I got pulled over for "73 in 60" driving home from Olympia. The problem is I had cruise set at 66.

I am so incredibly pissed off I can barely type. I was in the HOV lane putting along (Being duely cautious in my red car) and the bike was sitting on the RIGHT shoulder of the road. Apparantly he shot me through 3 lanes of moving traffic.

This is the first speeding ticket I have EVER gotten (Ive been driving for awhile) and I am so disturbed by the injustice of it. I bought a few "fight you speeding ticket and win" eBooks.

I got the ticket in THURSTON country (An hour south of where I live) and it doesnt say on the ticket that I can do a trial by mail. (Anyone know otherwise?) Do any of these tactics in these eBooks work or am I really better off finding an attorny down in THURSTON county? I need it OFF my record.

I am so *** (sorry, freaking) pissed off that I was charged with a crime I didnt commit.

Thansk guys. Any advice or stories appreciated.

thats nothing, i was speeding, by a lot, but the cop made up a bunch of shit like that i was weaving in and out of traffic, and that i almost made a semi crash ect. Now i have a wreckless ticket (that im trying to fight with out much success) which means i will loose my license for 90 days, get a big fine, a bunch of comminuty service, and incurance rates will go up 10x

Get a laywer

check out dtm they have a list of laywers i would recommed Jags he is a member on dtm and helped many of us out of tickets
Jag Matto
119 First Ave, Suite 500
Seattle WA 98104
253-332-4879
just tell him you are with dtm and he should be able to help you out good luck

I got a ticket going 30 over in a sixety one night at 2:oo in the morning. My parents have a pre paid legal service and I am only 18 so the service sent a lawyer to my court date and got the ticket dissmissed. :buttrock That is the only ticket I have ever gotten and I dont think I am going to do something stupid like that for a long time.

Do you guys really think I should get a lawyer? Im so irritated that I even have to deal with this. Everyone who got ticketed for something they actually did has my envy. You down want this sick feeling of powerlessness and injustice. Its awful.

The tickets only for $122. If I have to send one of these Seattly lawyers down to Olympia itll cost me. Maybe I will try and find one down there.

I will go post at DTM tomorrow.

I would like to hear if anyone here has attempted to fight a ticket themselves (being well prepared) and won or lost.

Okay $120 for a ticket + added insurance rates over the course of 3-7 years ?

Or $200-$300 for a lawyer and have a dropped ticket. Take a one time hit.

i currently have a lawyer working on my ticket and she' charges $350 base charge, but if more work is needed in travel then im looking at $600 total. Sucks I know but i just dont want anything on my record at all. My ticket was for $180 bucks. Go to DTM, I am jusing Jeannie Mucklestone, very professional and I have heard nothing but great things bout her and work she has done supposedly for microsoft employees. gluck,

I got a ticket for 30 over on the freeway. The cop said I would get reckless driving. So, I went to court alone to battle it. I got it reduced from 30 to 5 over the limit. My insurance company dismisses any tickets 5 mph and under. This was my first ticket. So, even if you go alone, w/o a lawyer, you can achieve a much better situation. I've now done this twice. I got another ticket for no front plate, but didnt contest because what could I really say?

For my last ticket, I did the Lawyer thing... and it was so easy, I got nailed by a bike cop on my bike...ya know he's wrote alot of tickets being a bike cop.. thus he did everything perfect... and my lawyer had to defer the hearing once to go over the ticket further to try and find a technicallity... well he did find something relating to an ordinance # or something in the county... I really have no idea :confused but he got it dropped for me... if I didn't know better I'd say he was sleeping with the judge.

I really don't think you have any chance of winning it on your own, because it is your word against the police officers.. and you'll never win that way. You've got to have hard evindence that you didn't commit. Your best bet on your own would be to subpeneau (sp) the officer and hope he doesn't show up, and from what I have heard they get paid extra to show up for hearings.. so its not likely.

I'm being long winded hear but.... at my hearing, there were IIRC 9 cases that day, and I was last because of my last name so I heard all of them... there were 5 that had lawyers and 4 that didn't.. all 5 that had lawyers got the tickets dropped, and only 1 of the guys that didn't have a lawyer got his dropped, and that was because the officer didn't write any notes on the back of the ticket. Dood just got lucky.

you may get some deductions etc., but that's really all. you never "win" that's just how it goes. don't waste your money on the lawyer

since it's your first ticket, im sure you could keep it off your record, proably won't get out of the ticket though, maybe reduced. my friend got two tickets, one for speeding, one for not pulling over(he wasn't running, he just didn't know where to pull over). total of $1100, not sure exactly what happened in court, i just know, one tickets on his record, and it eneded up costing $500. My brother also kept a ticket off of his record because it was his first. theres something where if you don't get another ticket for a year, it stays off your record, but if you get another they both go on your record

this thread may help as well
http://www.bmwpugetsound.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=30400&highlight=fight

you may get some deductions etc., but that's really all. you never "win" that's just how it goes. don't waste your money on the lawyer


not true, if the lawyer gets the ticket dropped, it does not go on your driving record.

since it's your first ticket, im sure you could keep it off your record, proably won't get out of the ticket though, maybe reduced.


Yes, you can opt to defer it... that will mean though that you cannot get another ticket of any sort for 1 year, if you do the previous ticket will go on your record, and you will have to pay it. IIRC you have to pay a flat fee of I think $200 if you defer. Only bad thing is you are granted just 1 deferment every 7 years I think it is.

not true, if the lawyer gets the ticket dropped, it does not go on your driving record.

depends on the circumstances. my mom runs traffic court for a certain city so i know how this goes. the lawyer has about a .5% chance of getting the ticket dropped in a typical scenario. if you are offered a program to lessen the fee take it if you have the time. i say just show up to court, get your reductions (which you do not need a lawyer for) and pay up and move on. it sucks i know.:mad

also to the original poster:
didn't realize your ticket was in olympia. they are so full of sh** there, my dad got a ticket for 5 over, no joke.

the lawyer has about a .5% chance of getting the ticket dropped in a typical scenario. .


:confused not from what I have witnessed/heard. I would say its more like 90% chance it'll get dropped if not higher.

all my buddies I ride with have gotten tickets dropped no problem with a lawyer... one even got his wreckless thrown out, my ex girlfriend got her ticket dropped.. ect. ect.

Hey Chris,

Check this out. It's a PNW FAQ Thread I just made. There is a list of lawyers that can help you. I've had good luck with Mitch Greene - $200 if you win, nothing if you lose. I've never heard of him losing.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=495991

Click on "Useful Legal Links & Traffic Attorneys" link. ;)

check out dtm they have a list of laywers i would recommed Jags he is a member on dtm and helped many of us out of tickets
Jag Matto
119 First Ave, Suite 500
Seattle WA 98104
253-332-4879
just tell him you are with dtm and he should be able to help you out good luck
Did you see the new PNW FAQ thread I did? Has a great list of lawyers including the ones from DTM. :thumbup:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=495991

Okay bro, updated lawyers link. I went to the source; the WA State BAR Association. I verified all of the attorney's info. There is also only one Mitch Greene. :thumbup:

Direct Link http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6061026&postcount=11

just a shameless plug...

I used Tim Coogan.. he got my 52 in a 40 ticket dropped that I got by a bike cop.. and I have no idea how he did it. He is good.

Okay $120 for a ticket + added insurance rates over the course of 3-7 years ?

Or $200-$300 for a lawyer and have a dropped ticket. Take a one time hit.
It's more than 7 years even. The insurance companies have their own "Credit Bureau" so to speak that nobody really knows about. You may kinda know because they are able to pull claims history, but they don't tell you that claim history (even tickets) that are on your record may effect your rates for 10 years or more, even if they are no longer on your state record. When you get tickets/accidents or even file windshield breakage or ding claims you 'cost' the insurance company money. All of this raises your risk rating - the don't care what the situation is, they want to know bottom line how much you are going to cost them. So, I would say take the hit right now one time and save yourself years and years of frustration with higher premiums.

If you defer the fee is $100.

I had to defer a ticket last summer. He said i sped through a stop sign. :rolleyes
Didn't have time to argue it so i had to defer it. My friend was in the car and would say that i did not speed through the turn. Probably could of won too.
Oh it was 11 at night in my manager's neighborhood in covington. I was house sitting.
I guess he really didn't have anything else better to do then sit and wait for someone to roll a stop sign. He left after he gave me the ticket too. He was a prick too cause i look young and drive a bmw. :shifty
So much for to serve and protect or whatever their moto is. Majority of cops are worthless and is a waste of my tax dollars.

The ticket was for $101 and i defered it but yet i still paid $100. I saved $1 but i guess my insurance doesn't go up.

No tickets for me until august.

If you defer the fee is $100.

I had to defer a ticket last summer. He said i sped through a stop sign. :rolleyes
Didn't have time to argue it so i had to defer it. My friend was in the car and would say that i did not speed through the turn. Probably could of won too.
Oh it was 11 at night in my manager's neighborhood in covington. I was house sitting.
I guess he really didn't have anything else better to do then sit and wait for someone to roll a stop sign. He left after he gave me the ticket too. He was a prick too cause i look young and drive a bmw. :shifty
So much for to serve and protect or whatever their moto is. Majority of cops are worthless and is a waste of my tax dollars.

The ticket was for $101 and i defered it but yet i still paid $100. I saved $1 but i guess my insurance doesn't go up.

No tickets for me until august.
And you bought a V1 right after that too, right? :D

I love those things. I wish mine wasn't broken...I feel all paranoid. It's not that I speed very much, if at all (with all the ADAT mofos running around), but it's that one time that you do that they are right there to pinch ya... Murphy's Law and all that jazz... :dunno

I've been putting the v1 off. I don't think the v1 would of helped me in that case either.

It looks like he was sitting there enjoying his donuts on the clock.

I need to get new tires before i get the v1.
The azenis rt-615 will finally be release at the end of this month so i'll be rolling arond with new rubber finally.
Been holding out for them. :D

I often spend an hour or two out of the month observing contested cases just for $hits and giggles. I could go on forever about the excuses, angles, explanations defendants and attorneys employ. I believe I have heard them all. If you haven't gone to just sit and watch a contested infraction hearing you should, (not to mention the babes that come in but that's another story). If anything it'll give you some understanding about how the court treats evidence (both defendants and the prosecutor/officer) as well as how you should prepare if the need arises.

So a few points...

WSP patrolling Thurston county are notoriously more aggressive than anywhere else. If there's one place NOT to speed it's through Thurston County (from Nisqually Valley past Tumwater).

WSP aims for more tickets (http://www.theolympian.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051101/NEWS/511010341)

"Thurston County drivers, meanwhile, have been getting tickets at higher than the state average -- and injury accidents here have been lower than the state average...

State troopers ticketed 60 percent of the speeders they pulled over last year in Thurston County.

Statewide, troopers issued citations 44 percent of the time."

Speeding tickets are particularly difficult to get dismissed as compared to other less quantifiable infractions. Other fractions tend to be more conjectural (ie following too close, driving aggressively, etc.). State prosecutors provide the forms (http://www.courts.wa.gov/court_rules/?fa=court_rules.display&group=clj&set=IRLJ&ruleid=cljirlj6.6) for your citing officer supporting the validity of radar and the citing officer's competence with the equipment.

I'll tell you this much, there's no way you're going to dismiss a speeding ticket (unless the judge is feeling particularly generous) on the basis of "I couldn't have been going that fast" or "my car's a piece of junk, it doesn't go that fast" or "the officer mistook me for another similar car" or "traffic was exceptionally heavy he couldn't have seen through the traffic" or "the weather was particularly bad, the radar is not infallible" and don't even try the cosine error argument unless you're a bonafide radar engineer with a degree in electrical engineering. They've all failed more often than not.

Your best chance of dismissing the infraction is on a technicality. One example is dismissal of the infraction due to an untimely filing.

RULE IRLJ 2.2(d)
Filing of Notice. When a notice of infraction has been
issued, the notice shall be filed with a court having
jurisdiction over the infraction or with a violations bureau
subject to such courts supervision. The notice must be filed
within five days of issuance of the notice, excluding Saturdays,
Sundays, and holidays. In the absence of good cause shown, a
notice of infraction not filed within the time limits of this
section shall, upon motion, be dismissed with prejudice.

Prior to an amendment last January the filing deadline was "within 48 hours". Because of the influx of tickets being written the courts were bogged down and many tickets were dismissed due to the courts inability (or the officer's inability) to file the infraction in time. Therefore an amendment was made to extend the deadline to five days. This is just one example and one which probably won't work now, but you can always try and call Thurston County District courthouse a week after your ticket was issued and find out the filing date. It's always possible the officer didn't turn in his book for a day or two, the court was inundated with tickets to process or whatever.

If you know and understand the court rules the chance of having your ticket dismissed rises immeasurably, that said however speeding is one of the toughest.

Get to work (http://www.courts.wa.gov/court_rules/?fa=court_rules.list&group=clj&set=IRLJ) treat it as a learning experience and good luck

Good post. I have also sat in a court room just to observe. It's amazing how much one can learn by just watching others.

just a shameless plug...

I used Tim Coogan.. he got my 52 in a 40 ticket dropped that I got by a bike cop.. and I have no idea how he did it. He is good.
Vote for Sticky - then no more shameless plugs. :D

There are a variety of ways the traffic lawyers use to get the tickets dropped; the Troopers have to tune their guns after each use (radar) and keep a log book, they could have forgot to write it down and therefore the reading is invalid; they are supposed to keep a recent certification of the actual gun on file at the courthouse, that can invalidate the usage of the gun... etc etc there are just a ton of ways the lawyers know to dismiss it. General incompetence arguments or "I didn't do it" are always a waste of time.

Vote for Sticky - then no more shameless plugs. :D

There are a variety of ways the traffic lawyers use to get the tickets dropped; the Troopers have to tune their guns after each use (radar) and keep a log book, they could have forgot to write it down and therefore the reading is invalid; they are supposed to keep a recent certification of the actual gun on file at the courthouse, that can invalidate the usage of the gun... etc etc there are just a ton of ways the lawyers know to dismiss it. General incompetence arguments or "I didn't do it" are always a waste of time.

they do everything they can to keep from laughing when someone trys to pull the calibration thing where my mom works. that doesn't work anymore. i guess it depends on the county/city where you are in court, but they really don't make screw ups like that anymore, and I'm guessing it is because it probably did work well for people in the past :)

Yes, you can opt to defer it... that will mean though that you cannot get another ticket of any sort for 1 year, if you do the previous ticket will go on your record, and you will have to pay it. IIRC you have to pay a flat fee of I think $200 if you defer. Only bad thing is you are granted just 1 deferment every 7 years I think it is.
When I got my ticket deferred it was $100 and it was only for 6 months that I had to be a "good boy". :D

But it is true you are only allowed one deferrment every 7 years (or so the court told me; and my lawyer come to think of it).

they do everything they can to keep from laughing when someone trys to pull the calibration thing where my mom works. that doesn't work anymore. i guess it depends on the county/city where you are in court, but they really don't make screw ups like that anymore, and I'm guessing it is because it probably did work well for people in the past :)
Actually it doesn't matter what the county/city ordinance is, because it is an RCW (Revised Code of Washington; state law) and no local municipality can supersede that.

My second-to-last 'run in' with the law my lawyer got my ticket dropped because the certification on file for the LASER-gun was out of date; wasn't within a year. They have to be tested and certified accurate at least once a year. Even if it had been, the certificate wasn't on file at the court house.

The Mitch Green I got ahold of charges $300 and doesnt do Thurston.

I really think there are two.

I hired an attorney not on the list but reccommended by the BMWCCA PNW Evens Chair or something. $350.

These attornies are very hard to get ahold of.

The Mitch Green I got ahold of charges $300 and doesnt do Thurston.

I really think there are two.

I hired an attorney not on the list but reccommended by the BMWCCA PNW Evens Chair or something. $350.

These attornies are very hard to get ahold of.
What was the phone of the Mitch Greene you got ahold of? According to the WSBA, there is only one Mitch Greene/Mitch Green. :dunno

I just want to make sure his info is correct. :thumbup:

The Mitch Green I got ahold of charges $300 and doesnt do Thurston.

I really think there are two.

I hired an attorney not on the list but reccommended by the BMWCCA PNW Evens Chair or something. $350.

These attornies are very hard to get ahold of.
BTW, post up in the PNW FAQ thread with who you are using, or just PM me. I am very close to getting it stickied; the Admins just want a few things changed and I think they'll okay it. The Moderators really like it. :alright

how fast must you be going in order to get a wreckless driving ticket? don't they arrest you for reckless driving?

up to the officers discretion. it's more or less the manner in which you're driving, not the speed. But if you double the speed limit, it's an easy way to get a reckless.

How about owning up and just making your life a lot easier and pay the ticket.

How about owning up and just making your life a lot easier and pay the ticket.
Because that would be stupid. What would he be owning up to? 66 in a 60? I think you as well as everyone else knows that tickets are less about safety and more about revenue generation nowadays. Why do you think insurance companies "donated" over $50 million dollars in radar/LASER equipment to law enforcement agencies last year? If they can issue more tickets, insurance companies can raise rates.

You can pay your tickets just like every other naive sucker on the road.

You can justify it all damn day long, the law is the law.
Why waste hours of your time and possibly more money than the actual ticket itself. Just pay the thing, and get on with your life.

You can justify it all damn day long, the law is the law.
Why waste hours of your time and possibly more money than the actual ticket itself. Just pay the thing, and get on with your life.
That's the point. You won't get on with your life. It will be on your driving record, and also it will effect your insurance. Something like this can prohibit you from attaining certain jobs in some industries, and also can cause you to lose your job in similar situations. Your juvenile mentality of "just pay the thing, and get on with your life." will get you about 2ft in the real world.

Good luck with that.

Oh Josh, Josh, Josh.

I think $350 is a value to get it off my record. And if this guy in Issaquah is only $200 I should speed more often!

I have never EVER gotten pulled over in any of my black/silver cars (driven 70% of the time).

I got pulled over once in the RED Audi (warning) and now this ticket in the RED IS300 which has 20% tint and French fogs. (Maybe 30% of my driving was in these cars).

I think there is a lesson here.

Jesse thank you for the email. I have to write the attorney Im using a check very soon so I HAVE to find their info! I have looked everywhere but it should be on my registered mail recipet if nothing else. :dunno :help

That's the point. You won't get on with your life. It will be on your driving record, and also it will effect your insurance. Something like this can prohibit you from attaining certain jobs in some industries, and also can cause you to lose your job in similar situations. Your juvenile mentality of "just pay the thing, and get on with your life." will get you about 2ft in the real world.

Good luck with that.


How about not *** speeding then. That's the real world.:redspot I love how people can't take any responsibility for their actions. That's what makes America so great.:eyecrazy

How about not fucking speeding then. That's the real world.:redspot I love how people can't take any responsibility for their actions. That's what makes America so great.:eyecrazy
:rolleyes

/OT

Chris, this is the guy I was talking about yesterday. Highly recommended; does traffic exclusively. I believe he only charges $200. Tell him a friend of Dave Meister sent you.

Fred Hopkins-Traffic Attorney
175 NE Gilman Blvd
Issaquah, WA 98027-2904
425.391.7427