Cliffs at Bottom.


Alright here in the story, my family moved to San Diego back around 2000, my Dad wanted a new car since I was just getting my license back then, I inherited his Acura Vigor, and my Mom drives a Boxster. Dad has a pretty decent commute everyday about 40mins, all freeway, so we were leaning toward three cars, Lexus GS, Acura RL or BMW 530i.

We ended up at Cunningham BMW and my Dad noticed the X5's which at that time were essentially brand new. He liked it and figured we would need the extra room for doing random Home depot trips in our new place.

Get the X5 three months later, and well it has been downhill from there. The first two years weren't bad, occassional maintenance, nothing out of the ordinary, however in 04 my family and I were in Palm Springs, they were visiting friends and my brother and I were at Coachella music festival. Going home after seeing radiohead, it is pitch black, I notice a light come on in the gauge cluster the temp gauge is in the red.

I shut the vehicle off immediately within 3-4 seconds and pull over. I peak under the car and coolant is leaking everywhere. Get it towed and take a rental car back to San Diego. The dealer informs us the head is cracked and after some sort of pressure test determined the entire engine would need replacing. "gulp"

Okay, fine, my Dad is pissed coming from his Honda/Acura background (Mom and Dad met selling Honda's together) and I doubt my Dad ever even spent 10K on a new car in his life, let alone the $50K the X5 cost. Well the bill slighly eclipses $10K, the car was out of warranty at the time.

I don't know what happened but the replaced engine seemed to only cause a continuing myriad of problems, the past year the X5 has been at the dealer nearly 5 months total. I don't even know where to start, since ownership, we have replaced 12 window regulators/motors, another head, and my brother (who drives the X5 now, Dad has an M3) can't even leave the dealership without a CEL or Airbag light coming back on.

Two months after the engine was I was driving my Dad to the airport, on the way back the X5 begins to overheat and I turn it off as I'm pretty accustomed to at this point (4th time for me alone.) Coolant everywhere, turned out the head they installed was faulty and had to be replaced.

Within the past month my brother was left on the freeway due to a malfunctioning temp sensor, replaced for $300 and as soon as he leaves the window regulator fails once he gets back to school. He returns the next day to have it fixed, (they give him an X5 rental). He gets the X5 back with the window fixed and leaves and the CEL light comes on the next day.

At this point frustration in an understatement. He goes to drop the car off and they tell him they don't have a rental car to give him. This pretty much set him and my Dad off. The head service manager was out sick so my Dad spoke briefly with the General Manager about pending legal action.

The total amount spent fixing the X5 since 01 has been a little over $17K, more than I paid for the M3. :confused We are going to get a print out of all the dealer visits since 2001 this week, I'll fill you in on all the problems I didn't list, I know there is a lot more, just haven't pay attention to all the little details since it is my brother's car now.

Update to follow, Dad and I are meeting with the GM later this week or next week.

Cliffs.
Bought X5 in 01.
first 2-3 years, no major problems
4th year. Thermostat failed after having it recently replaced. Car overheats, cracks head, new engine installed, not under warranty $10K.
Past year the X5 has been at the dealer 5 months total out of the year.
Total cost since 2001 cost fixing > $17,000.
Brother goes to drop X5 off for the 3rd time in 3 weeks, dealer doesn't have a rental car for him, he is forced to leave. Dad flips out has had enough.
Meeting with General Manger this week to try and solve issues otherwise pending legal action.

If anyone has any knowledge regarding Lemon laws or a worthy lawyer to consult, provided we don't settle this with the GM, it would be appreciated.

Interesting link. Old, but interesting. http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=127715

Omg Teh Drama!

Diddy, you know the horror. Sticky Buns got stuck.

lmao gl i guess you should have gotten extended warranty other than that i highly doubt it is considered a "lemon" since its already been off the lot for a long time. there is no way you can prove that you dont abuse the shit out of the car

thats really sad to hear. if i were you i would give BMW the benefit of the doubt. maybe for some weird reason that one x5 was doomed to begin with. my suggestion is to get everything replaced repaired and fixed and that very day sell it. let some other sucker deal with it. dont let your car nickel and dime you to death.(in this case quite a few nickels and dimes)

just goes to show you, e30 > all

lmao gl i guess you should have gotten extended warranty other than that i highly doubt it is considered a "lemon" since its already been off the lot for a long time. there is no way you can prove that you dont abuse the shit out of the car
We don't abuse the car at all, although I get your point of not being able to prove it, either way, $17K, that is already unacceptable IMO and we're willing to explore other avenues instead of just paying.

good luck

We don't abuse the car at all, although I get your point of not being able to prove it, either way, $17K, that is already unacceptable IMO and we're willing to explore other avenues instead of just paying.

not trying to be mean but shit happens and it doesnt say anywhere that you wont have to pay for those kinds of repairs no matter the cost. fact fact warranty over you cant do anything its been awhile.

My X5's radiator's plastic expansion tank managed to crack like all other 4.4i X5s, Cunningham took care of it and replaced the radiator and tank. For some reason the techs didn't notice that the THERMOSTAT was broken. Doh! A month and a check engine light later and the car has to go back to fix the thermostat. Why didn't they inspect/take care of it when the radiator and trimmings was out of the car??

Who knows.

All I know is I have a failed window regulator, rear wiper and loud wheel bearing (gonna be replaced hopefully) and I am trying BMW of SD this time (CPO repair).

The X5 is an amazing, amazing car (in 4.4i haha), however it is a BMW MADE IN THE USA and it shows.

I hope everything goes the way you want, sounds like that it is a very difficult situation and maybe was not smart to post this online. I know it is good to vent sometimes, but probably not so good when you are involved in legal matters.

BTW, I just had my M3 at Cunningham for a broken engine fan (yikes). Michael (service manager) took care of me and the repair looks to be top notch and was able to get me in the shop the same day I called. Maybe there has been improvement lately? I dunno. I'm happy, hopefully my fan stays attached to the fan clutch this time.

Good luck and God bless all BMW owners haha.

My X5's radiator's plastic expansion tank managed to crack like all other 4.4i X5s, Cunningham took care of it and replaced the radiator and tank. For some reason the techs didn't notice that the THERMOSTAT was broken. Doh! A month and a check engine light later and the car has to go back to fix the thermostat. Why didn't they inspect/take care of it when the radiator and trimmings was out of the car??

Who knows.

All I know is I have a failed window regulator, rear wiper and loud wheel bearing (gonna be replaced hopefully) and I am trying BMW of SD this time (CPO repair).

The X5 is an amazing, amazing car (in 4.4i haha), however it is a BMW MADE IN THE USA and it shows.

I hope everything goes the way you want, sounds like that it is a very difficult situation and maybe was not smart to post this online. I know it is good to vent sometimes, but probably not so good when you are involved in legal matters.

BTW, I just had my M3 at Cunningham for a broken engine fan (yikes). Michael (service manager) took care of me and the repair looks to be top notch and was able to get me in the shop the same day I called. Maybe there has been improvement lately? I dunno. I'm happy, hopefully my fan stays attached to the fan clutch this time.

Good luck and God bless all BMW owners haha.


No you're right, there is an improvement. We got some new management so there have been some changes.

However slcook54, good luck to you trying to talk to the GM. I don't know how it will go being as how the car is out of warranty. Perhaps there will be some type of good will involved. however I have no say in it. Good luck

Funny, a photo assistant I used to hire from time to time just called me yesterday to ask about what dealership to take his X5 4.4i to. He's been having a TON of problems with it and wasn't happy with the dealer he was taking it in to because it was having problems every single week.

Apparently it's not the dealer as much as it's the vehicle...

I remember back in '04 when the problems started, kinda random. Reminds me of Tim's dads 750iL, that car has been terrible. Good luck with that.

:eek:


Aye carumba dude...Makes me want to part ways with the ol'E36.

Keep us posted.

not trying to be mean but shit happens and it doesnt say anywhere that you wont have to pay for those kinds of repairs no matter the cost. fact fact warranty over you cant do anything its been awhile.
Yeah, well like I said, that is the reason we have been paying up to this point, but my Dad has really had enough thus we decided to explore other avenues.

My X5's radiator's plastic expansion tank managed to crack like all other 4.4i X5s, Cunningham took care of it and replaced the radiator and tank. For some reason the techs didn't notice that the THERMOSTAT was broken. Doh! A month and a check engine light later and the car has to go back to fix the thermostat. Why didn't they inspect/take care of it when the radiator and trimmings was out of the car??

Who knows.

All I know is I have a failed window regulator, rear wiper and loud wheel bearing (gonna be replaced hopefully) and I am trying BMW of SD this time (CPO repair).

The X5 is an amazing, amazing car (in 4.4i haha), however it is a BMW MADE IN THE USA and it shows.

I hope everything goes the way you want, sounds like that it is a very difficult situation and maybe was not smart to post this online. I know it is good to vent sometimes, but probably not so good when you are involved in legal matters.

BTW, I just had my M3 at Cunningham for a broken engine fan (yikes). Michael (service manager) took care of me and the repair looks to be top notch and was able to get me in the shop the same day I called. Maybe there has been improvement lately? I dunno. I'm happy, hopefully my fan stays attached to the fan clutch this time.

Good luck and God bless all BMW owners haha.
Yeah, Michael Cain, he is a good guy but we have been stuck with other service people the past few times. If it does wind up in court I'll edit the post or something.

No you're right, there is an improvement. We got some new management so there have been some changes.

However slcook54, good luck to you trying to talk to the GM. I don't know how it will go being as how the car is out of warranty. Perhaps there will be some type of good will involved. however I have no say in it. Good luck

Thanks, IDK what is going to happen or what they will be willing to offer, the GM made it evident she wanted to avoid legal action and was willing to provide solutions to make it work. Who knows.


I remember back in '04 when the problems started, kinda random. Reminds me of Tim's dads 750iL, that car has been terrible. Good luck with that.
Thanks.

:eek:


Aye carumba dude...Makes me want to part ways with the ol'E36.

Keep us posted.

:D, lol, I've come pretty close.

no wonder it was up for sale

from what i know about teh lemon law is that if there is a dealership that cannot fix the original problem after the third time, it is considered to be a "lemon" and the dealership is required to buy teh car back. you should read more about it. in this case, hopefully everything works out well for you

it's called lemon cause the precedent was set by a teacher from lemon grove with a crappy car.

no wonder it was up for sale
What are you talking about?

Man.

I start my X5 this morning before work and see "CHECK COOLANT LEVEL."

I open the hood and there is coolant allllll over the expansion tank.

Damn X5.

I definitely feel your pain somewhat.

Time for another piggyback ride to Cunningham.

Welcome to the party. :D

If you don't get anywhere with the GM call BMW. They often do quite a bit to help. I don't mean to sound rude but why would you cotinually take your car to someone who can't fix it and gives you terrible service, especially in socal where you can't go a hundred miles without tripping over a few of them.

keep us updated on what happens.

sucks to hear steve, i know you told me you had problems with it, but i had no idea you had this many problems. its a 3.0 right?

i can safely say that MOST.. if not ALL USA MADE German Cars SUX!! :shifty not to be hating.. but its the truth. my relatives had x5s and MLs... (Keyword "had") i lost count to how many times their cars have been at the stealers. Once you change your engine, the car will most likely go downhill from there. I just don't trust Dealerships mechanics but hey.. they SHOULD know what they're doing correct? BUt anwyays man.. if you do buy another BMW.. you should seriously look into European Delievery. The car is fresh from Germany so chances are.. theyll most likly do a better job at essembling than the people over here. but yea.. GL man.. keep us posted..

i was thinkin about getting a X5 but after reading this.. i think ill just stick with Ms. :)

Welcome to the party. :D

Out of curiosity...why didn't your dad dump it after he had it fixed the 2nd time?

i can safely say that MOST.. if not ALL USA MADE German Cars SUX!! :shifty not to be hating.. but its the truth. my relatives had x5s and MLs... (Keyword "had") i lost count to how many times their cars have been at the stealers. Once you change your engine, the car will most likely go downhill from there. I just don't trust Dealerships mechanics but hey.. they SHOULD know what they're doing correct? BUt anwyays man.. if you do buy another BMW.. you should seriously look into European Delievery. The car is fresh from Germany so chances are.. theyll most likly do a better job at essembling than the people over here. but yea.. GL man.. keep us posted..

i was thinkin about getting a X5 but after reading this.. i think ill just stick with Ms. :)

Yeah, that's because they don't have cushy unions to keep thier jobs if they have bad performance...

But seriously yeah, Its like the VWs when they started to be made in the US. Quality diminished significantly.

Yeah, that's because they don't have cushy unions to keep thier jobs if they have bad performance...

But seriously yeah, Its like the VWs when they started to be made in the US. Quality diminished significantly.

Don't forget the VW's made in Mexico as well.

Cliffs.
Bought X5 in 01.
first 2-3 years, no major problems
4th year. Thermostat failed after having it recently replaced. Car overheats, cracks head, new engine installed, not under warranty $10K.Past year the X5 has been at the dealer 5 months total out of the year.
Total cost since 2001 cost fixing > $17,000.
Brother goes to drop X5 off for the 3rd time in 3 weeks, dealer doesn't have a rental car for him, he is forced to leave. Dad flips out has had enough.
Meeting with General Manger this week to try and solve issues otherwise pending legal action.


This is the part where you may have some legal ground. Whoever replaced that thermostat may have done something wrong causing the cooling system to have a massive failure, resulting in the damaged engine.

Otherwise, you had some bad luck. You can sue for the problems you've had with the replacement, but not the fact that it was replaced. Since the vehicle is old and out of warranty, you're probably not going to get much out of this except reembursement for a rental.

I'm not a lawyer and this in no way constitutes legal advice. Your father shoudl talk to one and see what comes of it.

Well the X5 woes have continued and continued, electrical problems causing the watertemp gauge to shoot into the red when it is not overheating. It has been at Cunningham 3 weeks of this last month, auxilliary fan went and a few other things. Luckily I found a recall on the auxilliary fan that saved like $900.

Fortunately, we met with the general manager and vented our frustration, they have agreed to buy it back for $20K, which I feel is more than we would get on the private market once all the vehicle's history is disclosed to the buyer. Thank God it is over.

Wow it worked out good job!

Wow. Excellent... They bought it back for all the money put into it, putting it back together.
At least the nightmare is done with. Any new buys now?

Yeah, exactly, we all just wanted closure.

I see an M coupe in the future, they are right around $20K :devillook

Say Hello to rear subframe failure.

Say Hello to rear subframe failure.

Not every single one...

Say Hello to rear subframe failure.
Say hello to Randy Forbes.

congrats on the sale. If they didn't buy it back I would have suggested to suit the bastards!


This is what I would have felt like doing...not really doing so though.:ar15firin :ak :bigun2 :bazooka :ripperwho :ninja :rocketwho :smilielaz :camper

You should have been in the meeting, it was pretty heated.

Well at least it's gone, I guess your dad won't be buying the new/redesigned `07 X5 this fall ;)

You should have been in the meeting, it was pretty heated.


yeah, I could have helped.

i can safely say that MOST.. if not ALL USA MADE German Cars SUX!! :shifty not to be hating.. but its the truth. my relatives had x5s and MLs... (Keyword "had") i lost count to how many times their cars have been at the stealers. Once you change your engine, the car will most likely go downhill from there. I just don't trust Dealerships mechanics but hey.. they SHOULD know what they're doing correct? BUt anwyays man.. if you do buy another BMW.. you should seriously look into European Delievery. The car is fresh from Germany so chances are.. theyll most likly do a better job at essembling than the people over here. but yea.. GL man.. keep us posted..

i was thinkin about getting a X5 but after reading this.. i think ill just stick with Ms. :)

Are European Delivery cars percieved as (or actually) better built?

Is that just hearsay?

congrats Steve, glad it all worked out. i might be in town later in july, we'll have to kick it.

I'm happy to say I've put 68k miles on my American made BMW.
If a part fails, then is replaced and fails again, it sounds more of a case of poor engineering than poor construction.

You should have been in the meeting, it was pretty heated.

Oh damn haha...i know exactly what the picture was too (mentally, haha)....glad u got it worked out, thats a lot of bull to go through

FWIW Rosner, law, and mansfield are the people to talk to when it comes to lemon law (ask me how I know). And yes Ben, EVERY single one...don't play like your ass isn't seperating on your "garage queen". Hell, my car's ass looks better than yours & I drive the shit outta it...perhaps that's the solution for BMWs crappy design?

My cousin had an X5, and it was nothing but problems. CEL's and windows, failed to start for no apparent reaona couple times, etc. He sucessfully lemoned the car.

Then he went and bought an A8, and the jury's still out on that decision, since any car with that much shit in it, just has to have it's share of electrical gremlins waiting for it down the road.

However, it seems like there are a few things BMW hasn't been able to get right. Windows are certainly one of them. My E36 and E39 both had window issues - My E36 still kinda does.

My cousin had an X5, and it was nothing but problems. CEL's and windows, failed to start for no apparent reaona couple times, etc. He sucessfully lemoned the car.

Then he went and bought an A8, and the jury's still out on that decision, since any car with that much shit in it, just has to have it's share of electrical gremlins waiting for it down the road.

However, it seems like there are a few things BMW hasn't been able to get right. Windows are certainly one of them. My E36 and E39 both had window issues - My E36 still kinda does.

It was the e36 that started the window gremlins on BMW, that damn plastic regulator...

i dont think you can sue them for anything.
and its too bad it happed out of warranty... there isnt much you can do=( bad luck.

They just don't make them like they used too.

Well the X5 woes have continued and continued, electrical problems causing the watertemp gauge to shoot into the red when it is not overheating. It has been at Cunningham 3 weeks of this last month, auxilliary fan went and a few other things. Luckily I found a recall on the auxilliary fan that saved like $900.

Fortunately, we met with the general manager and vented our frustration, they have agreed to buy it back for $20K, which I feel is more than we would get on the private market once all the vehicle's history is disclosed to the buyer. Thank God it is over.

That totally sways my opinion about Cunningham.. Good for both parties involved! :alright