I've been looking for an e30, but 2002's seem to be more common, and theyre cool to. i heard they were fun to drive. How do they compare in handling and speed to an e30 325i? what about with a weber carberator, and whatever else?

I havnt owned an e30 but the 02's can be modified a fair way and are probably more fun! There are so many options out there: single carb, twin carb, head work, cam, pistons, high comp., low comp. & turbo. And then you move into engine swaps like m20 and s14. And yes, they definatly have the cool factor :p

love my e30 virt, just wish i could got more use out of my 002 =(

I can't believe that you've seen more '02s than E30s! There's got to be way more E30s around than 2002s.

02s are simpler, older, noiser, hotter, easier to work on, cheaper to fix, etc.
E30s are getting pretty old, with more electronics, sensors, pricey-er parts, more creature comforts (AC).

Both are pretty modifiable, but E30s are subject to more emissions requirements.
I bet a stock E30 would "handle" better than a stock 2002. But it depends on what you want.

I've been looking for an e30, but 2002's seem to be more common, and theyre cool to. i heard they were fun to drive. How do they compare in handling and speed to an e30 325i? what about with a weber carberator, and whatever else?

I can't believe that you've seen more '02s than E30s! There's got to be way more E30s around than 2002s.

i have no idea why, but i have, at least on craigslist. I went looking at dealers for 3 days, and didn't find either one. I found one e30 325e in the 4, or 5 cities i went to, but i still find alot of 2002's on craigslist

heh there aren't any e30s around cos everyone parts em out to fix up their 2002s!

I've been looking for an e30, but 2002's seem to be more common, and theyre cool to. i heard they were fun to drive. How do they compare in handling and speed to an e30 325i? what about with a weber carberator, and whatever else?

I own both so I feel I can make a comparison as far as handling and speed as you mention.

I'm going to compare a stock 2002tii to a stock 91 E30 318is since many compare them as the grandfather (tii) and the grandson (318is).

Driving the car, the 2002 seats sit higher off the floor and the shifter is down lower to the floor. On the E30, you sit lower and the shifter is higher on the trans tunnel.

The E30 is longer than the 2002 is, so the center of gravity is different. The E30 has more contemporary steering with little effort but has the great BMW feel of the road that the 2002 has, it's just different.

The shorter wheelbase of the 2002 makes it seem much more like a go-cart than the E30. It seems like there is no effort to turn an 90 degree turn without using brakes (but using brake horsepower!).

Speed wise, the E30 has the 0-60 edge over the Tii but not by much.

The E30 can take more suspension mods, bigger wider tires and upgrades.

They are really two different cars from a seat of the pants feel. I also have an E21 323i Euro to compare which came in between the two - and it has a more "wedge" feel in my opinion- that the back of the car seems wider (but very sure of itself) than the front when cornering. It likes to "point" downwards at times. It's more different than the 2002 than the E30, and I think that is why the E30 is more comfortable to the '02 owners crowd as a second BMW.

The magic of driving the 2002 has to be experienced - it just seems right to me. When I drive one, I always feel like 99% of the other cars around me are at a disadvantage to me - I have better cornering, grip and visibility than they do. Most of the time I notice getting from one place to the the other on the road seems so effortless in the 2002 - a real joy to drive.

My 318is is different in that when I go take a sporting drive where I'm working it hard, I can just totally beat the daylights out of it and it seems so effortless to do anything you want. And then it laughs at me and gives me 30mpg for doing it. The 2002 has more steering effort due to the technology, so you do get a work out driving from an arm strength work out perspective.

Really you can't go wrong with either car - but they are like comparing types of saws. They all cut wood, but each has their place in the toolbox.

I have both cars and basically it comes down to vintage sport or more modern sport. I couldnt suggest one over the other so I'll go ahead and say get both. :D
Have you thought about a e21?

I have both cars and basically it comes down to vintage sport or more modern sport. I couldnt suggest one over the other so I'll go ahead and say get both. :D
Have you thought about a e21?

i don't really want an e21, my brother had one and likes his 91' 318 a whole lot better, i think i'm gonna go for an e30, i found a couple that someone is selling that are a good deal, a 325is and an ix

Now, if you are thinking about an iX, the comparison changes completely. I have an iX, which has the inline 6 (M20) engine, and I'd bet that the 318i is a faster car. The iX is great for what it was intended for (snow), but in dry conditions, it is not as fun to drive as the other cars mentioned. I guess its all that weight for the transfer case. On a side note, mine is an automatic, so I know the manual probably feels slightly better, but it shouldn't make THAT much of a difference.

Now, if you are thinking about an iX, the comparison changes completely. I have an iX, which has the inline 6 (M20) engine, and I'd bet that the 318i is a faster car. The iX is great for what it was intended for (snow), but in dry conditions, it is not as fun to drive as the other cars mentioned. I guess its all that weight for the transfer case. On a side note, mine is an automatic, so I know the manual probably feels slightly better, but it shouldn't make THAT much of a difference.

i doubt the 318i is faster, the ix only weighs 150 lbs more than the is, but still has the same power

I stated mine is an auto, so that could be why, but it really is that slow. With that said, I love my iX. I love how it looks and how it handles in the worst weather. It just isn't anywhere in the same ballpark as a 2002.

I had to say something because you threw the 325is and the iX into the same reply about the cars you were looking at and comparing to possibly getting a 2002.

Michael

Actually, I agree that (in my experience) a nice '02 may be easier to come by than a nice e30 325is. I originally wanted (and still want) a clean, well maintained 325is, and looked for many weeks before eventually purchasing my '02. All the cars I found for sale, minus one which I missed by a few hours, were high-mileage and extensively modified, and there were precious few of those.

2002s, on the other hand, have been being restored for many years now. I came upon an older restoration - in nearly the exact manner I would've done it - just down the street from me, sitting the parking lot of a local BMW enthusiast's garage. The owner of the shop had previously put me on a list of people he was trying to find a good 325is for. I think he told me there were 12 or 13 people ahead of me, with that distinct "good luck" tone of voice. Meanwhile, the '02 sat waiting patiently...

I think e30s are not quite old enough yet to be considered the next-classic (the e21 still has to fill those shoes), but not new enough to find low-mileage versions in decent supply, at least for the 325is. Eventually I predict that the e30s, particularly the 325is, will come to be seen as the successor to the 2002 in terms of desirability in a classic car. In many ways, the e30 was and is the best BMW made.

But I really appreciated My2002tii's analysis of the differences between his tii and 318is, particularly the seating and wheelbase differences. One of the things I noticed immediately about my 2002, after having driven a MkIV Vr6 GTI, was that the car felt like it rotated right through my spine. It is really an exhilerating experience. I put it down to better weight balance and rear wheel drive at first, but I later found out that the driver sits exactly in the middle of the pivot point of the car (longitudinally). That, combined with the rest of the comments above, goes a long way to explaining why I have so much more fun with my '02 than I did in my GTI (which was quite a bit of fun to begin with).

Modern cars (including the e30) may be faster and handle better these days, but none can quite match the essential quality and fun of drifting through apexes in my '02.

I had never thought about the pivot point before, but ya.. that totally helps to explain the 2002 experience. When you take a corner, or just pull a u-ey in a street the sensation of motion is just different from other cars. I know its partially psychological since you *KNOW* a lot of other cars handle better, but I think what you say about the pivot point and the tall expansive window scape that lets you see everything lends to that reaction.

Most sports cars are so view restricted you don't get all that much peripheral vision -- the motion detectors probably do not fire as actively within the old brain due to not having nearly as much sensory input.

Like a lot of cars your peripheral perception are closed in by the cockpit and small side windows etc. In the 2002 you've got nearly surround vision.

That and the pivot point must contribute.

Man somebody needs to get a grant to study this in debth :)

That's an interesting point! I never really considered the "greenhouse" as contributing to the driving experience in that way, but I'm sure you are right. It's rather a nice analogue in fact to the way I've come to feel about my '02: in the same way that the expansive greenhouse reduces visual obstructions, the car's layout centers it's physical inputs (as much as possible) in the driver's seat (rather than behind, as in a rear-engined car, or in well in front as in many front-engined cars). I think these are some of the ways the '02 simply "gets out of the way" of driving, and let's the driver do what he/she does best.

It's quite a refined tool in that sense.

But your pivot point also reinforces the vision thing. If the car is turning on the axis point right where the driver is, this more closly matches your 'normal' perception of turning. This coupled with a fuller view of the surroundings one would expect the driver to have a more genuine (or accurate) sensation compared to cars with less vision and a pivot point offset from where the driver is sitting.

Yes, I think BMW should drop a few hundred grand to you and me to test this theory out :)

Maybe we can help design the next great driving BMW

Heh, yeah - it just might end up looking a lot like an e10, no?

ya. Just having 'human factors' class flashbacks from college