Hey guys, new to the forum. I'm helping a friend mod his E46 '02 M3. (I'm not a noob to modding, however. I have extensively modded an '02 WRX, so feel free to get technical). After browsing this forum, I've realized that there really isn't much room for improvement in terms of HP and torque. (If there is, I'd actually like to hear about that too...) So we've decided that handling is the way to go. Now, as we all know, the M3 handles beautifully stock. Are suspension upgrades worth the money, or is it as good as it can get? If it is worth it, does anyone have any suggestions as to suspension kits? I have the same questions about brakes, too. Thanks for your time.

Check out www.turnermotorsports.com

Plenty of upgrades available for the E46...

There is always room for improvements...

There is a lot of room for improvement in the stock suspension. The big question is "How is the car going to be used?" Roadcourse, AutoX, 1/4, Mix, and/or street?

We really need to know the answer to the above before we could suggest any real changes to the car.

I use:

TC (http://www.tcklineracing.com/)
Ground Control (http://www.ground-control.com/)

I have a near full track setup in my car thats still livable for street use.

Thanks for the links.

It will be used on the street, and some parking lot rallys (autox).

By saying there isn't much room for improvement, I just meant that it seemed like all people could do was header back exhaust, chip, and an intake, and there was nothing more you could do without doing internals. So then, what would be the best performance mods I could do, without doing internals, to achieve max acceleration?

It also seems like none of those links have things for the 02 M3... the highest it goes is to '00.

Weight reduction......

If you replace the seats, exaust, wheels, and lose some dead weight like the air compressor and such you can take off about 200lbs from the car.

I run SSR comp rims that same me ~30lb.
Replacing the front seats could save close to 100lbs
The rear muffler is very heavy, 20lbs savings with a lighter unit.
......

For the suspension I would go with ground control IF your autoX performance is a primary concern. If not the Bilstein PSS9 would likely be a better choice.

Here is what I did to set my car up for autoX so far.
TC-Klien TA bushings.
TC-Klien lower rear control arms.
GC DA coilovers front with #450 springs.
GC rear ride height adjusters
Eibach rear spring #500
SA Koni Rear
GC Camber plates front
SSR Comp 9.5x18 wheels with Kuhmo V700 265x36-18
GC Racing sway bars front and rear

On my list for next year are:
Seats because I slide around way too much and 100lbs savings would be great.
Exaust, to save weight and ~5hp
Clutch & Flywheel
Evosport Pulleys


I am considering a Schrink cam but I am waiting on the Dyno results from Mr Law to see how it worked out for him.

Originally posted by Enigma
Weight reduction......

If you replace the seats, exaust, wheels, and lose some dead weight like the air compressor and such you can take off about 200lbs from the car.

I run SSR comp rims that same me ~30lb.
Replacing the front seats could save close to 100lbs
The rear muffler is very heavy, 20lbs savings with a lighter unit.
......

For the suspension I would go with ground control IF your autoX performance is a primary concern. If not the Bilstein PSS9 would likely be a better choice.

Here is what I did to set my car up for autoX so far.
TC-Klien TA bushings.
TC-Klien lower rear control arms.
GC DA coilovers front with #450 springs.
GC rear ride height adjusters
Eibach rear spring #500
SA Koni Rear
GC Camber plates front
SSR Comp 9.5x18 wheels with Kuhmo V700 265x36-18
GC Racing sway bars front and rear

On my list for next year are:
Seats because I slide around way too much and 100lbs savings would be great.
Exaust, to save weight and ~5hp
Clutch & Flywheel
Evosport Pulleys


I am considering a Schrink cam but I am waiting on the Dyno results from Mr Law to see how it worked out for him.

**whoosh!!!!**...that's the sound of everything you just said going right over my head lol :95

Originally posted by Enigma
For the suspension I would go with ground control IF your autoX performance is a primary concern. If not the Bilstein PSS9 would likely be a better choice.

Here is what I did to set my car up for autoX so far.
TC-Klien TA bushings.
TC-Klien lower rear control arms.
GC DA coilovers front with #450 springs.
GC rear ride height adjusters
Eibach rear spring #500
SA Koni Rear
GC Camber plates front
SSR Comp 9.5x18 wheels with Kuhmo V700 265x36-18
GC Racing sway bars front and rear

On my list for next year are:
Seats because I slide around way too much and 100lbs savings would be great.
Exaust, to save weight and ~5hp
Clutch & Flywheel
Evosport Pulleys


I am considering a Schrink cam but I am waiting on the Dyno results from Mr Law to see how it worked out for him.
TC Kline = suspension tuner
TA = Trailing arm (rear suspension)
GC = Ground Control, suspension tuner
DA coilovers = Double Adjustable dampers (rebound, compression) with threaded body for racing springs
SA = single adjustable (rebound only) rear shock
Evosport pullies = underdrive pullies to gain back HP lost from driving the accessories (water pump, alternator, and power steering)

Why do you say that the Bilstein PSS9 is better than the Advance Design (GC) dampers?

Originally posted by JamesM3M5

Why do you say that the Bilstein PSS9 is better than the Advance Design (GC) dampers?

I didn't. What I meant to say is the PSS9 is better for every day street driving because it uses softer spring rates (non-linear) and you can therefore set the struts softer. Some people find my setup to be quite harsh in everyday driving. It doesn't phase me at all.

So....

If you want a good street only setup go with the PSS9. It will do ok at the autoX and track but don't expect wonders.

For Street/track get the "street" kit from GC. This is what I have. It includes Koni's for all corners and linear springs. Its the linear springs that make this kit. I think the default kit has #325/#400 but they allow you to specify any rate you want.

Track only: I would consider the GC advanced design struts. The reason I wouldn't drive them on the street is they require frequent rebuilds from everyting I have heard. I would like my shocks to last a while and I am not yet a good enough driver to need them.

Hey everyone I have the same GC setup as Enigma but with 325/400 spring rates and no sway bars (soon to get). I love the kit and I think it rides awesome. Enigma, I was wondering how you would say the ride is (in detail and were those rates your first you had). I'm going to do a rate change because it's too soft for my taste but I'm not sure which to get exactly.

Thanks

Robert

I don't think the ride is bad at all. These are the first rates that I have tried in the car. I used http://www.tunnellracing.com/ as a good source of information for starting rates and adjusted for my slightly heavier car.

Where the car is harsh is when you hit bumps with only the left or right tires because I have very stiff sway bars. In any case its completly liveable unless you drive over some very bad roads a lot. Around here there are only 2 intersections that seems harsh and those were already pretty bad in the stock suspension so I wouldn't worry about it.

Just letting you know that you may have to end up having a BMW Center install both units because when doing a clutch job, the hydraulic lines and sensors have to be disconnected. When putting everything back on together, the hydraulic system has to be bled with the use of the BMW diagnostic computer and cannot be bled manually. The SMG unit needs to reintialize the clutch engagement point, the shift points and selector angle cylinder.

Warranty pays the tech abour 8hrs to do the job but for a customer pay, it can be 12hrs.

If none of these procedues are performed, the car will NOT go into gear.

I know. My local dealer is also a Dinan dealer. I doubt the clutch will last the duration of the warenty. When it dies I was going to buy a Dinan kit (if they are out in time) and see if they will do the labor under waranty. Doesn't hurt to ask/try.

I am getting a lot of clutch slip WOT on 2-3 shifts now. Didn't do it new 3-6k miles. They checked the clutch and said its ok so we will see how long it lasts.

Enigma,

The BMW Center should have a special tool to measure the friction material of the disc without removing the transmission.

I drove my M3 hard with many many launches and at 8100 miles, the clutch and flywheel was fine.

I cant speak for the clutch slip you're having but if you get the SMG light with a fault code 68. That means you're having a discrepency between input and output speeds in relation to gear engaged (Clutch is slipping)

Heck if you have full maintenance, I'm sure the clutch is covered anyways. Tech can install the aftermarket and you keep the stock OEM as backup.

They read the fault code and none showed up. I'll just keep driving the car until it really slips or the faults register.

What is odd is the 1-2 shift is fine, its the 2-3 that slips ? Just seems strange.

Enigma,

My car set-up is similar to yours however I went with TC Kline camber plates, TA bushings, shock tower mounts etc.

I have not done larger sway bars thinking that the stock bars are already larger than the RD bars I put on my E36 M3. Did you note a real difference with the bars or did you put it all on at one time so it is hard to now what did what?

I did it all at once. I didn't want to have to make multiple adjustments espically when I had a test & tune day to sort it all out.

The HUGE advantage of the sway bars is they are very adjustable. You can play with them to control the over/understeer as you like.

I have the front bar stiff enough I just about pick up the inside front tire accelerating out of turns because I wanted to set the car up to leverage its HP. Even with that it doesn't understeer that much (265 all corners) and its much easier to get oversteer with the right pedal now.

Also the stiff bars allow me to run slightly softer springs and still keep the body roll under control.

Interesting. I run road course track events, used to auto x but don't anymore. I am running 265/35 all they way around and the car runs with virtually no understeer and very easliy introduced throttle oversteer.

That makes sense. I have the car setup to transfer a bit more weight side to side on the front tires so I have plenty of grip to power out of turn in 2nd.

On a roadcourse you don't usually need to use 2nd gear so you can use a more neutral setup. Its much easier to get the power down in smother transitions out of turns in 3rd gear.

The great thing about the adjustable bars is I can switch the car setup from mine to yours in about 30min or less. :)