective, the slumping sales of the Z4 are almost to be expected. Can anyone really expect there to be a massive chunk of the US population, with its hordes of soccer mommies and suburban lawn jockeys, to suddenly find hordes babysitters, and turn into pure driving enthusiasts? Of course not. Driver's Ed is dead, driver's tests are a joke, and overall driving skill has taken a nosedive. The dumb masses (say it quickly) prefer instead to encase themselves in a ton or two of metal they basically expect to drive itself, rather than learn how to drive something effectively themselves.

The Z4 is not a McCar, with billions and billions served. Any roadster BMW could make would still be very much a niche car, not a minivan.


In fact, on the other side of the sales coin is the fact that hottest seller, and for BMW overall is guess what: The MINI Cooper! It has defied every single expectation BMW had for it, and literally sold twice as many units than their best initial predictions. That fits right in with the more practical, smaller-and-economical-is-better trends we're seeing in many sectors of the economy.


Hey now, seriously, there is no way anything I said can be construed as a cheap shot or sour grapes.
O rly? :ponder

In the Z4, it's like some high school ID student got a ruler out and then just gave up about halfway through. It's just a mess.

The front looks like a salamander/guppy.

The sides look pre-wrecked.

No, nothing cheap there at all... :rolleyes


The interior is cold and hard and plastic.
:confused

I just have no idea where you're getting that, especially after spening all day yesterday surrounded by all the cold, hard, plastic leather in mine. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the Z3 offered wood dash and console trim, did they? :ponder


You said yourself that you're not a roadster fan in general. Maybe you just don't "get it" or maybe you just don't want to. That's cool. You're more than welcome to your opinions, and if you don't like the car, nobody will put a gun to your head and make you buy one. But there's little denying how your very subjective "points" come across.

I'm sorry Count, but your remarks, especially when appearing on the same page of the more reasonable, and less strident-for-the-sake-of-glibness approach of Mr. fpa1974, slide you firmly into the "hater" column on this one. :az


But like I say, there are enough styles for everybody...

And it's supposed to be ~72 degrees this afternoon. :alright


:wave


:cool

Can't we all just get along??:rolleyes :D

As a side note, I had an E90 330i as a loaner for a few days as I waited for my ///M, and I actually really enjoyed the car! It would make a great daily driver.. It handled really well, had great brakes (better than my ///M!, then again it only had 3K miles and I have 53K+), good ergonomics.. It would have been better if it was the sport package as it "wallowed" a bit in high speed turns and the smaller wheels/tires of the non-sport didn't help. The only minor gripe was the interior, it was a bit cold, but that could be attributed to the bland grey interior, never liked the "BMW grey"..

The sound system was great(Logic 7, I think), not usually a BMW trait, the steering was very direct, the exhaust note was sweet, all in all a really nice vehicle. And I believe it was designed (or at least he had a major part) by the same designer of the E39 a classic design in the making as well.

I could be hating on it like other E46 "purists" but, I can't, even my wife loved it when she drove it, and she's no car afficianado..

Can't we all just get along??:rolleyes :D
It's cool... I'm not hatin', just agreeing to disagree, that's all. :drink1

Interesting you mention the E90... There are some things about it I'm not wild about, but also some very definite improvements over the E46.

:cool

Interesting you mention the E90... There are some things about it I'm not wild about, but also some very definite improvements over the E46.

:cool
I'm not liking the e90's too much, mainly because they lookly bubbly and big. Maybe when the coupe's come out, they'll grow on me. I still think the e46 looks the best.

S54s take 5.5 liters of Castrol TWS 10W60 (approx $8 per liter). Filter kit is about $7 or so.
So it adds up to 6x8 + 7 = $55. This is parts only. I agree $140 is outrageous. they should be able to do for way less than $100.

Florian

FYI, the dealer does more than just change the oil and filter for that $140. But, if you're doing it pre-emptively (in between scheduled maint.) then yeah I'd do it myself since the other stuff'll get hit at the scheduled appts. Either way, if you're out of the service plan go to Performing Imports or somewhere--way cheaper (and better) than the stealer.

FYI, the dealer does more than just change the oil and filter for that $140. But, if you're doing it pre-emptively (in between scheduled maint.) then yeah I'd do it myself since the other stuff'll get hit at the scheduled appts. Either way, if you're out of the service plan go to Performing Imports or somewhere--way cheaper (and better) than the stealer.

I only have 6k on the car, so I am still in the service plan.

And make no mistake - I'm not slamming the Z3 design out of hand. I just recognize that some designs "speak" to different folks more so than others. I always thought the Z3s were nifty, and liked the idea of it, simply from my affectionate stance toward roadsters. But try as I might, I couldn't quite see myself in one. :ponder


Personally I really liked the Z3. I owned a '97 2.8 in blue/tan and a '99 in black/red and loved them. Performance wise it was no Boxster, but I liked the look and the 2.8 was rock steady reliable and strong.

I think the MZ4 will be a rocket, but I don't care much for the looks myself. The last M Roadster with 320hp was a beast and a blast to drive, though still had the poor suspension and lacked refinement of the Boxster.

As for design elements, there are plenty of people who love the new 5 series that others find so weird. But no matter what the product, car, house, or toaster, no one is forced to buy anything they don't like. So that's well and good.


I got an '05 530i loaner at my last appointment. I spent two days with it and I have to say that it did not turn me on in the slightest. I have to agree with the press that iDrive needs a lot more work. They even put the fan speed in the iDrive--why not just have a knob--took 3-4 moves in the iDrive to set up the A/C--just moronic.

Can't wait to see the new M3 when it's out. The only thing the E46 needs is that V8. I think the E46 M3 styling is classic, but I'd like the torque of the V8. Too bad I can't afford the E39 V8 conversion Hamann does.

I only have 6k on the car, so I am still in the service plan.

I'd go to PI for non-service plan work then. I shoulda known with a ZCP you'd still be covered.

I'm not liking the e90's too much, mainly because they lookly bubbly and big.
You've hit on one of my main grumbles about them: The front end looks like it got bopped in the nose, and swelled up a bit. :az

I don't like the z4 at all, looks like a frog to me. Z3 FTW

I don't like the z4 at all, looks like a frog to me. Z3 FTW
k.

I don't like the z4 at all, looks like a frog to me. Z3 FTW
Yuck, The Z3's too short, reminds me of a Miata. Z4 has a longer nose, making it sexy.

Yuck, The Z3's too short, reminds me of a Miata. Z4 has a longer nose, making it sexy.
so does the z3 :conf

anyways...

I <3 Z3s and Z4s

anyways...

I <3 Z3s and Z4s
Way to make everyone happy. :rolleyes

The Z4 is a better car, but, stylingwise, they just really muffed it.
Yeah, cheap shots.

Is it not understood that styling is subjective?

anyways...

I <3 Z3s and Z4s
A politician in the making!

Yeah, cheap shots.
Is it not understood that styling is subjective?
Yes, it is. No one claimed otherwise. In fact, I said pretty much the same thing from the get-go. :confused

I just find it interesting that while I was saying, "There's enough stuff for everybody," you seemed to want to push the issue, and grind your axe. It's as if there was some grand conclusion you were trying to enlighten the poor simpletons about. :silly


Or were you just on an impromptu rant, and that was the topic that happened to fall into your crosshairs? ;)


Either way, I trust you had fun.

:cool

It's as if there was some grand conclusion you were trying to enlighten the poor simpletons about. :silly
The people have a right to know.

A politician in the making!
Well, lets look at it this way. The Z4 is here whether you like it or not. The Z3 is also here whether you like it or not. Both cars exist so both can be purchased. When the Z5 comes out, the Z4 and the Z3 will still be here so if you dont like the Z5 then buy the Z4 or the Z3.

i have spoken, now everyone relax.

Christ, the Z5 is gonna be so suck.

Christ, the Z5 is gonna be so suck.
I should be employed there in time to save the later production Z5.

I should be employed there in time to save the later production Z5.
It's so bad, I don't know if it can be saved. It would be career suicide to get involved with the Z5 project. I'd stay far far away.

It's so bad, I don't know if it can be saved. It would be career suicide to get involved with the Z5 project. I'd stay far far away.
but it hasnt come out yet :conf

but it hasnt come out yet :conf

That's the point of his whole joke...he is pre-hating on it. :laugh

That's the point of his whole joke...he is pre-hating on it. :laugh
I got the joke, I was pointing out that he has built in hate. Now he's in the same boat as Fatgirl's prejudice parents.

pre-hate, built-in hate...

I love it...

That's the point of his whole joke...he is pre-hating on it. :laugh

:lol :lol :lol


I got the joke, I was pointing out that he has built in hate. Now he's in the same boat as Fatgirl's prejudice parents.
Atleast I'm not prejudiced? ;)

Atleast I'm not prejudiced? ;)

You have been prejudiced. Report your parents to the government and have them deported. ;)

You have been prejudiced. Report your parents to the government and have them deported. ;)
Funny. :rolleyes

Funny. :rolleyes
Hot Sexual.

Hot Sexual.
:lol :lol :lol :lol
Random as crap.

Random as crap.
If your crap is random, you should really seek medical attention. :help

In the morning, with a good cup of coffee... my crap is...

A-U-T-O-matic.

If your crap is random, you should really seek medical attention. :help
:rolleyes :stickoutt

In the morning, with a good cup of coffee... my crap is...

A-U-T-O-matic.
:lol

Its PARTY TIME!

P

A

R

T

Y....because I gotta!

A-U-T-O-matic.
"Stop the music, baby..." :redspot

:D




Damn good track. :buttrock

I am glad that everybody agreed to disagree here. In the end there are arguments on both sides, arguments that can be highy subjective.

And now confession time:). I would love to own a MZ4 as a daily driver. When I went to the Spartanburg performance center some years back and drove the Z4 hard on their autox course, my remark at the end was if this car had an S54 in it, it would rock. They did it 3 years after that and it will rock. Probably it will drive so well that would make it interesting to me since I have been known to ignore looks over driving dynamics (I owned a WRX for 2 year after all :)).

I guess I need to go and test drive one to see the end result but maybe I should not because I might like it too much. This will not make me love the design of it but if it drives the way I expect it does it will be enough to actually like the car.

Florian

I am glad that everybody agreed to disagree here. In the end there are arguments on both sides, arguments that can be highy subjective.

And now confession time:). I would love to own a MZ4 as a daily driver. When I went to the Spartanburg performance center some years back and drove the Z4 hard on their autox course, my remark at the end was if this car had an S54 in it, it would rock. They did it 3 years after that and it will rock. Probably it will drive so well that would make it interesting to me since I have been known to ignore looks over driving dynamics (I owned a WRX for 2 year after all :)).

I guess I need to go and test drive one to see the end result but maybe I should not because I might like it too much. This will not make me love the design of it but if it drives the way I expect it does it will be enough to actually like the car.

Florian

I do at least find it interesting that BMW finally went through with a Z4 M Roadster. They SWORE from the day it came out that it wouldn't happen. Then the sales sucked so they thought they might breathe some life into it with the S54--it'll probably work, though not as well as they're hoping. I think it'll be a hoot to drive.

And the MZ4Coupe will be awesome :alright