From Mike Mills:

BMW CCA Club Racing and the Club Racing Advisory Committee are developing a set of rules for the 2006 season, unfortunately they are not ready for publication yet. However, there is one change for 2006 we want to tell you about now so you can make appropriate plans, if necessary.

Effective April 1, 2006, all racers must use a Head and Neck Restraint meeting SFI 38.1 standards. As of December 1, 2005, the following devices have been approved under the SFI 38.1 standard:

HANS - (888) 426-7999 - www.hansdevice.com

R3 Device - (800) 731-4404 - www.lfttech.com

Hutchens II - (800) 731-4404 - www.hutchensdevice.com


BMW CCA Club Racing will be the first amateur road racing organization to mandate the use of these devices; we will not be the last. These devices are currently required for most, if not all, professional racing series in the country.

Remember our first concern is your safety.

Mike Mills
Acting Chairman
BMW CCA Club Racing


Reminder:
BMWCCA Club Racing Web site address: www.BMWCCAClubRacing.com

From Mike Mills:

BMW CCA Club Racing and the Club Racing Advisory Committee are developing a set of rules for the 2006 season, unfortunately they are not ready for publication yet. However, there is one change for 2006 we want to tell you about now so you can make appropriate plans, if necessary.

Effective April 1, 2006, all racers must use a Head and Neck Restraint meeting SFI 38.1 standards. As of December 1, 2005, the following devices have been approved under the SFI 38.1 standard:

HANS - (888) 426-7999 - www.hansdevice.com

R3 Device - (800) 731-4404 - www.lfttech.com

Hutchens II - (800) 731-4404 - www.hutchensdevice.com


BMW CCA Club Racing will be the first amateur road racing organization to mandate the use of these devices; we will not be the last. These devices are currently required for most, if not all, professional racing series in the country.

Remember our first concern is your safety.

Mike Mills
Acting Chairman
BMW CCA Club Racing


Reminder:
BMWCCA Club Racing Web site address: www.BMWCCAClubRacing.com

I think thats great. I was just copying and pasteing it, but you beat me to it.

Ah, beat me to it.....just gonna post it.

Personally, great move on behalf of the CR staff :alright
_Matt

good move, but will they fallow nasa's lead and allow other ones too like the issac (which supposedly would have passed except for 2 points of relase and the sfi mandates 1)?

good move, but will they fallow nasa's lead and allow other ones too like the issac (which supposedly would have passed except for 2 points of relase and the sfi mandates 1)?
Why can't/won't ISAAC comply?

they will comply but havent as of yet. nasa just madated the same thing but allow a few more including some that arent as pricey. i personaly use a hans and love it but im surprised there are so few allowed compared to nasa

they will comply but havent as of yet. nasa just madated the same thing but allow a few more including some that arent as pricey. i personaly use a hans and love it but im surprised there are so few allowed compared to nasa
It's simple: The folks at CR intelligently have chosen not to try to determine which devices are adequate themselves. There're liability concerns there if someone is injured while using a non-compliant device.

It's a liability thing. I hope the ISAAC folks will get the $$ together for SFI testing. Whether the way the test came about is fair or not, it has/will become the "standard". I really like the damper idea of the ISAAC system and would like to see it as an option for folks.

I think thats great. I was just copying and pasteing it, but you beat me to it.
and i already posted it to it.com...good news travels fast!

well reading further into im almost sure the issac will be cirtified from what i read on cornercarvers and not to sure if nasa is gonna use there old list of cirtified h&n devices

just saw the email too, way to go CR staff!!!

great idea... now it should be easier to convince my friends to get them.

Thats YOU david!:confused

great idea... now it should be easier to convince my friends to get them.

Thats YOU david!:confused

:confused i've been wearing one since my 2nd race...

i didnt get it in time for my comp school and rookie race :(

1) The ISAAC won't be certified unless the SFI changes the language in their "standard" (basically, because of the non-single release...two qr pins).

2) One more reason I won't be BMWCCA racing again...I applaud their decision to be safety minded...but...sucking the teet of SFI (a manufacturer's association for all intent and purposes) is not necessary.

The ISAAC meets or beats the HANS every step of the way...and...I like to make my own choices...in this case that unfortunately leads to not running BMWCCA. I truly hope SCCA doesn't follow this lead to the T.

Politics aside, and who makes what with whatever label aside, I applaud the decision.

This is a huge step forward in safety, and hopefully, we'll all work together to make the cars safer in other ways as well over time.

We will lose some racers, but on the other hand when the next car comes to an abupt stop, we won't wonder if the driver wouldn't have been better off with a H&N restraint.

That's one bit of wondering I think is well put behind us.

Alex Lipowich

There are custom seats available to accomodate the R3 by the way if anyone is interested.

2) One more reason I won't be BMWCCA racing again...I applaud their decision to be safety minded...but...sucking the teet of SFI (a manufacturer's association for all intent and purposes) is not necessary.

Think about what you are saying for a minute.

BMWCCA doesn't really have a choice. The insurance companies were eventually going to require H&N restraints...for that matter, they may have already required it of CCA. BMWCCA obviously doesn't have the staff or the $$ to pay an expert to determine which devices are safe or not. Using an industry "standard" is the only option that could possible please the lawyers and insurance companies.

I hate the way the SFI certification went down, but I can't blame BMWCCA for their choice. If SCCA had stepped up sooner with a list of their own approved devices, BMWCCA could have possibly followed that. Given a lack of any precedents in club racing, the SFI standard is the only means by which BMWCCA has to determine whether a particular H&N restraint is "safe" or not.

The ISAAC meets or beats the HANS every step of the way...and...I like to make my own choices...in this case that unfortunately leads to not running BMWCCA. I truly hope SCCA doesn't follow this lead to the T.

I'm a big fan of the idea of the ISAAC as well based on all of the things I've read and reasearched. That said, I've purchased a HANS because it's a device I know I can use from BMWCCA to Grand-Am and other series I'd like to try in the future. Baker, the ISAAC guy, is a smart dude...I know he doesn't like the politics of SFI, but I'm sure he can come up with a system to incorporate his dampers and pass the test. If you've ever tried to get out of the car in a hurry, the single-release idea makes a LOT of sense. I'd rather not be fiddling with 2 small pins that I can't see with gloved hands while flames are lapping at my legs.

Baker posted on cornercarvers that his device will comply with the regs so im pretty sure its not to far off

I truly hope he has it covered...

Baker posted on cornercarvers that his device will comply with the regs so im pretty sure its not to far off

Anyone have a link to this ISAAC thing?

Thanks - Jay

http://www.isaacdirect.com/

1) The ISAAC won't be certified unless the SFI changes the language in their "standard" (basically, because of the non-single release...two qr pins).

2) One more reason I won't be BMWCCA racing again...I applaud their decision to be safety minded...but...sucking the teet of SFI (a manufacturer's association for all intent and purposes) is not necessary.

The ISAAC meets or beats the HANS every step of the way...and...I like to make my own choices...in this case that unfortunately leads to not running BMWCCA. I truly hope SCCA doesn't follow this lead to the T.

Hoo-boy. Nice "the glass is half empty" attitude.

This decision, which I hinted at here a number of weeks ago, is to be commended, and is long overdue, IMO. I am glad that BMW CR is leading the charge, rather than being a me-too'er.

And, as I have said before, irrespective of SFI certifications et al, there is a reason that most of not all pro series mandate HANS.

http://www.isaacdirect.com/

tanks - jay

Has anyone ever heard of a group buy on HANS' before?? I am sure there is going to be a bum-rush to buy these things...

Has anyone ever heard of a group buy on HANS' before?? I am sure there is going to be a bum-rush to buy these things...

I don't believe HANS allows their distributors to sell at low cost. Some have done helmet/HANS deals or very small discounts.

Ah, beat me to it.....just gonna post it.

Personally, great move on behalf of the CR staff :alright
_Matt

If only my lap times were as fast as my post times...

I'm not gonna buy a HANS to race twice a year with BMWCCA when I use an ISAAC to race 15-20 times a year with SCCA.

BTW... I don't have an "attitude", I have an opinion, and it happens to disagree with your own...such is life.

Hoo-boy. Nice "the glass is half empty" attitude.

This decision, which I hinted at here a number of weeks ago, is to be commended, and is long overdue, IMO. I am glad that BMW CR is leading the charge, rather than being a me-too'er.

And, as I have said before, irrespective of SFI certifications et al, there is a reason that most of not all pro series mandate HANS.

I'm not gonna buy a HANS to race twice a year with BMWCCA when I use an ISAAC to race 15-20 times a year with SCCA.

BTW... I don't have an "attitude", I have an opinion, and it happens to disagree with your own...such is life.
Dude, go back and read what you wrote.

the one point of release is something that was mandated by nascar which is odd since you sill have a window net and possiable head nets now to go through. the move toward using sfi spec decvies is def gonna make gary baker figure something out or there goes prob half of of his business with nasa and bmwcca going with the sfi spec. anyone know the fia spec on things since the hans also is fia cirtified?

I'm not gonna buy a HANS to race twice a year with BMWCCA when I use an ISAAC to race 15-20 times a year with SCCA.

Since you see the new rule as a problem, how else would you propose that a total volunteer organization like BMWCCA go about choosing devices for it's rule outside of using the SFI spec?

Since you see the new rule as a problem, how else would you propose that a total volunteer organization like BMWCCA go about choosing devices for it's rule outside of using the SFI spec?

Well issac has published all there numbers published for the testing and passed pretty well only thing they didnt have was one point of release. Mabey considering that they can make an exception? I mean if fallowing sfi rules belts gotta go every 2 years but your allowed fia spec belts since the data is there to support the safety of it and it only failed a manufactures group testing isent it kinda the same thing?

I didn't propose BMWCCA do anything differently...I simply stated that it would preclude me from running with them.

Sorry my opinion rubs so many people the wrong way...but so be it.

Since you see the new rule as a problem, how else would you propose that a total volunteer organization like BMWCCA go about choosing devices for it's rule outside of using the SFI spec?

Done...Now what?

Dude, go back and read what you wrote.

Sorry to interrupt the pissing match with a slightly off topic question, but has anybody seen an Isaac Link model? At $300 it seems like an option for DE students wearing 4 point harnesses. The problem with the Isaac site is that they don't really show you how the thing hooks up. I assume it runs under the shoulder belts, but the photos are not very clear. Maybe I missed the instruction page?

Here's a pic of Link model: http://isaacdirect.com/images/Product/Link/SideView.jpg

The lower portion goes under the harness I believe.

Sorry to interrupt the pissing match with a slightly off topic question, but has anybody seen an Isaac Link model? At $300 it seems like an option for DE students wearing 4 point harnesses. The problem with the Isaac site is that they don't really show you how the thing hooks up. I assume it runs under the shoulder belts, but the photos are not very clear. Maybe I missed the instruction page?

Yes you did miss them :)

http://www.isaacdirect.com/html/OtherPages/Instructions.html

Apparently, a HANS/ISAAC comparison video has been posted on the ISAAC frontpage:

http://isaacdirect.com/images/Video/SFIBoth.mpg

FWIW

Apparently, a HANS/ISAAC comparison video has been posted on the ISAAC frontpage:

http://isaacdirect.com/images/Video/SFIBoth.mpg

FWIW


That video is ****....the straps arent even tight.:nono

according the baker they are as tight as they go, thing is on the test dummies everyone uses it doesnt allow compression like you get when u strap in and compress your skin

I'm just posting the link...Delphi Labs conducted the test (supposed to be to SFI "standards")...are you saying Delphi Labs rigged the tests? Whose results are we supposed to use/believe then???

BTW...I think the straps may be "giving" given the loads of the impact.

Engineers...???

That video is ****....the straps arent even tight.:nono

a quote from baker, he posted this on corner carvers in the nasa h&n thread

"The total time for the video is 200ms. The data acquisition system is shut down at around 120ms because everything is over.

Everyone thinks the belts are loose the first time they see one of these videos. In fact, they are very tight. Remember that a 180# body X 68Gs loads the belts to 12,240#. Six tons is going to bend everything out of shape."
__________________

My eyes arent lying, I can see how much movement there is......something isnt right there

That video is ****....the straps arent even tight.:nono

Sure they are. That's how much they stretch in a crash. In some instances, the shoulder straps even move through the buckle, even when doubled-back.

My eyes arent lying, I can see how much movement there is......something isnt right there

Matt...that's how much a body moves in a crash. Is this the first time you've seen a recording of the SFI test?

6 tons of force will do that to some nylon. ive seen some nasty oem belts after a crash

6 tons of force will do that to some nylon. ive seen some nasty oem belts after a crash

The belts actually melt as they are pulled through the buckle. :eek:

Yes you did miss them :)

http://www.isaacdirect.com/html/OtherPages/Instructions.htmlDOH! :brick:

The one link I didn't try was "Other Pages." Kind of a dumb name for a link with all the useful stuff.

The belts actually melt as they are pulled through the buckle. :eek:
damn i didnt know that

Based on the test results I've seen, I think the ISAAC is probably the best device on the market right now from a protecting your neck standpoint. I especially the way it can't come out from under the belts, helps a lot in side impacts, and keeps belts on your shoulders in side impacts. That said, I don't want to worry about finding two small pins in the event of a fire, etc. I've tried an ISAAC on and prefer the ease of getting out of the car with a HANS.

The belt issues don't seem to arise in single-seaters like F1 where the body is physically constrained from going sideways by the small cockpit.

I've tried an ISAAC on and prefer the ease of getting out of the car with a HANS.

How about putting the Isaac on, is it difficult trying to align the pins and the receivers by yourself, or does it require some assistance?

I agree 100% (with the partial text I've quoted), which is exactly why the new ruling upsets me.

Slightly related... How many racers are adding a side net to their set-ups over the winter?

brand/vendor/sources???

TIA

Based on the test results I've seen, I think the ISAAC is probably the best device on the market right now from a protecting your neck standpoint. I especially the way it can't come out from under the belts, helps a lot in side impacts, and keeps belts on your shoulders in side impacts.

Slightly related... How many racers are adding a side net to their set-ups over the winter?

brand/vendor/sources???

TIA


We were thinking about them for all 3 of our cars....

Matt...that's how much a body moves in a crash. Is this the first time you've seen a recording of the SFI test?

Yes, and although shocked at the amount of stretch in the belts I still think it might have been better to do the testing in atleast a racing shell. Any comments?

i will be adding a side net for sure in my car, hard to see a reason why not too. i think they wanted the test to be as general as possiable, hell some peoples seats might rip out in an impact like that so testing in a shell might not help all that much

side inside net is a good idea...I am thinking of one also...

How about putting the Isaac on, is it difficult trying to align the pins and the receivers by yourself, or does it require some assistance?Can anybody answer this one? It certainly seems a bit more tricky than a HANS. I wonder if the helmet receivers could be made more like the HANS tethers. Those aircraft-style pins are certainly secure, but blindly trying to line them up while wearing your helmet may be a royal PITA.

Can anybody answer this one? It certainly seems a bit more tricky than a HANS. I wonder if the helmet receivers could be made more like the HANS tethers. Those aircraft-style pins are certainly secure, but blindly trying to line them up while wearing your helmet may be a royal PITA.

How about trying to get them out in an emergency. Let's say your on fire, you get your belts undone, and are quickly being overwhelmed by smoke. You try to roll out of your car, and oops your still connected to your shoulder belts that are attached to your H&N device. It might be to late. The Hans may be a bit cumbersome to some people(I don't even notice it) But when you undo your belts your free from the seat & the belts, and can get out with the HANS still attached to your helmet. I'm sure the Isaac is a great safety device, But as Bryan said in it's current design(Isaac device), I'd rather have the HANS and know I can get out in a hurry. Just my .02cents

scott, as you noted Bryan covered the "getting out" topic already ... ... I don't want to worry about finding two small pins in the event of a fire, etc. I've tried an ISAAC on and prefer the ease of getting out of the car with a HANS.

But nobody has addressed how easy or difficult it is to put these things on by yourself (or while on fire ... :stickoutt ).

I've used a HANS device about as long as anybody in Club Racing due to GrandAm mandating them. Here are my observations from over 3 yrs of using it:

1) Entering/exiting the car is not an issue unless you already have to struggle to enter the car when your helmet is on. While you can get your helmet and the device hooked up while in the car, it's a LOT easier to do so prior to entering. This can be problematic if you have a long delay on the grid. You can pull the helmet up and nearly off your head for cooling IF your seating height allows it. This may preclude taller drivers from removing the helmet while seated.

2) Visibility is minimally restricted in the side-to-side area. Good mirrors that are properly located is essential. Initally you will find this to be annoying, but within a couple of sessions you'll find the adaptation to be quite easy.

3) Get the quick releases .... WELL worth the few extra dollars and a HUGE advantage if you must exit the car quickly. Make sure the disconnect straps are free of radio harnesses and/or shoulder harnesses so you can get to them in a hurry if you need to.

4) Practice getting out the car in a hurry ... strap in securely as you would race and then make at least three attempts to exit ASAP. It's well worth your while. It's too late to practice when you're on fire and nothing will go right for you if it's your first attempt at getting unlatched and unharnessed. Finding the releases in a car that might be upside down and on fire will not be an easy task if you haven't practiced finding and using them under less trying circumstances.

5) The dollars may be disconcerting at first, but how much is your life worth to you? You spent the money on the rollcage, the harnesses, the window net, the fire suit, the helmet, the gloves, the shoes and the fire system. Be damn glad the technology is there to expand your safety envelope.

We looked at this over a year ago. There were some supply issues at the time and it was questionable if a huge demand could have been met. Since that time production has ramped up. I applaud CR for stepping up and making these safety devices mandatory.

Maybe they should have a requirement during tech that after being fully "connected" you have to get out of the car under 10 seconds.

They do this in many different forms of motorsport. For FSAE its 5seconds, and that in a real cockpit with arm restraints and whatnot.

For the small chance that godforbid something happens, you don't want to be hung up by a stupid little strap. Its happened and caused injuries in some recent incidents.

Just another 2 penny opinion but I would rather buy an ISAAC than a HANS.

I personally feel the ISAAC is a superior product.

[ opinion worth even less than 2 cents begin ]

I also can't get over the politics of the SFI certification.

[ end opinion worth even less than 2 cents ]

I'm a fan of the Nerf Suit. Its a new product that was shown at some recent trade shows. Its a 8" thick suit you get into, and thier tests to show how it works were pretty cool. They just dropped this dude off a 3 story building, and he just kinda plopped on the pavement, it was sweet :)

I'm a big fan of the Nerf Suit! I'm having my custom tailored next week, pretty much just this guy with a Razor blade cuts your bodies profile into a block of nerf foam. Some duct tape to hold you in, and DONE!

I'm a fan of the Nerf Suit. Its a new product that was shown at some recent trade shows. Its a 8" thick suit you get into, and thier tests to show how it works were pretty cool. They just dropped this dude off a 3 story building, and he just kinda plopped on the pavement, it was pretty cool :)

I'm a big fan of the Nerf Suit!


Screw that......ever see the movie "demolition man"??? Thats where its at:ausw_6 :freak

HAHA, Thats what I was thinking about when I was typing the post. Big Nerf Suit, and a huge Foam explosion upon impact lol. That was the worst movie ever!

I've used a HANS device about as long as anybody in Club Racing due to GrandAm mandating them. Here are my observations from over 3 yrs of using it:

1) Entering/exiting the car is not an issue unless you already have to struggle to enter the car when your helmet is on. While you can get your helmet and the device hooked up while in the car, it's a LOT easier to do so prior to entering. This can be problematic if you have a long delay on the grid. You can pull the helmet up and nearly off your head for cooling IF your seating height allows it. This may preclude taller drivers from removing the helmet while seated.

2) Visibility is minimally restricted in the side-to-side area. Good mirrors that are properly located is essential. Initally you will find this to be annoying, but within a couple of sessions you'll find the adaptation to be quite easy.

3) Get the quick releases .... WELL worth the few extra dollars and a HUGE advantage if you must exit the car quickly. Make sure the disconnect straps are free of radio harnesses and/or shoulder harnesses so you can get to them in a hurry if you need to.

4) Practice getting out the car in a hurry ... strap in securely as you would race and then make at least three attempts to exit ASAP. It's well worth your while. It's too late to practice when you're on fire and nothing will go right for you if it's your first attempt at getting unlatched and unharnessed. Finding the releases in a car that might be upside down and on fire will not be an easy task if you haven't practiced finding and using them under less trying circumstances.

5) The dollars may be disconcerting at first, but how much is your life worth to you? You spent the money on the rollcage, the harnesses, the window net, the fire suit, the helmet, the gloves, the shoes and the fire system. Be damn glad the technology is there to expand your safety envelope.

We looked at this over a year ago. There were some supply issues at the time and it was questionable if a huge demand could have been met. Since that time production has ramped up. I applaud CR for stepping up and making these safety devices mandatory.

Ditto.

I've not worn any H&N device while driving yet. Thanks to this forum, I've just discovered the Isaac device. While I know it's not approved and has the issue of *not* having a quick release...the Isaac seems to make more sense in preventing the head to accumulate energy. In my mind, that is what we're after, right!
Also Bryan mentioned and I agree that the way that the Isaac device attaches, it appears to be very well suited for closed cockpit driving with no chance of the device slipping out from under the belts with a side impact.

I hope that the Isaac device certainly comes up with a "quick" release system as I believe this would be the device that I would want to purchase!

That said, how long would it take to get approval? Time is ticking and I've got to make a purchase!

Ken Arutunian

No amateur racing organization that doesn't have an engineering dept or the resources to pay to have equipment evaluated is going to stick their neck out and allow an unproven safety device. The potential liability is incredible.

Other than possibly SCCA, I don't think you'll find an amateur venue that has the resources to evaluate safety gear. That's why they all rely on SFI and/or FIA endorsement.

It's worth noting that GrandAm withdrew their approval of the Hutchen's device. Now that it's SFI certified, it'll be interesting to see if they put it back on the approved list. The Hutchen's device was changed fairly significantly to acquire SFI certification.

I wouldn't plan on waiting for SFI certification on the ISAAC device in 2006 unless you don't intend to race in at least the 1st half of the season, but that's only a wildass guess. They might get approval tomorrow and they might not get approval at all.