What is going on at KO Performance!!! [Archive] - Bimmerforums

Jim M3

01-21-2006, 10:45 AM

Just to clear things up here is what is going on at KO. First off we lost two full time people within the last week. In addition Midnight Autoworks Joe Gattas who worked for KO stole the KO prototype Supercharger. Understandably we are understaffed and trying to take care of standing orders first and foremost. Interestingly the orders I have been clearing up had been placed by Joe Gattas and were completely screwed up pretty much like all his orders are. The only shady part of KO was Joe Gattas who sold the 318i kits before they were ready. KO has now perfected the prototype which Joe promplty stole along with thousands of dollars worth of tools. Not the first time either he is wanted in Fl for Grand Theft. He did the exact same thing over at AA. KO has been in business for several years and delivers excellent service and products, right now we are cleaning up the mess and legal dealings that come with thiefs like Joe. I would highly recommend stearing clear of Midnight Autoworks. In the meantime your patience with KO is appreciated, we won't be going forward until all outstanding orders have been cleared up. I sincerely apologize for the delays in getting orders resolved but they will be handled with professionalism and promptness while we do damage control.

Midnight Autoworks

01-21-2006, 02:46 PM

Jim I do not apreciate you making up lies to cover your company-- KO has NEVER had their own product to sell , they are a distributer, I brought my supercharger to KO and KO did not execute manufacturing succesfully so I took my product back. As for stolin products or prototypes- they are in a customers car which KO was using for testing and John Paul needs to take that up with that customer, not me. I am surprised Jim, you have never met me in your life and you feel so freely to throw around the word thief!, I expected more from you then that. This is not the place for name calling and mud slinging, John Paul is mad because im gone and I cant build kits for him anymore.
Acusations like this will get you nothing but a lawsuit, and as of this moment you are on notice to cease this kind of harasment on this or any other forum. If you or KO have any legal bief with me I only want to hear from your lawyer and will let the courts decide.
I have nothing of KO's and KO can take that up with the customer whos car there product is on. KO never purchased the lincence for my 1.9l supercharger or my M50 manifold conversion kit, which were both designed and implemented prior to any dealings with KO Performance, (z3 power.com) Anyhow , this is not the place for name calling or mud slinging., BUT BY NO MEANS DID I TAKE ANYTHING WITH ME FROM KO! KO owns anything I devoloped on company time. But products like the supercharger or the M50 manifold were designed and sold long befor any dealings with ko (remember z3power.com). your taking cheap shots Jim, you and John Paul need to get it together and move on with business, if John paul feels there is a legal matter to take up with me he can do so through the court system.

Midnight Autoworks

01-21-2006, 03:02 PM

I just noticed a shalow reference to my dealings with AA, I do business with AA to this day and please be my guest and call them for ANY story of me stealing form AA? Did you just make that up?

Scho

01-21-2006, 04:40 PM

I just noticed a shalow reference to my dealings with AA, I do business with AA to this day and please be my guest and call them for ANY story of me stealing form AA? Did you just make that up?

I thought your name was Joe.

I personally know the owner of KO and dont consider him to be shady. It seems that Midnight Autoworks is part of the cause of KO's temporary difficulties.

I hope Midnight Autoworks did inventory before you started..

Sad, just sad....:(

Jim M3

01-21-2006, 06:33 PM

The truth will come out soon enough. In the meantime KO is in business and is not shady. The owner of Midnight Autoworks is 21 and has been fired at AA and KO in less than a year for practices just like this. Anybody who bought anything from KO and had Joe knows that is what they should expect at Midnight Autoworks. KO has been in business over 5 years and John Paul and I are people of very high ethical standards who will do exactly what we promise. If you buy something from KO you can be assured you will get exactly what you paid for in a timely fashion.

All I am saying to anybody who buys from ex KO employees opening their own business buyer beware!

Mr.M

01-22-2006, 04:27 AM

They also haven't replied to the email I sent them regarding the picture they stole from my website.

DDE Lightning Titanium edition halos, picture taken in my garage with my Mustang off to the side... note the Ohio license plate...
http://www.understeer.com/images/store/dde_ti_04_thumb.jpg

"Lava Lighting" halos on KO's site...
http://www.koperformance.com/BMW/products/lighting/lava_lighting_angel_eyes_e46/lava_lighting_angel_eyes_e46_pic2_147x111.jpg

:rolleyes

Would anyone from KO like to comment on this? Or would responding not meet your "high standards of ethics?"

Hey, guess what. Still no response. Shady.

themadhatter

01-22-2006, 11:43 PM

Would anyone from KO like to comment on this? Or would responding not meet your "high standards of ethics?"
looks like Midnight did the same to KO with an M50 manifold kit.

http://www.eatonm3.com/midnight_autoworks_m50_conversio.htm

http://www.koperformance.com/BMW/engine/manifolds/ko/ko_performance_bmw_parts_m50_manifold_conversion_k it_e36_m3_pic2.htm

I'd like to hear Midnight's comment on that one.

97m3john

01-23-2006, 01:49 AM

What is going on with this??

Midnight Autoworks

01-23-2006, 02:23 AM

Notice that the M50 manifold and the 1.9l supercharger kit is the only 2 products the KO "makes" them selves in the last 5 years?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
I developed both the manifold kit and the 1.9l kit on my own and brought them to John Paul to re-brand and sell, things went sour and now I’m selling my product alone. Oh ,and I was not fired at AA, Jim, you should make some phone calls before you post lies. Now, when I quit and stopped showing up at KO, they sent me a letter stating I was fired, I’ll give you that one seeing as how I was one of 2 employees ( me and Jim, who has never been to KO performance). They did the same for the other employee who quit just before me, Greg .<o:p></o:p>
If you’d like to talk about this here Jim, Its not my style to get down like this but I’ll continue, but only at your provoking invitation, -- -How could KO develop and test products when they don’t even have a shop! or an office, they are run and operated out of John Paul's one bed room apartment on South Beach which he also lives in. The building he lives in strictly prohibits any work in the parking lot or even to operate a home business. KO performance does not own an M3 or a BMW, except for Jims personal car which is a few thousand miles away from KO and doesn’t have the M50 kit on it, it has the Euro sport M50. As a matter of fact the building has contacted John Paul and threatened to evict him on numerous occasions for cutting pipes on the balcony.
<o:p> The owner of Midnight Autoworks is 21
And the owner of KO is 26 ,So your point is..... ? lets see , you claim KO was in business for 5 years , right? so that makes the owner 21 when he started KO , if theve realy bin around for 5 years.
</o:p>

habbie

01-23-2006, 03:58 AM

joe, the picture of honesty you certainly aint. i would'nt trust this guy as far as i can pitch him.
read this, same guy:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=195226&page=2&highlight=joe
only there his user name is JRPerformance.
i had a run in with him at AA very shady person would be putting it mildly.

here's what NickG thinks of him:
Hi Joe,

Since you decided to become a member here and join us on Bimmerforums, let me say Welcome! :wave: In an effort to save time, I'll post my comments here for everybody (since you joined the conversation); I won't be sending out any emails. Feel free to respond to them here on the board, or via private email, or give me a call.

I realize that the Z3 you showed me today was not finished. The underhood appearance (ie, cleanliness) of the car did not bother me at all. It did not play a role with me.

You mentioned that the car had a vacuum leak you were trying to figure out. Hey, I know things can go wrong during a rebuild/install. That was no big deal; I've had stumbles myself. But when I saw you had covered the throttle body, throttle position sensor, and idle speed motor with RTV silicone (was it oxygen sensor safe silicone?) in an effort to find and seal the leak, that didn't seem very professional or something an experienced technician would do. And folks, I do mean *covered*......at first I thought that there had been a fire and molten plastic had covered those pieces.

I then pointed out to you that you had left the hoses for the air shrouded injectors completely open and disconnected, both on the fuel injector side and on the side between the throttle body and mass air meter. That right there was a huge vacuum leak, and unfortunately, you didn't realize it. Did you cap/reconnect those lines? Did it help with the vacuum leak?

But when you asked me "What are knock sensors for? What do they do?" I became concerned. I would have thought that, at a minimum, somebody who installs a supercharger onto a 10:1 compression engine should know the function of a knock sensor.

Other things I noticed were that the idler pulley alignment was off (about 1/3 of the belt wasn't riding on the pulley), but that can be easily fixed. The throttle body elbow was hitting the master cylinder reservoir.......that might cause problems in the long run due to vibrations and the engine rocking.

I liked the idea of mounting the supercharger on top of the factory lower intake manifold. That placement also allowed a good amount of belt wrap for the supercharger's pulley. You shouldn't have any belt slip issues with it there.

Joe, I'm hoping you take my comments in a positive light. Any kit you sell will be compared to the Downing Atlanta kit. Us BMW owners can be very finicky. People are going to expect a kit to fit and function properly. If it doesn't, the results can be disastrous, for both them and you. Just do a search through our messages to find such stories of some members.

For a kit to be successful, its designer needs to know what he's doing, and also know the car he's working on intimately. In the case of a forced induction kit, the designer needs to know how that kit is going to affect the reliability of the car, and how the car's computer system is going to react and work with the kit.

If you have any questions for me, or would like to toss some ideas around, don't hesitate to contact me. I'm hoping you can make your kit be what everybody hopes it is. That way, in the end, we'll all benefit from it.

ps. did you tell me that you rebuilt the engine with forged steel pistons? did you include any other forged parts in the rebuild?
hey Ron you should remember this guy, no?
anyway are you back yet?

Midnight Autoworks

01-23-2006, 04:12 AM

habbie

01-23-2006, 04:16 AM

kit may have changed sadly the person behind it has not, buyer beware.

Midnight Autoworks

01-23-2006, 05:06 AM

s0crates82

01-23-2006, 05:19 AM

vendor fight! vendor fight!

...seriously though, I'm just jealous of the 318 guys... getting to have a supercharger kit for $2.2K. :(

Jim M3

01-23-2006, 07:37 PM

Notice the date on that thread. May 2003, Loooooong befor KO came into the picture. I have worked on my system for 3 years and now I have a clean bolt on kit that works and makes more HP at the rear wheels then any other system available for the 1.9l. http://www.eatonm3.com/midnightkit4.jpg
http://www.eatonm3.com/midnightmanifold.jpg

Evidence for the police, that is the missing prototype. So Joe where is your shop? KO has been in business for 5 years and delivered every product they have ever sold. KO never pretended to be a shop, the stage III kit is also proprietary of KO and has several examples on the streets.

Notice how nice the parts are in Joe's kit that is because John Paul spent the money developing this to a saleable kit to the public and spent the money tuning it properly before he sold it. Unfortunately right before he was able to start to sell it Joe stopped showing up for work and the prototype along with all the pulleys were taken from KO. Buyers Beware!!!

The earlier pictures shown were Joe's idea of a kit. John Paul knew this wasn't acceptable. Joe though hmmm I'll get paid by John Paul and then when the prototype is done I'll quit and take it with me. He set up Midnight Autoworks while he was working at KO to purposely take the kit once the kit was done. NO CREDIBILITY and certainly no MORAL RESPONSIBILITY.

When you work for a company and they pay you, your ideas are their ideas. You certainly NEVER developed the M50 kit that was done by Marco Schaefer who many people know on this board. Your idea of an M50 kit was selling Junkyard parts that didn't work. Fortunately every idea you ever had was corrected and done properly. If KO would have kept on shipping out parts the way you felt were acceptable all our hard work would be undone by a short timer in it for a quick buck.

KO is in it long term and will do the right things. BUYERS BEWARE!!!!

themadhatter

01-23-2006, 07:44 PM

habbie

01-23-2006, 07:47 PM

one and the same:)

call me later tonight, if you can.
btw did you/Bill get the box i sent? OH MY GOD....he's the silicone king supercharger guy! :rofl

oh and yes, I'm back.

themadhatter

01-23-2006, 07:49 PM

one and the same:)

call me later tonight, if you can.
btw did you/Bill get the box i sent?
I'll hit you up later this evening. I was at MSR, I completely forgot to ask him. I'll call him up as well to check.

habbie

01-23-2006, 08:06 PM

after hockey :buttrock
make it 9:30 or so.I'll hit you up later this evening. I was at MSR, I completely forgot to ask him. I'll call him up as well to check.

windsor318is

01-23-2006, 08:51 PM

jom any info on my blower i won an auction on ebay would be greatly appreciated. i won on aug19, and i havent herd anything since the initial emiail i received.
Al

Midnight Autoworks

01-24-2006, 02:48 AM

Jim, show me one customers car that has the "ko " kit on it, and that manifold looks nothing like waht john paul made, and as a matter of fact John Pauls manifold is closed over the first two cylinders and is a square plate and sits about an inch higher in the engine compartment. , Jim ,STOP LYING YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT BECUASE YOUVE NEVER EVEN SEEN THE KO PROTOTYPE !, KO has a kit that has never been tested on a car,BUYER BE WARE! it "looks like it ought to work", heres another one for you, show an installed pic if you ever had one thats not from my website. Post it here on this forum. And yes we do have a shop, its a small 1 bay shop with an office, but its a shop not an apartment, Jim your so eager to defend your friend John Paul but youve never even been to KO performance or seen a prototype or a running kit or anything of the sort. SO arguing with you is like arguing with John Pauls girl friend, you dont know ,your just making $hit up.

LeMansGTS

01-24-2006, 02:56 AM

i dealt with joseph ghattas on the phone when he was at AA..the guy has NO idea what he is doing

Midnight Autoworks

01-24-2006, 02:57 AM

KO stick to resale, its your only shot. Tell me this, If KO can "develope a supercharger kit" who would do the developing, ? John Paul? John Paul has never been under the hood of a car in his life nevermind work on a forced induction BMW.

Midnight Autoworks

01-24-2006, 03:02 AM

Jim, I cant stop laughing at that pile of BS you posted about John Paul and developing the kit in my picture, Since you know so much about the kit, and the software devolopment, lets see the dyno jet power commander form Shawn fogg, does that ring a bell for "KO original software tunning? Do a search on Shawn Fogg and power comander, what your selling is old school and your not even testing it.

habbie

01-24-2006, 03:04 AM

.i dealt with joseph ghattas on the phone when he was at AA..the guy has NO idea what he is doing

Midnight Autoworks

01-24-2006, 03:23 AM

earlier pictures shown were Joe's idea of a kit.
SO your saying the pictures on my web site is your kit and the pictures on your web is my kit... are you thinking befor you lie?

When you work for a company and they pay you, your ideas are their ideas. !!!
Not if your just a salesmen , and I never signed a non-compete agreement so my ideas are my ideas. I worked at KO for 6 months in total, thats enough time to properly desghn a strut bar, maby. I have worked on my kit for over 3 years and now you want to copy itand call it yours? I'll see you in court for that one. KO has never installed one of "there kits" anyware on any car. And you mentioned my stage 3, so I guess anything I ever desighn for the rest of my life is KO property??

BEHMER

01-24-2006, 06:26 AM

I have a few things I need to say in here.

#1 John Paul is a very standup guy with a great business ethic. He works hard to keep KO going and he sure as hell deserves some respect.

#2 In 6 years of building 2 BMW's, $30K-40K dropped in aftermarket mods, 100's of phone dealings with dozens of companies, and plenty of good and bad experiences, Joseph Ghattas takes the cake for being THE MOST ignorant, half-assed, unhelpful, untruthful, immature, problem avoiding, and unprofessional sales rep I have EVER dealt with. It frightens me that this kid is even close to having a business he calls his own. I for one will always go out of my way to express extreme caution to anyone and everyone who might ever bring up the words Midnight Autoworks. I will forever be an enthusiast but its people like Joe who really bring the dirt into the industry.

Jim M3

01-24-2006, 10:31 AM

Thanks for the support, I believe anybody who has spoke with John Paul or myself will tell you that we don't tell half truths or not deliver on what we promise.

I am not going to even respond to Joe's comments because anybody who buys from him will find out soon enough what bad customer service and lies will get you. If you buy from him you will find that out soon enough. I really don't think there is one order he placed at KO that he got right. With no one looking over his shoulder he will screw up every order he takes.

The KO stage III kit was developed by me and several other very intellegent people in the automotive industry including Karl Hugh. Nobody said John Paul was a mechanic and that isn't necessary to be in this business but having people around him who know this business is.

Like I said before I am fielding almost exclusively calls on orders that Joe Gattas has screwed up. He even screwed up and order for clear corners.

Midnight Autoworks

01-24-2006, 11:52 AM

Jim, I know your stage 3 kit for the M3 is yours and that it is a good working peice of machinery , but had John Paul done the 4cyl kit like you did yfor our kit it would be a different story. But that is not the case, the 4 cyl kit is not KO. And as far as phone sales, thats not what I do best, I work on cars best, and thats why at Midnight Autoworks I have other people take orders and consult with customers.

Nitrous115

01-24-2006, 11:54 AM

Gimmeanm3

01-24-2006, 12:12 PM

Scho

01-24-2006, 12:25 PM

Can someone ban this ass clown??

All he is doing is trying to ruin the reputation of KO, who has a great reputation in the past. I have met John Paul personally and think he is a great guy. Joe is just bad mouthing KO to boost his own business. No supporting vendor should be allowed to act in this manner. Ban this dude.

Jim M3

01-24-2006, 12:39 PM

Jim M3,
I can see that you are currently online. Can you please refund my money for my order placed under the email mbhaddad@indiana.edu. I tried to contact you countless times and you have not responded. Send me a email confirming you have refunded the money. If I don't recieve an email in a couple days I will dispute the charges with my credit card company. Its sad this is the only way I can contact you.

I haven't recieved any e-mail from you but would be glad to refund your order. My e-mail address is jrn@koperformance.com

I am not sure what you ordered. As you may have noticed I am in Wisconsin and don't recieve the general e-mails that come in. I will however work on any order you have placed and get it corrected.

Jim M3

01-24-2006, 12:41 PM

Nitrous115,

I understand your frustration...I have an incomplete order that I am waiting on from KO right now. I also had a hard time getting a hold of people over there. Eventually, I got an email from John Paul a few days ago explaining their situation over there. I do believe that KO is trying their best to straighten things out, but from the looks of it, they have a lot to "straighten out." Be patient, everything I have read so far tells me that KO is pretty upstanding and will fix the problems.

When All is said and done, I will have the M50 kit from them and hopefully install it without problems.

While taking into consideration what has been said about Joe; he did tell me that KO had been offering two m50 conversion kits at one time...one which was of noticeably lesser quality. Did Joe have anything to do with the development of this "better" kit. Which one will I be getting now that Joe is gone?

If need be we will refund your M50 purchase if you don't want to wait. John Paul has been getting all orders placed as quick as possible. Also the M50 kit we sell is NOT based off of Joe's ideas. That would be junk yard parts cobbled together to possibly work and look like ars. We use OEM BMW parts and have a kit based off of the most desired way to convert an M50 manifold, that was NOT developed by Joe but Marco Schaefer.

BimmerBoyZ3

01-24-2006, 01:45 PM

Notice the date on that thread. May 2003, Loooooong befor KO came into the picture. I have worked on my system for 3 years and now I have a clean bolt on kit that works and makes more HP at the rear wheels then any other system available for the 1.9l.

DYNO!?! Stop making claims without #s and proof. I mean hey, if thats the case...Ive got an all motor 1000mhp 4cyl hybrid in my BMW. :buttrock

Gimmeanm3

01-24-2006, 04:26 PM

Jim M3,

Sorry Jim. I don't want to convey that I am impatient, I was just trying to relate to someone else who was frustrated. I was near to disputing the charges on my credit card too. But now that I understand what I going on, I am fine with being patient...I just wanted Nitrous115 to understand that also. Sorry for the confusion, and I am still looking forward to doing the m50 conversion.

Thanks!

BMWManiac

01-24-2006, 11:09 PM

I've had nothing but good dealings with KO Performance....the ONLY issue I've ever had with KO was when Joe took my order....Gregg corrected the situation after I calling several times for a tracking number a week later...but it hadn't shipped yet.

Anyways, anybody remember me buying my turbo kit from AA....you can reference my threads and see who I bought it from.

habbie

01-24-2006, 11:12 PM

let me take a wild guess...Joe? and he must of messed it up something awful? ;) I've had nothing but good dealings with KO Performance....the ONLY issue I've ever had with KO was when Joe took my order....Gregg corrected the situation after I calling several times for a tracking number a week later...but it hadn't shipped yet.

Anyways, anybody remember me buying my turbo kit from AA....you can reference my threads and see who I bought it from.

BMWManiac

01-24-2006, 11:22 PM

It took Karl and Mike talking to me personally and resolving the whole issue. Just how every soldier represents the Army, I felt Joe represented AA and I was completely wrong. When you spend that kind of money, you have to trust the company you deal with and if it wasn't for Karl and Mike talking to me, I wouldn't have a turbo M3 right now.

1mpowerme

01-25-2006, 12:12 AM

With all due respect I have to show my support for KO Performance. I spent quite a bit of money with them over a year ago and the customer support Jim offered me and the quality of parts were top notch. It went with a stage II kit of theirs.

Most recent has been a very large purchase of what you could call their stage III kit for the E36 M3 and again the support I received was well above average with a few minor hiccups which allowed them to rise to the occasion and show they support their customers.

Jim Nolden and I have spent literally hours on the phone together and countless e-mails. He's an honest guy and has a love and passion for this industry. I know he does the best he can with what challenges are dealt their way.

Last week was a huge mess for them with the loss of a couple employees from what I was told not to mention the kits that had been stolen (as described by Jim earlier in this thread). During that week I did not get any response to issues I had and began to get quite frustrated, BUT I HAD NO IDEA HOW SEVERE THEIR PROBLEMS WERE THAT WEEK. So I feel some empathy here.

Just to show an example of the Integrity of KO Performance......

A supplier they were getting a part from that was part of my stage III kit was being completely non-responsive. I had paid for this part up front, and their price to me was VERY competitive and obviously marked up with minimal mark up. When I ran out of time and had to have the part, I sourced it through another vendor and KO Performance willingly refunded the money with a personal hand-written check by John Paul, one of the primary owners of KO. Needless to say I was very impressed by the promptness and personal attention.

+1 for KO Performance.......

windsor318is

01-25-2006, 02:55 AM

well....so far from what ive read, im hoping KO resolves this problem soon, or im also going to have to ask for a refund. please keep up us up to date jim

BMWManiac

01-25-2006, 08:53 AM

I think we are all [I]supporting[I] KO Performance, just that one bad apple was trying to destroy the harvest....

Jim M3

01-25-2006, 10:20 AM

If need be we will refund your M50 purchase if you don't want to wait. John Paul has been getting all orders placed as quick as possible. Also the M50 kit we sell is NOT based off of Joe's ideas. That would be junk yard parts cobbled together to possibly work and look like ars. We use OEM BMW parts and have a kit based off of the most desired way to convert an M50 manifold, that was NOT developed by Joe but Marco Schaefer.

I have been asked to clarify that Marco Schaefer has nothing to do with KO Performance. He did however give us the ideas for the M50 manifold kit and the associated parts that make the kit as good as it is. Just giving credit where credit is due.

I appreciate everybodies support here we are attempting to catch up on the numerous orders that are still out there. The horizon is starting to appear.

Jim M3

01-25-2006, 10:21 AM

well....so far from what ive read, im hoping KO resolves this problem soon, or im also going to have to ask for a refund. please keep up us up to date jim

I feel a solution is coming soon the kit is done we just need our jig back to start shipping kits.

Jean@ActiveAutowerke

02-15-2006, 11:36 AM

Dear Moderators and Members,

First and foremost, Midnight Autowerks will NOT be doing any business with Active Autowerke ( sorry Joe ). Secondly, I am asking you to cease all your "group buys" that have anything to do with any of our products. (Customers, if you would like to purchase our Track Pipe you can call us directly or speak with one of our recognized distributors: KO Performance, Turner Motorsports, NA Motorwerks, or Bimmerworld)

Just a thought: but you might also want to stop using the name Midnight Autowerks ( just some good advise ), but do what you want, you always do.

My official 2 cents

Jean-Claude

02-16-2006, 10:02 AM

This thread has made for some of the most entertaining reading in months!

1. Only a select 2 or 3 will really know the real story about the SC kit.
2. It is been shown from many CUSTOMERS that KO takes care of business and their customers very well.
3. This Joe charactor on the other hand has pissed off alot of people and left a bad taste in previous employers mouths as it seems.

MCM97

02-16-2006, 11:25 AM

Like Jim said, credit where credit is due - I picked up an X-brace from his this weekend and it shipped out via Fed Ex yesterday. I won't be home to install it for another 5 weeks but it is comforting to know it'll be there waiting thus so far so good and thanks KO!

332ti

02-17-2006, 06:46 AM

so when is the court date??

If KO is so great, why did this guy's kit come like this??

This > When he sees shipment http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=7436&page=2

This> pictures of his shipment http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=7436&page=4 It looks like crap.

Jim M3

02-17-2006, 10:24 AM

That is the work of Joe Gattas and the people that got those kits were refunded. KO spent hours of R&D getting the new prototype built and doing all the tuning. I believe John Paul has addressed that in another thread.

lem0n

02-17-2006, 04:11 PM

On the topic of Joe Ghattas, let me tell our story. I'm a reasonable man and prefer to resolve issue(s) directly with the company, rather then making things public and ugly; however, this is one of the times when exception to the rule applies.
Last year we have purchased an M44 supercharged kit from Joe, when he was still at KO. After unpacking this diseasteous piece of machinery, we called Joe and asked him to pick it up ASAP and issue a refund, as there would be no way in hell we'd put this into one of our customers' cars.
That very night I noticed a FS post on BF about KO selling an S52 engine, something we were looking for to install into our project car. So next day I contacted Joe and talked to him about getting the engine instead, plus paying whatever was the balance. The deal included an S52 engine from '99 M3 Convertible with 16k mi, manual transmission, driveshaft, rear carrier and 3.23 LSD. Long story short, after 3 months of calling Joe and hearing lies, we finally get the package. Driveshaft is missing. 3.23 LSD is actually a 3.91 open-end. CarFax for the engine reveals that it's actually out of '98 M3 coupe, with 70k mi and True Mileage Unknown on top of that. Cherry on the cake is, after we do a leakdown test, cylinder 4 has 28% leakdown from bent intake valves (mishift). At this point Joe is MIA and KO is royally f'ed, as their phones are dead and emails are unanswered. However, I have to give enormous props to John Paul for getting back to us as quickly as possible, based on the situation he found himself in, explaining everything and working out the solution with us. He seems to be a stand-up guy and I will not hesitate to do future business with him and his company.
So, in case anyone has anymore doubts, please read this and ask yourself if you really want to deal with Joe Ghattas and Midnight Motorwerks.
Also, a note to mods, you should probably consider employing some kind of screening process for prospective Bimerforums advertisers/supporters, as things like this should never happen.

Dimitri
Landshark Automotive

Midnight Autoworks

02-17-2006, 07:05 PM

themadhatter

02-17-2006, 07:09 PM

Joe did manfucature the S/C kit under John Pauls supervision. John Paul did design the manifold and ordered Joe to manufacture it exactly as illustrated on the photos. Joes design is illustrated in our website (www.eatonm3.com (http://www.eatonm3.com))
aren't you Joe? :confused

Midnight Autoworks

02-17-2006, 07:09 PM

By the way, given Joes history in dealing wiht customers, I Gus Rodriguez will be handling all customers transactions.
I emphasize on business ethics and will adhere to customers individual needs.
I ask to try to neglect Joes history and let me prove my meticulous efforts in providing quality products with no run arounds.
Gus

habbie

02-17-2006, 07:11 PM

:rolleyes

Midnight Autoworks

02-17-2006, 07:11 PM

aren't you Joe? :confused

I am working together with Joe. I am the owner of Midnight Autoworks
Gus Rodriguez

themadhatter

02-17-2006, 07:11 PM

themadhatter

02-17-2006, 07:15 PM

I am working together with Joe. I am the owner of Midnight Autoworks
Gus Rodriguez
I see. Let us know when Joe robs you blind and runs off with your goods. :)

-Ron

habbie

02-17-2006, 07:19 PM

:lol :lol :lol :lol
ron 2 maw 0
the best one yet in a line of classics.:nutz:

themadhatter

02-17-2006, 07:22 PM

:lol :lol :lol :lol
ron 2 maw 0
the best one yet in a line of classics.:nutz:
just stating the obvious. :dunno

AA - check

KO - check

Midnight Autoworks - pending

habbie

02-17-2006, 07:24 PM

.just stating the obvious. :dunno

AA - check

KO - KO'd you meant...;)

Midnight Autoworks - pending

Midnight Autoworks

02-17-2006, 07:51 PM

just stating the obvious. :dunno

AA - check

KO - check

Midnight Autoworks - pending

Joe never had any problems with AA the guy running his mouth is the salesman that replaced Joe.

Storamin

02-17-2006, 07:52 PM

If Joe is such a bad employee, why did he work at KO for 6 months?

If I know someone is underperforming... goodbye.

I dealt with Gregg at KO Performance in the past and have been pleased. Someone mentioned that another employee had left? Is Gregg no longer working at KO?

Midnight Autoworks

02-17-2006, 07:55 PM

VPD

02-17-2006, 09:25 PM

After reading through this thread (which I only found yesterday) and seeing the things about Joe and Midnight Autoworks I was very disturbed.

Even more disturbing to me was that unauthorized images of our products were taken from our website ( www.victoryproductdesign ) and posted on their site for sale. :mad

I would like to public state that Victory Product Design has no affiliation, past or present with Midnight Autoworks or any of it's employees. I would ask that you please remove these images from your website as soon as possible.

Fife Ellis
owner
Victory Product Design

lem0n

02-17-2006, 10:04 PM

Joe is not a bad employee

I beg to differ. Would you ask Joe to give us a call back and return five thousand dollars he charged us for pallet of scrap metal?

mcbear

02-18-2006, 12:15 AM

Well, Gus and Joe should get along well, they both have the same grasp of subject-verb agreement and spelling.

On the other hand, good luck to the rest of the vendors, many of whom I have done business with no bad luck.

Jim M3

02-18-2006, 09:58 AM

Joe never had any problems with AA the guy running his mouth is the salesman that replaced Joe.

The salesman replacing Joe? Do you have any idea what your talking about. I have been the KO sales manager for 2 years. Face it Joe Gattas is a punk and you will eventually get ripped off by him just like everybody else does. This crap of selling a junk motor is just the tip of the iceburg with Joe he has no soul and couldn't give a crap about anybody. The guy is the epitomy of all that is bad in the BMW tuning industry.

As for Gus the SC on his car is KO Property that he never paid a dime for and the police have been having discussions with him about that. If this is the type of guy you want to do business with then good luck, Midnight Autoworks indeed there couldn't be a better name other than Rip Off Artist Autowerks. GB on's AA products that you don't even sell. So how were you going to pull that one off take everybodies money and then try and figure out how to come up with the product?

Jim M3

02-18-2006, 10:09 AM

Joe never had any problems with AA the guy running his mouth is the salesman that replaced Joe.

This is precious, Joe was selling product out the back door at AA using AA paperwork and representing it as AA product, and putting the money in his pocket. Then when the junk showed up at the customers door not looking like anything AA would consider selling guess who ended up repaying the customer, thats right AA. Joe also was driving around with 3k worth of an AA customers wheels on his car when he was fired. No AA never had a problem with Joe. Running my mouth I don't think so, just telling the truth as it was told to me from AA representatives.

z3papa

02-20-2006, 06:03 PM

Well this thread has been really enlightening about the trade wars which can arise between auto vendors. I have just one phrase Joe may want to really look into when considering further posts in this case -- tortious interference with a business relationship. It is really not a good idea to open up and register a business entity which is in direct competition with your employer while you still falsely represent your allegiances by working in an employee-employer relationship. Just for the record -- while I'm not licensed in FL, I am an attorney.

Hope everything works out for you guys. See ya.

Hollywood Hamilton

02-21-2006, 11:24 PM

I usually stay out of the e-fights especially when Vendors are involved, but, I have to say, I had a near miss with Joe Gaddis. I almost bought the M44 and DASC he had on his Z3. I think I was introduced to Ouri (Habbie) right at that time for a reason. I had the money ready and Ouri let me know that the engine was going through water and oil like crazy and he made a big deal about shipping it.

I called AA to get a strut tower bar for the rear, when he asked what kind of car I had, he laughed and said, We don't have anything for your car. and abruptly tried to get me off of the phone.

My only interaction with KO has been positive. I think it's only right to give them the benefit of the doubt on this one.

Just my $.02 but from my limited experience with both sides and, when I worked at Bavarian Auto Recycling, Lem0n (Dimitry @ Landshark) was MORE than a cool person to work with. I can see where Joe tried to screw him, I think he tried to do that to me too.

Like I said, my .02.

Barry

02-22-2006, 12:02 AM

FYI Joe's company Midnight autoworks is in no way affiliated with My company Midnight Autowerks or Midnight Automotive Group, Inc.

Same name, different spelling.

I wonder where he got I idea for the name from. Ummm

Barry
Active Autowerke - Midnight AutoWerks
http://www.midnightautowerks.com/ProjectCars/m3/mabadge.jpg

Hollywood Hamilton

02-23-2006, 01:36 AM

Woah, Barry, Are you serious?

You have legs to stand on when it comes to copyright infringement if your name is copyrighted.

I hate to tell you Barry, Joe cost you a sale with his attitude. Not that you guys make that much for my car, but, still.

I think you guys have alot of fence mending to do with customers just due to the way Joe treated people.

cosmom3

02-28-2006, 08:26 PM

Jim has answered a few qustions for me over the last year or so and has been very helpful even when not making a sale. AA has also been very cool and nice on the phone when asking about there exhuasts and shifters.

Which brings me to ask why are both of the companys involved with this character Joe? Why didn't someone call Joe up and let him know what was going on? WHY is this thread still alive while nothing has been solved to date?

Joe seems like a real fool, and for anyone to deffend him just makes them look bad as well. In my opinion you can only make so many mistakes, after that kick there ass to the curb.

Hope all this can work out soon...

NaziRocket26

02-28-2006, 08:26 PM

:eyecrazyFYI Joe's company Midnight autoworks is in no way affiliated with My company Midnight Autowerks or Midnight Automotive Group, Inc.

Same name, different spelling.

I wonder where he got I idea for the name from. Ummm

Barry
Active Autowerke - Midnight AutoWerks
http://www.midnightautowerks.com/ProjectCars/m3/mabadge.jpg

windsor318is

03-09-2006, 02:36 AM

so back to whats important... Jim are we getting anywhere with this blower, i havent received a response from whoever it is that you forwarded my messages too.
Al

Patrón

03-09-2006, 05:12 PM

so back to whats important... Jim are we getting anywhere with this blower, i havent received a response from whoever it is that you forwarded my messages too.
Al
:eek2

tomas3314

03-15-2006, 10:48 PM

Wow...alot of b.s. going on. Hate to hear so much drama going on with various entities/vendors. Kind of makes you think twice when hundreds of $$ are spent with an online business across the country. Either way had to read this whole episode because I have my own dealing with a few companies mentioned.

As for K.O....always had positive dealing with them and their customer service- in particular John Paul. Usually spoke with him. Over "the years" have bought my UUC Exhaust, underdrive pullies and AA chip from them.

As for AA...also have had very good dealings with their customer service and technical support.

I hope it all gets straightened out. As we can all see by the amount of "views" this thread has seen or any like this, one's reputation and word go a long way. Having a loyal customer is priceless.

BCM M3

03-20-2006, 06:22 PM

I didn't read this whole thread, but I think I should share my experience with Joe Gattas and KO performance. I placed an order with Joe at KO this past summer for an M50 manifold install kit, which Joe had created for KO (he worked there at this point). When the 'kit' arrived, it was of simply a box of junk, none of which was at all usable to install the manifold. It consisted of rusted old hose clamps, cracked scraps of hose, and a junked M50 fuel rail.

I informed Joe of the situation and let him know that I would be returning the 'kit' and expected a refund. Long story short, Joe would not respond to my emails, and simply scammed me out of the money.

Finally, I contacted John Paul, the owner of KO, and forwarded him all of the emails I had sent Joe with a complete explanation of everything that happened. He IMMEDIATELY cut me a refund check for the full amount including shipping, and sent it out the same day.

Cliffs Notes:
1. Joe Gattas is a LIAR and a SCAM ARTIST. Everyone should avoid dealing with him at all costs.
2. John Paul at KO is an honest businessman and a stand-up guy. He cleaned up Joe's mess, even though it was not his fault and I'm sure it cost him some money. Although I had such a bad experience, I would probably be willing to give KO another chance now that Joe is gone.

Black96m3

03-21-2006, 03:32 AM

Jesus, this guy Joe sounds like the DEVIL!!!

I can't believe none of you guys had this guy's legs broken or something!

You can be damned sure if this shithead scammed me for money I would have taken a little road trip and ripped him a new one.

Anyways I'm tired and this thread has been very entertaining.

Someone relieve this world of such a scumbag PLZ

windsor318is

03-26-2006, 07:36 PM

bump

wooven

03-27-2006, 02:20 PM

add me to the list of unhappy customers.. had a bad experience once..had enough

JPK

03-28-2006, 06:56 PM

windsor318is -

You will be recieving a full refund on your money. Please email me directly or call for details. I apologize for not getting back to you yet.

Certain ex-salespersons were unfortunatley not too great at keeping their sales entries in our accounting records up to date and as such greatly slowed down my match up of sales records, accounting records, and funds recieved, esp. concerning mistakes made or refunds due, due to the actions of same ex-salesperson, admist the chaos of the first two months of this year seeing as some entries where just flat out missing, or didn't have invoices in some cases...

please email me or call.

z3papa

03-29-2006, 12:39 PM

I wonder if I could start a company and name it "Midnight Autowerx". Just kidding. I mean how close can you get it before you start stepping all over the line.

StreuB1

03-29-2006, 10:01 PM

Habbi, your just upset you actualy had to pay Active for the work they did on your car. I was just inforcing company policy, and your car ran better then it ever did and I gave you the M50 manifold for free, but I don't want to get into this with you again.

I just read the first page and I'll go out on a limb here.

This midnight person is a moron and that kit looks like garbage.

Thats coming from a 28 yearold whos been fabricating for 12 years, is a certified journeyman machinist and a degree'd mechanical and controls engineer.

Find another field cuz this isnt your forte.

And KO is a good company IMO.

windsor318is

03-30-2006, 02:41 AM

Furious

03-30-2006, 03:38 AM

the comments in this thread pretty much solidify Joe's character. i have not done business with KO but was planning on it (i will wait a bit though) ive heard nothing but great things about this company.

as for the midnight autowerks... I would also seek legal action on the infringement of your name, the simple fact that your names are pronounced the same will loose you business, and it’s a shame that you should have to suffer because others cannot be honest in a field where honesty is your livelihood

REG1520

04-25-2006, 10:57 PM

dmb882

04-25-2006, 11:00 PM

JPK

04-27-2006, 01:59 PM

Unfortunately before I saw all these threads I ordered the M50 Manifold kit from Joe at MA. After repeated lies, misrepresentations and delays in issuing a requested refund I have instituted a claim with my credit card company. I find his actions deplorable. Any questions, you can contact me, John H. Griffin, Esq. at john@jhgriffinlaw.com .

Hey John,

I'm sorry you've now also had a bad encounter with Joe...

We're glad that sooo many members here have posted the truth, but it's unfortunate that a lot of people don't have the time to read up on what the whole story is, and made purchases that, like yours, resulted in disappointment.

On a postiive note: if you're interested in picking up the KO M50 Conversion kit, I have 33 M50 manifolds in stock now, and we're peicing out the parts for the Conversion kits as we speak. We expect to start shipping next week.

Ty Vil

04-29-2006, 06:22 AM

Kudos to Jim and John Paul, my one experience with them was prompt and professional.

Balthazarr

05-08-2006, 02:35 PM

Hey John,

We're glad that sooo many members here have posted the truth, but it's unfortunate that a lot of people don't have the time to read up on what the whole story is, and made purchases that, like yours, resulted in disappointment.

On a postiive note: if you're interested in picking up the KO M50 Conversion kit, I have 33 M50 manifolds in stock now, and we're peicing out the parts for the Conversion kits as we speak. We expect to start shipping next week.

I read this today for the first time and surprisingly entertaining.
Sad huh?

So I take it John, that you have an actual brick and mortar setup now?
I can't see storing all that stuff in your apartment.
Or was that more of Joe's bs about selling out of your home?:cool

Consensus is this JG is an unprincipled jerk.
I for one don't know how anybody could expect to sell product and then send rusted parts and cracked hoses.
Makes zero sense to me.

windsor318is

05-16-2006, 07:18 PM

still waiting for my fucken refund from KO performance. whats the issue?

JPK

05-16-2006, 07:34 PM

We have managed to refund all but 4 remaining customers from the Joe Ghattas fiasco and resultant aftermath from his time at KO Performance.

You are one of the remainig 4 customers we have left to refund.

We recieved your paypal refund request.

We will continue doing everything in our power to continue to prioritize the refunds of the last remaining customers and will refund everyone as quickly as possible.

We are sorry that we do not have have the funds to refund everyone at this time, and we appreciate your patience as we continue to do absoultely everything within our power to get you a refunds as quickly as possible.

We have NOT forgotten you and you will be refunded.

Furious

05-16-2006, 09:46 PM

id just like to say that even after seeing this thread, i still decided to give KO a shot, and they didnt dissapoint, John-Paul was very quick to get my order out and helped me with my questions.

hang tight windsor he wont screw you.

windsor318is

08-04-2006, 10:04 PM

soooo any update, still havent received my refund yet....

OxfordM3

08-04-2006, 11:28 PM

I was about to order some shocks from them, but this thread makes me hesitent. :(

Iron Chef

08-05-2006, 02:30 AM

I was about to order some shocks from them, but this thread makes me hesitent. :(
I've had zero problems in my 2 seperate orders from them.

Black96m3

08-05-2006, 02:34 AM

JP was pretty great with my purchase. The X-brace was a bit late but it wasn't his fault and he e-mailed me to update me on that. All is well in bimmerland :)

JPK

08-05-2006, 04:49 PM

Hey Guys....

Here's some news on that situation:

Congrats on 318ti.org for finally seeing the light on that situation... we're still tying up headaches caused by his crim"**l activities while he was trying to sabotage KO....

Good news for the remaining refundees! We are finally starting to get close to paying some of you guys back. Got some things in the works that should be brining in more cash to accomplish that. I will be refunding you guys in order of who purchased first. I expect to knock one of you guys (or two) off the list this month!

mbanks21

08-17-2006, 09:39 PM

I got my shocks and RSM's today JP. Thanks for the excellent service, as usual!

BMWManiac

08-18-2006, 10:16 PM

JP, I recieved the M50 manifold conversion today and the entire looks excellent. The manifold is clean and definitely appears to be in "like new" condition. The instruction manual is half the size of a bentley, which should definitely help the nauvice wrench turner like myself! Some of the pics are a little difficult to see, but I'm not too worried about it! Thanks again!

MasterM3

08-19-2006, 12:50 PM

JPK

08-19-2006, 04:07 PM

JPK

08-19-2006, 04:14 PM

John Paul,

I've been a loyal customer and ordered quite a few OEM parts from you. I sent you an email twice and was told you would respond the next day. Since then I have resent the email 4 times and haven't heard from you since.

Hey there,

Sorry I haven't gotten back to your email yet! I try to answer them as they roll in but right now we're still pretty under-staffed so it's gotten me behind on quote outs.

We're definately not trying to ignore you though!

We've been really working on improving our website with more links for e-com and trying to make it easier to find products categorically, etc. so I haven't had as much time to devote to quotes lately :(.

we will get to yours though as soon as yours is in que!

BMWManiac

08-19-2006, 05:48 PM

JP, just so you can make initial corrections, I think you left out something because on page 18, you refer to a step and you put "xx" instead of the page number...

Sarkis

08-20-2006, 08:18 PM

JPK

08-21-2006, 05:41 PM

JP, just so you can make initial corrections, I think you left out something because on page 18, you refer to a step and you put "xx" instead of the page number...

sorry about that!

We've been spending most of our time lately on trying to get our website updated with more products. We have only about 1000 parts on our site and we carry over 30k!

I'll add that to the to do list though. As we find small oversights, we try to clean them up as quickly as we can.

How'd the rest of your instal go?

JPK

08-22-2006, 06:00 PM

i just ordered french fogs from KO today. I had a question about them and e-mailed them they replied very very quickly to me. Which impressed me for a saturday afternoon order. They look very perfessional. I have never ordered from them before. It will be interesting to see how quick i get my tracking # and the product. I will report back soon

Hey Mazmanian, I just emailed you your tracking # on your French fogs order. Shipping tomorrow. The truck already came and left today.Fed Ex Ground

Z300991

08-27-2006, 12:00 AM

Ordered a set of under drive pullies from Joseph and got the wrong one's.

Joseph never returned my emails or calls.

Fianlly I got someone else. He fixed the problem and it was OK.

Seems like Jospeh is the problem.

Alx

Sarkis

09-02-2006, 04:34 PM

havent been online much this week. But my french fogs arrived Tuesday as said. In excellent condition Thanks a lot to Ko great customer service and products :clap

windsor318is

09-26-2006, 03:48 PM

any update? how many people are left to pay(any idea exactly when ill be getting my money back?), its almost been a year now.

windsor318is

09-28-2006, 04:38 PM

bump

JPK

09-28-2006, 04:53 PM

Hey Dan,

Here's what we've got in order of who put in their orders first:

Dan M.
Jared Z.
Adriano O.

That's it!

We're really sorry it's taking so long, but we've gotten everyone else paid back. Unfortunatley, we've been negative each month this year on profits vs. expenses whcih has made paying anyone back at all nearly impossible, but the pay backs are our # 1 priority. In fact, we have used what little credit we had remaining to pay back all but you three, and if we had the credit left, you'd be refunded already as well.

We greatly appreciate your amazing patience and have not forgotten you.

windsor318is

11-10-2006, 06:48 PM

any chance of me getting my refund just in time for christmas???

3twenty3is

05-03-2007, 07:58 PM

John Paul,

Are you or anyone else at KO reading emails to the sales@koperformance.com email address? Or checking the GB on euro lights thread?

I haven't heard anything from anyone in weeks on the tails that were purchased from you that do not work.

windsor318is

07-05-2007, 06:26 PM

bump, i havent got a response to my email yet john paul, and its almost going on 2 years and i havent seen my refund yet, im sure you guys have made 1900 bucks in 2 years....

svart

07-05-2007, 09:17 PM

wow windsor... er wow.

hmsM3

07-05-2007, 09:23 PM

holy christ!!! i've purchased stuff from ko b4 and i still will do business with them and john paul is such a nice guy and he's got the best prices on aa gen III exhausts too. i know ko got screwed by joe but damn bro pay the man back its been over a year.

windsor318is

07-06-2007, 10:37 AM

2 years in november

hmsM3

07-06-2007, 05:11 PM

2 years in november
:eek:

windsor318is

07-09-2007, 02:11 PM

bump

svart

07-09-2007, 04:42 PM

I mean they HAVE to have something to say about this..

windsor318is

07-10-2007, 01:23 PM

they usually do, maybe hes on vacation, and ive been very patient with him

TCarlisle

07-11-2007, 07:08 AM

they usually do, maybe hes on vacation, and ive been very patient with him

I would say you have been more than patient,and it is inexcusable that you have not been refunded. I think enough time has passed that blaming this on an ex-employee is no longer valid. I think they should refund your money and offer something for your trouble.

windsor318is

07-13-2007, 12:37 PM

i agree, but my money back is all i can really ask for

hmsM3

07-13-2007, 01:43 PM

dude why dont you just call him. go to his site and get the #

TCarlisle

07-13-2007, 02:04 PM

i agree, but my money back is all i can really ask for

This vendor seemed to get a lot of support from the community in this thread, and seems to have a good rep, and it is a shame to resort to drastic measures. But at the end of the day for whatever reason, has not followed through on a commitment to refund you for non-delivery of the product.

I assume that in addition to posting in this thread every once in a while, that you also call/e-mail periodically to inquire. When you do that, are your e-mails answered and your calls returned?

It seems like a no-brainer small claim case -- you paid for something and received no product and no refund. On top of that, KO's postings in this forum could be considered a verbal contract to repay you (they would have to repay you even if they didn't come here and make that commitment)

Have the lawyer file and represent the small claim for the amount of the purchase, plus about 5% to cover the change in the value of the money over time (inflation, etc), plus the cost of the attorney and court fee's.

I'm sorry, but how long should a person remain patient?

jsp98m3

07-13-2007, 04:51 PM

The laws of the state of CA are very clear.

1. You must sue in small claims court in the jurisdiction where the transaction took place. That is in CA at the county courthouse wherever KO is located.

2. In CA, small claims is for 7.5K and you are specifically NOT allowed to use an attorney to file or represent yourself, although you can have an attorney prepare the paperwork.

3. The judgment will be for the cost of the item and filing expenses. You cannot recover one penny for a lawyers time to prepare the paperwork. You might be able to do so in any financial recovery phase.

So, I think you are screwed or have to depend on the moral character of JP. Or you have to make it embarrassing enough for them that they HAVE to take care of it or go belly up.

Apexcone has just this week finally settled a small claims judgment against one of our vendors. We put lien on their property, screwed their corporate credit (more than it was) and had a bench warrant for the arrest of the owner issued. That last item finally got them to pay I think.

If you want to travel (at least twice, perhaps up to 5 times) to CA to sue them in small claims and win, you can levy 10% interest on the balance.

Be aware, you better have an iron clad case like we did with written POs, invoices, tracking numbers, proof of delivery signatures etc. If you sue and your case is light and the judge finds that you can't prove the debt, it is dismissed and you cannot appeal. Win and they DO get to appeal.

So, shame him, beg him or show up at his front door with two large friends and a dolly to lug away his big screen tv. But I would not suggest small claims.

Jim

TCarlisle

07-13-2007, 05:53 PM

I thought KO was in Florida. I would think that an attorney can represent on behalf of a plaintiff so far away. If that were not the case, then people could get away with this all over the place, becuase it will cost this gentleman more to travel and file the case than the case is worth. There has to be a legal mechanism to handle this type of scenario.

I would normally say file a complaint with the BBB, but I don't see KO listed as a recognized business by the BBB. Or I would say file a complaint with the FTC, but this gentleman is a Candian citizen, so I am not sure the US Federal Trade Commission can help.

Yes, it would certainly bne best if KO would make good on the public commitment they made to this gentleman, but for whatever reason that hasn't happened and it seems they checked out of this thread.

JPK

07-13-2007, 07:21 PM

Gentlemen,

We definitely haven't checked out of the thread, and definitely don't intend on letting Adriano, or Jered Zander rot in the dust on this. We already paid back about 10 men who we were left with from this, and we only have a couple left.

We will fully repay both men every last cent we owe them. We will not dodge it, or anything else.

I have built my company's reputation on running an honest business in a dis-honest industry. Our customer support, I think, has helped to show this over the years. We mean what we say, and say what we mean, and we have grown every year, bigger and bigger with more repeat customers and more new customers every year - and we see no signs of that stopping. (of course we are not yet big enough where the money is "piling up" like a TMS or UUC)

I sent a payment to Jered for $400 of what we owe him only 6 weeks ago, although we still owe him more.

At this point, it may make more sense for us to start sending Adriano installments back as well as opposed to trying to put away enough to lump sum our debt to you... but believe me that IF we had any money what-so-ever left to pay these two men off completely, we would have done so the instant we could. No one likes to be in debt, least of all due to the circumstances that brought this one about.

It is not an easy thing to start and run a business from scratch, with no start-up capital. At least not in my experience lol...

Some may consider it an easy thing to survive a criminal employee's attempts to destroy their past place of employement, and simultaneous breach of contract from another employee, but for me, it has been difficult and we are just now, a year and a half later, begginnig, and only begginning to climb out of the decimation financially. To put it in perspective, maybe some of you can imagine what it would be like to have to come up with an average couples salary, out of thin air, in one month, when you already had no savings... and then play catch up... and you can begin to conceptualize how crazy it has been.

It has not been fun.

It has not even been remotely enjoyable, and worst of all, it has been a sad experience to owe a couple of our own customers money because of my ex-employees bad choices which I am, and have been responsible for as the owner of the company.

Granted, some may argue, what business do you have operating a business with no start-up capital, or reserves to weather stuff like that?! Honestly, I give young people that want to start their own company advice based on the hardships and mistakes I have been through, of which having a huge savings before launching out is now one precept I push very hard.

I have been working probably an average of 11-14 hours / day, six days a week, for the last 2 years straight just to keep it together.

Only recently we have been able to get to the point where I could get a part time customer service and sales guy in here, Sherwin, whom many of you have spoken with on the phone to place an order, and things are slowly creeping the right direction, and it is starting to get exciting again becuase there's some light at the end of the tunnel, and with the customer service help, I have been able to start to get more on top of my to-do list, and catch up on everything that has been piling up and also provide better service to our customers, and, most importantly, increase our sales dramatically...

which we will push to continue, and continue to pay off all of our debt, first with the last remnants of the disaster which Jered and Adriano were a part of.

Adriano, I would say it is time to chat on the phone about setting up a payment plan, esp. considering your job situation. Please email me the best number and time to reach you. I can't get you the total we owe you right now, and I can't even promise it will be quickly resolved in total, but I can begin to make some payments of some kind and begin to whittle away at it.

If anyone else would like to call and discuss anything in this thread feel free to call in and I will be happy to talk with you.

Sincerely,
John Paul Komasinski
President
KO Performance

PS - KO is based in Florida
PPS - I know that Jim Powel is a very smart man, but some would say that choosing sub-wholesalers or partners that won't lead to law suits, or "visits with two large friends" LOL, is a better skill to posses than knowledge of how to go after them after they screw you LOL... I'm hoping over the years to be better at the former than the latter.

jsp98m3

07-13-2007, 08:18 PM

PPS - I know that Jim Powel is a very smart man, but some would say that choosing sub-wholesalers or partners that won't lead to law suits, or "visits with two large friends" LOL, is a better skill to posses than knowledge of how to go after them after they screw you LOL... I'm hoping over the years to be better at the former than the latter.

LOL!

I agree 100%. You know, I am happy to see you have not left this. In my case, and maybe in yours. Maybe even in Jesse Mayors case, I don't know, its all about communication. When you are treading water, if you are talking, someone will usually toss you a lifeline.

I begged my retailer to tell me what was up. No talking. You know, I don't know if I got my money any quicker going to court over it. But I do know that they spent a good $500 more clearing it up than if they had just been open with me and gave me $5 a week until they dug themselves out of it.

I'm glad you are going to be ok. My personal advice, a long talk on the phone and whatever you can do on a regular basis, even if its $5-$10 per week or even per month. It lets them know they are on your list.

Goodluck man. The modding world is big enough for hundreds of retailers and I wish you well. Your customers too.

Jim