when i'm at my local track, i have this corner which i always lose time on. I'm in 4th going about 100 and need to make a right 90 degree+ turn, i ususally brake hard and shift to third then second. This sounds obvious but should i go directly to second? Instructors there i talked to recomend a bunch of different techniques.

You can do it either way, it shouldn't really affect how quickly you go through the turn.

If you are moving at 100 and have to slow enough to use 2nd gear, your braking zone should be PLENTY long to accomplish two downshifts. A good downshift can be done in under a second. I'd say do whatever feels comfortable, but don't expect to gain any time by skipping third.

Are you talking turn 14? You actually downshift to 2nd? Best thing is brake hard go into 3rd gear and keep it there. If you late apex you'll get enough momentum to stay on 3rd heading towards the straightaway. Regards. Mike

Originally posted by norman
when i'm at my local track, i have this corner which i always lose time on. I'm in 4th going about 100 and need to make a right 90 degree+ turn,

Turn 14 at Thunderhill? 3rd gear corner in an E36 M3. The only place I used 2nd there is Turn 11 (left-hander just before the "esses").

Jim

i've tried it both ways, 2nd and 3rd gear.:redspot

I can't imagine going down to 2nd, turn 1 at Watkins Glen is a 90 degree turn and I keep it in 3rd.

Know the turn # by heart, track junkie?:D THe instructors there suggest trying both ways to see which i like better. one guy said use "real late apex", sacrifice some early and use 2nd gear to power out onto the front straight, as oppose to staying in 3rd the whole way thru.
Then how about that off camber right(turn 3?), i know the "textbook line", is there a better line going thru there?
These 2 for me are the hardest for me.

Turn 3-before turn stay in middle,brake then stay entirely on right side using throttle steer. That's something worth trying and it's fun to slide the back end while throttle steering plus it's predictable and controllable which can be done as well on turn 2. My 2 cents. Mike

Originally posted by norman
Know the turn # by heart, track junkie?:D

I know the whole TRACK by heart :) 30+ days there will do that.

THe instructors there suggest trying both ways to see which i like better. one guy said use "real late apex", sacrifice some early and use 2nd gear to power out onto the front straight, as oppose to staying in 3rd the whole way thru.

Question: what kind of car does the instructor drive? Trust me, if you're using 2nd at Turn 14 in an E36 M3, you went in too slow. 3rd gear all the way around 14 & 15 and onto the front straight.

Then how about that off camber right(turn 3?), i know the "textbook line", is there a better line going thru there?
These 2 for me are the hardest for me.

I haven't quite figured that one out either. The quickest seems to be to enter Turn 3 2/3-to-3/4 to the left and balance the car around to the apex. I find that the car is stable and not too loaded in preparation for Turn 4. I've also run the tight inside line. It's less off-camber, but is slower, and I felt the car was too loaded to the left to make a smooth transistion to Turn 4.

My 2 cents,
Jim

Jim
like u said on turn 3, i've tried left of center, center, and tight right going thru, still havent fully got comfortable.
the instructor drives a Neon of all cars, and he was flying thru turn 14 barely braking, he said his car is lighter and he can do that but with my M3,i need to slow down more so he suggested 2nd gear and give it a try. but i think i carry more speed thru 14 with 3rd but plowing alittle more. Oh well, at least i can go agian and practice more next time.:clap:

Originally posted by norman
Jim
like u said on turn 3, i've tried left of center, center, and tight right going thru, still havent fully got comfortable.

Ah, I see, I misunderstood.

Turn 3 is an UNcomfortable turn. Period. End of discussion :)

What you want to do is find a way through there as quickly as possible, and set up well for Turn 4. I've found that to be the "enter on the left, get straight at the apex" method. YMMV, of course.

But if you're looking for "comfort", look elsewhere :D

Jim

i was there in July and they actually set up cones on the left at turn 3 preventing people from plowing into the dirt. Thunderhill has an event next month where they go backwards, havent done that, it should be interesting.:confused:

My car has less cornering ability and less low rpm punch then your car and I NEVER have even considered second. When I was slower, and even now, the engine is off its powerband but I am determined to get the engine in its sweet spot with more speed in the corner. I have also noticed that between 14 and 15, if you briefly unwind the wheel (instead of driving it like a big arc) you can grab a few more rpms prior to the straightaway. I think I was hitting 80-85 on exit depending on how well I did it.

That is one of the corners I really want to work on. I think I am way too slow on entry to 14 and it is not a real high risk area to try to pick up some speed.

the few times when i follow the instructor's car(his line)at 14, i was able make out of the corner very well in 3rd and on to the front straight. but often times i tend to brake too much and lose time coming out of there. the instructors there that day was trying to get us to experiment with different lines and techniques, just to see what works better for our cars.