Did anyone ever come up with a budget brake upgrade for the e36 m3? I know there has been some post about using willwood calipers, e46 parts etc.

Also, save the "stock brakes are good enough" argument. I'm aware of that point of view.

Also, save the "stock brakes are good enough" argument. I'm aware of that point of view.

Uh oh, asking people to ignore rationality and logic in the track forum?

=)

One thing to keep in mind, you can probably sell your stock brakes to one of us non M owners for a decent amount to help offset the cost of upgrading yours.

Why don't you try a duct kit, ss lines, the right pads, and fluid first. You will need them anyways. I would start with those and then get a BBK. Budget and racing are mutually exclusive, whip out your wallet or change your style.

Your question should be in this form, "I have $XXXX whats the best braking I can get?"

Also, save the "stock brakes are good enough" argument. I'm aware of that point of view.

If you thought about it more, you'd probably realize that there is a reason many people say this. An optimized stock brake system with proper ducting, fluid, and pads is very competent.

Much more thought that goes into brake systems than just bigger calipers and rotors. There is a reason top brake kits (StopTech, Brembo, AP) cost a good deal more than piecing together your own system. I'd much rather stick with my stock system than going the Wilwood route- I'd save my money and put it towards a proper BBK.

Drive Safely,
Raza

1) Stoptech

2) Stock

Although I am a stock M3 brake fan to the end, I was surprised to see you could get a set of replacement HT-10 pads for UUC's new Wilwood-based BBK for a bit over $50!! Assuming performance is similar, those suckers might pay for themselves in a few years, depending on if they need annual rebuilds like my stockers (x 2 track cars in our household).

there is not point upgrading M3 brakes unless you go with stoptech, certain brembo (not all brembo's are good, many of the kits are junk) and ap racing's racing brakes, which isn't available in USA.

all others are just a waste of money.

there is not point upgrading M3 brakes unless you go with stoptech, certain brembo (not all brembo's are good, many of the kits are junk) and ap racing's racing brakes, which isn't available in USA.

all others are just a waste of money.

Performance Friction and others say hi...there are multiple brake calipers on the market that make a set of Stoptechs look like junk.

save the stock is good enough argument?

Uh oh, asking people to ignore rationality and logic in the track forum? =)

Exactly. Yeah what's up with that? Save your $ for tires, fuel, pads, SS lines, RBF600 fluid, and rotors. Brake less, you'll go faster. :eatpop:

If it's for a show car, then check out the new MBZ 8 pot's those are really something to hold and behold.

Upgrade to Euro floating rotors, do lines and ducting and call it a day.

there are multiple brake calipers on the market that make a set of Stoptechs look like junk.

For less money?

For less money?

Nope, but that doesn't seem to be the argument made by the poster I replied to.

Did anyone ever come up with a budget brake upgrade for the e36 m3? I know there has been some post about using willwood calipers, e46 parts etc.

Also, save the "stock brakes are good enough" argument. I'm aware of that point of view.

duh, bigger brakes make you stop faster. The more area you have for the pad and the more pistons you have definitely increase clamping power. Dont listen to these other track guys or professional racers, they have no clue.

While youre at it.. get some cross drilled rotors. Ferraris and Porsches have em, so theyre definitely good enough for our M3s. Look at the stopping distances THEY have....

Upgrade tires? blah. Tires have nothing to do with braking... braking is done by the pads and rotors, not tires .. DUH :rolleyes

:lol

lol.. especially when stock brakes have plenty of power to lock up the tires/engage abs :rolleyes

Is ducting track only? I heard if you tried to turn lock to lock on a stree tcar with hose ducting it'd rub bad is this true?

Is ducting track only? I heard if you tried to turn lock to lock on a stree tcar with hose ducting it'd rub bad is this true?

i dont see any reason for brake ducting on the street, so i guess its "track only"...lots of people remove the hose that goes from the fender liner to the backing plate for street use...

i can only turn my steering wheel 3/4 turn (from center) in either direction before my tires hit my brake duct hoses...

Gotcha, Ive heard of people removing the metal rotor plate protectors, is this a good or bad idea? My car is street/track son overhauling the whole suspension.

duh, bigger brakes make you stop faster. The more area you have for the pad and the more pistons you have definitely increase clamping power. Dont listen to these other track guys or professional racers, they have no clue.

While youre at it.. get some cross drilled rotors. Ferraris and Porsches have em, so theyre definitely good enough for our M3s. Look at the stopping distances THEY have....

Upgrade tires? blah. Tires have nothing to do with braking... braking is done by the pads and rotors, not tires .. DUH :rolleyes

:eatpop: too funny

:eatpop: too funny

what's so funny? after I installed the BBK, I noticed a HUGE improvement in stopping power. So much so that the stock seatbelts no longer did a good job of holding me.. so I read in OT and E36 M3 forums that I should invest in a 5/6 point harness. What harness do you guys recommend for a street car that sees some light race duty with a full cage?

I originally didnt want to get a BBK, but Im making TONS of power now and from what Ive read, more power means you need more braking.

Braking.. yea.... did I spell that right? or weight a min, is it breaking?

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . :lol

Gotcha, Ive heard of people removing the metal rotor plate protectors, is this a good or bad idea? My car is street/track son overhauling the whole suspension.the backing plates for the ducts cover the interior portion of the rotor where the cooling vanes begin, and so do the stock backing plates. I would think you would want to prevent getting lots of junk in there, as it might potentially clog the vanes. So if I were to remove the stock plate, I'd probably use a duct backing plate rather than nothing.

As dmwhite mentioned, you can't turn your wheel enough with ducting in place to make the car driveable on the street, so they are a track only device. Typically, there is a coupling at the fender liner, and the hose between the backing plate and the coupling is removed for street use, while the hose on the other side of the fender liner up to the front of the car remains in place. Go to the bimmerworld.com site for more info.

Gotcha, Ive heard of people removing the metal rotor plate protectors, is this a good or bad idea? My car is street/track son overhauling the whole suspension.

I'm sure there is some reason for it being there, otherwise the manufacturer wouldn't spend money on them, but for the life of me I can't figure out what that purpose is.

I took them off my datsun (not sure why anymore, but I did) and I never had any problems from the metal plates not being there (unless that's what caused my headgasket to break).

Performance Friction and others say hi...there are multiple brake calipers on the market that make a set of Stoptechs look like junk.

Funny tidbit: takea close look at pics of the PTG cars from the end of the last season...them brakes ain't PF's!

Although I am a stock M3 brake fan to the end, I was surprised to see you could get a set of replacement HT-10 pads for UUC's new Wilwood-based BBK for a bit over $50!! Assuming performance is similar, those suckers might pay for themselves in a few years, depending on if they need annual rebuilds like my stockers (x 2 track cars in our household).

I thought UUCs were SSBC, not Wilwood?

Funny tidbit: takea close look at pics of the PTG cars from the end of the last season...them brakes ain't PF's!

What were they? And could it have to do with the cars changing ownership and the new owners not wanting the cost of the new calipers or PTG not being allowed to give the calipers away due to a deal with PF?

I thought UUCs were SSBC, not Wilwood?Looks like they switched over to Willwood: http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/PBC/

..Skip the euro floaters not worth the extra money. I got tired of having the brakes go away, so I did the following..made a HUGE difference.

Made brake ducts that attach to the stock plastic ones, cut the stockers in half and put the adapter I made on, I actually thought about selling them it worked so well. Ran a 2.5 inch hose to the rotor, took my car to my buddies muffler shop and welded on a 3inch piece of pipe onto the strut with the pipe blowing into the rotor hat.

Put the brass bushings in the front calipers from Bimmerworld, new pads, fluid..

Made a huge improvemnt at the track. If I run 20 minutes hard they still smoke prettty badly after I am off the track. I have to go putt, putt around to cool them off :D

They never went away the last track weekend I did.

BUT I am getting a set of stoptech's before I ad any more power. They seem to be the best ones out there. I have a buddy with AP's he hate's them...

duh, bigger brakes make you stop faster. The more area you have for the pad and the more pistons you have definitely increase clamping power. Dont listen to these other track guys or professional racers, they have no clue.

While youre at it.. get some cross drilled rotors. Ferraris and Porsches have em, so theyre definitely good enough for our M3s. Look at the stopping distances THEY have....

Upgrade tires? blah. Tires have nothing to do with braking... braking is done by the pads and rotors, not tires .. DUH :rolleyes

Thanks for your useless input.

So I guess there are no budget upgrades for rotors/calipers. I'll get some stock m3 rotors and find wrecker for some used M calipers. This is going on a non-m with M knuckles

So is there a verdict out on the UUC kit with the Wilwood calipers on track that is??? If pads are really ~$50 for HT-10's, it may be worth looking into.

I would be willing to be the test dummy for some UUC brakes (hint hint Rob). I know how to abuse them on track. :D There are several local guys that would also be interested in driving the car with them I know.

I thought UUCs were SSBC, not Wilwood?

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/PBC

We're offering a new Wilwood-based kit for the E36 M3 now, specifically designed for track and race use.

Please take the opportunity to read through the web pages describing what we did with this system and for what reasons. I think you will find it an interesting read.

The concept is a "Performance" brake kit, not a "Big" brake kit. Yes, the rotors are indeed larger and thicker than the OE rotors on the M3, but of equal or greater importance is the improved pedal feel of the fixed caliper, the race-proven durability of the new forged Wilwood designs, the amazing weight loss off the front axle (>17lbs.), and the economy of replacement pads (usually $45-$65 for any track/race pad). All of this in a package that fits under OE M Contour 17x7.5 wheels without spacers!

It's priced right, too... at $1399 (which now includes replacement SS lines for all four wheels) for a system that is biased to work with the OE rears, a competitive cost analysis (http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/PBC/costs.htm) is quite an eye-opener.

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/PBC/images/E36_1_small.jpg

Looks pretty good Rob.

A new Fad in the aftermarket is OE two peice rotors. Pretty good idea, and its in many markets (MB, vw/audi, etc).
However, I still think the Biggest improvement in pedal feel is upgrading master cylinders.

Rob, did you guys see any difference in stopping distance with your wilwood kit?

Looks pretty good Rob.

A new Fad in the aftermarket is OE two peice rotors. Pretty good idea, and its in many markets (MB, vw/audi, etc).

We're considering offering something like that as well. At the very least, it saves a couple of pounds off the corners of the car.

However, I still think the Biggest improvement in pedal feel is upgrading master cylinders.

Not really so necessary in the M3, and not easily done... some aftermarket racing parts may affect ABS if done improperly.

Rob, did you guys see any difference in stopping distance with your wilwood kit?

A number of features of the basic caliper design and our bias setup have resulted in better modulation and control, including offsetting the engagement of ABS - basically being able to ride that pre-ABS "sweet spot" of brake performance more easily. With all other factors such as weight, suspension, tires, and pad compounds being equal, we did see an improvement... but more important than just "stomp on it and stop" performance, we see an improvement in the ability of the driver to fine-control the system.

- Rob

Blah, who needs ABS anyways, just slows ya down ;)

Once you get used to not having the street ABS, you can be faster without it in my opinion.

Looks good, keep us posted on the developments!