Ok, time to buy new R-compounds. What is the difference between the 2 types of Khumos? (Ecsta V700 Vs. Victorracer V700) Is one a newer compound and better? I have noticed that the sizes are slightly different also.

So which one is the better tire?

Thanks,
:wave:

the first gen ecsta v700's are the same compound as the victoracers. they are a different tread pattern and come in a 235/40/17. the ecsta's are supposed to be a new compound, but i would call tire rack and ask. they work pretty good for auto-xing. i have beaten some m3 drivers who use hoosiers with them.

What size do you run?? If you run the size that let you us the ecsta then I would go with that. Even if the compound is the same at least the ecsta is lighter. BTW the new compund is very good.

Are you coming to Nationals? With all the 1st places you have you should do good.

THanks for the input. Unfortunately I will be in England for 2 weeks on Holiday during Nationals in Topeka. My car is not completey set up to tackle National competition yet. I do well within my region but I am still setting it up for the National level, plus this is only my second year auto-xing and I need the seat time. Next year I plan on doing more National level competition.

Vic, I saw you have your BSP dominating 240z up for sale, what are you running at nationals?


btw, I am debatiing about tire size, I guess 235/40/17 if I go for the ecsta's, or the wider but taller 245/45/17 victo's. (Please correct me if I am wrong) I want to keep the diameter as small as posible so I will probably go with the 235/40/17 ecsta's.

Cheers,
Matt

I probably won't use Ecstas again. Check the archives on track tires. . . there's a thread on these, and many, including myself, have experienced what is known as GOD (the Groove of Doom), similar to what folks used to get with the BFG's.

The rap on these tires is that Kumho screwed the pooch on the carcass design. Way too much flex along the contact patch, causing a portion of the tread to be exposed as a high point, leading to the GOD.

Bimmerworld and a bunch of club racers I know suggest Victoracers, or better yet, Toyo RA1's as a better tire, both in shaved form. I'll use shaved Toyos next.

I saw the threads earlier about G.O.D., however, I am using these tires for auto-x only, no track time so I do not think high speeds or heat will be an issue. Am I correct on this? I have not heard of any issues from the auto-x people.

A local Autoxer and national level competitor here in Austin has had similar problems. Shoot a not to Billk for the full skinny.

i have a little groove on all of my kumhos and i've been auto-xing on them since may. at least 6 auto-x's and 1 auto-x school. they'll hold up fine for auto-x. i know someone who runs the toyo's for auto-x and he says they are ok, but he will try kumhos next.

Just a sidenote on the Toyos. Some people have given them mediocre reviews. Usually those reviews come from folks that ran them unshaved. At 8/32's, they really need to be shaved for serious use.

Those folks that I've talked to that ran them shaved generally spoke very highly of them. I'll run them this fall.

I've been told by several racer types to only run shaved R-compounds,especially with heavy street cars. I'll try the Ecsta V700 again, but shaved this time.


///badmonkey

Hmmmm, now I am not sure what to buy. I wanted the Ecsta's because I liked the smalled diameter with the 235/40/17's, but the victo's only come in 245/45/17's from what I understand. If only I could afford the Hoosiers, this would not be a problem because I could run 245/40/17's.

Guess I have some thinking and researching to do :az: :az:

Originally posted by ///Mracer


Vic, I saw you have your BSP dominating 240z up for sale, what are you running at nationals?


btw, I am debatiing about tire size, I guess 235/40/17 if I go for the ecsta's, or the wider but taller 245/45/17 victo's. (Please correct me if I am wrong) I want to keep the diameter as small as posible so I will probably go with the 235/40/17 ecsta's.

Cheers,
Matt

I will be driving Jim Ochi's (JimO.) 96' M3 In Street Modified. I would go with the 245's over the 235's.

As far as the GOD goes. I was running the 285/30-18 Ecsta's on 10" wide wheels with no problems. But I was getting them shaved to 4/32. We had those in a 2001 M3 and that car is not that light, also the owner of the M3 would do open track events with out a problem.

I talk to the Kumho Motorsport Engineer a lot. We talked about this issue and he told me that the unshaved tires will be more suseptible to having that problem, but there are other factor too. But most of the problems have been on Track cars.

Originally posted by ///Mracer


Vic, I saw you have your BSP dominating 240z up for sale, what are you running at nationals?


btw, I am debatiing about tire size, I guess 235/40/17 if I go for the ecsta's, or the wider but taller 245/45/17 victo's. (Please correct me if I am wrong) I want to keep the diameter as small as posible so I will probably go with the 235/40/17 ecsta's.

Cheers,
Matt

I will be driving Jim Ochi's (JimO.) 96' M3 In Street Modified. I would go with the 245's over the 235's.

As far as the GOD goes. I was running the 285/30-18 Ecsta's on 10" wide wheels with no problems. But I was getting them shaved to 4/32. We had those in a 2001 M3 and that car is not that light, also the owner of the M3 would do open track events with out a problem.

I talk to the Kumho Motorsport Engineer a lot. We talked about this issue and he told me that the unshaved tires will be more suseptible to having that problem, but there are other factor too. But most of the problems have been on Track cars.

Originally posted by ///Mracer
btw, I am debatiing about tire size, I guess 235/40/17 if I go for the ecsta's, or the wider but taller 245/45/17 victo's. (Please correct me if I am wrong) I want to keep the diameter as small as posible so I will probably go with the 235/40/17 ecsta's.

I'd suggest taking a look at the actual measurements of the R tires that you are considering - don't go by the nominal sizes. I'd also suggest skipping the 245/45-17 Victoracers, and going to the 255/40-17's instead, if you have room in your wheelwells to fit them....

Jim

Originally posted by frayed
Just a sidenote on the Toyos. Some people have given them mediocre reviews. Usually those reviews come from folks that ran them unshaved. At 8/32's, they really need to be shaved for serious use.

Those folks that I've talked to that ran them shaved generally spoke very highly of them. I'll run them this fall.

Having run a number of R-compound tires over the past few years, I've yet to find a tire to equal the RA1 from Toyo.

It's not the fastest tire out there; the new Ecsta V700 has more grip, but significantly less life.

The Hoosier has significantly more grip as well, but I could only get 6-7 full track days out of a set (about 2-3 hours per day).

With the Toyo's, I'm getting about 14-15 full days out of them. The Kumho V700s (Ecsta, I haven't run the Victoracer...) I've tossed after a single weekend (this on a fully race prepped car....).

The Kumho's did offer better grip than the Toyo, but being of sound, financial mind, I went back to the Toyo's. I had corded two Kumho's in 3 days of track driving....with 3.0 degrees of negative camber all around.

My Toyo's wear flat across them, and I rarely have to flip tires on the rim to even out wear.

I run my Toyo's full depth, rather than shaved, but this is done for $$$ reasons, not traction issues.

As well, I run Toyo RA1s as my *wet* tires as well (full depth), and just cycle those into the mix as I cord / replace my *dry* tires...


Pat

Where do you guys get your RA1's? Unfortunately, TireRack doesn't seem to carry them.

Chris

Out your way I'd try www.aimtire.com. They're near Sears Point.

Otherwise try Vilven Tire 888-775-8646 or
Appalachian Race Tire (TN) www.racetire.com

All three are racers and good guys.

Steve

Hey Steve, good to hear from yah.

Just an FYI, I was quoted $190 shaved and delivered for 255/40-17 from Vilven. That's pretty good, about 30 more than shaved, delivered 255 Victoracers.

There's been a lot of discussion on shaving lately. Vilven strongly recommends a shaved set for track use, especially if you have a stock-ish weight car. Many report you'll get at least equivalent wear from a shaved set due to less heat generation from tread squirm, and more consistent performance over the life of the tire. Toyos come with a lot of tread, I believe 8/32's, which contributes to the excessive squirm. Further, some folks that have used both in club racing report that shaved toyos at least equal if not better the grip of shaved kumhos.

Hey Jeff,

Been real busy lately and just been in and out.

Vilven Tire are a great bunch of guys and have very competitive pricing and service. I should of picked up on everyone running unshaved in the earlier discussion. I don't doubt that may be a factor. The Ecsta's have a more pronounced tread pattern and will definitely produce higher heat and funky wear due to squirm. I also suspect there is something else going on related to construction that isn't being relayed.

RE the Toyo's, I think I related to you my experiences with them as being positive. I've only run enduros on a light car (Miata)and they were pretty decent. Very consistant down to the cord. Slower than K's or H's but very forgiving and wear like a mofo. Definitely shave them unless you need rains. I don't think they'd hold up to long dry runs any better than the others and will probably last longer shaved for the reasons you listed above.

Read about your near miss. Scary shiot. Is there a cage in your future?

Steve

Steve,

Yeah, going off at near 100 mph is pretty scary. I need a cage. Should have one, but a cage = track car so I'm reluctant. Maybe get a dedicated track car like an already built spec Miata or something that's cheap to buy and maintain.

On tire shaving, I found out *after* I got the Kumhos that I should have had them shaved. Heat cycling didnt do squat, and even with -3 degrees of camber, I got crazy wear. I'll likely run any tires I get shaved.

I won't be back to the track until November most likely, as the next few months are busy for me. But, when I go, I'll be able to do a side by side comparo of RA1's vs. V700's.