I'd like to start off by saying, that if there is any other car on the street that I respect, it is this one. The E46 can outrun, outhandle, and virtually outdue almost every car I've raced. The other cool thing is, I've only met one E46 that wouldn't race.
Anyway, my friend and I are out looking for races on the backroads in Aliso Viejo, CA, and this E46 Convertible comes flyin' up right next to us. I punch it a couple of times with him in third, and then we come to a light. There was a car in front of me in my lane so I pulled in behind him. The light turns green and we both punch it. We quickly passed the traffic to the left, so I changed lanes and passed by him in second gear. We went up to about 100 or so and I had him by 2 cls. We came to another light and he looked over and then turned to go home.
This is in a modded GTI with a fairly large turbo at 24 psi and 95 Oct, front mount, 3" piping, LSD, and about 300 lbs taken out.

I was about to call BS until you said this:

This is in a modded GTI with a fairly large turbo at 24 psi and 95 Oct, front mount, 3" piping, LSD, and about 300 lbs taken out.

Nice kill!

The outcome may have been different if it was a coupe... verts are PIGS!

This was the only soft top I've raced. Beaten several couples.

How much FWHP are you putting down?

How did you shave so much weight? No rear seats? :D

Good run man.

My question is where do you get 95 octane gas in Orange County?

I'd like to start off by saying, that if there is any other car on the street that I respect, it is this one. The E46 can outrun, outhandle, and virtually outdue almost every car I've raced. The other cool thing is, I've only met one E46 that wouldn't race.
Anyway, my friend and I are out looking for races on the backroads in Aliso Viejo, CA, and this E46 Convertible comes flyin' up right next to us. I punch it a couple of times with him in third, and then we come to a light. There was a car in front of me in my lane so I pulled in behind him. The light turns green and we both punch it. We quickly passed the traffic to the left, so I changed lanes and passed by him in second gear. We went up to about 100 or so and I had him by 2 cls. We came to another light and he looked over and then turned to go home.
This is in a modded GTI with a fairly large turbo at 24 psi and 95 Oct, front mount, 3" piping, LSD, and about 300 lbs taken out.



24 psi on a 1.8T?
How many kills do you expect to make before you smoke that little engine?
What is the stock turbo psi?

How much FWHP are you putting down?

I wanna know too!!!

I wanna know too!!!

With a GT2871R on 95, anywhere from 300 to 350whp
A well tuned one will get you upper 300s.

With a GT2871R on 95, anywhere from 300 to 350whp
A well tuned one will get you upper 300s.
but how long will it last? had a jetta 1.8T it was far from reliable.

either way, nice kill. the e46 m3 is a nice cruiser and track car but it's not game for the true monsters of the street.

Good kill. :buttrock

1) You can't get 95 anywhere that I know of, it was a mix of 100 and 91.
2) I rarely run the car at 24 psi, I only upped it for that night of racing. I expect the engine to last to about 100k miles.
3) I am putting down right around what 18bora said, 300-350 whp depending on boost and fuel.

Thanks for the responses. I only put this post on here to respond to MRoady's post about the VR6. Long live BMW. Great cars.

I only put this post on here to respond to MRoady's post about the VR6.Jetta 1.8 owners around the globe are grateful I'm sure. Represent. :laugh

Why don't people modify the 1.8T Beetle? A "Harvest Moon Beige" Beetle with 300 whp would be a nasty little sleeper. :stickoutt

Why don't people modify the 1.8T Beetle? A "Harvest Moon Beige" Beetle with 300 whp would be a nasty little sleeper. :stickoutt
:lol :lol

Why don't people modify the 1.8T Beetle? A "Harvest Moon Beige" Beetle with 300 whp would be a nasty little sleeper. :stickoutt
Like this :devillook
http://forum.vwsport.com/pics/data/3022/medium/steve_032.jpg
http://forum.vwsport.com/pics/data/3022/medium/steve_030.jpg

I only put this post on here to respond to MRoady's post about the VR6.
That's weak, but nice kill.

My question is where do you get 95 octane gas in Orange County?

Don't know about 95 octane, but you can get 100 octane unleaded VP race gas from the pump at the car wash at Beach Blvd. and Garfield in Huntington Beach.

yessssssss. a killing VW machine! too bad its not summer otherwise i might have a couple of more kills, haha

Big freakin deal: another 1.8t with bolt-ons that beats e46 M3's.
What else is new?
(And you only beat him by 2 car lengths up to 100?)
Is your GTI automatic or something?
(Oh wait, there's a couple automatic GTI and Jetta 1.8t's with bolt-ons that run low 12's/high 11's now)
A 1.8t with bolt-ons is definately nothing to sneeze at, especially when running against unsuspecting e46 M3 owners.
I've seen it myself a couple times.
And yes, one of the e46 M3 owners acted just like the Mustang owner a couple of threads down.........

Any turbo car with a few bolt ons can get out of its own way. Turbo upgrades aren't considered bolt ons, yea that "bolt on", but thats a fairly large modification. Try beating a E46 M3 or a full bolt-on E36 m3 with a stock turbo. Not going happen.. U beat a stock E46 m3 convert. with a heavily modded turbo car, that is gutted if u say u dropped 300lbs out of it. Very not inpresssive.

Big freakin deal: another 1.8t with bolt-ons that beats e46 M3's.
What else is new?
(And you only beat him by 2 car lengths up to 100?)
Is your GTI automatic or something?
(Oh wait, there's a couple automatic GTI and Jetta 1.8t's with bolt-ons that run low 12's/high 11's now)
A 1.8t with bolt-ons is definately nothing to sneeze at, especially when running against unsuspecting e46 M3 owners.
I've seen it myself a couple times.
And yes, one of the e46 M3 owners acted just like the Mustang owner a couple of threads down.........
I thought a turbo was considered more then a bolton. Or am I wrong?

Pretty good race man, I have always like VW's, before I purchased my car I was considering a R32, but I decided to go with the 330ci instead, I can't imagine owning an E46 M and getting beat...but there is always someone out there faster than you, that's for sure!

I thought a turbo was considered more then a bolton. Or am I wrong?
The 1.8t comes with a Turbo, but it's replaced by a larger Turbo that's bolted on.
What is meant by "bolt-on" is anything that can be "bolted on" to the engine without opening it up (stock pistons, rods, crank, headwork, compression, etc).

d993
It's not that hard to lose 300 lbs out of a 1.8T. The back seats and spare tire alone weigh about 130lbs. In either case, I have beaten plenty of cars with just bolt ons, no internal mods. Yes, a turbo technically is a bolt on affair. In either case, I find it entertaining to beat on $50,000 plus cars with a car that has around $30 k total invested. I only shoot for drivers that are cocky...more fun.

nice kill, my last car was a 2001 JTI for those who know what that is. there quick and fun and i put down more fwhp in the jti (237rwhp) with just some bolts on's and a chip, exhaust, downpip, k04, etc. (plus it all only cost 5k). Then i do in the m3 (211rwhp).

But an m3 is a hell of a lot more fun to drive the a vw was anyday.

Big freakin deal: another 1.8t with bolt-ons that beats e46 M3's.
What else is new?
(And you only beat him by 2 car lengths up to 100?)
Is your GTI automatic or something?
(Oh wait, there's a couple automatic GTI and Jetta 1.8t's with bolt-ons that run low 12's/high 11's now)
A 1.8t with bolt-ons is definately nothing to sneeze at, especially when running against unsuspecting e46 M3 owners.
I've seen it myself a couple times.
And yes, one of the e46 M3 owners acted just like the Mustang owner a couple of threads down.........

I knew somebody would come on here like this right after I read the first post :rolleyes



Nice kill, and sweet Vdub

d993
It's not that hard to lose 300 lbs out of a 1.8T. The back seats and spare tire alone weigh about 130lbs. In either case, I have beaten plenty of cars with just bolt ons, no internal mods. Yes, a turbo technically is a bolt on affair. In either case, I find it entertaining to beat on $50,000 plus cars with a car that has around $30 k total invested. I only shoot for drivers that are cocky...more fun.

Come find me, my friend has a heavily modded jetta 1.8t, and a walk on him all day, its so much fun

Nice Kill:D

well to get technical, i had an 03 GTI before my jetta now. and it was chipped, custom turbo back made by me and my dad, yadda yadda. for about 5k i could have well around 300whp. there is a local guy who was last dynod at 312 at the wheels (sad to say front) here in MN. and he can turn his boost up even more. its loud as all get up, and sounds puurdy.

i will admit also, that my jetta now is under 10k and it should run in the 13's since it IS a VR6. here is a link to an all motor VR6 GTI. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2211505

Nice kill man. I wish I was on the wst coast so I can hand your VW to you :D. Good luck in the future!

24 psi on a 1.8T?
How many kills do you expect to make before you smoke that little engine?
What is the stock turbo psi?
Stock PSI is only 11.5psi for an 04, but the stock K03 turbo is VERY detuned at .8 Bar (11.5 psi) - it is very capable up to 1.5 Bar. A simple chip tune will give you 35-55 whp without ANY other bolt-ons or mods; it 'wrings out' the stock turbo up to about 1-1.2Bar (14.7-17psi).

VW's after 2001 are known for being able to handle 30psi easily without pulling off the head... and at 5V per cylinder they do it with style. They get pretty 'spunky' once you start doing custom turbo upgrades like this guy has....it might be a "little" engine, but remember it's still German guts, and the same engine as an Audi A4... :D

I'd like to start off by saying, that if there is any other car on the street that I respect, it is this one. The E46 can outrun, outhandle, and virtually outdue almost every car I've raced. The other cool thing is, I've only met one E46 that wouldn't race.
Anyway, my friend and I are out looking for races on the backroads in Aliso Viejo, CA, and this E46 Convertible comes flyin' up right next to us. I punch it a couple of times with him in third, and then we come to a light. There was a car in front of me in my lane so I pulled in behind him. The light turns green and we both punch it. We quickly passed the traffic to the left, so I changed lanes and passed by him in second gear. We went up to about 100 or so and I had him by 2 cls. We came to another light and he looked over and then turned to go home.
This is in a modded GTI with a fairly large turbo at 24 psi and 95 Oct, front mount, 3" piping, LSD, and about 300 lbs taken out.
Do you run a kit or was it a pure custom job? I know the APR kit runs almost 400whp with 100 octane; 340whp with 93 pump fuel. And that's only a $5k kit!

Give it a few more run and it will be in the shop for good. Kill is a kill.

I only shoot for drivers that are cocky...more fun.
I totally agree with you. Thats the rule I try to live by.
As far as your Sig though, you make yourself sound cocky. You will end up running agaisnt an E46 M3 thats boosted and its going to kill your ego. What will you do next? Your 4 banger is only reliable with that much HP to a certain degree and then kaboooom

d993
It's not that hard to lose 300 lbs out of a 1.8T. The back seats and spare tire alone weigh about 130lbs. In either case, I have beaten plenty of cars with just bolt ons, no internal mods. Yes, a turbo technically is a bolt on affair. In either case, I find it entertaining to beat on $50,000 plus cars with a car that has around $30 k total invested. I only shoot for drivers that are cocky...more fun.


If that guy knew what he was doing, he would have dumped that money into an e36 M3 and stomped on you.

If that guy knew what he was doing, he would have dumped that money into an e36 M3 and stomped on you.
What $?
Stomped on what?
You trying to say it costs the same to turbocharge a e36 M3 vs a turbo upgrade on a 1.8t?
You're a funny guy.
$3400 will get you 400whp and 380wtq on a 1.8t. BOLT-ON.
On a 2900lb GTI or A4 1.8t FWD, that means leaving the new V10 M5 and V10 M6 in the dust from a 60mph roll.
Ever heard of ATP?
You'll need at least double the $ to get that from a e36 M3. Plus you have to take the engine apart, upgrade this and that and this and that.........
Sure the e36 motor has more potential IF YOU BUILD IT UP. Of course, it's a 3.2 liter vs a 1.8 liter. Almost double the size.

I totally agree with you. Thats the rule I try to live by.
As far as your Sig though, you make yourself sound cocky. You will end up running agaisnt an E46 M3 thats boosted and its going to kill your ego. What will you do next? Your 4 banger is only reliable with that much HP to a certain degree and then kaboooom
You mean like the guy with the SC'ed and nitrous'd e46 M3 that puts out over 500 whp but only runs a 12.2 @ 117?
I've seen a GTI 1.8t run a 12.2 @ 121 with a bolt-on turbo kit from ATP. And it made 384 REAL whp.
Hmmm.........what do those traps speeds tell you about who's faster on the highway?

What $?
Stomped on what?
You trying to say it costs the same to turbocharge a e36 M3 vs a turbo upgrade on a 1.8t?
You're a funny guy.
$3400 will get you 400whp and 380wtq on a 1.8t. BOLT-ON.
On a 2900lb GTI or A4 1.8t FWD, that means leaving the new V10 M5 and V10 M6 in the dust from a 60mph roll.
Ever heard of ATP?
You'll need at least double the $ to get that from a e36 M3. Plus you have to take the engine apart, upgrade this and that and this and that.........
Sure the e36 motor has more potential IF YOU BUILD IT UP. Of course, it's a 3.2 liter vs a 1.8 liter. Almost double the size.


If the guy in the e46 M3 had spent the 50,000$ on an e36 M3. And modded it, he would probably stompped on this dudes' 30,000$ (invested) volkswagon.

Its a figure of speech.
A joke.
haha

I love that video of the V10 M6 beating the crap out of the 996 Twin Turbo. Anyway, yes it is way easier to boost the crap out of my car verses an M3 of any year. The 1.8T has forged pistons stock and a 9.5:1 CR. I purchased exactly what 993 said, an ATP kit for the turbo, and a few other various manufacturers for the piping, LSD, clutch, injectors, etc...
My car is by no means maxed out on power, and I am not running it at the limits. I do beat the crap out of it, but it can definitely handle 24 psi on 93 or so oct. I still have room for alcohol/water injection and/or a nitrous fogger kit, larger intake plenum, tubular exhaust man., etc. So to those who say this car is pushed to far, you are wrong.
Good news, I just bought an Odyssey PC680T battery weighing 15 lbs for under $100, saving me another 21 lbs. I would definitely recommend it.
***To those who want to race, by all means contact me and I would love to arrange it. I love racing win or lose.***

You mean like the guy with the SC'ed and nitrous'd e46 M3 that puts out over 500 whp but only runs a 12.2 @ 117?
I've seen a GTI 1.8t run a 12.2 @ 121 with a bolt-on turbo kit from ATP. And it made 384 REAL whp.
Hmmm.........what do those traps speeds tell you about who's faster on the highway?
I'd like to know more about this e46 m3 that has 500 whp that only runs 12s. sounds like the power figure is bs or the owner can't drive for his/her life.

a bone stock e46 m3 can break high 12s - BONE STOCK!

I'd like to know more about this e46 m3 that has 500 whp that only runs 12s. sounds like the power figure is bs or the owner can't drive for his/her life.

a bone stock e46 m3 can break high 12s - BONE STOCK!
I think it's only in the 12s because it's SMG and there is no high rpm launch. I'd say the trap is accurate since we're talking about a 3300-3400 lb car. Also, the guy who broke 12s with a stock M had his seats removed and possibly drag radials. Not sure though.

actually, I was referring to a true manual gearbox, not the smg. the manual is faster in a drag race, there is a vid of the run some where on this forum. .

actually, I was referring to a true manual gearbox, not the smg. the manual is faster in a drag race, there is a vid of the run some where on this forum. .
Wait, I didn't think anyone had over 500whp in a 6 speed yet. There's only one E46 M3 that I've heard of with over 500whp (with the help of nitrous), and it's SMG. The guy who pulled the 12's in a somewhat stock car was a manual though, but he launches around 6k...

Do you run a kit or was it a pure custom job? I know the APR kit runs almost 400whp with 100 octane; 340whp with 93 pump fuel. And that's only a $5k kit!
Well, those numbers are a little optimistic. Attainable, but not common for most APR S.III kits. Most often it's around 300whp or a little more. Still wicked fast.

Come find me, my friend has a heavily modded jetta 1.8t, and a walk on him all day, its so much fun
Hmmm. E30 M3 with an s50...........
I would sure hope you walk on him!!!!!!!!!!!
Otherwise it would be p a t h e t i c.
If you have just a stock s50 motor, and if you "walk on him all day", your friend's Jetta must be "highly modified" with these 'extreme' mods:
1. Exhaust
2. Cold air intake
3. Reflashed ECU

Wow! Highly modified!!!
Yeah!
(Is the Jetta a manual or Tiptronic???)

If the guy in the e46 M3 had spent the 50,000$ on an e36 M3. And modded it, he would probably stompped on this dudes' 30,000$ (invested) volkswagon.

Its a figure of speech.
A joke.
haha
If he spent HOW MUCH on a e36 M3?
The 1.8t requires just a BOLT-ON, under $4000 turbo upgrade kit. With that kit, it will STOMP the new e60 M5 and new M6. Period.
Do the research.

If this, or if that..........
If I stuck a twin turbocharged McLaren F1 engine in a 318ti, and........

Well, those numbers are a little optimistic. Attainable, but not common for most APR S.III kits. Most often it's around 300whp or a little more. Still wicked fast.
Eh? Not the APR III kit, the APR III+ kit. Look it up - APR has on their site right now that they're Stage III+ kit (the $5k one I spoke of) puts down 340 to the wheels on 93 pump gas. They USED to post up their 100 octane numbers, but they had problems with people not spending money on any other part of their car and breaking it, so now they say if you put in higher octane and change the boost you do so at your own risk. When they DID have the 100 octane dyno on their site it was just below 400 whp.

If he spent HOW MUCH on a e36 M3?
The 1.8t requires just a BOLT-ON, under $4000 turbo upgrade kit. With that kit, it will STOMP the new e60 M5 and new M6. Period.
Do the research.

If this, or if that..........
If I stuck a twin turbocharged McLaren F1 engine in a 318ti, and........
Uh, you're only talking about 500lbs of difference, stock for stock... you think that will account for a 200hp difference (300hp with APR Stage III vs 507hp Stock M5)? Let's say the VW is actually making 400 to the wheel (spending well over the $4k for an APR Stage III+ or similar kit than you said it would take, AND having to use 100 octane to get it)... that's still a weight/power ratio of 8.25. Now let's say the M5 is only making 450whp (on 93 octane fuel BTW)... IT has a weight/power ratio of 8.44. Then you take into account the race-designed engine, the 7-speed SMG III that is faster than a human can shift......and it sounds like the M5 comes out on top. It would take more than $4k and 'bolt-ons' to make more than 400whp... that VW ain't stoppin no M5 or M6. Period.

I think YOU need to do the "research".

These seems to be one of those threads where a cheaper car which is cheap to make quicker beat an expensive car which is a lot more costly to make quick. Like the original thread starter said, E46 M3 is still a great car - its just not the fastest and many cheap cars can be modified to outrun. I've been owned by turbo this, S/C that.. Not really rocket science..

Uh, you're only talking about 500lbs of difference, stock for stock... you think that will account for a 200hp difference (300hp with APR Stage III vs 507hp Stock M5)? Let's say the VW is actually making 400 to the wheel (spending well over the $4k for an APR Stage III+ or similar kit than you said it would take, AND having to use 100 octane to get it)... that's still a weight/power ratio of 8.25. Now let's say the M5 is only making 450whp (on 93 octane fuel BTW)... IT has a weight/power ratio of 8.44. Then you take into account the race-designed engine, the 7-speed SMG III that is faster than a human can shift......and it sounds like the M5 comes out on top. It would take more than $4k and 'bolt-ons' to make more than 400whp... that VW ain't stoppin no M5 or M6. Period.
I think YOU need to do the "research".
It sounds like BS.
No, AGAIN, YOU need to do the research
APR and ATP are 2 different tuners.
ATP is NOT APR, get that straight. ATP is 90% go and 10% show, and APR is mostly about charging more for their R&D, which some customers (that don't know about ATP) will gladly pay.
ATP is way ahead of APR when it comes to the 1.8t mods.
They've gotten over 400whp with bolt-ons (on 93 octane. They got 480+ on 104 octane), and they do sell the kit.
You're quick to defend this comparo, but without any basis..........
The e60 M5 (4000lbs) and M6 (3800lbs) make about 430whp.
That's 8.83 lbs/hp for the M6 and 9.3 lbs/hp for the M5.
You're comparing this to a 2900lb GTI 1.8t with 400whp???
The GTI 1.8t makes 400whp with the kit I was talking about from ATP, (NOT APR!)
Compare that to just 7.25 lbs/hp of the 1.8t.
You're talking an easy 1/2 second and 8-10 mph trap speed advantage (and still pulling away) for the 1.8t in the 1/4 mile (just an example).
Do you know how many car lengths pass in 1/2 second at 110mph??? About 7-8, depending on the length of the car.

Not only that, but about 18% drivetrain loss for the front engine/RWD BMW's vs 14% loss for the front engine/FWD VW.


BTW, if the SMG tranny shifts faster than any human, then why is the e46 M3 SMG S L O W E R in the 1/4 mile than the regular 6 spd manual e46 M3???

Gee, does that mean that with SMG it eats up even more than 18% through the entire driveline?

Like the original thread starter said, E46 M3 is still a great car - its just not the fastest and many cheap cars can be modified to outrun. I've been owned by turbo this, S/C that.. Not really rocket science..
EXACTLY.
But some still argue........
"NO! It can't be!!!!"
(Hmmm.....OH YEAH???)
I am definately NOT a rice fan, but there are MANY piece of crap Honda's and other disposable jap imports that can beat BMW's best in a highway run.
Deal with it!

I love that video of the V10 M6 beating the crap out of the 996 Twin Turbo. Anyway, yes it is way easier to boost the crap out of my car verses an M3 of any year. The 1.8T has forged pistons stock and a 9.5:1 CR. I purchased exactly what 993 said, an ATP kit for the turbo, and a few other various manufacturers for the piping, LSD, clutch, injectors, etc...
My car is by no means maxed out on power, and I am not running it at the limits. I do beat the crap out of it, but it can definitely handle 24 psi on 93 or so oct. I still have room for alcohol/water injection and/or a nitrous fogger kit, larger intake plenum, tubular exhaust man., etc. So to those who say this car is pushed to far, you are wrong.
Good news, I just bought an Odyssey PC680T battery weighing 15 lbs for under $100, saving me another 21 lbs. I would definitely recommend it.
***To those who want to race, by all means contact me and I would love to arrange it. I love racing win or lose.***

You sound like a cool guy. Hope you stay around and post more kill stories.

I used to have a modded 1.8t but got a little fed up with the front wheel drive and handling characteristics. Great platform for power though.

to the original poster... great kill. i was in love with VW, and still am, but E36 M3 is my life dream haha, so i'm working my way up from 328


Why don't people modify the 1.8T Beetle? A "Harvest Moon Beige" Beetle with 300 whp would be a nasty little sleeper. :stickoutt

i knew a guy in highschool whose father drove a 1.8t beetle. I never really talked to the guy but saw his dad pick him up sometimes then fly off, so i assumed it was modified. i saw him kill cars with easy sometimes when i drove behind him and it was just like you said, i nasty little sleeper.

I love that video of the V10 M6 beating the crap out of the 996 Twin Turbo. Anyway, yes it is way easier to boost the crap out of my car verses an M3 of any year. The 1.8T has forged pistons stock and a 9.5:1 CR. I purchased exactly what 993 said, an ATP kit for the turbo, and a few other various manufacturers for the piping, LSD, clutch, injectors, etc...
My car is by no means maxed out on power, and I am not running it at the limits. I do beat the crap out of it, but it can definitely handle 24 psi on 93 or so oct. I still have room for alcohol/water injection and/or a nitrous fogger kit, larger intake plenum, tubular exhaust man., etc. So to those who say this car is pushed to far, you are wrong.
Good news, I just bought an Odyssey PC680T battery weighing 15 lbs for under $100, saving me another 21 lbs. I would definitely recommend it.
***To those who want to race, by all means contact me and I would love to arrange it. I love racing win or lose.***
Do you know where that video is at?

It sounds like BS.
No, AGAIN, YOU need to do the research
APR and ATP are 2 different tuners.
ATP is NOT APR, get that straight. ATP is 90% go and 10% show, and APR is mostly about charging more for their R&D, which some customers (that don't know about ATP) will gladly pay.
ATP is way ahead of APR when it comes to the 1.8t mods.
They've gotten over 400whp with bolt-ons (on 93 octane. They got 480+ on 104 octane), and they do sell the kit.
You're quick to defend this comparo, but without any basis..........
The e60 M5 (4000lbs) and M6 (3800lbs) make about 430whp.
That's 8.83 lbs/hp for the M6 and 9.3 lbs/hp for the M5.
You're comparing this to a 2900lb GTI 1.8t with 400whp???
The GTI 1.8t makes 400whp with the kit I was talking about from ATP, (NOT APR!)
Compare that to just 7.25 lbs/hp of the 1.8t.
You're talking an easy 1/2 second and 8-10 mph trap speed advantage (and still pulling away) for the 1.8t in the 1/4 mile (just an example).
Do you know how many car lengths pass in 1/2 second at 110mph??? About 7-8, depending on the length of the car.

Not only that, but about 18% drivetrain loss for the front engine/RWD BMW's vs 14% loss for the front engine/FWD VW.


BTW, if the SMG tranny shifts faster than any human, then why is the e46 M3 SMG S L O W E R in the 1/4 mile than the regular 6 spd manual e46 M3???

Gee, does that mean that with SMG it eats up even more than 18% through the entire driveline?
You're right, my apologies. I did confuse the APR kit with the ATP kit. I don't think the 430whp kit is $4k or less however; the hardware may be under $4k, but you still need a DME, other peripherals, and of course someone to tune it. Even if you could tune it yourself and installed the kit yourself the DME and other peripherals would cost more than $1,000. With the figures you proposed however the GTI would most likely beat the M6. Does a GTI weigh as little as 2900 lbs? It was posted earlier that it was around 3300, and then just below 3000lbs with 300lbs removed... :dunno Let's just say that I think it would take a little more than $4k to produce more than 400whp on the 1.8T, but your scenerio is more accurate than mine. Sorry if I came off as a jerk.

SMG ISN'T slower than a human, at least not SMG III. The E46 is slower than a manual 6sp becuase it is SMG II. SMG III (in the new M5/M6) is faster than SMG II; it's also has 7 gears which keeps the vehice in the powerband more constantly of course. The E90 M3 is going to take that a step further; dual output shafts very similar to the DSG tranny in the R32. A 7-speed super-fast paddle shifting transmission with dual output shafts....that will SMOKE.

Wait, I didn't think anyone had over 500whp in a 6 speed yet. There's only one E46 M3 that I've heard of with over 500whp (with the help of nitrous), and it's SMG. The guy who pulled the 12's in a somewhat stock car was a manual though, but he launches around 6k...
I honestly didn't know there was a 500 whp e46 M3. I was talking about a 6 spd manual e46 that was grey. it ran 12's in the quarter, I don't know what his 60' was but there is a video of him on this forum running those numbers.

as for the driver dropping the clutch at around 6k, that's perfectly acceptable in a drag race...it's about quickest time, not clutch life. :stickoutt

hell, I drop my galant at 6k and spin all 4 wheels. :D

can you tell me more about this 500 whp m3?

edit the s word.

Yes please edit the s word.This is a good thread.Don't ruin it.

Volkswagens are pieces of shit after 90k miles.

Perhaps some of the newer ones but not true for many.

Sounds like it was a fun race.

No biggy really. Any car can be made faster. But, with a BMW you get luxury, class, comfort AND awesome N/a performance.

For those getting all fussy....how much would it take to mod a lesser car(using the term loosely) to get to the level of luxury that a M3 has? Not to mention the M3 looks way better than 95% of the cars out there.

Relax guys. The advancment of these less expensive cars ends at engine mods. Don't let it bruse your ego too much. lol

Yes a highly modded vdub can take a stock bmw.. so what? a highly modded bimmer will take a highly modded vdub any day.. apples to oranges mate ;)

can you tell me more about this 500 whp m3?

Check out: www.E46PSI.com

It's the PY one.

What everyone fails to realize is that the SMG II cars are limited to only 1800 RPMs at launch. You can't modulate the clutch as you could with a traditional manual transmission...this is why the Blown E46 M3's with SMGII are not running in the 11's as they should.

Good kill. 1.8T engines are amazingly overbuilt, and can take a ton of boost before anything breaks. I had a stock A4 with a 1.8T, and it was a fun little car.

Why do some people get so pissed at threads like this? Modded VW with maybe $30k invested beats a $50k M3. Big deal, give him credit and move on. Lets face it, if given the choice between the two, 99% of 1.8T owners would choose the M3. You don't have to spend a ton of cash to win drag races, just shove a big block into something and you'll be fast in a straight line.

With that turbo you should have put more than 2 car lengths on a stock e46 M3 convertible. That's a mid-high 13 second car in the 1/4, you should be running very low 12s or 11s with your set up. My stripped down GTI with a highly tuned stock turbo set up would keep up with most e46 M3s on the street.

1.8t's are cool, but FWD is worthless with over 300 hp though.............i rode in my buddies turbo R32 vdub, awesome awesome car, i think he is running around 320 awhp, sick nasty launches. I have another friend with a 20th anniv GTI with a Ko4 turbo running 18#'s boost(mild boost, he was running 25#'s and 30 pounds peak, on accident, was set to race gas mode for dyno testing, the testers never set the boost back.......slund a rod a couple monthes later) very fun car to drive, loads of torque starting at 2k rpms, again more fun than a E36 M3 on the street, raced him in my modded 95 M and we were dead even from 60 to 130 mph. the only VW i would own sports car wise would be an R32 and VW builds great cars and you get alot more for your money than with a BMW, bare none..........see VW Touareg or Pheaton..........none better for the money.

a gti is a great sport compact car in any year, their quality control issues are a little annoying at times, but still a great car.

if the R32's werent so overpriced due to their rarity i would pick one up, VW did everything right with that car...............well, except for the lack of sex appeal in a hatchback, but much more fun to drive than a e36 M3 on the street and much better built and more comfortable than the alternative STI or EVO.

it doesnt take much for a 4 cylinder turbo anything to outperform a E46 M3 in a straight line, invest $6k in a upgraded turbo/injectors/exh on a 1.8t GTI and you are at 350 whp, you are also torque steering under all boost :( so that kinda ruins those cars for me.

Awhile back I made a list of my mods and best times.
Just to give you guys an idea of what it takes to make a 1.8t go fast,
it’s a lot more that just bolting on turbo, you have to know how to drive it too. And a lot of practice.
========================
01 AWW jetta (150hp)

8/2001
All stock 500 miles on the clock
16.1 @ 86mph full weight (3,220 lb) & stock tires.

APR 93 chip & drop in filter only.
14.7 @ 94mph full weight (3,220 lb) & stock tires.

APR 93 chip, drop in k&n filter, lsd, koni colis, & stg2 clutch.
14.5 @ 95mph full weight (3,220 lb) & stock tires.

APR stg 3 / 93 octane drop in k&n filter, lsd, koni colis,& stg2 clutch
13.4 @ 104.74mph full weight (3,220 lb) & stock tires.

APR stg 3 / 104 octane drop in k&n filter, lsd, koni colis, dump tube, 2.5" C/B & stg2 clutch.
12.911 @ 110.33mph weight (3,050 lb) & 205/50/15 dr's.

APR stg 3 / 104 octane drop in k&n filter, lsd, koni colis, dump tube, axles, MBC, APR FMIC, & spec stg3 clutch.
12.58 @ 109.96mph weight (3,050 lb) & 24.5x8.5x15 slicks.

APR stg 3+ / 93 octane drop in k&n filter, lsd, koni colis, dump tube, axles, MBC, APR FMIC, & spec stg3 clutch.
12.37 @ 112.5mph weight (3,050 lb) & 24.5x8.5x15 slicks.

APR stg 3+ / 100 octane drop in k&n filter, lsd, koni colis,dump tube, axles, MBC, APR FMIC, & spec stg3 clutch.
12.02 @ 115.27mph weight (3,050 lb) & 24.5x8.5x15 slicks.

APR Motorsport on 93 pump gas (stg 3+, pistons, rods, intake mani, s4 TB) Z flow IC, drop in k&n filter, lsd, koni colis, APR 3" c/b and cat no dump tube, axles, @ 24psi, & spec stg5 clutch.
12.1 @ 113.66mph weight (3,050 lb) & 24.5x8.5x15 slicks.

APR Motorsport on 104 octane (stg 3+, pistons, rods, intake mani, s4 TB) Z flow IC, drop in k&n filter, lsd, koni colis, APR 3" c/b and cat no dump tube, axles, @ 24psi, & spec stg5 clutch.
11.92 @ 116.27mph weight (3,050 lb) & 24.5x8.5x15 slicks.

>>>{{{And just passed NJ state inspection}}}

I got to ride in Sam's car when it was at #4 on the above list. That car just pulled forever, sweet car.

APR stg 3 / 104 octane drop in k&n filter, lsd, koni colis, dump tube, 2.5" C/B & stg2 clutch.
12.911 @ 110.33mph weight (3,050 lb) & 205/50/15 dr's.

APR stg 3 / 104 octane drop in k&n filter, lsd, koni colis, dump tube, axles, MBC, APR FMIC, & spec stg3 clutch.
12.58 @ 109.96mph weight (3,050 lb) & 24.5x8.5x15 slicks.


Uh, can we say bad launch on this 12.58 run? :D

I was about to call BS until you said this:

hahhaha +1

APR and ATP are 2 different tuners.
ATP is NOT APR, get that straight. ATP is 90% go and 10% show, and APR is mostly about charging more for their R&D, which some customers (that don't know about ATP) will gladly pay.
ATP is way ahead of APR when it comes to the 1.8t mods.
They've gotten over 400whp with bolt-ons (on 93 octane. They got 480+ on 104 octane), and they do sell the kit.

A few things...

First of all, anyone ready to drop $5000 on a turbo kit, is going to do their research. Generally they aren't noobs and have investigated the various tuners. So, saying that the APR customers "dont know about ATP" isnt exactly accurate. They are generally two types of customers looking to accomplish two different goals.

Next, there are several reasons APRs prices are higher then ATPs. First, yes APR does have substantially more R&D costs they pass along to the customer. There is a reason for this...and it is because the APR kit is complete. It includes everything for a bolt on experience. This includes VERY high quality tuning and excellent kit components. For instance, look at the APR inconnel manifold. It is a work of art compared to the other manifolds on the market. The high nickle content costs a fortune when compared to the cast iron manifolds ATP sells.

APR leaves the guess work out of getting big power out of the engine. There are not any odd fittings or pieces left out nor is there any trial and error. If you ask the people trying to get an ATP kit on the road with stock like driveability, it usually takes them weeks or months to get all the kinks worked out of the system.

My car was down for a weekend when installing the stage 3 kit. This includes doing the timing belt, water pump, thermostat service. The car started, idled, and drove perfectly on the first try. I believe NONE of the ATP eliminator kits will be able to say the same.

Also, the ATP "Mika" tuned software is terrible. I drove a car with it, and the power isnt smooth what so ever. It drives like a highly modified car. The APR cars drive like they are stock.

So, like the old addage says, you get what you pay for. If this wasnt the case, APR would not sell as many kits as they do. You are making it seem like ATP is some excellent tuner...where I can honestly say that isnt the case. ATP sells the parts needed to DIY. As I said above...its all about what you are looking for. If you have a car that you are interested in tinkering with and deal with one issue after the next, get the ATP. If you want a tried and true kit that you can bolt on and drive worry free...get APR.

Check out: www.E46PSI.com

It's the PY one.

What everyone fails to realize is that the SMG II cars are limited to only 1800 RPMs at launch. You can't modulate the clutch as you could with a traditional manual transmission...this is why the Blown E46 M3's with SMGII are not running in the 11's as they should.
linky no worky

A lot of info above. This is my experience with a lot of these ideas/facts.
Reverse order.
1) IMO APR is a far superior company to ATP. ATP does only manufacter kits and they are A LOT cheaper than APR's kit because they do require a lot of other things. I have spent months getting this car to where it is today, and it was not easy.
2) I do not know of more than 1 or 2 people making over 400 whp in a 1.8T without internals. Period. Most people agree this motor's internals are not good for over 350whp. Above that it is just a matter of time...weeks, months, etc. I've only seen one 1.8T in person making crazy power, and it was 383 whp with a massive T3/T04e turbine.
3) Whoever said that 99% of 1.8T owners would take an E46 M3 was right. However, it would be my second car, not my first. VW's are an odd style all their own, and I enjoy it because it is different. I still love any M series car though.
4) The GTI 1.8T weighs 2934 lbs (VW.com), depending on options. My car weighs around 2600 lbs as I said before. That's 800 lbs lighter than an E46 coupe. This is why I win races with less hp. As it stands right now I have added/taken out: my back seats, spare tire, everything in the rear of the car (everything), all sound deadening material below front carpeting, 14lb flywheel, and underdrive pullies.
Lastly, my car or similar cars will not beat a new model M5 or M6. Power to weight ratio is not everything in races that involve speads over 100 mph, aero dynamics play a large role as well. Fuel/boost varies in the list below (20psi minimum/91 minimum).
Kills-EVO VIII, STI, S2000, many SRT-4's, several Mustang GT's, modded Mustang GT with S/C, Pontiac GTO, several E46 coupes, 2 E46 Converts (one modded with exhaust, intake, wheels, suspension), and whatever else I can't remember.
Losses-modded Mustang Cobra, modded Mustang Saleen (crazy car), modded 996 Twin Turbo (550+HP), Porsche Carrera S (375hp), 1 E46 coupe, Saleen S7 (wow), and whatever else I can't remember.
Some of those are from digs and some are on the highway. The E46 was from a dig, and he won by about 1/2 a car length at 20psi on 91 (good race).
***Again, if someone in SoCal wants to get together to race or just cruise, feel free to chime in.***

APR Motorsport on 104 octane (stg 3+, pistons, rods, intake mani, s4 TB) Z flow IC, drop in k&n filter, lsd, koni colis, APR 3" c/b and cat no dump tube, axles, @ 35psi, & spec stg5 clutch.
--.-- @ 0 mph weight (3,050 lb) & 24.5x8.5x15 slicks. ->Blown Engine.

APR Motorsport on 104 octane (stg 3+, pistons, rods, intake mani, s4 TB) Z flow IC, drop in k&n filter, lsd, koni colis, APR 3" c/b and cat no dump tube, axles, @ 35psi, & spec stg5 clutch.
--.-- @ 0 mph weight (3,050 lb) & 24.5x8.5x15 slicks. ->Blown Engine.
35psi with incorrect tuning maybe.
Not only that, but you can melt pictons @ 8 psi (with burned plugs or clogged fuel filter or injectors) and break rods with 0 psi (over-rev), so that's not the point here.
We're assuming that enough fuel is present, timing is adjusted according to the mods, etc, etc, etc.
The 1.8t engine has made over 500whp on STOCK INTERNALS. Check vwsportDOTcom. Now obviously it won't last long at that power level, but it's been done.
Now show me a e46 M3 that makes 500whp with STOCK INTERNALS. Actually, I'd like to see one making 400whp with stock internals.

APR Motorsport on 104 octane (stg 3+, pistons, rods, intake mani, s4 TB) Z flow IC, drop in k&n filter, lsd, koni colis, APR 3" c/b and cat no dump tube, axles, @ 35psi, & spec stg5 clutch.
--.-- @ 0 mph weight (3,050 lb) & 24.5x8.5x15 slicks. ->Blown Engine.

Not at all. I ran a 28 psi setup with my stock internals for about a year without any issues. Build the internals (like he says in the 'mod list') and you're good for 40.

A few things...

First of all, anyone ready to drop $5000 on a turbo kit, is going to do their research. Generally they aren't noobs and have investigated the various tuners. So, saying that the APR customers "dont know about ATP" isnt exactly accurate. They are generally two types of customers looking to accomplish two different goals.

Next, there are several reasons APRs prices are higher then ATPs. First, yes APR does have substantially more R&D costs they pass along to the customer. There is a reason for this...and it is because the APR kit is complete. It includes everything for a bolt on experience. This includes VERY high quality tuning and excellent kit components. For instance, look at the APR inconnel manifold. It is a work of art compared to the other manifolds on the market. The high nickle content costs a fortune when compared to the cast iron manifolds ATP sells.

APR leaves the guess work out of getting big power out of the engine. There are not any odd fittings or pieces left out nor is there any trial and error. If you ask the people trying to get an ATP kit on the road with stock like driveability, it usually takes them weeks or months to get all the kinks worked out of the system.

My car was down for a weekend when installing the stage 3 kit. This includes doing the timing belt, water pump, thermostat service. The car started, idled, and drove perfectly on the first try. I believe NONE of the ATP eliminator kits will be able to say the same.

Also, the ATP "Mika" tuned software is terrible. I drove a car with it, and the power isnt smooth what so ever. It drives like a highly modified car. The APR cars drive like they are stock.

So, like the old addage says, you get what you pay for. If this wasnt the case, APR would not sell as many kits as they do. You are making it seem like ATP is some excellent tuner...where I can honestly say that isnt the case. ATP sells the parts needed to DIY. As I said above...its all about what you are looking for. If you have a car that you are interested in tinkering with and deal with one issue after the next, get the ATP. If you want a tried and true kit that you can bolt on and drive worry free...get APR.
The hardware kit costs $3400 (with GT3071R turbo). Add $795 for software.
Add your own intercooler and exhaust.
This would make it complete from A to Z. It can still be done for under $5000, and makes over 100whp more than the overpriced APR kit.
Yes, I said it: overpriced APR kit.
Driveability? Duh, you're comparing a GT28RS (300whp max, full boost at ~3000rpm) to a GT3071R (430whp max, full boost at ~4000rpm), so of course the driveability is not the same. This is not a V8, so obviously you have to give up some mid-range power to gain 100+whp, which happens in the top-end.
The thing is, I'm glad ATP offers this kit as a "hardware only" option, because not everyone wants to spend $1000 on a FMIC or $1200 on a 3" exhaust, when either one of these can be bought on eBay for under $400. (But please don't waste your time with the ssautochrome or xspower Taiwan CRAP).
99% of the time, bling and brand names will not give you extra power!

This post has gone way off focus, as most posts do. That's okay, not much of a focus in a kill stories post anyway.

I think it's only in the 12s because it's SMG and there is no high rpm launch. I'd say the trap is accurate since we're talking about a 3300-3400 lb car. Also, the guy who broke 12s with a stock M had his seats removed and possibly drag radials. Not sure though.
It's been done by more than one person.

If he spent HOW MUCH on a e36 M3?
The 1.8t requires just a BOLT-ON, under $4000 turbo upgrade kit. With that kit, it will STOMP the new e60 M5 and new M6. Period.
Do the research.

If this, or if that..........
If I stuck a twin turbocharged McLaren F1 engine in a 318ti, and........
Wouldn't stomp.
Consider that a german mag (either auto motor und sport, or sport auto) ran a 80-200kmh acceleration test:
1st: 996GT2
2nd: BMW M5
The rest (no particular order):
360 modena (maybe an f430 as well)
575 Maranello
996 GT3
996 Turbo
Lambo Murcielago (read: Murcielago)
Lambo Gallardo
Benz sl55 amg
aston db9
e55
and others

Now I'm not saying that the VeeDub can't beat some of the cars on that list, or all of them, but to say it'll stomp and M5/6 (m6 wasn't out at test time) is wrong. It might win. Maybe, and if so, not in dramatic fashion. keep in mind how aggressive smg III in s.6 shifts, and how well the transmission and engine are built/tuned for each other and the Autobahn. Roll's are the M's element. Now if a 400whp vee dub beats all of these cars, then sure it could beat an m5. If not, I wouldn't jump to irrational conclusions (FWIW, the new V10 has been tested to actually be 530-540 PS strong).

Eh? Not the APR III kit, the APR III+ kit. Look it up - APR has on their site right now that they're Stage III+ kit (the $5k one I spoke of) puts down 340 to the wheels on 93 pump gas. They USED to post up their 100 octane numbers, but they had problems with people not spending money on any other part of their car and breaking it, so now they say if you put in higher octane and change the boost you do so at your own risk. When they DID have the 100 octane dyno on their site it was just below 400 whp.
I'm saying that those are not the numbers that most (read: most) APR SIII+ customers achieve. Sure they got dynos, which is very credible, but may APR s.III+ cars have been featured in tests and mags, with additional mods to the 3+ kit and still made 300whp. FWIW, I've been to APR's site many times.

Wouldn't stomp.
Consider that a german mag (either auto motor und sport, or sport auto) ran a 80-200kmh acceleration test:
1st: 996GT2
2nd: BMW M5
The rest (no particular order):
360 modena (maybe an f430 as well)
575 Maranello
996 GT3
996 Turbo
Lambo Murcielago (read: Murcielago)
Lambo Gallardo
Benz sl55 amg
aston db9
e55
and others

Now I'm not saying that the VeeDub can't beat some of the cars on that list, or all of them, but to say it'll stomp and M5/6 (m6 wasn't out at test time) is wrong. It might win. Maybe, and if so, not in dramatic fashion. keep in mind how aggressive smg III in s.6 shifts, and how well the transmission and engine are built/tuned for each other and the Autobahn. Roll's are the M's element. Now if a 400whp vee dub beats all of these cars, then sure it could beat an m5. If not, I wouldn't jump to irrational conclusions (FWIW, the new V10 has been tested to actually be 530-540 PS strong).

Are you sure it wasn't a BMW-biased magazine?

So the M5 was 2nd (behind the 911 GT2) from 50mph-125mph (80-200kph)?
And the Murcielago, Ferrari F430, 575 Maranello, and AMG E55 were slower???
Who's wet dream was that?

Are you sure it wasn't a BMW-biased magazine?

So the M5 was 2nd (behind the 911 GT2) from 50mph-125mph (80-200kph)?
And the Murcielago, Ferrari F430, 575 Maranello, and AMG E55 were slower???
Who's wet dream was that?

Murcielago is awd, ferrari 575M has 515hp but is geared a bit higher than the M5... If it is true that the new M5 puts out 530hp I can imagine it is a tad faster to 200kmh with the smg3 and all.

Makes me wonder who is it that is having wet dreams.. :rolleyes Sure a 1,8t beats a new M5, especially from a roll.. 200mph anyone?

Murcielago is awd, ferrari 575M has 515hp but is geared a bit higher than the M5... If it is true that the new M5 puts out 530hp I can imagine it is a tad faster to 200kmh with the smg3 and all.

Makes me wonder who is it that is having wet dreams.. :rolleyes Sure a 1,8t beats a new M5, especially from a roll.. 200mph anyone?
Another thing to consider is ever since the S54 BMW engines have been able to 'detect' octane. SO, an M5 may only make 507chp on 93, but if you were using 100 octane fuel the DME would correct to compensate and would produce more power.

My new tranny tops out at 155mph. The stock tranny was good for say 165, this one has different gearing.

linky no worky
His username here is JMWeb...After a quich search, he was apparantly trying to get an idea of how much he could get for it back in August. The car sounds angry/amazing, I heard it a few months ago after I made a visit to AA.

For Sale: 500rwhp E46 M3

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just trying to get a feel for what i could get for my 2002 BMW E46 M3.

It has about 55,000 miles on it and came with the following options:
Harmon Kardon, SMG transmission, Sunroof, Leather interior, power seats, park distance control and the front strut brace.

The engine was replaced by BMW under warranty at 25,000 miles. So the current engine has around 30,000 miles of use.

The car has between $35,000 - $40,000 in modifications and has accomplished things that no other M3 has in the US.
It is the 1st E46 M3 in NA to hit 500rwhp.

The Kelley Bluebook value for a private parts seller goes for $32,000 (good condition) and $34,000 (excellent condition - which the car is).

Knowing what the car has become and what it has accomplished, i would only consider offers near $70,000.

Full Mod List:
System: AA SC Level II + Nitrous
Specs: 7.5psi WI Cooled, Custom Tuning, Nitrous Express Wet System, Fuel Cell
Engine: Denso Irridium Spark Plugs, Ignition Solution Coils
Drivetrain: Gen. 2 UUC Stage II Clutch & Flywheel - Sachs Organic, BHS Electric Fan
Exhaust: Ceramic Coated Euro Headers, SS Race Pipe, AA muffler
Suspension: Bilstein PSS9 coilovers, UUC Sway Bars, UUC TME's, GC RTB Enforcers
Interior: Recaro Pole Position Race shells, Stripped interior and trunk
Electronics: Autometer Boost, Nitrous & Volt gauge, Aquamist DDS2 display, AEM Uego wideband display unit, Nitrous Express Remote Bottle opener, Nitrous Express Bottle warmer, Nitrous Express Window switch module, Nitrous Express Purge kit, Custom Fuel pump and Fuel pressure regulator
Exterior: Vorsteiner Carbon Fiber CSL Bumper and Trunk, Vorsteiner Carbon Fiber GTR Vented Hood, Color-matched Interior Headlight trim, blacked out kidney and side grills
Brakes: Brembo GT BBK (14'/13.6')
Wheels: SSR Competitions
------------------
Power Rating: 512.13 rwhp
Dyno: Dynojet (SAE) Weight: 3250 lbs
.25mi: 12.43 @ 118.85mph

The hardware kit costs $3400 (with GT3071R turbo). Add $795 for software.
Add your own intercooler and exhaust.
This would make it complete from A to Z. It can still be done for under $5000, and makes over 100whp more than the overpriced APR kit.
Yes, I said it: overpriced APR kit.
Driveability? Duh, you're comparing a GT28RS (300whp max, full boost at ~3000rpm) to a GT3071R (430whp max, full boost at ~4000rpm), so of course the driveability is not the same.
The thing is, I'm glad ATP offers this kit as a "hardware only" option, because not everyone wants to spend $1000 on a FMIC or $1200 on a 3" exhaust, when either one of these can be bought on eBay for under $400. (But please don't waste your time with the ssautochrome or xspower Taiwan CRAP).
99% of the time, bling and brand names will not give you extra power!

Driveability. By that I mean onset of power, boost surging, smoothness, etc. Not lag. Trust me, the APR software is where the quality really shines.

Next, if you think the 28rs achieves full boost by 3k, you are dreaming. I dont even get that with my 28r (full boost by ~3700). The 3071 isnt coming close to full boost by 4k. No way, no how. Do you even have any real world experience with these kits, or are you keyboard tuning?

Yes, I understand that some people feel the APR kit is overpriced. It is expensive, but it comes with significantly higher quality components. Why buy a Rolex when you can buy a Timex? You pay for the rolex because its made of quality metals and the smooth sweeping hand, right? They both keep time, but the timex is rough around the edges. Then again, I have read and seen first hand what a pain the ATP kits really end up being, despite how "complete" their kits are marketed to be. Poor fitting components and crap software designed for a DIYer.

Like I said before...the APR kit is for those that want to strap it on and go. You pay a premium for that, the better software, and higher quality components. Purchasing the kit will depend if you are a guy like me, who demands quality goods and dont mind paying a premium...or ATP if you want to figure it out yourself.

Another thing to consider is ever since the S54 BMW engines have been able to 'detect' octane. SO, an M5 may only make 507chp on 93, but if you were using 100 octane fuel the DME would correct to compensate and would produce more power.
many people keep saying this but none of them realize that this is ONLY true if the vehicle is tuned for 100 octane etc.

ie - it can only run as good as the dme is programmed to run. regardless if it could detect 120 octane fuel, if bmw's engineers didn't install the code in there, it won't know what to do with it.

higher octane fuel in a turbo setup can be manipulated by increasing boost pressure, this is something you cannot do with an NA like the M3 or M5.

Driveability. By that I mean onset of power, boost surging, smoothness, etc. Not lag. Trust me, the APR software is where the quality really shines.

Next, if you think the 28rs achieves full boost by 3k, you are dreaming. I dont even get that with my 28r (full boost by ~3700). The 3071 isnt coming close to full boost by 4k. No way, no how. Do you even have any real world experience with these kits, or are you keyboard tuning?

Yes, I understand that some people feel the APR kit is overpriced. It is expensive, but it comes with significantly higher quality components. Why buy a Rolex when you can buy a Timex? You pay for the rolex because its made of quality metals and the smooth sweeping hand, right? They both keep time, but the timex is rough around the edges. Then again, I have read and seen first hand what a pain the ATP kits really end up being, despite how "complete" their kits are marketed to be. Poor fitting components and crap software designed for a DIYer.

Like I said before...the APR kit is for those that want to strap it on and go. You pay a premium for that, the better software, and higher quality components. Purchasing the kit will depend if you are a guy like me, who demands quality goods and dont mind paying a premium...or ATP if you want to figure it out yourself.
Yes, I've had PLENTY of experience with these turbos. On several different 1.8t's. (3 A4's, 2 GTI's, and 1 TT)
Yes, the GT28RS does reach full boost just UNDER 3000rpm (.64 turbine) on a 1.8t with 3" turbo-back exhaust, and the GT3071R reaches full boost at 4000rpm (with a .63 a/r turbine).
If you're talking about the .82 housing, then yes, an additional 400-500rpm lag is experienced, but it will also make 20-30whp more with the larger housing, and the power will not taper off towards 7000rpm.
Yes, APR = quality and less power for more $. Not for anyone looking for a win, just a nice upgrade that doesn't require any real experience. It's obvious who APR's customers are.......people that have more $ than knowledge, and who will settle for 65% potential. I prefer being closer to 95% potential (as much as the mechanical limits allow).
No one will ever win 100% of the time, but 65% potential will result in more "he beat me, but.....but " situations.

Here's my dyno with stg 3+ on 100 octane @ 24psi
gt28rs /.64
356whp & 366wtq
http://forum.vwsport.com/pics/data/500/medium/2358100_octane_dyno.jpg

Good lord..Young one's...

I had a 1980 EURO GTi with a built motor, bored out to 1.7 made around 140hp LIGHT AS PISS! Talk about some damn fun!!! Try killing an old IROC Z in a lowly rabbit, I took all the GTi badges off:D

Bo did I piss some rednecks off in that car.

It looked like a round eye 77 rabbit..I even put steel 13x6inch euro wheels on it with no hub caps...

I killed some cars in that sucker!!

Mustang GT's, IROC's, COnquest TSi, Rx7's...then again it was back in the late 80's early 90's...

I still wish I had that car back:(

Here's my dyno with stg 3+ on 100 octane @ 24psi
gt28rs /.64
356whp & 366wtq
http://forum.vwsport.com/pics/data/500/medium/2358100_octane_dyno.jpg
In what gear was that dyno run?
I know it makes a big difference in boost response (not enough time to spool up if it's 2nd or 3rd).
4th gear from about 1500rpm would be nice to see. Also, I can bet it ran too much ignition retard with a leaner mixture (typical APR safety) at that boost level. Does it maintain 24psi up to 6500rpm or so? I know that ATP has much more agressive timing curves/richer A/F ratio than other tuners, resulting in more power and better response.
Now of course, I get full boost "as low as" 3k rpm, meaning punching it in 4th or 5th gear at low rpm, but obviously not the optimum way to make power. Just stating at what rpm it CAN make full boost.

i've driven a couple 1.8t chipped ko4's they are pretty peppy cars with alot of pull, soo much boost at soo little rpms, i couldnt imagine a bigger tubo with fwd, the high boosting k04 torque steer is annoying, but my buddies AWD TT is awesom to drive, you can drive that thing like a maniac and just grips, alot more fun to drive than my NA 99 M3, but still not as comfortable and the visibility is horrible! And something about the fwd gti fron supsension geometry that doesnt lend itself well to lowering vs the awd tt and R32.

i may own a TT one day just for shyts and giggles, but the fwd gti's just arent fun to push around corners.

It takes practice to get it right.

Nice work on the vdub, I admire the work you put in. If I had to buy a car for all around fun and never modding it would be a M series. But when it comes down to it modding those cars is not worth the net outcome, at least for me. The M3 while being quick for a stock car has proven not to be a great challenge for my current trim. Disclaimer "I am modded so not a fair comparison!" While not at the poster's level yet I am making considerably more power with a very little outlay of cash most of which went to other mods such as suspension, brakes ...etc. I have yet to redyno but easily 300/330 at the wheels in hp/trq at conservative 17psi peak. Basically it's alot of fun to take a stock car and make it into what fits you and your goals without insulting other people's choices. Atp does make some decent parts but I think Apr would play out to be a more complete solution.

I think I would kill myself if I got smoked a VW beetle.

Sounds like it was a fun race.

No biggy really. Any car can be made faster. But, with a BMW you get luxury, class, comfort AND awesome N/a performance.

For those getting all fussy....how much would it take to mod a lesser car(using the term loosely) to get to the level of luxury that a M3 has? Not to mention the M3 looks way better than 95% of the cars out there.

Relax guys. The advancment of these less expensive cars ends at engine mods. Don't let it bruse your ego too much. lol

anyone ever tell you that you are a tool? EVERYONE here respects the guy because he is rather humble about his car. I know this is a BMW forum, but man you seem like the kind of guy who thinks BMW is the end all of cars. There is always some nicer/faster and looks better, get over yourself! have you every sat in a vw/audi? they are nothing to sneer at. and you can't say the M3 looks better than 95% of the cars on the road. granted you or I may think that, but guess what, its all a matter of OPINION. Give respect where its due, not making excuses where you come up short. don't be mad at us, we aren't your father.

hey hey hey - easy there, no need for the flaming. :nono

The point wasn't to flame....in fact thats the last thing I was trying to do, I just don't get why there is ALWAYS one person to say well its just a lesser car or so on and so forth or the whole at least you drove home in a bmw or you would have had him in the twisties. you are a mod, I'm sure you know what i am talking about.

The point wasn't to flame....in fact thats the last thing I was trying to do, I just don't get why there is ALWAYS one person to say well its just a lesser car or so on and so forth or the whole at least you drove home in a bmw or you would have had him in the twisties. you are a mod, I'm sure you know what i am talking about.
I do know what you're talking about but you have to realize that there will always be an elitist (or 20) regardless of the subject.

-Ron

He's the same kid who would get struck in a game of dodgeball and make excuses like "It bounced off the ground first" ..."It hit my shirt, not my body"..."Are these regulation dodge balls?"..instead of just sitting on the sidelines.

I do know what you're talking about but you have to realize that there will always be an elitist (or 20) regardless of the subject.

-Ron

i know, and I do realize that...it just boggles the mind how there is ALWAYS someone

Kiley is that in reference to me or the post I wrote about?

and back to the issue here....I was under the impression that ATP's K04 eliminator kit wasn't yet available for the MKIV platform. I keep checking the website and it says about 6 weeks out. so my question to you desertfx, do you have some sort of hook up with the company? are you doing some testing with them or something?

I think I would kill myself if I got smoked a VW beetle.

Better watch out. I know a few guys locally that have swapped the Haldex TT drive line into a new Bug. With the addition of a big turbo - watch out.

Then again, a Chip/Exhaust bug is enough to walk a 328.

Kiley is that in reference to me or the post I wrote about?


Not you. I was just making a connection with the guys who were sore losers in junior high dodgeball and guys on the internet that can't accept defeat to "lesser" cars. You can't win 'em all.

Are you sure it wasn't a BMW-biased magazine?

So the M5 was 2nd (behind the 911 GT2) from 50mph-125mph (80-200kph)?
And the Murcielago, Ferrari F430, 575 Maranello, and AMG E55 were slower???
Who's wet dream was that?

Now I know you LOVE being right, but that's not the case this time. Vids have proven the M5/M6's speed. 7 speed + 530-540PS, and considering the Lambo's drivetrain loss (and the car could have had their version of the e-shift or e-gear whatever it's called), and testing done by pros (independent, too. SA and AMS are not BMW biased), it makes sense. Maybe the m5 is more than the sum of its parts. Maybe the m5 is more than the sum of your gti biases;)

24 psi on a 1.8T?
How many kills do you expect to make before you smoke that little engine?
What is the stock turbo psi?

That's not unheard of, maybe not apples to apples, but I was in the DSM game and those 2.0 liter 4 cylinders could pump upwards of 30 psi with stock internals and supporting mods. :)

Now I know you LOVE being right, but that's not the case this time. Vids have proven the M5/M6's speed. 7 speed + 530-540PS, and considering the Lambo's drivetrain loss (and the car could have had their version of the e-shift or e-gear whatever it's called), and testing done by pros (independent, too. SA and AMS are not BMW biased), it makes sense. Maybe the m5 is more than the sum of its parts. Maybe the m5 is more than the sum of your gti biases;)
I am not gti biased. I am REALITY biased. Deal with it. Maybe aquiring an M coupe is more than the sum of your "faster than a 1.8t" dreams. Maybe.
Oh, and pretty soon we're gonna hear news that the new m5 and m6 has 560hp, then 590hp, and so on.
Great way to compare 2 cars when you don't have correct specs, aye???
Gee, can the 507hp SMG 4000lb m5 really beat a 415hp 3400lb 911 by 6 car lengths (or more) from 50-160???
There's no magic here (especially when comparing 2 of Germany's finest). Yes, the m5 has an efficient driveline, but understating it's actual HP is an old marketing trick that I first remember being done on the 20th Anniv Pontiac Trans-Am back in 1989. (They claimed 250hp, the car weighed 3600lbs, and it did 0-60 in 4.6 seconds!)
Hp is hp, and the lb/hp figure is a good way to estimate a race between 2 cars from a roll. When 1 car is considerably faster with the same power to weight ratio, someone is lying about the actual power that car puts to the ground. Simple as that.

I am not gti biased. I am REALITY biased. Deal with it. Maybe aquiring an M coupe is more than the sum of your "faster than a 1.8t" dreams. Maybe.
Oh, and pretty soon we're gonna hear news that the new m5 and m6 has 560hp, then 590hp, and so on.
Great way to compare 2 cars when you don't have correct specs, aye???
Gee, can the 507hp SMG 4000lb m5 really beat a 415hp 3400lb 911 by 6 car lengths (or more) from 50-160???
There's no magic here (especially when comparing 2 of Germany's finest). Yes, the m5 has an efficient driveline, but understating it's actual HP is an old marketing trick that I first remember being done on the 20th Anniv Pontiac Trans-Am back in 1989. (They claimed 250hp, the car weighed 3600lbs, and it did 0-60 in 4.6 seconds!)
Hp is hp, and the lb/hp figure is a good way to estimate a race between 2 cars from a roll. When 1 car is considerably faster with the same power to weight ratio, someone is lying about the actual power that car puts to the ground. Simple as that.

Power to weight is power to weight, but that's not everything in roll racing, not everything by a long shot. There are plenty of other factors. Obviously a 4000lb 500 crank horsepower M5 isn't going to spin the tires, but in a race with REAL fast cars, they spin upwards of 100mph. Factor that in.

Also you are forgetting about driver error, being able to launch the car at the correct RPM and being able to shift the car properly and at the right time, and fast enough.

I have been involved in several races where that made the difference.

Finally Redline makes a HUGE difference. I don't have to shift until 8000rpm. When my opponent has to shift at 6500-7000, I get a HUGE jump when he shifts.

All of this means power to weight has a lot, but not everything to do with it.

Jump in the car in my sig at 35psi and punch it at 100mph and it spins the tires.

I recently got back from the motor 4 toys GTG in L.A. Man that was a good time. There had to be 1000+ cars there. Everything imaginable. A lot of Supras (10 or so) that look just like the one in the sig above. Massive turbos on really clean cars. I did a canyon run (if you were there you know)with about 30 BMWs, and I have to say that your cars kick *$$. In the straights I beat several M's, but on these crazy twisties I had to really struggle. So thumbs up to you guys and your crazy handling. BTW I am running TEIN SS Damper Coilovers. Hopefully some pics make it on here from this run. I know someone took full video.

Now, back to the subject. NO, I do not have some crazy hookup at ATP. I am not even running a KO4. I am not running an "Eliminator" Series turbo either. If you guys did not already know, all an Eliminator is, is a turbo that bolts straight up to the stock manifold. I have a Garret GT2871R with an ATP log style manifold, and 3" piping from the turbo back. FYI I paid $2195 for the kit.:eek:

damn, look at the dub heads that came outta the woodworks...........yeah, i heard vwvortex was sinking due to lack of interest, you know, with the new and unimproved butt ugly MKV jettas and soon to be golfs stinkin up the roads...........oooooooooooooh:devillook

Despite your opinion and calling me names(childish:rolleyes ). My point was to help folks calm down/or rather to defuse the situation(which I see you are looking for something to argue over). I won't bother going in any further depth with you. You are waaaayyyy to defensive.:rolleyes

anyone ever tell you that you are a tool? EVERYONE here respects the guy because he is rather humble about his car. I know this is a BMW forum, but man you seem like the kind of guy who thinks BMW is the end all of cars. There is always some nicer/faster and looks better, get over yourself! have you every sat in a vw/audi? they are nothing to sneer at. and you can't say the M3 looks better than 95% of the cars on the road. granted you or I may think that, but guess what, its all a matter of OPINION. Give respect where its due, not making excuses where you come up short. don't be mad at us, we aren't your father.

1 EVERYONE here respects the guy because he is rather humble about his car.

2 I know this is a BMW forum, but man you seem like the kind of guy who thinks BMW is the end all of cars

3 Give respect where its due, not making excuses where you come up short. don't be mad at us, we aren't your father.

Actually, I think I should touch on these "points" you try to make.
1.I don't respect people because of their car or because of their attitude on their car. Honestly, to respect someone because of a car(in any sense), is rather shallow to me. There are actual important things I base respect off of and cars just aren't anywhere close.

2.You assumed wrong. You seem like the kind of guy who spouts-off before thinking things through because you get your feelings hurt or a nerve got touched. I never EVER EVER flammed or insulted the guy(this can apply your your basing respect off of cars, I never disrespected him).

3.You are making no sense whatsoever. Respect...coming up short...father...if you are going to insult my intelligence at least make your insults apply to the situation and don't pull crap out of your butthole and try to pass it off as applicapable.

I really dont know what to think about the new M5, in europe it beats both the 911 turbo and gallardo, but some guy on 6speedonline.com tested his brothers m5 against his 911 turbo and gallardo and they both smoked the m5.

Power to weight is power to weight, but that's not everything in roll racing, not everything by a long shot. There are plenty of other factors. Obviously a 4000lb 500 crank horsepower M5 isn't going to spin the tires, but in a race with REAL fast cars, they spin upwards of 100mph. Factor that in.

Also you are forgetting about driver error, being able to launch the car at the correct RPM and being able to shift the car properly and at the right time, and fast enough.

I have been involved in several races where that made the difference.

Finally Redline makes a HUGE difference. I don't have to shift until 8000rpm. When my opponent has to shift at 6500-7000, I get a HUGE jump when he shifts.

All of this means power to weight has a lot, but not everything to do with it.

Jump in the car in my sig at 35psi and punch it at 100mph and it spins the tires.

Well OBVIOUSLY, I would only make a FAIR comparison; assuming both drivers could max their cars out, launching or from a roll (the type of race here) and shifting as fast as possible.
That "shifting at 8000rpm and getting a huge jump on your opponent when he shifts" figure you mention won't help your 700hp Supra one bit if there's a built Mustang 5.0 Turbo running 30+ psi of boost and redlines at 6000rpm and makes 800+hp and 1000+lb-ft of torque, so that is a relative and extremely variable form of opinion, depending on the 2 cars being compared.

Maybe aquiring an M coupe is more than the sum of your "faster than a 1.8t" dreams. Maybe.

Wow that really had something to do with the topic...:rolleyes it doesn't matter what car you or I have when it comes to that test.

Oh, and pretty soon we're gonna hear news that the new m5 and m6 has 560hp, then 590hp, and so on. Great way to compare 2 cars when you don't have correct specs, aye???
Actually, BMW officials have said it themselves, stupid.

Gee, can the 507hp SMG 4000lb m5 really beat a 415hp 3400lb 911 by 6 car lengths (or more) from 50-160???
You know the answer to this;)
There's no magic here (especially when comparing 2 of Germany's finest). Yes, the m5 has an efficient driveline, but understating it's actual HP is an old marketing trick that I first remember being done on the 20th Anniv Pontiac Trans-Am back in 1989. (They claimed 250hp, the car weighed 3600lbs, and it did 0-60 in 4.6 seconds!)
Ya know the same thing can be said for the m5 and its results... a little faster than only numbers can reflect. This point is helping MY argument. For example, we all know the SRT4 produces closer to 270 crank.
Hp is hp, and the lb/hp figure is a good way to estimate a race between 2 cars from a roll.
The stopwatch is better:D And it's not an estimate:D
When 1 car is considerably faster with the same power to weight ratio, someone is lying about the actual power that car puts to the ground. Simple as that.
Again, other variables, such as tranny shift speed, gearing, aero, Drivetrain loss from awd at speed, the fact that the tested speeds may have been the bimmers best range (and not so ideal for competitors) and the fact that the m5 is underrated from factory as confirmed by the ENGINEERS. It can add up if you consider the best case scenario for th M5.

Again, this was tested independently. They've done far more in terms of analyzing the m5's (and competitors) speed than you ever have. Plus, you're talking like an offended teenager. It's annoying. Do change your ways;)

I really dont know what to think about the new M5, in europe it beats both the 911 turbo and gallardo, but some guy on 6speedonline.com tested his brothers m5 against his 911 turbo and gallardo and they both smoked the m5.
In vids the I've seen the M destroy a 996 turbo. Never seen a gallardo race, but the m5 managed to pull a modded 550. Everyone here has seen that one.

Wow that really had something to do with the topic...:rolleyes it doesn't matter what car you or I have when it comes to that test.


Actually, BMW officials have said it themselves, stupid.


You know the answer to this;)

Ya know the same thing can be said for the m5 and its results... a little faster than only numbers can reflect. This point is helping MY argument. For example, we all know the SRT4 produces closer to 270 crank.

The stopwatch is better:D And it's not an estimate:D

Again, other variables, such as tranny shift speed, gearing, aero, Drivetrain loss from awd at speed, the fact that the tested speeds may have been the bimmers best range (and not so ideal for competitors) and the fact that the m5 is underrated from factory as confirmed by the ENGINEERS. It can add up if you consider the best case scenario for th M5.

Again, this was tested independently. They've done far more in terms of analyzing the m5's (and competitors) speed than you ever have. Plus, you're talking like an offended teenager. It's annoying. Do change your ways;)

Ever heard this one..........
Arguing over the internet is like the Special Olympics.....Even if you win, you're still retarded.

So what does that say about you?

There you go!!! Keep proving it, over and over!

In vids the I've seen the M destroy a 996 turbo. Never seen a gallardo race, but the m5 managed to pull a modded 550. Everyone here has seen that one.
Yeah, and I've seen vids to the contrary, so deal with it.
It's in your head, Schwanzer.

Post vids. The 911 turbo vid is on here. search.

PS. So now that we're both retarded how does it feel to still lose?;)

A e60 M5 pulled on a modded 550?
How was that 550 modded?
Must have been with a single 2" exhaust and a "turbonator" fan in the intake.
Well in that case, I've seen a e60 M5 pull a F1 car. (F1 car was parked).
Derrrrrrrrr!

So now that we're both retarded how does it feel to still lose?;)
Speak for yourself. :lol
I was trying to make a point, that's all!!!

BMW's new m5 and m6 are the fastest and best.
BETTER THAN THOSE CRAP BENZES. PERIOD. You might not believe it, but it's a fact.

Ok pal, lay off the drugs now.

A e60 M5 pulled on a modded 550?
How was that 550 modded?
Must have been with a single 2" exhaust and a "turbonator" fan in the intake.
Well in that case, I've seen a e60 M5 pull a F1 car. (F1 car was parked).
Derrrrrrrrr!
All I know is modded (clearly ferrari owners love turbonators). Don't know how much, how little. Either way, the entire board knows of this already.

Post 911 vids. Cmon. We know you don't like the m5, now you can show us why.

BTW, you tried to prove a point, but you're credibility is shot cause you never brought supporting facts with you other than "vid" speculation. And I'll tell you right now that the m5 wasn't trying, or it was staged. Again, look around at what I AND EVERYONE ELSE has posted. Proving a point is no good if you can never admit you're wrong.

All I know is modded (clearly ferrari owners love turbonators). Don't know how much, how little. Either way, the entire board knows of this already.

Post 911 vids. Cmon. We know you don't like the m5, now you can show us why.

BTW, you tried to prove a point, but you're credibility is shot cause you never brought supporting facts with you other than "vid" speculation. And I'll tell you right now that the m5 wasn't trying, or it was staged. Again, look around at what I AND EVERYONE ELSE has posted. Proving a point is no good if you can never admit you're wrong.
I love the M5, it's great.
But I know where it stands, and I will not overglorify it by saying it's the best, or what car it can supposedly "beat".
Grow up.
My post about the vid of my 911 beating a F40 is a joke (he refused to race), but if you had half a brain, you'd figure that out on your own.

^ I know it's a joke. Hence the;) used. I want these heralded 911 vs m5/6 vids.
And I never said the m5 was best. It got beat. Just not by the cars you'd wish it had lost to. You just are unwilling to acknowledge that you were wrong. You don't know where the m5's place is. Learn how to read, read previous posts, consider tests conducted, and shut up. Really.

Not only that, you a fucking idiot to think that the m5 and m6 can be beaten by any of those cars on that list. Let alone ANY modified VW.
So just fuck off.
We've all had enough of your nonsense and antiBMW BS.

What???
You need help.
Get some facts straight, pal:
There are MANY other non-BMW cars out there that would waste the new M5. Deal with it.
So you had to resort to swearing, huh?
Pathetic.

Mods, that altered by someone other than myself. It's clear we have an immature member among us. The fact that you would go this far to try and get me booted is insane. I thought I'd seen it all.

That's a pathetic attempt at more BS, and you know it.
What's the matter, you didn't delete your post fast enough, huh?
Thought nobody saw it?
Think again.

Wow I thought that you may have been a ''grown upz'', because you seemed to show some good knowledge about the veedubs. Unfortunately that stopped with the bmw M5 issue. You're trying to alter my posts on the internet? Get a life! My goodness. I've never ever witnessed an adult try this. You sound like a teenager. And no 17 year old could own the cars you claim to have owned unnless your parents own the carribean islands and spoil you rotten.. An adult doin g this?

Hey, I have an idea. Let's take everything that someone says to you on the internet personally. Then get angry and say something that could get other people banned so that you can feel better. Just remember, as long as you flame enough and post your opinion on meaningless comparisons and arguements, you will be king of the BMW forums.

I hope no one minds if I get off topic, just to say that it was a nice kill.

Hey, I have an idea. Let's take everything that someone says to you on the internet personally. Then get angry and say something that could get other people banned so that you can feel better. Just remember, as long as you flame enough and post your opinion on meaningless comparisons and arguements, you will be king of the BMW forums.

I hope no one minds if I get off topic, just to say that it was a nice kill.
If you looked into the other threads you'll see that he would take quotes from me, and alter them in his posts, as if to quote me cursing and insulting him way beyond any measure that is allowed. I never cursed towards him, nor did I say the things he alleges I said when he ''quoted" me. That's why I call for ban, because he is TRYING to get me banned.

If you looked into the other threads you'll see that he would take quotes from me, and alter them in his posts, as if to quote me cursing and insulting him way beyond any measure that is allowed. I never cursed towards him, nor did I say the things he alleges I said when he ''quoted" me. That's why I call for ban, because he is TRYING to get me banned.
I didn't alter anything. They're your words. Stop living in a world of denial and little pansies, and deal with it.
I'm not trying to get you banned.
You're trying to get yourself banned.
Talk about taking it personal!!!
You know the rules. Follow them.
Your problem is that you didn't delete your own post fast enough.
I caught it, and made it public.

And no, I'm not some teenage punk just because we don't see eye to eye.
I have plenty of experience with most German specialty cars, having owned more than 40 since I was 16, and I know what I'm talking about, no matter what you're smoking or what fantasies will make you think that the new M5 and M6 are the fastest cars on the road.

sweet. Dubs are awesome. My chipped 1.8t was able to keep up with my dad's M3 cab when we went from a roll :D

sweet. Dubs are awesome. My chipped 1.8t was able to keep up with my dad's M3 cab when we went from a roll :D
Are you serious?
No way, that's impossible!!!
A BMW that runs 13.0 in the 1/4 mile is ALWAYS faster than a VW that runs 13.0 seconds. :evil2

If you looked into the other threads you'll see that he would take quotes from me, and alter them in his posts, as if to quote me cursing and insulting him way beyond any measure that is allowed. I never cursed towards him, nor did I say the things he alleges I said when he ''quoted" me. That's why I call for ban, because he is TRYING to get me banned. then pm whichever mods that are in control of this subforum and explain what happened. don't let him have the satisfaction in knowing that he pissed you off. if you keep arguing with him it won't stop, and this thread should have been closed because of it about two pages ago.

I have plenty of experience with most German specialty cars, having owned more than 40 since I was 16, and I know what I'm talking about, no matter what you're smoking or what fantasies will make you think that the new M5 and M6 are the fastest cars on the road. who cares. stop arguing about what other people think and get on with your life, because no matter what you say, they won't change their mind.

sweet. Dubs are awesome. My chipped 1.8t was able to keep up with my dad's M3 cab when we went from a roll :D
You got that right.
You should see what a little 1.8t GTI with a $3400 bolt-on turbo upgrade kit from ATP (400+whp) will do to a e46 M3.
It's like a e60 M5 vs a 330ci!!!

then pm whichever mods that are in control of this subforum and explain what happened. don't let him have the satisfaction in knowing that he pissed you off. if you keep arguing with him it won't stop, and this thread should have been closed because of it about two pages ago.

who cares. stop arguing about what other people think and get on with your life, because no matter what you say, they won't change their mind.
I will do just that.

Wow. The mods locked this post before this website crashed for two days, I can see why they did. Who really gives a s#!t about arguing anyway? I'd rather go out racing...I think I'll do that right now. :cool

Are you serious?
No way, that's impossible!!!
A BMW that runs 13.0 in the 1/4 mile is ALWAYS faster than a VW that runs 13.0 seconds. :evil2


Are you trying to make a point by saying obsurd things?

I swear i'm on like 10 messageboards and people are just making big deal out of beating a e46 m3, i mean it's like racing a 01 Svt Cobra big deal. Now lets to the point when we see that same GTI vs a new bmw m5 then we'll start talking. In a way with GT2871R turbo kit, i'm pretty sure you'll be able to demolish a e46 m3 all day, if not talk about horrible tuning.

A civic with 1100 hp rules, comparisons should always be done out of the box HP's:)

Mods - depends on how much $ you spend to have the fastest car