Have any of you test drove the new Infinity M45. It costs thousands less than a similar five series and performs just as good or better. I test drove it and I was very impressed

Have any of you test drove the new Infinity M45. It costs thousands less than a similar five series and performs just as good or better. I test drove it and I was very impressed
I havent driven the 45, but I've driven the M35, with the sport packaege and the 19" wheels, and I think on the street it might compare to a 5, but on the track it would be a different story.

iirc, business week had a short article on it recently, which basically said the m45 is what the e60 should've been.

the cfo at my company has an m45, i think they're pretty nice. never rode or drove one though.

They are alright, but when nissan changes cars every 3 years, good luck on the resale of your $55k car. Wait three years and buy it half price when everyone is jumping on the bandwagon to get the newest one. Infiniti/Nissan are making some awesome cars, just they have the worst resale ever it seems. I lost $9k on a private party sale in 8 months on a Murano.

motor trend still gave 1st place to 545 insteand of m45
however they are very nice cars and i bet they have less problems than bimmers
but the fact is that as far as prestige factor goes m45 is not up to par with bmw, audi and mb

german cars are just soo different from japanese

They are alright, but when nissan changes cars every 3 years, good luck on the resale of your $55k car. Wait three years and buy it half price when everyone is jumping on the bandwagon to get the newest one. Infiniti/Nissan are making some awesome cars, just they have the worst resale ever it seems. I lost $9k on a private party sale in 8 months on a Murano.
A seven series is even worst when comes to depreciation.

motor trend still gave 1st place to 545 insteand of m45
however they are very nice cars and i bet they have less problems than bimmers
but the fact is that as far as prestige factor goes m45 is not up to par with bmw, audi and mb

german cars are just soo different from japanese
Yea, but Car & Driver had it ahead of the 545.

Yea, but Car & Driver had it ahead of the 545.
so....buy one !
:lol

Let Infiniti make a $80k+ car and see where the depriciation is, if they can sell it. BTW, when was the last time you saw a new Q45 on the road?

so....buy one !
:lol


Exactly.

Exactly.

Then you haven't been out much. I've seen several of them around here & all of them were sold at the Infiniti dealership when I went test driving for a G35C. Unfortunately, at that same point in time there was a 545i, E500, and an Acura RL which were all traded for a M45 within a three week period. Not trying to sound rude or a jack@$$ or anything. My dad's partner had a 545i, drove the M45 and traded it in for the M When I spoke to him, he just said there were many things that the 545i lacked that the M45 didn't.

The only thing he says that he really misses is the good BMW service that he received from the dealership here in Atlanta, GA.

Damn nice cars. Very subtle, they have a sleeper element to them.

Let Infiniti make a $80k+ car

$80,000? :confused Where do you get that? The M is not even $50k and the Q is like $52k. The whole point of Infiniti's new line is to compete with BMW for literaly fractions of the cost.

I feel BMW should be suing Infiniti for ruining the M name.

Those M35/45s are really nice cars. I caught up to a debadged black one with rims and exhaust on the freeway the other day when I was driving the 540. I was just pacing him waiting to see what he would do. He noticed that too and backed down. Must have been the M35. :biglaughb

I feel BMW should be suing Infiniti for ruining the M name.

My thoughts exactly. Ho dare those bastards!!!!!!!!:mad

I drove one and it is a very nice car. Faster than you expect, and handled relatively well, but the interior styling was a little bland for my tastes.

so....buy one !
:lol
I promised myself that I will never buy a new car again--too much depreciation.

Then you haven't been out much. I've seen several of them around here & all of them were sold at the Infiniti dealership when I went test driving for a G35C. Unfortunately, at that same point in time there was a 545i, E500, and an Acura RL which were all traded for a M45 within a three week period. Not trying to sound rude or a jack@$$ or anything. My dad's partner had a 545i, drove the M45 and traded it in for the M When I spoke to him, he just said there were many things that the 545i lacked that the M45 didn't.

The only thing he says that he really misses is the good BMW service that he received from the dealership here in Atlanta, GA.
That is exactly my point. Just as Lexus took market share away from M-B, Infinity will do the same unless BMW reduces cost or adds more value.

Lexus makes a great product, Nissan on the other hand and in my opinion is cheap. The Infiniti line is a step up, but they lack quality. I owned a Nissan and I hated every minute of it.

The M45 looks good, I just will not buy Nissan ever again.


C. Chase
'91 M5

I don't think that the suspension of stock Japanese cars (i.e. Infiniti G35) even touches the suspension of stock European cars (i.e. all BMWs).

$55K for a Nissan? :lol Guess it's true.. a sucker is born every minute

I'd pay 45 and not a penny more.

Differences? I think it's more than just suspension... probably have to include chasis, powertrain, and probably more, depending on how well a job they did on the infinty m. I'll check it out at the LA auto show... anyone going?

I saw an M today...they look pretty sharp especially with the sport rims :cool

Go check out some Infinities and Lexus from oh... let's say anywhere from 1997-2001, LS 430, GS 400, IS300, I30, M30, Q45.

Look at how dated those "modern" designs look some 5-7 years down the road.

The same will be said for the current M45 in a few years.

m45 is very impressive. It will give the 5 series a run for its money and beat it imho

Hmm... the looks of it doesn't do anything for me. And yes, I'd be concerned about the poor resale value.

Hmm... the looks of it doesn't do anything for me. And yes, I'd be concerned about the poor resale value.

True. But as someone else stated, since it is much less expensive than the BMW equivalent, it will most likely take sales away from BMW.

I think on the street it might compare to a 5, but on the track it would be a different story..

Frankly, ever since we were bangelized, the BMW spirit has been shat upon. Since when do Nissan/Infiniti actually give a 5 series a run for its money - - let alone best it in auto mag tests? When I saw and read about the E60, I bought an E-39 which would never have been bested by a japanese slag.:mad

I should know, I drive a 95 maxima as my beater commuter.

I love my 540i, but let's face reality the Germans have great engineering but their cost structure is very high. Their wage rates are the highest in the automotive world and their productivity is much lower than other industrial nations like the US and Japan. The Lexus GS430, Infinity M45, and the Acura RL all offer a ton of value for the price. These brands have taken major market share from M-B and Audi and they have their sights on BMW...is it a matter of time before they surpass the Ultimate Driving Machine??

In terms of build quality, the German cars have a much heavier, more substanstial build quality (at least the bodies and suspension) than pretty much all Japanese brands. Take a look under any Japanese car, and note that the suspensions aren't nearly built as heavily or with as good of components as most German makes.

The Japanese build a very competent car, however what they are missing is personality and soul. They're too perfect. On the inside - Light steering, lots of noise and sound control, control and switchgear that looks like it came off a VCR, really plasticky interiors that look suspiciously close to their lesser economy models. As for exterior styling, they are typically trendy vehicles that have no previous lineage - they completly revamp every 4 years. Drivingwise, they're a great imitation of a drivers car- terrible driver feedback due to the excessive isolation. Braking - good luck finding a japanese car with brakes as good as their German counterparts.

Like I said, they're competent cars, reliable as the day is long, and generally hassle-free. It's just they're more like a transportation appliance than a car

rjp

I love my 540i, but let's face reality the Germans have great engineering but their cost structure is very high. Their wage rates are the highest in the automotive world and their productivity is much lower than other industrial nations like the US and Japan. The Lexus GS430, Infinity M45, and the Acura RL all offer a ton of value for the price. These brands have taken major market share from M-B and Audi and they have their sights on BMW...is it a matter of time before they surpass the Ultimate Driving Machine??

This, in reality, is due to low tariffs on Asian products and higher tariffs on European products.

This, in reality, is due to low tariffs on Asian products and higher tariffs on European products.

:confused


maybe the exchange rates has worked again german cars.. not tarriffs

The Luxury Jap cars were introduced with their eye on the Germans. After initial release they took a good share of the market. The germans countered and won back some of the losses. The Japanese are now coming with a new wave, Germany will lag and then surpass them again. The only problem here is Detroit never woke up. Lincoln, Chrysler and Caddy were once world beaters.

In terms of build quality, the German cars have a much heavier, more substanstial build quality (at least the bodies and suspension) than pretty much all Japanese brands. Take a look under any Japanese car, and note that the suspensions aren't nearly built as heavily or with as good of components as most German makes.

The Japanese build a very competent car, however what they are missing is personality and soul. They're too perfect. On the inside - Light steering, lots of noise and sound control, control and switchgear that looks like it came off a VCR, really plasticky interiors that look suspiciously close to their lesser economy models. As for exterior styling, they are typically trendy vehicles that have no previous lineage - they completly revamp every 4 years. Drivingwise, they're a great imitation of a drivers car- terrible driver feedback due to the excessive isolation. Braking - good luck finding a japanese car with brakes as good as their German counterparts.

Like I said, they're competent cars, reliable as the day is long, and generally hassle-free. It's just they're more like a transportation appliance than a car

rjp

go test drive an M45 Sport and then report back...:rolleyes

In terms of build quality, the German cars have a much heavier, more substanstial build quality (at least the bodies and suspension) than pretty much all Japanese brands. Take a look under any Japanese car, and note that the suspensions aren't nearly built as heavily or with as good of components as most German makes.

The Japanese build a very competent car, however what they are missing is personality and soul. They're too perfect. On the inside - Light steering, lots of noise and sound control, control and switchgear that looks like it came off a VCR, really plasticky interiors that look suspiciously close to their lesser economy models. As for exterior styling, they are typically trendy vehicles that have no previous lineage - they completly revamp every 4 years. Drivingwise, they're a great imitation of a drivers car- terrible driver feedback due to the excessive isolation. Braking - good luck finding a japanese car with brakes as good as their German counterparts.

Like I said, they're competent cars, reliable as the day is long, and generally hassle-free. It's just they're more like a transportation appliance than a car

rjp


I think this guy hit it right on the spot. Like I said earlier, I have driven an M35 sport, yes the 45 might have more power, but it still feels like the type of car described above. Cheap, and "feels" like it would out handle, brake and preform a german car... Get the two on a track, and see who wins.

Hmm... the looks of it doesn't do anything for me. And yes, I'd be concerned about the poor resale value.


That is an all wheel drive non sport model... the sport models with the bigger wheels look pretty good imo.

The Luxury Jap cars were introduced with their eye on the Germans. After initial release they took a good share of the market. The germans countered and won back some of the losses. The Japanese are now coming with a new wave, Germany will lag and then surpass them again. The only problem here is Detroit never woke up. Lincoln, Chrysler and Caddy were once world beaters.


You couldnt have said it any better.

infiniti is going to have less issues and probably better build quality...

but styling is HORRENDOUS. i confuse it many times with the G35.

They missed the mark on styling.

if a good reliable sedan is what you want and good value, M35/45 is for you.

the new 5 series, imho, BMW missed the mark with its crazy prices on it. its $8-9K more than the E39 with similar options...

i would never buy a NEW bmw ever again.

i like the E34 body the best :)

They are alright, but when nissan changes cars every 3 years, good luck on the resale of your $55k car. Wait three years and buy it half price when everyone is jumping on the bandwagon to get the newest one. Infiniti/Nissan are making some awesome cars, just they have the worst resale ever it seems. I lost $9k on a private party sale in 8 months on a Murano.

Actually, 50% depreciation in three years is pretty standard, and better than many. It is hard to compare the depreciation of a car to and SUV. SUV's are much more volatile lately.
I know BMW does well in this regard in general, but time well tell if the Bangle cars do so favorably. Lexus also does well, not sure about Infinity.
I havent driven a Japanese car that had the road feel of a German car. They do seem to be getting closer, though (ie G35).

Thatt's the thing, Lexus and BMW go a lot of years without many major redesigns. Nissan/Infiniti doesn't, that is why they have such low resale value, especially when they are going for trendy over what will stay contemporary for a long time. Look at that G35, it is on it's 3rd update in 3 years. The 2003, 2003.5 and now the 2005. The M45 made is a whole model year before being scrapped for something completely different. Nissan/Infiniti needs to design something that doesn't need updating every year and they may have something. The idea behind the resale is if a 5 year old car looks just as nice as the brand new one, it will bring much more money. If in 5 years there have been 4 model changes, that car is recognizeable as old. The Nissan/Infiniti cars perform well, are decently reliable, and best of all, have a good amount of aftermarket. I just don't see the point in loosing that much money on a car.

The Luxury Jap cars were introduced with their eye on the Germans. After initial release they took a good share of the market. The germans countered and won back some of the losses. The Japanese are now coming with a new wave, Germany will lag and then surpass them again. The only problem here is Detroit never woke up. Lincoln, Chrysler and Caddy were once world beaters.

well said

Thatt's the thing, Lexus and BMW go a lot of years without many major redesigns. Nissan/Infiniti doesn't, that is why they have such low resale value, especially when they are going for trendy over what will stay contemporary for a long time. Look at that G35, it is on it's 3rd update in 3 years. The 2003, 2003.5 and now the 2005. The Nissan/Infiniti cars perform well, are decently reliable, and best of all, have a good amount of aftermarket. I just don't see the point in loosing that much money on a car.
The G35 is actually rated near the top of it's class in projected resale value. The FX35 and FX45 fare similarly well. BMW and Mercedes still rule the luxury sedans though, with Lexus coming in strong.

:confused


maybe the exchange rates has worked again german cars.. not tarriffs

Eh...I'm pretty sure on this one...

Speaking of staying with the same body stye for extended duration, whjo remembers the old Volvos? The 240 series: 1975 to 1993 with basically the same interior and exterior (minus small updates) how's that for a run?
The 740's ran 1983 to 1992 and continued as the slightly updated 940 until 1996. Love them bricks!

tha car looks ugly, but it still looks better than the e60. E60 looks like a mix of a sports sedan and a family sedan with down syndrome

the germans are becoming like the americans where they are getting too pompus for their own good. Lexus and Infiniti is a wake up call but what did BMW do? NOTHING! At least MB is dedicated to building QUALITY cars again where they knew they shit the bed in the mid 90's to now. they took advantage that their "loyal" buyers would not leave them no matter what. guess what? they were wrong. they went Lexus. Now that Infiniti is coming out with competition for BMW, what did BMW do in return? iDrive (you crazy!). wtf kind of bullshit is that to come back wiht the Japanese? Germans SUCK in electronics so they decided to dump in more?!?! wtf is wrong with BMW?!?! is the E60 equipt with a plastic raditor as well?

German engineering is slipping. they USE to make good cars that didn't break down on you. what do we get now? yeah, i may be a bit bitter about the plastic radiator situation lately but i cannot deny how well the 540 handles however if the M45 does just as well, i'm going to ditch it. i haven't test drove it and i'm afraid to.

I'm driving the 190E Sportline right now. it's a quirky car. i'm often pondered what MB was thinking making the 190's until i took a turn. i can take the same turn in the 190 just as fast (if not faster) then the 540. i'm actually entertaining the idea of dumping a 3.2 AMG motor in there to give it the spunk it should have gotten from the get-go.

i digress however, if BMW thinks they have some of us secured because they use "better plastic", they must be on crack because unless they revert back to more conservative and less techno-mumbo-jumbo bullshit that they suck at, i'm NEVER getting another newer BMW. that and the fact that they DO NOT STAND BEHIND THEIR PRODUCT. MB has addressed their electrical problems to their owners and is taking steps to help resolve the issues. has BMW came out and said: yeah, we shit the bed on the radiators on ALL our product lines and we have a solution for those who experence this breakdown and are willing to replace it with a more reliable part. did they? nope! just dorpping the price of the radiator only proves that they just want more money. even a KIA wouldn't experience this kind of failure. that's embarrassing BMW.

I know this is a BMW forum, it still kinda surprise me the euro arrogance around here. Consumer rpt. rated the e39 really high... I believe higher than ANY bmw ever. Its still has some very minor weird electrical gadget quirks and annoyances.

Though bmw handling is the best bar none. The mean look & qualityfinish is nice... the cost of ownership makes it almost not worth it. I honestly think after this, my next few cars will japanese again as it will surpass euro & american cars in EVERY respect.

Eh...I'm pretty sure on this one...

your source of info? why would tariffs be higher?

Fact is, their successful X5 and many BMWs are not even made in Germany.

Take a look under any Japanese car, and note that the suspensions aren't nearly built as heavily or with as good of components as most German makes.



Find me a German car that doesn't need a new control arm, a replacement suspension component, or a complete rebuild by 75K miles and I can find you 10 Japanese cars with original suspension components and still ride brand new w/o a rebuild.

Find me a German car that doesn't need a new control arm, a replacement suspension component, or a complete rebuild by 75K miles and I can find you 10 Japanese cars with original suspension components and still ride brand new w/o a rebuild.
or a radiator or RTB or ripped strut tops or (i can't remember but Z3 rear whole frame??!??) or the radiator or clicking seats or doors that doesn't close when it's cold or the radiator or PLASTIC IMPELLERS.

or a radiator or RTB or ripped strut tops or (i can't remember but Z3 rear whole frame??!??) or the radiator or clicking seats or doors that doesn't close when it's cold or the radiator or PLASTIC IMPELLERS.

Windows :shifty

Find me a German car that doesn't need a new control arm, a replacement suspension component, or a complete rebuild by 75K miles and I can find you 10 Japanese cars with original suspension components and still ride brand new w/o a rebuild.

Well, this is a BMW forum -you have me there. As for the claims of suspension longetivity on a Japanse car, I disagree - they're not outstanding except for the fact that the bushings don't burn out - everything else, struts, ball joints, will fail earlier. My 2000 E46 needed the suspension bushings redone at 60K. My E39 is holding up just fine, as with the other 8 BMW's and Benz's I've been through - that's a qualified statement, they were all older than 94' models. Been 10 years since I had a BMW then I picked up an E46. None of those needed anything up till about 120K and my E30 went to 195K (I traded it) engine using less than a quart between oil changes and suspension still tight.

Take a snapshot of any japanese car underneath, and a comparable German model and see who's got the heavier built suspension. Also, a japanese car with decent brakes WILL cost you - not so with a German car. Japanese have tiny brakes for their size.

My point is, the Japanese cars are definitely more disposable in nature - I have a tendency to hold onto cars, so to me it matters a bit more. As of for burned out bushings, blown radiators - this is all news to me, but for soul in a car I can live with it.



rjp

You can buy a M45 sport nicely equipped for $50,000. A comparable equipped 545 will cost you much more. The I-Drive in the M45 is much easier to use than BMW’s version. The performance and handling are very, very close. So the driving dynamics are so close that the vast majority of consumers that can afford a $50k-$60k car would be had press to get the BMW.

Those of you that have not driven this car are making unfair judgments. Infinity, Acura, Lexus simply have much lower warranty costs and much higher worker productivity which all translates into lower prices for their customers. As for the so called “superior German engineering,” there is some truth that claim but it is not the whole truth. Honda makes the best engines in the world. Toyota has world class Lean Manufacturing that is the benchmark for all industrialize companies, and Infinity’s interior styling matches or exceeds that of Audi—the benchmark.

There were a few posts making very critical comments about the short product lifecycle of some Japanese brands. The reason the Japanese can come out with new models so quickly is because they have the processes and systems in place that will allow them to do so. The fact is that their new product development process is superior to the Germans. The BMW believes it takes up to seven years to develop and perfect a car. Lexus can do it in less that half that time and still produce a car that has higher quality ratings.

or a radiator or RTB or ripped strut tops or (i can't remember but Z3 rear whole frame??!??) or the radiator or clicking seats or doors that doesn't close when it's cold or the radiator or PLASTIC IMPELLERS.
This is due to the fact that BMW does not have a very good supplier quality control program. Lexus's quality program extends to their first, second, and third teir suppliers.

Well, this is a BMW forum -you have me there. As for the claims of suspension longetivity on a Japanse car, I disagree - they're not outstanding except for the fact that the bushings don't burn out - everything else, struts, ball joints, will fail earlier. My 2000 E46 needed the suspension bushings redone at 60K. My E39 is holding up just fine, as with the other 8 BMW's and Benz's I've been through - that's a qualified statement, they were all older than 94' models. Been 10 years since I had a BMW then I picked up an E46. None of those needed anything up till about 120K and my E30 went to 195K (I traded it) engine using less than a quart between oil changes and suspension still tight.

Take a snapshot of any japanese car underneath, and a comparable German model and see who's got the heavier built suspension. Also, a japanese car with decent brakes WILL cost you - not so with a German car. Japanese have tiny brakes for their size.

My point is, the Japanese cars are definitely more disposable in nature - I have a tendency to hold onto cars, so to me it matters a bit more. As of for burned out bushings, blown radiators - this is all news to me, but for soul in a car I can live with it.



rjp
Tiny brakes????

My O4 TL had Brembo brakes!

:confused


maybe the exchange rates has worked again german cars.. not tarriffs
Really, it is not exchange rates. These companies use financial instruments to hedge against exhange rate changes.

the germans are becoming like the americans where they are getting too pompus for their own good. Lexus and Infiniti is a wake up call but what did BMW do? NOTHING! At least MB is dedicated to building QUALITY cars again where they knew they shit the bed in the mid 90's to now. they took advantage that their "loyal" buyers would not leave them no matter what. guess what? they were wrong. they went Lexus. Now that Infiniti is coming out with competition for BMW, what did BMW do in return? iDrive (you crazy!). wtf kind of bullshit is that to come back wiht the Japanese? Germans SUCK in electronics so they decided to dump in more?!?! wtf is wrong with BMW?!?! is the E60 equipt with a plastic raditor as well?

German engineering is slipping. they USE to make good cars that didn't break down on you. what do we get now? yeah, i may be a bit bitter about the plastic radiator situation lately but i cannot deny how well the 540 handles however if the M45 does just as well, i'm going to ditch it. i haven't test drove it and i'm afraid to.

I'm driving the 190E Sportline right now. it's a quirky car. i'm often pondered what MB was thinking making the 190's until i took a turn. i can take the same turn in the 190 just as fast (if not faster) then the 540. i'm actually entertaining the idea of dumping a 3.2 AMG motor in there to give it the spunk it should have gotten from the get-go.

i digress however, if BMW thinks they have some of us secured because they use "better plastic", they must be on crack because unless they revert back to more conservative and less techno-mumbo-jumbo bullshit that they suck at, i'm NEVER getting another newer BMW. that and the fact that they DO NOT STAND BEHIND THEIR PRODUCT. MB has addressed their electrical problems to their owners and is taking steps to help resolve the issues. has BMW came out and said: yeah, we shit the bed on the radiators on ALL our product lines and we have a solution for those who experence this breakdown and are willing to replace it with a more reliable part. did they? nope! just dorpping the price of the radiator only proves that they just want more money. even a KIA wouldn't experience this kind of failure. that's embarrassing BMW.
Very good points--

Hmm... the looks of it doesn't do anything for me. And yes, I'd be concerned about the poor resale value.

Understand the concerns about bmw, but based on that photo you posted... I agree... I'd take the Bangle 5 over that poop-look infinity any day.