I know it is difficult to finely assess a cars value via the internet. A co-worker sent me a link to a for sale post on a local forum. A "young" person is selling a 1991 M5 with 160K on it. I've seen pictures and it looks nice. He doesn't know much about the car. His dad gave it him, and now he has decided that he can't keep up the maintence on it and is selling. He doesn't list any know problems, but I am skeptical as always. He wants $9000 or best offer. That seems very low for a straight car if is. Does sound correct to you in the E34 crowd?

eh, it will need 5-6K minimum... maybe 10K to make it right... but it the car is aethetically clean, it might be worth a look...

Can't afford maintenance=didn't do maintenance. Maybe he got smart quickly, or maybe he waited until stuff started going wrong. For $9k seems like it would be worth a look.

Can't afford maintenance=didn't do maintenance. Maybe he got smart quickly, or maybe he waited until stuff started going wrong. For $9k seems like it would be worth a look.

I think you are pretty close to the truth. Either this person knows next to nothing about what he has, except it's a BMW and goes fast. Or he took it somewhere for a problem and got the shock of his life and is now ready to bail.

I think you are pretty close to the truth. Either this person knows next to nothing about what he has, except it's a BMW and goes fast. Or he took it somewhere for a problem and got the shock of his life and is now ready to bail.
:lol

It pays to do some research

I think you are pretty close to the truth. Either this person knows next to nothing about what he has, except it's a BMW and goes fast. Or he took it somewhere for a problem and got the shock of his life and is now ready to bail.

I've seen that car around. Looks okay...

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/827762/2

Links to pictures of the car. I should go look at and see what's up.

Ill go with you if you want... I'd like to look at it. There was an M5 in the Star about 6 months ago for 8500 with a salvage title... :dunno

Pix look good. But you never know. Records are a must. I'd put it up and have a look see. 9K is dirt cheap if it's any good at all. Hell you could part it out and make money.

. Hell you could part it out and make money.

This is what I have been thinking. These cars are becoming available for $7-9k and with trannies going for $2k, motors $4-6k and t-stars for $1k, it makes sense. Not to mention all the nagging little switches, exhaust, glass, etc...
-t

One of you KC guys should at least go check it out, the car looks really clean. Driver's seat is suspect with the cover, but everything else looks nice. Maybe the kid got the car from his dad who took care of it, saw what maintenance was going to cost and got scared. Also, I bet KBB and NADA values on these are lower than actual values, if he doesn't know M5s he may think that's all it's worth.

:rofl: ....I've got this picture in my head of some kid in a shop asking the tech what the hell thrust arms are :)

For 9k it's worth the look, if you have the means I would definitely look into it-

NADA lists low retail as $10,500, I checked. I wish that were the going rate.

Ill go with you if you want... I'd like to look at it. There was an M5 in the Star about 6 months ago for 8500 with a salvage title... :dunno

I've got a full schedule today. A couple of us are doing a drive tomorrow, maybe in the afternoon or one evening after work. I'll have to contact the guy and see if the car is still available. I appreciate the offer.

NADA lists low retail as $10,500, I checked. I wish that were the going rate.


Yea the values are all ove the place. In all honesty I wouldn't sell mine for less than 20K. I've got a boatload of cash in it. But I have to say I never get tired of driving the M5. :buttrock

If good ones were that cheap, I wouldn't be driving a 540/6.:)

here is what the Black Book value says for an 1991 M5:
Clean book= low milage+very good condition+no issues= $7650
Average Book= $5450
Rough Book= high miles+some damage=$4450

Black Book is the dealer auction selling price of these cars, so M5 owners, please don't get mad at me for adding this. I know they sell for more and they are deffinetly valued at a lot more, but you should be able to buy these cars for this price+$1000/$2000 more.

My 2c
Mihai
1990 535i

here is what the Black Book value says for an 1991 M5:
Clean book= low milage+very good condition+no issues= $7650
Average Book= $5450
Rough Book= high miles+some damage=$4450
Black Book is the dealer auction selling price of these cars, so M5 owners, please don't get mad at me for adding this. I know they sell for more and they are deffinetly valued at a lot more, but you should be able to buy these cars for this price+$1000/$2000 more.
My 2c
Mihai
1990 535i

I got my '94 540 Salvage for $6k. There's no way that a mint M5 should only go for $7650. :cool

if you bought that 540 in the past 3 years and if it has close to 100K miles, you overpaid.
All I am saying by listing these auction prices is that these are the prices that a dealer would pay to purchase them!

if you bought that 540 in the past 3 years and if it has close to 100K miles, you overpaid.
All I am saying by listing these auction prices is that these are the prices that a dealer would pay to purchase them!

For this discussion and most purchases in general your figures are not relevant. Few of us buy at dealer auctions, so the going rate of cars there is pointless. We buy private party or from dealers. Also the number of '91 M5's that end up in dealer auctions to set the market price is a very small sample. In fact I would guess that the few cars that did show-up in an auction were such poor examples that it is almost pointless. These cars are very desirable and if the car is the least bit servicable it will be purchased before auction.

For this discussion and most purchases in general your figures are not relevant. Few of us buy at dealer auctions, so the going rate of cars there is pointless. We buy private party or from dealers. Also the number of '91 M5's that end up in dealer auctions to set the market price is a very small sample. In fact I would guess that the few cars that did show-up in an auction were such poor examples that it is almost pointless. These cars are very desirable and if the car is the least bit servicable it will be purchased before auction.

But you also have to understand me, that once you're in this business and see what the "real" prices are, it's pretty hard to put money in someone else's pocket, especially when you know how much they paid for it. And not to mention that me, personnaly, am always looking for a bargain :)

But you also have to understand me, that once you're in this business and see what the "real" prices are, it's pretty hard to put money in someone else's pocket, especially when you know how much they paid for it. And not to mention that me, personnaly, am always looking for a bargain :)

I've sold cars too. Everyone knows the dealer pays less than the customer, it's not a big secret. That is not what this discussion is about. This car is for sale by a private party, it will never see a dealer. And your figure about what M5's sell for at auction doesn't matter. If you think 9k is too much for car, so noted and thank-you, I will consider your opinion.

I've sold cars too. Everyone knows the dealer pays less than the customer, it's not a big secret. That is not what this discussion is about. This car is for sale by a private party, it will never see a dealer. And your figure about what M5's sell for at auction doesn't matter. If you think 9k is too much for car, so noted and thank-you, I will consider your opinion.

if the car has good service history, it is worth the $9000. Otherwise, we all know that the e34 M5 needs major $$$ to be spent on, especially with that kind of milage.

here is what the Black Book value says for an 1991 M5:
Clean book= low milage+very good condition+no issues= $7650



And I'm sure plenty of them get snagged up at that price.:rolleyes

And I'm sure plenty of them get snagged up at that price.:rolleyes
Sign me up for 3 or 4...:redspot

I'll sell mine for 20K and not a penny less.
And that's a helluva deal since I've probably got 30 into it.

here is what the Black Book value says for an 1991 M5:
Clean book= low milage+very good condition+no issues= $7650
Average Book= $5450
Rough Book= high miles+some damage=$4450
Black Book is the dealer auction selling price of these cars, so M5 owners, please don't get mad at me for adding this. I know they sell for more and they are deffinetly valued at a lot more, but you should be able to buy these cars for this price+$1000/$2000 more.
My 2c
Mihai
1990 535i

And you can find good condition M5s at dealer auctions where? Hell, for that kind of price you could buy them, mark them up $2-3k and sell them on here in an hour or less. Come on, let's be realistic. I've been to large dealer auctions, as my grandfather is a car dealer, and even with 15 lanes going 99.9% of the cars are program cars like Malibus and Camrys. That may be what it says in your book, but good luck finding one. Normal book values are horribly off for collector cars, it was the same when I had Porsches. Cars are worth what the market will pay, therefore the odds of somebody trading in their E34 M5 at the local Ford dealership for $5k are pretty slim.

And you can find good condition M5s at dealer auctions where? Hell, for that kind of price you could buy them, mark them up $2-3k and sell them on here in an hour or less. Come on, let's be realistic. I've been to large dealer auctions, as my grandfather is a car dealer, and even with 15 lanes going 99.9% of the cars are program cars like Malibus and Camrys. That may be what it says in your book, but good luck finding one. Normal book values are horribly off for collector cars, it was the same when I had Porsches. Cars are worth what the market will pay, therefore the odds of somebody trading in their E34 M5 at the local Ford dealership for $5k are pretty slim.

which is not what I tried to do!

You can find these cars at the right auction(special auctions on special dates), but you deffinetly have to be lucky and go on the right date.
Let me make this clear: I do work for a dealer but I don't go to auctions too often, so I can say that I have only seen one E34 M5 for sale there. I wish I can go more often and buy one for myself.
I know we all love our E34's, but be realistic: not everyone is as fanatic as most of us here, and they will trade the E34 M5 at almost any dealer, so that car will end up at an auction!

Just as you said though, they are very few and far between. Another point, by this time an E34 M5 isn't going to be purchased by just anybody, most of the time it will be an enthusiast that knows what he's buying, further reducing the chances of finding one at auction. The posers have all moved on to the newer looking E39s as they drop in price. I'm sure you had good intentions, but it's just not realistic. Collector cars are very hard to track values on, especially by NADA or similar, who don't take the time to do the proper research on the relatively few sales and prices. Excellence, the Porsche magazine, was one of the closest that I've ever seen, they did market updates for specific models based on actual sale information, and were pretty accurate. It's the same thing, look up a '87 911 Carrera in a typical dealer book. Odds are it will be slightly more than an '86, but good luck finding one. '87 was when they upgraded to the greatly improved G50 transmission and hydraulic clutch, making '87 on far more expensive. Just an example.

agree w. you on the first part w. the E34 M5. ;)

It's the same thing, look up a '87 911 Carrera in a typical dealer book. Odds are it will be slightly more than an '86, but good luck finding one. '87 was when they upgraded to the greatly improved G50 transmission and hydraulic clutch, making '87 on far more expensive. Just an example.

Yea but the real enthusiasts know that the 84-86 are better since they HAVE the older tranny.

What do you mean, the 915 sucks. I never heard of anyone that actually preferred it. Some people even go to the trouble of swapping the G50 and hydraulic clutch into an older car, not an easy project.

I prefer it. It's easy to work on, parts are cheap, install a short shift and life is good. Racer's actually prefer them because of their simplicity and longevity.
It's a great gearbox. G50's are a bitch. Try doing a DIY clutch on one of those, not to mention the $'s.

Totally agreed with that, they're pretty damn tough boxes, even stock. Supposedly with a WEVO shift kit they're much more precise. Never messed first hand with one, so I can't comment on that, but I know the 901 on my 911T was very simple. The joy of mechanical clutches.

So now I understand that aution price for my car is about 1/3 what I would sell for. Gee, I guess I'll go sell at auction considering I couldn't even get an engine for that price. This based on 1 car being sold at auction.

Finally got in touch with kid selling the car. The SLS sytem is displaying a fault and needs work.

Finally got in touch with kid selling the car. The SLS sytem is displaying a fault and needs work.

My buddy and I drove this car last week. M5s sound awesome! The stock exhaust note is sick. The exterior is in awesome shape, but the interior is not. The seats are pretty cracked and the back door panels are both gone for some reason. The car rides well, though. The thing is, I got a totally different feeling from being inside this car than in my E34. Something about the Ms...;)

The kid posted some more pictures and showed the door panels. Not quite sure what's up with them. But you're right, it seems kind of rough on the inside. That SLS fault he discloses just about does me in. I would almost be getting over my head as it was, and that could really bury me.

The kid posted some more pictures and showed the door panels. Not quite sure what's up with them. But you're right, it seems kind of rough on the inside. That SLS fault he discloses just about does me in. I would almost be getting over my head as it was, and that could really bury me.

What is SLS anyway?

Self Leveling Suspension

Don't worry about the SLS. That crap gets taken out anyway for a proper sport suspension. Interior is no big deal either, www.euromcars.com can set you up with a interior. Main thing is engine, tranny, body. No accidents is good. That other stuff is all fixable or mod-able. Make a rediculous offer???

Call him back, tell him it'll be big bucks to have the SLS repaired, new door panels, etc, and make him a lowball offer like Mblaster said. If you have the cash and can get it cheap, even if you don't want it I'm sure you could turn it on here and make quite a bit. If I had the cash to spare, that's what I'd do. I'm only two hours away too......what are kidneys going for nowadays?

Call him back, tell him it'll be big bucks to have the SLS repaired, new door panels, etc, and make him a lowball offer like Mblaster said. If you have the cash and can get it cheap, even if you don't want it I'm sure you could turn it on here and make quite a bit. If I had the cash to spare, that's what I'd do. I'm only two hours away too......what are kidneys going for nowadays?

Good call. Strip the interior and race...:cool

Good call. Strip the interior and race...:cool


Now you are thinking!!

Don't worry about the SLS. That crap gets taken out anyway for a proper sport suspension.

Do you have a link to some detail on this? You guys are killing me. I would love to have one these cars so bad. I know upkeep would be much more than I've been getting by with. The car would be my daily driver, so it has reliable and available. I've got to get over and see it when this kid gets of school.

I'm sure somebody that knows will chime in, but I know that many remove the heavy and complicated load leveling system for a more conventional suspension set up. Not sure what though. Seriously, go look at the damn thing, if it runs well it's a bargain. Even if you decide you don't want it, you can make money re-selling it, you can't lose! I have the feeling though, if you buy it, you won't want to part with it.:)

I was reading the Dinan site and they offer two approaches. One system that maintains the SLS system and another that removes it and uses conventional shocks and springs. So I am guessing people use springs and shocks for a similar year 5 series.

Removing the SLS is simple. SLS removal kits are sold by most places like BMA, or Bav Auto. Removing the SLS makes the car a basic spring and shock ride. Which is easire and cheaper to deal with and gives you many choices for aftermarket suspension setups. If it will fit a 535 it will fit the M5 w/ SLS removed. Most guys don't fix leaky SLS shocks unless they have to keep the car stock for posterity.

The SLS warning is triggered buy a switch on the right hand trailing arm. It is possible the switch is broken. If there are no leaks on the shocks and ride height is correct this could be the problem. The switch gets activated buy a low height and signifies wrong rear wheel camber. If you lower the car you will get the same out of camber but the stock suspensions don't have the warning switch. If the SLS was removed and the car lowered it is possible that the kid dinot bypass the switch.

From the "utes" e-mail, "the only known problem with the car is the SLS needs to be looked at. It might just be that it needs an accumulator replaced, or it may just need a new shock. (common problems for these cars)

I'm guessing it needs both and he knows it because it had somewhere for service and that is what they told him and the price scared the crap out of him. And that's OK. I'm waiting for him to get out school and check his e-mail to get his phone so I can go look at it.

Chanting: BUY IT, BUY IT, BUY IT, BUY IT, BUY IT, BUY IT, BUY IT...........:)

I love trying to corrupt the pocketbooks of others.

Chanting: BUY IT, BUY IT, BUY IT, BUY IT, BUY IT, BUY IT, BUY IT...........:)

I love trying to corrupt the pocketbooks of others.


....I think I'm getting help that I don't need........

Chanting: BUY IT, BUY IT, BUY IT, BUY IT, BUY IT, BUY IT, BUY IT...........:)

I love trying to corrupt the pocketbooks of others.

Why don't you buy it, chief? :cool

Why don't you buy it, chief? :cool

Did you keep that kid's phone number?

Why don't you buy it, chief? :cool
College + family = no money, or I'd be all over it.

It's hard to know without looking under the car but it looks to be riding real low in back, high in front. That tells me the car is stock with probably a leak in either the shocks or actuator.

It's hard to know without looking under the car but it looks to be riding real low in back, high in front. That tells me the car is stock with probably a leak in either the shocks or actuator.

He said some of the suspension components were ready to be replaced.

Did you keep that kid's phone number?

My buddy was the one looking at the car, so no, I don't have it. The ad is probably in the paper though.

First I wanted to thank you guys for answering my questions and coaxing me along. I thought the deal was mostly dead. I was going to need to borrow some money to make it work. I would need to sell my car to pay back part of the front moeny to get the M5 and that fell through. So I thought about your guys advise and low-ball him. I offered to trade my car straight up for the M5. I talked up the 28 mpg and 87 octane gas, lower maintence, insurance, etc, how that would be better for a high school kid. He sent me a note back saying he was going to talk to his dad about, he might be interested.

We'll see, I bet dad shoots that deal down.

That would be an epic bargain. E36 318 for an E34 M5. Awesome. Hopefully it works out.

That would be an epic bargain. E36 318 for an E34 M5. Awesome. Hopefully it works out.


I think I would quickly acheive some legendary e-baller bf.c status if I pull this off. I'm not holding my breath through. Maybe his dad drinks alot......

I think I would quickly acheive some legendary e-baller bf.c status if I pull this off. I'm not holding my breath through. Maybe his dad drinks alot......

He's a tight kid who's got a good head on his shoulders from what I've seen. Maybe he'll go for it....

Pulling for you.

I think I would quickly acheive some legendary e-baller bf.c status if I pull this off. I'm not holding my breath through. Maybe his dad drinks alot......

At the very least, you would be my hero for the day. Think he'd go for my 540/6?:D

He might. It certainly would be a more obvious trade. It wouldn't help him out at the gas pump though.

I would definitely go for it, then dump the SLS. My dad paid 16K for his 91 M and the thing is pristine (and stock as shit).

Oh believe me if the kids says yes I'll trade. Agree with SLS, it will go. I can some springs and shocks for about $400. I haven't looked into the SLS delete kit yet.

Oh believe me if the kids says yes I'll trade. Agree with SLS, it will go. I can some springs and shocks for about $400. I haven't looked into the SLS delete kit yet.

Yea and it's no big hurry to mod the suspension. Unless it's pissing power steering fluid all over the place the SLS can wait. Delete kits are cheap too.

Nah, it was more a joke than anything. My wife would kill me, she's sick of me trading cars (4 in two years). Plus, I don't have the spare time, cash, or decent garage space to take care of any issues that it has. That said, damn I'd love to!