Every year, grassroots motorsports hosts a challenge, featuring autocross, drag, and concours competition, where the competitors build the best car they can for a total of $2006, all costs inclusive. As a result of the incredibly low budget, I'm looking for a donor or cheap (sub-1k) BMW to work on building up with a few friends. We're also looking for sponsorships for the project, as well as anyone else with some BMW know-how who would want to lend a hand. If you're interested, or have anything worthwhile, partswise or carwise, to offer, shoot me a PM, or reply here, and we'll work something out . Anything would be great!

~Ryan

I'm thinking of getting rid of my e21. I haven't even touched the thing in a couple months. I'd probably have to get it running again first though.

I'm thinking of getting rid of my e21. I haven't even touched the thing in a couple months. I'd probably have to get it running again first though.
How much? I have an E21 in my garage right now (not mine), and have kind of taken a liking to it.

Don't steal it Jesse :).

Don't steal it Jesse :).
OK I'll be fair, let me change my response to 2nd dibs.

OK I'll be fair, let me change my response to 2nd dibs.

Its cool, u've got a week or so to steal it from him now :stickoutt

damn too bad i have grown an attachment to my project e30. eitherway i will lend a helping hand in anyway possible if desired in between me buildin my turbo e30. also capitol auto auction on beech rd in temple hills md always have e30s for under 500 in need of some attention.. hell iv seen 750IL's go for 650

No BMW strikes me as a good GRM Challenge car..

i think a boosted 325IX would be sweet.. but hell it will cost more than $2006 jus to buy a useable stock 325ix

but hell it will cost more than $2006 jus to buy a useable stock 325ix
The exact reason why it is so hard to win.

No BMW strikes me as a good GRM Challenge car..

Exactly. There are better options out there with more potential than a BMW.

The exact reason why it is so hard to win.

Jess-

Finish up your car and sell it for a $1. We'll all chip in to buy it and RACE it.

We're also looking for a cheap MK2 VW, just something thats fairly light with a motor thats easy to work on (16v preferred). If we get a REALLY cheap car we can even swap a VR6 into it for fairly cheap, if the motor seems like its not worth the effort.

Take it from someone who has been, this competition is not about winning. You will have as much fun in a BMW that finishes 45th or worse (www.wreckracing.com / I'm the idiot hanging out the driver's window.) as you will in the V8/RX7 or Ford turbo 2.3 Midget that wins.

That said, you guys are exactly right... there is no BMW that stands a chance. Except ours. :stickoutt We'll be back with sway bars, fresh Hoosiers, and a turbo this year. :buttrock

Matt

Take it from someone who has been, this competition is not about winning. You will have as much fun in a BMW that finishes 45th or worse (www.wreckracing.com / I'm the idiot hanging out the driver's window.) as you will in the V8/RX7 or Ford turbo 2.3 Midget that wins.

That said, you guys are exactly right... there is no BMW that stands a chance. Except ours. :stickoutt We'll be back with sway bars, fresh Hoosiers, and a turbo this year. :buttrock

Matt
Nice...we've considered doing a volvo 740 turbo assembly on to the 2.0 16v motor, its supposed to be fairly easy. that would be awesome too.

3rd dibs on Hampton's e21... I'm tired of putting all the miles on the M3

I didn't realize there would be so much interest in my e21. You guys realize it doesn't even run right now right? I thought it was a bad fuel pump but now I think it might be something else. I doubt it's anything major but I just haven't bothered to put the time into it to figure it out. When it did run it burned a lot of oil and overheated if you weren't moving, but other than that it seemed fine. Probably needs new valve seals to keep it from burning so much oil. The overheating problem is because the aux fan isn't hooked up. At one point the car had AC, and it was taken out but the condenser is still there blocking airflow to the radiator. The aux fan is attached to the condenser. Wiring up the aux fan will cure the overheating problem, but you might also be able to get away with just removing the condenser. The PO put a good amount of work into it before I bought it, including new shocks, battery, and some other stuff. There's also some spare parts in the trunk. I haven't made up my mind if I want to sell it yet or not, but if I get a good offer it'll be pretty easy to part with.

Does it have a seat, or do I have to drive on a microwave?

4th dibs on the e21. I will give you 7 grand for it NOW!!!

Does it have a seat, or do I have to drive on a microwave? It has seats now. I actually paid more for the seats than the car. If you're serious about the $2006 challenge I can sell you the car and the seats separately and you can find a cheap seat to use at a junkyard or something.

4th dibs on the e21. I will give you 7 grand for it NOW!!! Sorry, the car is worth at least $12k. $15k if I get it running.

Didn't you pay like $200 for it?

Sorry, the car is worth at least $12k. $15k if I get it running.


:lol Just wanted to steal it from Jesse.....

Cars can be found cheap. You just need to be willing to prey on the weak and downtrodden.

I just bought an '86 325 with no motor for $200. The guy got fired from the shop he was storing it behind and had to get rid of the car ASAP, but he doesn't have a trailer and it doesn't run. :dunno

I also made a deal to buy an engine from a wrecked 325iC. The guy needs the car out of his back yard and doesn't have a hoist to pull the engine. :dunno

This is gonna be too fucking easy to swap, and I'll have a running car for under $500, with an i m20. That's where you want to start if you're looking for a challenge car.

Matt

No BMW strikes me as a good GRM Challenge car.. 1st place in 2002 was a 2002 http://www.mongrelmotorsports.homestead.com/chall.html

dont sell that shyte hampton. we need to roll to historic car meets together :(

Seriously tho, anyone want to buy a 2001 540i 6spd?:eek: :eek:

Seriously tho, anyone want to buy a 2001 540i 6spd?:eek: :eek:
That would be a great car. Sell it to us for $2006 and we'll be set.

That would be a great car. Sell it to us for $2006 and we'll be set. I'll sell the 540 to you for $2006 but you have to buy the cupholders for $20k. You still wouldn't win even with my 540. Or a mint GT3.

I see people buying project cars all the time. Most end up selling it to another person who thinks they will be able to fix the car. I knew the previous owner of the car wouldn't keep it very long, and I had a VERY strong feeling that you would never get the car running. :stickoutt

When it comes to old cars, you HAVE to expect to pull the car apart. There is no "I'll replace the plugs, wires, and dist. cap, rotor, and she will run like new." IMO (and I am right. :D), you HAVE to pull the engine out if the car has running issues (even if runs right, pulling it is still a good idea so you can change deteriorating parts). Replace it with a known running engine (replace all bad seals, clutch, water pump, timing belt/chain too) and then move on to the next major thing that needs changing; the exhaust. After that, the repairs are less time consuming/less expensive. Matt has the right idea.:buttrock

I would LOVE to participate in a challenge like this. Maybe one day. :)

...and then move on to the next major thing that needs changing; the exhaust... :buttrock

In your case that meant welding a big coffee can to the back right? :stickoutt

---Eric

In your case that meant welding a big coffee can to the back right? :stickoutt

---Eric

:lol :laugh.

Andy, I don't agree.

A college buddy bought a second gen RX-7 that didn't run a while back and we managed to get it running. It's not always easy, but checking things one step at a time is key.

In his case it went something like:

1. Does it crank over? Yes.
2. Does it have spark (and is it timed roughly correct)? Yes.
3. Does it have decent compression? Yes.
4. Is it flooded? No.
5. Does it have fuel pressure? No.
6. Is the fuel pump running? No.
7. Is +12V getting to the fuel pump? No.
7. If I unplug the fuel pump and apply +12V, does it work? Yes.
8. Is the EGI fuse blown? No.
9. Is there +12V at the fuel pump relay? Yes.
10. Is the relay bad? Yes.

We got the car running in two hours.

Pulling the engine doesn't really tell you anything about what's actually wrong. You're just replacing parts, blindly trying to solve the problem. Why pull a good engine to find out later you have a bad pressure regulator? Or a bad fuel pump? Or a distributor that's off 180 degrees? Etc etc.

JV

I'll TRY to keep this short since we could debate this to no end, and most likely we will both walk away with our current views. :dunno My take on old cars is not to just get them running. I re-read what I originally posted and I didn't elaborate on exactly why I felt that way. My goal is to make the car reliable. Getting the car to a running state doesn't really solve the longterm issues; reliability/cost of ownership.

Old cars are just that; old. The reason why they are worth very little is because they require parts to be replaced/refreshened and they are not as reliable because, and there's that word again, old. Seals leak, clutch, timing belts/chains generally needs replacing and rust damage needs to be fixed.

I have 3 experiences with old cars:

One was due a timing belt, water pump, clutch, axles, header downpipe, cam seal (as well as various other seals). The car ran fine, but it was to the point that the reliability was in question. That's why the previous owner sold it. Oh, one week before a driving event my radiator decided to crack. :buttrock

Next old car was due a timing belt, water pump, clutch but still ran fine. One day the rear coolant hose going to the heater core finally broke. After I pulled it out, it was obvious that it needed to be replaced. The car overheated without the driver knowing until possibly too late. He pulled over and was left stranded in a parking lot.:nono A few months later the engine blew (could this have contributed to the engine failure? I think it definitely contributed in some way :dunno)

3rd experience. Bought car with running issues. Needed spark plugs, wires, dist. cap, rotor, and O2 sensor replaced. Valve cover gasket was leaking slightly, clutch was showing signs for a replacement, slave cylinder was rusted a lot, power steering lines were forming SLOW leaks, and oil build-up was all over the engine (no signs of any major leaks and the reason why the interior cabin would smell of oil fumes while driving. :laugh) Who knows when the oil was last changed or when the tranny oil was replaced/topped off. Is it a good idea to fix/check all these issues and then find out exactly what's wrong with the engine? Some might say yes. I say NO!:nono Sounds to me like a GREAT candidate for an engine replacement, and I can change all the items I listed/clean electrical connections BEFORE the engine goes into the car. :buttrock

Oh, and here are a few more nice things I found when I pulled the engine! I pull the radiator out. Radiator fluid was FILTHY!! As I pull the radiator out, oooow, what's that? Nice rust damage near the radiator core support!:buttrock I pull the engine, what's that I see? Nice rust patch that needs fixing!:help The rust damage isn't too bad, but if it is left untreated it would, well, you know. ;) Also, ALL of the ground connections going to the engine/ chassis were corrodid or had tons of oil/corrosion on them.:eek: I found the hose going to the EGR valve was COMPLETELY dry-rotted with a nice sized hole in it.

Maybe all three of these cars were special cases, but I have a STRONG feeling majority of the older cars out there will have many of the issues I listed.

Now, back to our original question. Do you have to pull the engine to get it running? No. You are right about that. My response wasn't clear in my original reply. However, is it a good idea, especially if you plan to use it as a daily driver/have a car that is reliable? I would say, ABSOLUTELY! Others will disagree. I am fine with that. I just prefer to do it all at once the first time. It's cheaper and more reliable that way.

I hope this response is more clear now. :D

Yeah, a little bit more clear. The way I see it is this: If it's truly a project vehicle you're not planning on driving it for a while. If having the engine out makes it easier to work on the car then by all means, yank it.

However, I'd much rather get some metrics on the motor before blindly yanking it. Compression and leakdown will tell you 90% of the time what you're dealing with. Motor has to be in to do compression testing. Pulling the oil pan will get you another 5%, as you can check out the rod and main bearings and get a feel for the maintenance of the motor. It's easier to do a valve adjustment with the motor in. If all of those things check out and the motor looks like it's been maintained, I'd start catching up on the routine maintenance stuff (cooling system mainly, but also timing belt if it's a ricer engine) and move on to bigger and better things like making it faster and better handling.

Of course all of this is moot because if I get a project car it will more than likely be a rotary to but a bigger / badder rotary in, and that will require immediate engine removal ;)

Yeah, you are definitely more advanced at engine diagnosis compared to me. But I am learning. That's the whole point of what I am doing. :D

Yeah, you are definitely more advanced at engine diagnosis compared to me.

Nah, not really... I am just a hack mechanic at best.

FWIW I learned all I know from having a POS RX-7 that I replaced and rebuilt motors for and then learning how to get the thing to idle, pass emissions, etc... when the dealer had no clue. So the only way to learn, at least the only way *I* found I could learn was to take stuff apart and figure out what was wrong.

The winning cars at GRM all have 3 things in common:

1) They run well and have plenty of power. (You cannot win if you don't finish.)

2) They are driven by excellent drivers.

3) They are SORTED. They have been autocrossed for atleast the entire preceeding season and are as dialed in as possible.

If you get these 3 things together, even in a freaking e30... you have a shot.

As far as I know, no winning car has ever had less than a complete nut and bolt restoration.

Matt

If there is no MARB at the challenge, you will all get docked 10 RICH! :eek: points and forfeit your RACECAR cred for the next 2 HPDE Cup tournements.

Mtt

I'll lend a hand if you guy's need it.

How about this?

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2280692

If there is no MARB at the challenge, you will all get docked 10 RICH! :eek: points and forfeit your RACECAR cred for the next 2 HPDE Cup tournements.

Mtt
:lol

Scott

I'll lend a hand if you guy's need it.

How about this?

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2280692
If only it was $1500 less....

Bump.

You sissies found a car yet? I'll sell you one of mine, if you want...

Matt

Perhaps. No, we have no car yet. Jimmy and I are still trying to sort out our OT roadtrip :).

~Ryan

Do eet.

Matt

Do eet.

Matt

Getting a VW MKI GTI Rabbit, slapping a turbo on it. Everything for $600, turbo, FMIC, everything we'll need to get the turbo working. <3 College life hookups. We're going to be bringing it back up to VA in early May, so we'll have 4 months there to sort everything out. Who is interested in helping out on the project?

1. Dougmoney

I will help by continually bumping this thread and teasing you with my own progress.

Matt

I will help by continually bumping this thread and teasing you with my own progress.

Matt
I'd like to see your turnout, you guys have done it before though... :P

Twice before. I am going to take my new e30 just for fun next year, I think. Maybe. If I don't sell it by then.

Matt

I think you've had the same sig since I signed up for BFC.

Nah, I had my bike for a while in late 2005, but the bike is gone, so the band is back.

Matt

I will change my sig when you guys get a car.

Matt

Where in VA is this? My mechinical knowledge is limited but I could def. always serve as a helping hand.

I will change my sig when you guys get a car.

Oh God, not the "kill for this" thing again. :mad

Oh God, not the "kill for this" thing again. :mad
No, I'll change it to something new. I am even getting sick of this one.

Matt

I found this thead on page 3. :mad

Got a car yet?

Matt

I found this thead on page 3. :mad

Got a car yet?

Matt

Got a new sig yet?

You first...

Matt

Yeah we've got a car, going with a custom turbo install and NAWZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz

needs more funding at this point though.

You can have my Buick LeSabre for free!
http://bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=477379

You can have my Buick LeSabre for free!
http://bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=477379

Meh, don't need. Where in NOVA are you btw?

Pics or ban.

Matt

Meh, don't need. Where in NOVA are you btw?
Fairfax

Fairfax

Sweet, I'm in Springfield, we'll have to meet up when I get back from College (FSU).