Moderators, please move this thread if I posted in the wrong place. Thanks!

Okay here's a video we shot tonight. My friend's M3 (Dut from m3forum.net), other friends Evo 9 MR, versus my C55. We are for the most part completely stock performance-wise. We went at it a couple times and the C55 walks away. The race is pretty even until the very top end. Hopefully this ends all debate about which is faster.

EDIT: The EVO is in every race. It could not hang from a rolling start because the boost tapers off in high end.

My conclusion is that if the C55 gets a decent launch and doesn't fall behind too far then the C55 will walk away. Enjoy!

C55 vs M3 vs Evo 9 MR (RIGHT CLICK -- Save target as) (http://iiilgsrlll.com/video/c55_m3_evo9mr.wmv)

:confused Thats funny - If get a decent launch against a C55 , it has no chance, even from a roll. Maybe because im Euro spec? Good race nevertheless!

Damn our EPA cold start rules! I'm getting headers ASAP.

:confused Thats funny - If get a decent launch against a C55 , it has no chance, even from a roll. Maybe because im Euro spec? Good race nevertheless!

I like the vid! Good music, makes it seem professional.

Moderators, please move this thread if I posted in the wrong place. Thanks!

Okay here's a video we shot tonight. My friend's M3 (Dut from m3forum.net), other friends Evo 9 MR, versus my C55. We are for the most part completely stock performance-wise. We went at it a couple times and the C55 walks away. The race is pretty even until the very top end. Hopefully this ends all debate about which is faster.

EDIT: The EVO is in every race. It could not hang from a rolling start because the boost tapers off in high end.

My conclusion is that if the C55 gets a decent launch and doesn't fall behind too far then the C55 will walk away. Enjoy!

C55 vs M3 vs Evo 9 MR (RIGHT CLICK -- Save target as) (http://iiilgsrlll.com/video/c55_m3_evo9mr.wmv)

I didn't see any car 'walking away'....

I didn't see any car 'walking away'....

Then I guess you didn't see the C55's tail lights slowly separating from the m3 at the end of each race. :confused If we had kept going the gap would have been bigger but let's not kid ourselves it was pretty risky as-is at those speeds. I shut it down as soon as I passed his bumper.

Then I guess you didn't see the C55's tail lights slowly separating from the m3 at the end of each race. :confused If we had kept going the gap would have been bigger but let's not kid ourselves it was pretty risky as-is at those speeds. I shut it down as soon as I passed his bumper.

Well, I would actually take the professionals word as opposed to someone armed with nothing but a video camera and an ego that's at stake.

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=9846&page_number=6

I wasn't arguing that the C55 was not faster, it was simply not 'walking away'...if anything it was 'slowly pulling'.

Well, I would actually take the professionals word as opposed to someone armed with nothing but a video camera and an ego that's at stake.

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=9846&page_number=6

I wasn't arguing that the C55 was not faster, it was simply not 'walking away'...if anything it was 'slowly pulling'.

There were no egos involved here between the 3 of us. We are all friends and we have stock cars. We just wanted to see how they would perform, not a race for money or pride. It seems like the only egos involved here are the M3 owners who can't stand to see their pride and joy lose a race to a competitor. I don't mean to offend you or anyone who can accept facts but like it or not you'd have to admit that there some biased ass owners out there. Even Dut, the owner of the M3 in the video would agree. It was his idea to do this video to see what really happens.

I don't think you're one of those biased people since you brought up the article where the C55 beats the M3 0-120 by a good second so kudos to you.
You have to admit there are those who will debate that the magazines are BS. The video vs the magazine stats probably show how much better a skilled pro driver can get a car to perform versus us amateurs armed with a camera. :)

There were no egos involved here between the 3 of us. We are all friends and we have stock cars. We just wanted to see how they would perform, not a race for money or pride. It seems like the only egos involved here are the M3 owners who can't stand to see their pride and joy lose a race to a competitor. I don't mean to offend you or anyone who can accept facts but like it or not you'd have to admit that there some biased ass owners out there. Even Dut, the owner of the M3 in the video would agree. It was his idea to do this video to see what really happens.

I don't think you're one of those biased people since you brought up the article where the C55 beats the M3 0-120 by a good second so kudos to you.
You have to admit there are those who will debate that the magazines are BS. The video vs the magazine stats probably show how much better a skilled pro driver can get a car to perform versus us amateurs armed with a camera. :)

I'm biased, I'll admit that :D

and I appreciate your good nature and measured responses...shows your maturity. My only point in picking was the 'walking away', as that's so often used to indicate a 'punishment' or 'spanking' or 'beating', where the other car is left many car lenghts behind. My wifes in the market for a new car, and the C55 was on the short list, unfortuneately she's not big on the C class or any flavor. I have not had the opportunity to drive a c55 yet, but I'm looking for a good excuse.

Now if you want to see a benz that would 'walk, spank, AND punish' the M3...check this one out... (guess golf is paying pretty well!)

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/branature/detail?.dir=e0f7&.dnm=4d04.jpg&.src=ph

I'm biased, I'll admit that :D

and I appreciate your good nature and measured responses...shows your maturity. My only point in picking was the 'walking away', as that's so often used to indicate a 'punishment' or 'spanking' or 'beating', where the other car is left many car lenghts behind. My wifes in the market for a new car, and the C55 was on the short list, unfortuneately she's not big on the C class or any flavor. I have not had the opportunity to drive a c55 yet, but I'm looking for a good excuse.

Now if you want to see a benz that would 'walk, spank, AND punish' the M3...check this one out... (guess golf is paying pretty well!)

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/branature/detail?.dir=e0f7&.dnm=4d04.jpg&.src=ph

Likewise regarding keeping everything good natured. I have seen too many of these type of threads get nasty real quick. I guess it helps when there are no egos involved either. :D I didn't think "walking" was an indication of punishment. Slowly pulling away and walking would be the same thing in my book. When I think "walk" I associate that with "casual stroll". There was no running away, smoking, or spanking that's for sure.

Definitely do drive the C55 if you get a chance. The sound of a V8 will have you hooked. The test drive basically told me I wasn't getting another M3. You'd also be surprised by the way it handles. Why does Sergio Garcia need a CLK DTM? :shifty Oh wait...because he can. :lol

I love MB's-- I've never understood why they get constantly trashed in BMW boards. MB's *can* actually handle. Very well too.
They are wonderful cars. And aesthetically, I find them to be a notch above BMW-- well, 5 notches after Bangle...

Why can't they offer manual transmissions on all the sportier models? :mad

That M3 beat pretty good. I respect benz, but I personally don't like them:D

I didn't see any car 'walking away'....I agree but there is a difference between walking away and running away!I raced a E46 M3 with my W202 C55 and my car was not running away by any means.It was slowly but surely pulling away even though at high speeds he had the early jump.

:confused Thats funny - If get a decent launch against a C55 , it has no chance, even from a roll. Maybe because im Euro spec? Good race nevertheless!Well what's the diff between the US M3 and the Euro one?:dunno I understand that the HP measurement ratings are just different.Your car over here would be rated at similar whp to my understanding!

Why can't they offer manual transmissions on all the sportier models? :mad

Their target customer base aren't us younger guys who would like to have manual transmissions. :( On top of that, the 5spd AMG automatic trannies are very sturdy and can hold ~740 ft-lb of torque which I doubt their manual trannies can do. The newer 7-spd trannies can "only" handle ~500 ft-lbs.

I love MB's-- I've never understood why they get constantly trashed in BMW boards.

I guess it comes with the territory. :D

Well what's the diff between the US M3 and the Euro one?:dunno I understand that the HP measurement ratings are just different.Your car over here would be rated at similar whp to my understanding!

Nope - We have different emission laws. Therefore our exhaust systems arent as choked up as the US spec ones. It is actually 343hp v 333hp. Some other cars are like this too ( EVO, STi ) Dont know about dynoing the same. Id have to bring it to america because dyno dynamics read fairly low, so not a good comparision.

I'm too young to drive a benz but I did encounter a C55 AMG on the highway and he passed me so I put the hammer on it. I couldn't pull away from him and I was like WTF?? I backed off the accelerator and I saw the AMG badge. I was like c class comes in amg??

cool video thanks for posting. those c55s are beasts, and everything Merc makes has an AMG model now.

I couldn't pull away from him and I was like WTF?? I backed off the accelerator and I saw the AMG badge. I was like c class comes in amg??:evil2 Yes they do!!!

Nope - We have different emission laws. Therefore our exhaust systems arent as choked up as the US spec ones. It is actually 343hp v 333hp. Some other cars are like this too ( EVO, STi ) Dont know about dynoing the same. Id have to bring it to america because dyno dynamics read fairly low, so not a good comparision.So if this is tru 10bhp is the difference between beating a C55 or losing to one top end?:dunno

EVo and STi ,what are the differences between the US one and the Japanese one? I'm talking emissions wise that is The US Sti has the 2.5L motor vs the Japanese 2.0. Engine and emissions wise, what are the differences? I can't see how eliminating the cat could yield as much as 10 bhp on a N/A or F/I car.


From BMW registry:
How do the European-specification and North American-specification E39 M5s differ mechanically?Aside from minor mechanical differences required to meet specific safety and emission regulatons in each market (such as positioning the exhaust catalysts closer to the engine on North American-spec models), E39 M5 is essentially the same worldwide. One notable excpetion is the exclusion of the European-spec M5's two-piece front brake rotors on the North American model.

This creates very little if any hp difference.


I believe this goes for the E46 M3 as well!

So if this is tru 10bhp is the difference between beating a C55 or losing to one top end?:dunno

I can't see how eliminating the cat could yield as much as 10 bhp on a N/A or F/I car.




Carl,


The cat on a N/A car might not yield that much HP (though it can with a high compression motor like the M3) however it's a completely different story on turbocharged cars. The biggest single modification that you can do for a turbocharged car is the cat delete. Nobody on Honda-tech really believed me until I had a dynosheet to prove it. My other car (Integra GSR) was turbocharged before I got the C55 and my tuner was surprised himself. He asked me what I did to the car because I was already making 30 more hp at 6k rpm than the previous week. Only thing I did was delete the cat. The effect on the US spec STI's and EVO's are probably more pronounced as I think they run multiple cats.

2.0L 4 cylinders vs. 3.2L 6 cylinders vs. 5.5L 8 cylinders?

I guess the Evo MR is the better car........for your bucks!

Imagine an Evo MR with a 5.5L 8 cylinder engine!!!!!

Imagine an Evo MR with a 5.5L 8 cylinder engine!!!!!:confused I can't and I won't!

Carl,


The cat on a N/A car might not yield that much HP (though it can with a high compression motor like the M3) however it's a completely different story on turbocharged cars. The biggest single modification that you can do for a turbocharged car is the cat delete. Nobody on Honda-tech really believed me until I had a dynosheet to prove it. My other car (Integra GSR) was turbocharged before I got the C55 and my tuner was surprised himself. He asked me what I did to the car because I was already making 30 more hp at 6k rpm than the previous week. Only thing I did was delete the cat. The effect on the US spec STI's and EVO's are probably more pronounced as I think they run multiple cats.On the F/I car I can see it.But my point is that the hp ratings between the Euro E46M3 and the US E46M3 are at different ratings.Therefore I'm not seeing why in the past post the poster feels that the Euro M3's run away from C55's.Both cars, Euro and US have similar exhaust setups and slightly different emission controls. I can't see why our US M3's would be slower than the Euro one. This is'nt the E36.

On the F/I car I can see it.But my point is that the hp ratings between the Euro E46M3 and the US E46M3 are at different ratings.Therefore I'm not seeing why in the past post the poster feels that the Euro M3's run away from C55's.Both cars, Euro and US have similar exhaust setups and slightly different emission controls. I can't see why our US M3's would be slower than the Euro one. This is'nt the E36.

:confused Im not feeling that it runs away, Im saying I can beat them , well down here anyway. They're tuned differently as well for two different markets. The US M3 is rated at 333hp and the Euro at 343hp. Why else would BMW state a difference? There's also the different brake rotors as well ( not that has anything to do with the outcome of this race ). Hey doesnt matter if you dont think I can win against a C55 :)

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82408

:confused Im not feeling that it runs away, Im saying I can beat them , well down here anyway. They're tuned differently as well for two different markets. The US M3 is rated at 333hp and the Euro at 343hp. Why else would BMW state a difference? There's also the different brake rotors as well ( not that has anything to do with the outcome of this race ). Hey doesnt matter if you dont think I can win against a C55 :)

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82408Please bring it to the US.:devillook As a matter of fact have you dynoed your car as well?

Here is part II from last night. Let me warn you guys that this video is long AND has no music so please don't fall asleep. :sleeping: We had 2 cameras this time, one in each car, but Dut accidentally recorded over some of his footage. :shifty :nono :banghead: Hahah j/k. For some reason I was pretty paranoid last night so we didn't take it up to the speeds we did on the first vid. :devillook

In any case if I get enough complaints I'll spice it up some with more trance. :buttrock Enjoy.

http://iiilgsrlll.com/video/c55_m3.wmv (RIGHT CLICK--Save Target As) (http://iiilgsrlll.com/video/c55_m3.wmv)

Please bring it to the US.:devillook As a matter of fact have you dynoed your car as well?

Yeh I have. It reads 244rwhp - Much lower than what you guys seem to be getting. I have no mods either.

I think u can win, but it is hard to make up 2 more cyl. 33 more horses & 114 pds of torque.
Personally I've raced a CLS500 and totally left them behind but haven't run into C55 yet.

C55 is hawtness.

Yeh I have. It reads 244rwhp - Much lower than what you guys seem to be getting. I have no mods either.My E36 puts out higher rwhp than that.I'm surprised yours is so low.What dyno did you use?And you're beating C55's all over the place? Some dyno at 305rwhp and 315ftlbs TQ!

My E36 puts out higher rwhp than that.I'm surprised yours is so low.What dyno did you use?And you're beating C55's all over the place? Some dyno at 305rwhp and 315ftlbs TQ!

Dyno dynamics reads considerably lower than American Dynos. Im sure your E36 down here would read fairly low as well. I guess some things are just different in the US. Ive seen C55s only just break into the high 13s down here. The cars in america seem too quick. Maybe its the air? :confused

I guess some things are just different in the US. Ive seen C55s only just break into the high 13s down here. The cars in america seem too quick. Maybe its the air? :confusedNooo The cars in Europe seem too slow!:D Maybe it's the air.

P.S Im not in Europe :)

The european E46 M3 makes 343 DIN hp at the crank.

The US E46 M3 makes 333 SAE hp at the crank.

SAE and DIN are not the same measurement of horsepower. The difference in measurement accounts for about 5 hp of the difference.

The other 5 hp is an actual power deficit for the US cars, owing to US emissions and a somewhat strangled US-market exhaust mid-pipe that results in the famous raspy sound.

I also have a euro spec M3. My buddy has a C55 & an M3. I raced his 55 & a few other 55;s many times when I was stock. I beat them every single time. Even trap higher than them & slowly edge away on the highway until around 120mph. Then it evens out but NEVER at any stage does the 55 come back at me. The same with a few of my other buddy'y with stong stock M3. By strong I mean trapping 107-108, & dyno'ing 295-300RWHP.

nice race none the less!

Will the results be different with the stock rims? Maybe closer? Bigger fatter Wheels really dont help performance-wise. I know at the track or strip, stock rims/tires work better. Specially 18s!

Will the results be different with the stock rims? Maybe closer? Bigger fatter Wheels really dont help performance-wise. I know at the track or strip, stock rims/tires work better. Specially 18s!

Well you have to figure that the M3 does come with 19's as stocks but they're way heavier than HRE's. I don't think the HRE's would kill performance due to the lighter weight.

Well you have to figure that the M3 does come with 19's as stocks but they're way heavier than HRE's. I don't think the HRE's would kill performance due to the lighter weight.


Are the stocks really heavier? They're skinnier, single piece... If that's the case how about 18s?

Cool video! I've seen DUT's car, its amazing :eek: !
Very unbiased video and well executed. Good job and thanks for sharing!

Are the stocks really heavier? They're skinnier, single piece... If that's the case how about 18s?

It was stated on mbworld that the 540R's are 23-24 lb's. The stock wheel does not feel that light. Not even the 18's. Anyone have a scale to weigh? :D

For the guys who wonder how the small difference in power between Euro and US exhaust-equipped cars can make a difference, bear in mind that you are simply looking at the change at hp peak, not the difference under the curve throughout the rev range. After putting a complete euro exhaust on my last M3, I was very surprised at the change throughout the rpm range.

SDSilverM3:

How about asking your friend to run him again. But with 18s. JK... I had a run-in with a C55. With my 18s, I had a small lead, if not even with him all the way to 135ish. I just wondering if someone can actually confirm this result.

Moderators, please move this thread if I posted in the wrong place. Thanks!

Okay here's a video we shot tonight. My friend's M3 (Dut from m3forum.net), other friends Evo 9 MR, versus my C55. We are for the most part completely stock performance-wise. We went at it a couple times and the C55 walks away. The race is pretty even until the very top end. Hopefully this ends all debate about which is faster.

EDIT: The EVO is in every race. It could not hang from a rolling start because the boost tapers off in high end.

My conclusion is that if the C55 gets a decent launch and doesn't fall behind too far then the C55 will walk away. Enjoy!

C55 vs M3 vs Evo 9 MR (RIGHT CLICK -- Save target as) (http://iiilgsrlll.com/video/c55_m3_evo9mr.wmv)


hello. does this mean an '01 CLK55 would also slowly pull away from an E46 M3?

SDSilverM3:

How about asking your friend to run him again. But with 18s. JK... I had a run-in with a C55. With my 18s, I had a small lead, if not even with him all the way to 135ish. I just wondering if someone can actually confirm this result.

No more racing for me. :D His car is 99.9% sold so be on the look out for it in the Denver area.


hello. does this mean an '01 CLK55 would also slowly pull away from an E46 M3?

The 2 cars have the same motor but the '01 CLK55 had the 349hp version of it. Not sure what effects the loss of 13hp will do for you but it would be a close race.

If anyone is interested please reply to the following thread. Thanks.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=461506

Hey Ling,

That's a nice set-up you have there. Do you know if DUT's car was 6spd or SMG?


Allen

Hey Ling,

That's a nice set-up you have there. Do you know if DUT's car was 6spd or SMG?


Allen

Thanks man. Dut's car was a 6spd.

Is this THE Allen I know? Yellow IS/Blue m3?

Yup it's me, GO CHARGERS! Maybe next year, huh?

Wanna run?


Allen

Next year lol...maybe if Rivers can throw a spiral once in a while.

Sure..the Q this Saturday if it doesn't rain?

Nice video,good music,it really shows that there is no replacement for displacement.(at least in stock form)
But with a sohc 5.5L V8, I would expect the MB to be considerably faster than an M3(3.2L I6) at higher speeds, and with its major torque advantge i would think it would be even faster on the low end. How heavy is the C55 AMG?? Is there a big difference in weight between the e46 M3 and the C55??
I was happy to see that the M3 can still compete with an AMG, though not win.

Torque only gets you going and does nothing when you're already moving. That's when horsepower comes into play. The C55 is about 100 lbs heavier than an M3 so the 30hp advantage the C55 has is not much after considering the weight handicap.

The M3 and C55 are neck to neck in pretty much everything. That includes handling even though some M3 elitists would hate to admit it. The reason it is not considerably faster is because AMG is very conservative with their tuning. The M3 motor is pushing out every single HP it can. The C55's run very rich stock and can easily gain more HP by doing an ECU reflash (leaning out the A/F mixture). The next revision of the C55 motor will push out about 420hp to compete with the new V8 M3 so that should tell you that it's not even close to its max potential.

Sure..the Q this Saturday if it doesn't rain?

I'm down if it's in the morning.

Here's my attempt to attach a vid. It's a couple of years old but I ran a 6spd e46 M3. If you can open it, excuse the camera guy. He was a little nervous.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v260/MVEED3/?action=view&current=8ed546d6.flv


Allen

Hey Allen, it's actually tomorrow night. We're going at about 6pm so if you want to join us I'll be there with some other AMG guys.

I can see why the camera guy was nervous. He knew you were gonna lay the smack down on the E46 hahaha.

Hahaha.

I'll have to check you out tomorrow. PM'd you.


Allen

Great video e36 M vs e46 M!!!!
Nice win! :D

Those Schrick cams must help a ton because a stock E36 is almost a second slower than the E46 in a 1/4 mile race.

The 2 cars have the same motor but the '01 CLK55 had the 349hp version of it. Not sure what effects the loss of 13hp will do for you but it would be a close race.

The W208 CLK55 (2001-2002) actually has slightly less rated hp than that....342.

I raced my buddy's 05 c55 yesterday from 50-110mph and it was more of whoever got the jump first. My cars not completely stock though but just Dinan chip and exhaust. He did start to pull on me but VERY slowly.

Nope - We have different emission laws. Therefore our exhaust systems arent as choked up as the US spec ones. It is actually 343hp v 333hp. Some other cars are like this too ( EVO, STi ) Dont know about dynoing the same. Id have to bring it to america because dyno dynamics read fairly low, so not a good comparision.



hense my addition of a SuperSprint Race Exhaust...haha...