M42 Project started! (S42 Replica)

[Gizmo330iT]

Well, I have finally started my project to build a replica S42B20 motor.

I pulled my 318i into the garage on monday and removed and stripped the M42B18 down to its bare components. Afew months back I got hold of a M44 sub-assembly and started by stripping it down and cleaning it up. I had it bored out from 85mm std to 86mm to fit Euro M3 3.0lt pistons.

At this stage I was going to use the M44 crank which had an 83.5mm stroke but found out that a M47 (E46 320d) crank might fit, it did. Now I have an 88mm stroke. The nice thing about the M47 crank is it has the same dia. big-ends and main bearings as the M42/M44. And its a forged crank! With the 86mm bore and 88mm stroke its now a 2045cc motor (nearly a 2.1lt). With M3 3.2lt pistons it would be a 2069cc. I am using the M44 rods for the job, the pistons are being decked and pocketed this week, this will make 'em flat-top and raise the compression some too.

Once I get everything back from the engineers I will have the whole bottom-end fully balanced and look into that stupid harmonic damper...
I got some quotes today for Euro M3 throttle bodies and will get a set of 6 next week which will cost me R2500=$375. I will remove the two center ITBs and I will be using the 300cc M3 injectors and the Euro M3 plenum chamber but cut off the two ends to make it work with the 4 ITBs.

As for the head, I will buy another M42 head at a later stage and fit M3 3.2lt 35mm intake valves, cut them 3-angle along with the 30mm exhaust valves. Gas-flow the head and finish off with a nice polishing and a skimming to raise the compression even more. I will fit the solid lifters from the Euro M3 too so I can rev it over 7500rpm. I have only found one set of cams that I can use which are made by Schrick. They have a 256 duration and a 10.4mm lift, I think they will be a little small for what I want. Can someone point me in another direction??? Custom cams or some other company makes M42 cams already?

The exhaust system I have should be alright for now, Im using the M42 manifold coupled to a custom 57mm s/s freeflow system with twin staggered chrome tips. I will change the tips to a single smallish chrome tip to give it a sleeper look, hehe. When I get the other cyl head done I will get some custom 48mm exhaust headers made up.

As for the management, I will be using the std Bosch DME with a Dastek unichip. I could look into a stand alone system at a later stage but its not that neccesary for a normally aspirated car. The guys at www.kempower.be manage 315hp out of a normally aspirated S42B20 with the Bosch DME so it should be good enough for me...

[Kos-motate139]

Well, as one of the few M42s racing in the US, I've got to say good luck! I'll have my engine out this winter in favor of an I6, however, I'll have the M42 sitting in the garage waiting for upgrades...and potential future deployment.

:buttrock :cool :D

[Gizmo330iT]

I will keep this thread up to date with the progress and post lots of pics. I know you M42 guys have been waiting a while for this kinda thread to come along. VIVA LA M42 CLUB!!!:buttrock

Here's a little teaser of an S42B20
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/gizmo316i/misc/105bmw_318_compact_delage_sport_20_.jpg

[QuiickSilverM3]

did bmw develop that motor in germany as a street motor? or a race motor?

[norcalbmw]

wow.. hope everything turns out fine
and good luck

[jiggynites]

wow man yes keep us posted should be very interesting and maybe others can follow your steps. omg honda guys build the 1.8 n/a motor to well over 200 whp all the time with cams pistons ect. and tune, why cant the bmw guys do the same. i mean hey they have a choice to get the bigger 2.2(prelude)motor too like us getting the 2.5 but they choose to built the 1.8 instead.

[e36]

yo. i want all of that!!!!!

300+ outta a 4banger. thats insaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnee...

i would love to take on a project like that. hope it all goes well

mike

[JedzE36/5]

its about time someone has actually gone forward with this! good luck!

[Slynke]

I love you.. marry me when you are done so I can divorce your ass and take that ride as part of the settlement.

[Gizmo330iT]

did bmw develop that motor in germany as a street motor? or a race motor? It was built for the E36 touring cars after they stopped using the FIA 2.0lt S14. So it was never offered to street cars, a pity though, 'cos imagine the S42B20 in a street car making 315bhp @ 8400rpm and the rev limiter at 8600rpm...

[jiggynites]

one question... how in the world did they get 315bph out of it? isnt that motor 2.0?

[Gizmo330iT]

one question... how in the world did they get 315bph out of it? isnt that motor 2.0?
Yes it was a 2.0lt, it had around 12:1compression, single compression piston rings, slide individual throttle bodies, huge cams, solid lifters, major headwork...ect.

www.kempower.be got the S14 (E30 M3 engine) up to 370bhp with NA tuning...

I found a Euro M3 oil cooler that I will be fitting to the new engine as well, it just clips onto the bottom of the Euro M3 radiator I have already. I will just need to make some custom oil lines for it...

I also drove my dad's E39 M5 tonight and fell in love with the steering feel, its so precise and sharp, now I wanna get a Z3 steering rack for my 318i...

[e36]

are you doing all this wor on ur own or do u have a shop doing it?

mike

[psyyambmw]

I will keep this thread up to date with the progress and post lots of pics. I know you M42 guys have been waiting a while for this kinda thread to come along. VIVA LA M42 CLUB!!!:buttrock
Here's a little teaser of an S42B20
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/gizmo316i/misc/105bmw_318_compact_delage_sport_20_.jpg

:eek: OMG MFK What da hex muscle!!!

Envy U, Man.

[Mitch]

This is going to be really sick. Wow. Keep up the good work.

[Gizmo330iT]

are you doing all this wor on ur own or do u have a shop doing it?
mike

Im doing this myself, wouldn't dare let a shop have all the fun...I have built a few BMW motors before so Im experienced...

Im getting the complete intake system from a euro M3 on monday/pay-day, also at a later stage I will get a Euro 3.2lt M3 6speed gearbox to throw into the mix.

[TrunkImpaired]

Subscribed.

This should be a fun little project to watch.

[AlaskaBlue]

I agree that this should be an awesome build. Best of luck!

[Gizmo330iT]

I stripped the cyl head down today to replace the valve stem seals only to find ALL 8 exhaust valves are bent.:eek: sonofabitch!

I guess I will do the complete head work now, I need 8 Euro M3 35mm intake valves and 8 new 30mm exhaust valves. I will have them cut 3-angle and gasflow the head. $$$$

Now the M3 ITBs will have to wait a while, DAMN!!!

[Mr.M]

Can you get pictures of this? Especially all the broken stuff :P

[Gizmo330iT]

6 of the 8 bent valves, who knows how these things were still sealing...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/gizmo316i/1968249a.jpg

Here are the 3 different cranks, on the left is the M42, M44 in the middle and the M47 on the right. Notice the lack of double counter-weights on the M44 crank...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/gizmo316i/PB010145.jpg

I bought an E34 M5 oil cooler today and bolted it up to my M3 radiator, the radiator is upside down.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/gizmo316i/6c4a9b51.jpg

I also bought Euro M3 injectors today, std 318i injectors are on the top, M3's on the bottom.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/gizmo316i/PB010148.jpg

[zed///M]

can the m3 injectors replace the m42 injectors? sorry im thick when it comes to the engine, wot do they do exactly? and QuiickSilverM3 i love them angel eyes on your beemer they look sick where can i get a set like that from?

cheers

[Tuff Guy]

I love you.

[Panzer_M]

what this project going to cost part wise?

[taseal]

you must be a rich man

[Panzer_M]

eh, BMW parts aren't that expensive if you know where to shop.

[Alpine 318is]

I love you.

i love you too. after your done im coming to see it. i dont care how far away u are

[Panzer_M]

M42 group meet.

[bigbore]

this is going to be good, yesss :eyecrazy

[Gizmo330iT]

I bought 8 2nd hand exhaust valves today for the price of one pirate-part valve. Some bad news is the M3 intake valves are too long...So, I won't do any headwork for now. I just finished grinding the exhaust valves in their seats, what a PITA!!!

I also got the oil temp sensor from a Euro M3 today which I will fit to the oil filter housing and get the Euro M3 instrument cluster with the oil temp gauge to keep tabs on the oil temps. I will take the cluster to someone to have the tach modified to read the 4cyl engine.

As for having alot of money, not true, but I do know where to shop for parts and have made good friends at all the 2nd hand parts dealers. In South Africa BMWs are very popular so the parts shops have extremely competitive pricing...

[nuvola rossa]

Hi Gizmo, this is a great project. I was interested in it but for my knowledge it's too much difficult... so I choose another way: S/Cing with eaton m62. But I think that a eaton+2300cc will be 250-260hp :evil2 I have read that the hartge make a 2.3 L conversion for M44s as mine...
so I have this question:
There are bmw parts that can be used for a 2,3 L conversion or are made specifically from Hartge?
Thank you.
EDIT: stroker kits from Hartge:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/nuvolarossa/host/hartge.jpg

[Gizmo330iT]

Have you got a link to these 2.3lt conversions? I just think that a 99.8mm stroke is way too over square for the M44, it won't like revs...well...then again, the M44 cyl head doesn't like revs either....

[staplesking]

i love you too. after your done im coming to see it. i dont care how far away u are

haha dude he's in south africa!

[328 Power 04]

i hear it's nice there ... hehe wow this car would be amazing with a 315 hp 4 banger N/A

[HoJo]

How much heavier is the M47 crank? There looks to be a lot more material in the counterweights.

[943184dr]

gizmo, how did you get that m47 crank, i would love to get my hands on a couple. Awesome project, your car should absolutly FLY!! with that motor and a 6speed. all you would need with that is some 3.64 gears. Have you figured out anything with the harmonic balancer?


Thanks
Tom

[thedude]

Hey your brave gizmo. Mixing and matching all these parts from other cars and getting them to work together. I would be way to scared to try that. Looks like you have ALOT of experience and tools...

[Justin e36]

sweet project... damn. now I feel like a dolt for spending my money on a 325 engine and turbocharger...

[bennyfizzle]

sweet project... damn. now I feel like a dolt for spending my money on a 325 engine and turbocharger...


ya because that was so much harder...:rolleyes ;)

[Alpine 318is]

haha dude he's in south africa!

guess i need to buy a big boat

[Gizmo330iT]

Holy shit guys, I got my pistons back from the engineers and I cc'ed my cyl head, I will be running 12:1 compression!!! This motor is going to have insane torque!!! Good thing I have two knock sensors...Plus my buddy has a hardware that supplies toluene...guess I will run toluene mixes quite often...

[ts295]

this is a truly amazing project. I love it! never seen anything like this over here in the uk. Please tell me more about the M47 crank. Does it go straight in? that's a hell of a find...I'd love to put one in my e30 M42 with 86mm pistons! and the euro s50 3l M3 injectors fit the m42 head ok?

[Gizmo330iT]

I start the assembly process this weekend, so lots of pics to come. I have just been cleaning up all the engine parts to make it look brand new, I get the bottom end back from the balancing engineers tomorrow so things will be taking shape.

I will run the engine in with the stock cams and stock intake manifold for now. A friend of mine is trying to organise a set of M3 ITB's for free for me so Im just waiting on him to see if he comes through. (fingers crossed)

TS295: Yes, the M47 crank fits right in, same size big ends and mains, same length. The only mod was to turn 0.6mm off the front to fit the pulleys, very simple with a lathe...The M3 injectors fit perfectly in the manifold too.

[happitussi]

Hi Gizmo318i
Are you planning on doing any fuel mapping modifications?

Br. Mikko

[Gizmo330iT]

Today I also made a spacer gasket that goes in between the cyl head and the intake manifold. Its made of a plastic called "dura form", it has a high resistance to heat and has no heat conducting properties. Its 5mm thick and its the exact same shape as the intake manifold gasket.

What it does is it stops the heat transfer from the cyl head to the intake manifold, this keeps your intake at ambient temperatures...

[Gizmo330iT]

Hi Gizmo318i
Are you planning on doing any fuel mapping modifications?

Br. Mikko

The mapping will be done via the piggyback Dastek unichip, coupled with the AFM-to-MAF conversion.

[ts295]

wow, its all coming together! thanks for the reply, look forward to seeing the progress!
Is there any reason you used an 88mm M47 crank over the 90mm M47N? Have you knife-edged it? 12:1 compression ratio will be mad! did you not want to bring that down a little? you're gonna use a custom head gasket i take it?
why m44 rods and not m42?
sorry for all the questions, I'm really intrigued! i'm so impressed at this project, it will be quite something, i think its great that you're doing something quite so unique rather than throwing in an S14 or M50. I wonder how fast it will be when complete!

[ts295]

just looked up m44 and m42 rods and noticed they're the same... answered my own question.

[NHbmw325I]

that is incredible what you are doing, definetely some updated pics plz, and maybe some vids when its all done?

[Gizmo330iT]

I couldn't find a M47N 90mm crank at the 2nd hand parts dealers, so I settled for the 88mm crank. I haven't knife-edged it, just fully balanced the bottom end. The 12:1 comp will be interesting...The E39 M5 has 11,5:1 comp so I don't see it being that serious, my double knock sensors will keep the 12:1 in check.

[Gizmo330iT]

I went to the $tealer and bought an oversize M44 head gasket today to bring the compression down to 11.6:1 for safety reasons, not keen on blowing this motor up any time soon...

DAMN!! The $tealer forgot the KY jelly!!!

[ts295]

11.6:1, cool. what's the bore diameter of the M44 gasket, is it ok with your 86mm pistons?
I take it you haven't had the bottom end back from the machinists yet? bet you can't wait!
how much did the pistons need decking?

[Waxfondlr]

your sir are my new savior..
i wanna hear what this thing sounds like in person when complete..
VIVA m42!!
Bows

[Mr.M]

I less than three you, sir.

[Alpine 318is]

i cant wait for pics

[Gizmo330iT]

11.6:1, cool. what's the bore diameter of the M44 gasket, is it ok with your 86mm pistons?
I take it you haven't had the bottom end back from the machinists yet? bet you can't wait!
how much did the pistons need decking?

The bore diameter of the M42 head gasket is 85mm, the bore diameter of the M44 gasket is 86mm. Yes the M44 gasket works with my 86mm pistons.

You are correct, the engineers are taking longer than I had hoped.

I decked the M3 pistons 3.8mm to get the desired deck height. They were pocketed for the bigger cams and bigger valves which will come later.

[Waxfondlr]

i gotta say man, that all white is the hottest shit ive seen in awhile

[cajunroadster]

Keep up the good work. I've thought about modding my M44 for the last year or so. I'd like to build mine for a DASC application. I'm already getting 11 psi on stock internals, but figured if I could get a higher reving, stronger bottom end, it would be a sweet combination. Thanks for taking the lead and figuring out things for all of the 4 cyl. die hards. Looking forward to seeing and hearing about your progress.

John B.

[Gizmo330iT]

Finally! I spent sat afternoon and most of sunday building the motor and put it in. With no problems besides a noisy power steering pump which I serviced today. Anyway, I took lots of pictures of the build process so I will post them soon. I haven't connected the oil cooler or installed the ITBs or big cams yet. I will do this once the motor is fully run-in.

First impressions, the exhaust tone is alot deeper now, throttle response is friggin' quick and awesome. Im keeping her under 4000rpm and haven't gone WOT yet, THERE'S NO NEED WITH THIS MUCH TORQUE!!!!!! The torque is awesome, a huge improvement from idle to 4000rpm...Feels more than my brother's stock E36 325i...
The idle is deep but stable even with the 300cc M3 injectors and no tuning yet. I just can't wait to get this beast run-in so I can slap the big cams and throttle bodies in....

It feels so good to drive my car again after a month of driving my mom's E39 528i auto, and sometimes my dad's E39 M5...I just forgot how hard my coil-overs were...gotta remember the kidney belt...hehe

I will have the pics up a little later tonight hopefully...

[Mr.M]

Awesome! Congrats on having it running.
:buttrock

[Gizmo330iT]

Keep up the good work. I've thought about modding my M44 for the last year or so. I'd like to build mine for a DASC application. I'm already getting 11 psi on stock internals, but figured if I could get a higher reving, stronger bottom end, it would be a sweet combination. Thanks for taking the lead and figuring out things for all of the 4 cyl. die hards. Looking forward to seeing and hearing about your progress.

John B.

Here's what I see as the ideal bottom end. The M44 block (because it has piston squirters), the M47N 90mm crank, M42 rods (alot stronger than M44 rods, I have some comparison pics) and S50B32 pistons or other forged pistons.

This setup will give you a very strong bottom end with 2115cc.

[Gizmo330iT]

Here's the rods: Left M42, next M44, next M47, last S50
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/gizmo316i/M42/PB190251.jpg

Pistons: Left M42, middle S50 (decked), last STD S50
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/gizmo316i/M42/PB190252.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/gizmo316i/M42/PB190253.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/gizmo316i/M42/PB190254.jpg

Pistons in place: (hehe, fingers crossed)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/gizmo316i/M42/PB190255.jpg

Oil temp sensor tapped into sump:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/gizmo316i/M42/PB190256.jpg

Ready for fitment:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/gizmo316i/M42/PB200260.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/gizmo316i/M42/248bacc7.jpg

[ts295]

wow, well done! i'm gald it's all come together

[Gizmo330iT]

The dura form spacer gasket:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/gizmo316i/M42/PB200262.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/gizmo316i/M42/PB200263.jpg

Finished product:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/gizmo316i/M42/PB210265.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/gizmo316i/M42/PB210267.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/gizmo316i/M42/PB210269.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/gizmo316i/M42/PB210268.jpg

[AlaskaBlue]

Congrats on getting it running. I can't wait until you get it all broken in, tuned, etc, and lay down some dyno numbers. I am itching to build one.

[Gizmo330iT]

Im using my car for work now to get her broken-in quicker. I usually use the company car (which is a piece of sh!t) but not for the next 2 weeks. Im a mobile fitment technitian for a tracking company so I should clock up the miles in no time. Gotta get it done before the tuning shops close for the holidays...

[Panzer_M]

I love the setup. Awesome work.

I had to post this up on CFBMW, to show all the 4 haters there.

[jimbolina]

Amazing work. I'm dying to see the results when you get the new cams, valves etc. I WANT ONE!

[T-Rex]

damn thats awesome. nicely done!

[bigbore]

man, just awesome..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/gizmo316i/M42/248bacc7.jpg
my new wallpaper :eek:

you have given us ridiculously good info, thank you. :thumbup:

:buttrock

[cajunroadster]

Here's what I see as the ideal bottom end. The M44 block (because it has piston squirters), the M47N 90mm crank, M42 rods (alot stronger than M44 rods, I have some comparison pics) and S50B32 pistons or other forged pistons.

This setup will give you a very strong bottom end with 2115cc.

I believe the stock M44 runs a compression ration of 10:1, and it's been suggested that a supercharged engine should run 8.5:1. Do you think I would still be able to get there using these parts, and not using an extra thick head gasket? I don't know everything about this, but I understand, there is a squish factor to be considered at the top of the stroke, and modifying the gap with gaskets, may not be the best way to go.

Thanks for reply, and keep us posted on your progress as the project moves along.

John B.

[Gizmo330iT]

I believe the stock M44 runs a compression ration of 10:1, and it's been suggested that a supercharged engine should run 8.5:1. Do you think I would still be able to get there using these parts, and not using an extra thick head gasket? I don't know everything about this, but I understand, there is a squish factor to be considered at the top of the stroke, and modifying the gap with gaskets, may not be the best way to go.

Thanks for reply, and keep us posted on your progress as the project moves along.

John B.
You are correct, the M44 does have 10:1 compression. Guys who run 8,5:1 compression boost high numbers with centrifugal superchargers, you have a Eaton M62 roots-type positive displacement supercharger which doesn't like to be over-revved to make higher boost numbers, the thermal efficiency drops quickly and robs you of power. Eventually the coating on the impellers flake off and the S/C is stuffed...

If you are building a custom s/c setup designed to boost high then go down to 8,5:1 compression. Raima on this forum has built a custom M42 S/C setup that producing big numbers, send him a PM.

Other ways to drop the compression with that ideal setup is to offset the small-end bearing, making the rod shorter. The difference between 12:1 compression and 11,6:1 compression was the thicker gasket was 0,3mm thicker than the std gasket, this just shows you how small a difference can change the compression. You could also deck the pistons a little lower to bring the CR ratio down.

[T-Rex]

You are correct, the M44 does have 10:1 compression. Guys who run 8,5:1 compression boost high numbers with centrifugal superchargers, you have a Eaton M62 roots-type positive displacement supercharger which doesn't like to be over-revved to make higher boost numbers, the thermal efficiency drops quickly and robs you of power. Eventually the coating on the impellers flake off and the S/C is stuffed...

If you are building a custom s/c setup designed to boost high then go down to 8,5:1 compression. Raima on this forum has built a custom M42 S/C setup that producing big numbers, send him a PM.

Other ways to drop the compression with that ideal setup is to offset the small-end bearing, making the rod shorter. The difference between 12:1 compression and 11,6:1 compression was the thicker gasket was 0,3mm thicker than the std gasket, this just shows you how small a difference can change the compression. You could also deck the pistons a little lower to bring the CR ratio down.
I propose that you and 94318i4dr share the title of "BMW M4x 4 cylinder guru", he's the turbo specialist, and you build NA monsters :evil2

[ts295]

gizmo, whats the piston-deck clearance on a stock M42/M44? thanks for your help, you've been an awesome source of knowledge!
i think i'd like to do something similar to what you've done, would ideally like to run a slightly lower CR tho.

[cajunroadster]

You are correct, the M44 does have 10:1 compression. Guys who run 8,5:1 compression boost high numbers with centrifugal superchargers, you have a Eaton M62 roots-type positive displacement supercharger which doesn't like to be over-revved to make higher boost numbers, the thermal efficiency drops quickly and robs you of power. Eventually the coating on the impellers flake off and the S/C is stuffed...

If you are building a custom s/c setup designed to boost high then go down to 8,5:1 compression. Raima on this forum has built a custom M42 S/C setup that producing big numbers, send him a PM.

Other ways to drop the compression with that ideal setup is to offset the small-end bearing, making the rod shorter. The difference between 12:1 compression and 11,6:1 compression was the thicker gasket was 0,3mm thicker than the std gasket, this just shows you how small a difference can change the compression. You could also deck the pistons a little lower to bring the CR ratio down.
Thanks for the info. I PMed him. I'll work on getting some specs together for my build. I may be back in touch.

John B.

[sparkchaser]

That is amazing dude. Great work!

[SA E30]

Hey Giz, car is lookin great, next time I see u must take me for a spin, see how it feels.

BTW, why is the small end on the M47 so much bigger than M44 and M42. ?

[Gizmo330iT]

gizmo, whats the piston-deck clearance on a stock M42/M44? thanks for your help, you've been an awesome source of knowledge!
i think i'd like to do something similar to what you've done, would ideally like to run a slightly lower CR tho.
On a std M42 piston the deck height is 31.8mm (centre of gudgeon pin to top of piston)

Trust me, this 11,6:1 compression is awesome! The motor has so much torque and throttle response even from as little as 1500rpm, it pulls like a monster from 2000rpm! Im actually regretting not going for the 12:1 compression...thats how awesome it is!

Its a good thing I installed the bigger M3 radiator 'cos I can feel the cam cover gets a little hotter than it used to, obviously with the increased cc's and extra compression the motor will get a little warmer. Once she is broken-in I will connect the oil cooler for extra cooling.

[Gizmo330iT]

Hey Giz, car is lookin great, next time I see u must take me for a spin, see how it feels.

BTW, why is the small end on the M47 so much bigger than M44 and M42. ?

I will take you for a spin once it's complete. :)

The M47 is a diesel motor which runs 19:1 compression, so the pistons, rods and crank have to be much stronger than a petrol motor. The M47 gudgeon pins are big, thick and very strong to cope with the compression.

[ts295]

That’s good to hear! I don’t want to highjack your thread, would you prefer me to PM/email you?
My caution is because my bmw is my main car (veedubs have usually been the weekend toys) so I don’t really want to go too mad with the CR. Its an e30 too, so no knock sensors! 11.6:1 doesn’t sound too dramatic though I must admit and is more bang for the bucks. At the moment I’m trying to justify not dropping in an S14, but I reckon keeping the M42 would be much more unique.

My latest idea was the following:
90mm 318d M47N/TU crank
86mm S50 3l pistons
s50 135mm rods - i'm not sure which ones these are – when I look up s50 rod specs I get the same bearing diameters as the m42 ones, but 135mm length. that doesn't tally with the rods you have in the pics with the larger main bearing bore. maybe the 135mm ones are the 3.2 ones?

i don't know the dish of the m3 pistons in cc yet, but I reckon it should give a fairly tame CR.
Regarding the deck clearance I actually meant the distance between the top of the block and top of piston if that’s ok.
Sorry for all the qs and cheers for your help!

[Gizmo330iT]

That’s good to hear! I don’t want to highjack your thread, would you prefer me to PM/email you?
My caution is because my bmw is my main car (veedubs have usually been the weekend toys) so I don’t really want to go too mad with the CR. Its an e30 too, so no knock sensors! 11.6:1 doesn’t sound too dramatic though I must admit and is more bang for the bucks. At the moment I’m trying to justify not dropping in an S14, but I reckon keeping the M42 would be much more unique.
Go with the S14, you will find more power with it...No replacement for displacement...


My latest idea was the following:
90mm 318d M47N/TU crank
86mm S50 3l pistons
s50 135mm rods - i'm not sure which ones these are – when I look up s50 rod specs I get the same bearing diameters as the m42 ones, but 135mm length. that doesn't tally with the rods you have in the pics with the larger main bearing bore. maybe the 135mm ones are the 3.2 ones?
The specs you got are wrong, the big-end bearings on the M3 rods are alot bigger than the M42. Go with the M42 rods, they are very strong and are bolt-on. Besides that, your specs look good...


i don't know the dish of the m3 pistons in cc yet, but I reckon it should give a fairly tame CR.
Regarding the deck clearance I actually meant the distance between the top of the block and top of piston if that’s ok.
Sorry for all the qs and cheers for your help!
If you don't deck the M3 pistons then you will have a VERY low compression ratio.
The pistons sit flush with the block at TDC. ie no clearance.

[ts295]

Thanks for the information gizmo. The s50 piston did look like it had one hell of a bowl on it, i guess i didn't think that through too well! Do you have the specs for the s50b30 and s50b32 pistons, my ks pistons catalogue doesn't have them in it?
yeah the s14 swap is the sensible thing to do and will yield way more power, in fact i nearly got an italian 320is (short stroke s14) a few months ago. don't really know why i'm thinking of building an m42, just to be different i guess.
I may end up doing something very similar to your build, maybe with the pistons decked just a tad more to bring the compression down to 11:1. I'm also considering using the s50b32 86.4mm pistons and maybe the 90mm crank, depending on what turns up. did some ringing around today and so far it looks like i'm either going to have to fork out for a whole m47 bottom end or buy a crank new, i can't find a breakers who will split the crank.
as for the s50 rods, i must have the wrong info. here's what i had (sorry about the formatting):
Engine Series Pin dia B E bore Length B E Width


318is/Z3 M42/M44* .866" 1.890"* 5.512" .858"

M3 6-cylinder* S50 DOHC .866” 1.890” 5.315” .858”

[SA E30]

Go with the S14... might be more expensive, but from what I understand it's ur daily so in a slightly modded form it's gonna make more power than the M42/4 plus an S14 just looks so right in an E30 :D

Yeah, cool Giz when we both done we can have some races

[RedV]

badass. just badass. I want a 318, now.

[ts295]

yeah that's true SA E30.
gizmo want me to start a new post as i don't want to whore all over yours?what i end up doing i reckon will end up being influenced just by what i can find etc. they both have pros and cons - s14 fast, expensive, hard to find and will have unknown history of engine but very cool. m42, slower, more fun to build, probably expensive too by the time i've finished.
gizmo i've got more questions if thats ok. found an 88m crank today, but the breakers are crap. they don't know what car it came out of but reckon 1998, its definitely an 88mm crank (he's measured it too), but it has a speed sensor wheel on the back unlike yours
any good do you think? what part no is yours?
cheers

[Gizmo330iT]

I don't know the part number but put the crank beside a M42 crank and see if its the same length and has the same size big-ends and mains. If so, then get it...

[ts295]

if only i could - mail order breakers, they're a long way from me. i think i'll see if i work some sort of return off them if its not the right one. cheers anyway. don't suppose you know the s50b30/b32 piston specs btw?
cheers for the reply
tim

[DDD]

Insane. You are doing what many of us dream of doing! Good work, and keep it up! :)

[Gizmo330iT]

I have been clocking up the miles over the last week and Im starting to open her up now, Im still very impressed, the torque curve feels very flat.

I have gone WOT to 5-5500rpm a few times and it pulls like a beast! Stuff all that "swap in a 6cyl" bullshit... This thing shat all over a E46 325ti today!!!

I also made a fibreglass pipe that will join the throttle body to the 3inch MAF, just gotta wire-in the Dastek Unichip and have it tuned next week or the week after...OH BOY, OH BOY, OH BOY!!!

[percious]

Pics of the engine bay please!

-percious

[Gizmo330iT]

Pics of the engine bay please!

-percious Go to page 3.

Something else I noticed today, I can always hear a feint whistling sound from the DISA manifold but today while going WOT I heard the DISA throttle body open up at 4200rpm and the thing gave a much deeper throatier roar, kinda like my buddies' honda when vtec kicks in...It sounds badass!!!

[e36]

so you're finished with the engine???

HP?

[Gizmo330iT]

so you're finished with the engine???

HP?

Not yet, I will have dyno figures in a week or two. I will do the big cams and ITB's early next year...

[JedzE36/5]

wow i havent been keeping up with this thread but congrats man! i just recently opted for an M52 with S50 cams and am happy but i would love to build up a motor like yours. you da man!

[e36]

wow i havent been keeping up with this thread but congrats man! i just recently opted for an M52 with S50 cams and am happy but i would love to build up a motor like yours. you da man!


did you finish the project already?

if so you got a link to a thread (if you made one). im interested to see what you updated on the car to make everything work.


mike

[ts295]

nice one, how long til you can really start opening her out? how many miles you done so far? can't wait til this thing is mapped and dyno'd. awesome. i take it its working ok on stock injection - thats quite surprising. i guess you have bigger injectors and lambda probe to keep it all in check.

[Kos-motate139]

Wow...

I think you're going to see some tremendous gains getting rid of the flapper. See if you can get some audio too - that's got to be fantastic. :buttrock:

I'm going to have my engine out this month, in favor of something larger, but you've given me inspiration for rebuilding it for the following season. Rad!

[Gizmo330iT]

nice one, how long til you can really start opening her out? how many miles you done so far? can't wait til this thing is mapped and dyno'd. awesome. i take it its working ok on stock injection - thats quite surprising. i guess you have bigger injectors and lambda probe to keep it all in check.
I have 1000km's so far. I have the M3 300cc injectors in there with the std ECU, just played around with the adjustment screw on the AFM. My car doesn't have a lamda sensor, never came with one. In South Africa we still have leaded fuel, until Jan 2006 when it gets phased out...:(

[Mr.M]

So you have everything completed with the exception of ITB's and cams? What is the current redline? What will it be once the cams are in with the ITB's? What did you/will you/would you have to do to get over the problems with crankshaft balance over 7k RPM?

[Mr.M]

Stuff all that "swap in a 6cyl" bullshit...

:buttrock

[psyyambmw]

Awesome GIZMO! Now, the ferious-est m42 is on the road. :redspot

So! Can U list up all the mods done on your m42?

Because, U mixed so many stuffs around, ie, m42, m44, m47, s50, blaaaaaaar :eyecrazy

[ts295]

awesome. btw gizmo, what have you done about the vibration damper? apparently they can sheer the nose off the crank at 7,200 rpm

[Gizmo330iT]

Currently my rev limiter is set at 6800rpm. Once the cams+ITBs setup is in then I will spin her to +-7500rpm.

As for the damper, I have a spare damper that I must inspect and see what the big deal about the thing is, probably get a machine shop to built me a new solid billet aluminium one.

[TrunkImpaired]

Amazing. I'll admit I was wondering if this was actually going to happen, but you've made a believer out of me. I can't wait to see the dyno charts for this thing once it gets tuned.

:buttrock

[bigbore]

I have 1000km's so far. I have the M3 300cc injectors in there with the std ECU, just played around with the adjustment screw on the AFM.
My car doesn't have a lamda sensor, never came with one. In South Africa we still have leaded fuel,
until Jan 2006 when it gets phased out...:(

well thats an interesting factoid I didn't know about S.A.

gizmo or any1 whats the cc on stock M42 injectors?
also the AFM sdjust screws, this the 2 scrrews on the vane/flap inside the afm?
whats adjusting it do? control idle?

[ts295]

must admit i find all the hype over the vibration damper quite intriguing. have a spare m42 on its way to me soon which i'll take a look at. figure a solid pulley will probably resolve the issue, but want a better understanding of the purpose and problems associated with the pulley in the first place.

[Kos-motate139]

must admit i find all the hype over the vibration damper quite intriguing. have a spare m42 on its way to me soon which i'll take a look at. figure a solid pulley will probably resolve the issue, but want a better understanding of the purpose and problems associated with the pulley in the first place.

I accidentally spun mine to about 8600 for a few seconds. It wasn't running smoothly, however, the only problem was the power steering pump running too fast and blowing a hose.

[Mr.M]

Currently my rev limiter is set at 6800rpm. Once the cams+ITBs setup is in then I will spin her to +-7500rpm.

As for the damper, I have a spare damper that I must inspect and see what the big deal about the thing is, probably get a machine shop to built me a new solid billet aluminium one.

Do you know how high you could go with different valve springs + retainers on your setup this spring? What exactly is the problem with the damper? Does it just fall apart at high speeds or what?

[cajunroadster]

I've got to say that this is the most informative thread on the buildup of the M42/44 engine I have ever seen. I look forward to reading it, just to see if anything new is up. Thanks to all who are contributing to the new breed of BMW power. I support your efforts and look forward to the benefits of your trials.

THANKS,:buttrock
John B.

[Gizmo330iT]

Im really having fun with this new motor now, its really opening up!
No-one believes me its a 318i any more...

I've had a good couple runs lately, beat a late 1980's 500SL Merc last night, and whipped a Subaru 2.5 RS tonight all the way to topend. I definitely need that 6 speed gbox, my car runs outta legs quickly now (144mph @ 6800rpm, 5th gear)

I managed to get a Euro M3 cluster today but I need to import a module that will make the 6cyl tach work with the 4cyl signal. Gotta get one of these: http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=127/category_id=287/home_id=59/mode=prod/prd127.htm

[northeaste36]

Currently my rev limiter is set at 6800rpm. Once the cams+ITBs setup is in then I will spin her to +-7500rpm.

As for the damper, I have a spare damper that I must inspect and see what the big deal about the thing is, probably get a machine shop to built me a new solid billet aluminium one.

I don't claim to be an expert on crankshaft harmonics, but I don't think a solid billet v. damper would absorb much vibrations. I would hate to see disaster strike with this unique project...careful with this.

[//m320is]

What I want to know is how us over here in the states get ahold of the m47 crank? This all reminds me of the "hybrid" engines I have built for my vw's

[frost dxb]

Hey Giz, most of us only dreamed on what you just achived but if you have documented what you have done it would be a great help for every one. I would like to ask you personally to share the great M42 project as i have been dreaming of having more power on my 318i.

Thanx a lot,

[//m320is]

any updated info on this, anyone have any lines on the m47 cranks?

[norcalbmw]

cant wait for they dyno!

[TrunkImpaired]

any updated info on this, anyone have any lines on the m47 cranks?

you're probably going to have to order one through BMW (expensive) or find someone in europe or possibly SA that can find you a used one and mail it to you.

[Tuff Guy]

badass. just badass. I want a 318, now.

since you want one, ill be nice and trade ya, i just live down the street anyway. :D

[Mr.M]

you're probably going to have to order one through BMW (expensive) or find someone in europe or possibly SA that can find you a used one and mail it to you.

You can get the M47 crank from a US dealer for about $800. This is through my local dealer, which is always substantially higher than Pacific or pretty much any other.

[Mr.M]

you're probably going to have to order one through BMW (expensive) or find someone in europe or possibly SA that can find you a used one and mail it to you.

You can get the M47 crank from a US dealer for about $800. This is through my local dealer, which is always substantially higher than Pacific or pretty much any other.

[Gizmo330iT]

Ok, I had my car dyno'ed by Steven at Rob Green Motorsport today. He was VERY impressed!!!

168whp@6000rpm, this is with the stock cams and stock head....The 328i MAF conversion did help alot though...

I should see 200whp with the headwork, big cams and throttle bodies next year...

A stock E36 328i makes around 144whp on RGM's dyno...

[ts295]

wow, you must be well happy! what fuel were you on?

[Gizmo330iT]

Pump fuel, 93 leaded.

[cajunroadster]

Ok, I had my car dyno'ed by Steven at Rob Green Motorsport today. He was VERY impressed!!!

168whp@6000rpm, this is with the stock cams and stock head....The 328i MAF conversion did help alot though...

I should see 200whp with the headwork, big cams and throttle bodies next year...

A stock E36 328i makes around 144whp on RGM's dyno...
Those are great numbers, for a N/A motor. I was running 160rwhp at 6.5 psi of boost on TT Stage 2 setup and a DASC. I've got TT Stage 3 setup and a smaller pulley now, running 11 psi. I haven't dynoed yet, so I'm not sure of the gains.

Keep up the work and good luck on the 200 rwhp. Keep us posted.

Before the board went down, a few of us had asked what the chances of getting a crank from you were. Any thoughts if you would be interested in looking into this?

Thanks,
John B.

[AlaskaBlue]

Ok, I had my car dyno'ed by Steven at Rob Green Motorsport today. He was VERY impressed!!!

168whp@6000rpm, this is with the stock cams and stock head....The 328i MAF conversion did help alot though...

I should see 200whp with the headwork, big cams and throttle bodies next year...

A stock E36 328i makes around 144whp on RGM's dyno...

Looks like I may need to build on of these engines:D Great numbers break the 200whp!

[T-Rex]

Ok, I had my car dyno'ed by Steven at Rob Green Motorsport today. He was VERY impressed!!!

168whp@6000rpm, this is with the stock cams and stock head....The 328i MAF conversion did help alot though...

I should see 200whp with the headwork, big cams and throttle bodies next year...

A stock E36 328i makes around 144whp on RGM's dyno...
What did the S42 motors put to the wheels? Also, wut kind of dyno was this? (144whp seems low for what most 328s dyno at in the US - wondering if you're using a dyno similar to the guy in AU with the 318TI thats turbo'd...)

[Gizmo330iT]

I was very fortunate to find a BMW scrapyard that had stripped a M47 down to the bare components. To find another one will be very difficult. If I was able to find another I would probably buy it for myself to build a 2.1lt turbo motor...

Im sure as more 320d's are written off then there will be more cranks available, but for now they are either sold as complete motors or as complete sub assemblies.

[Gizmo330iT]

What did the S42 motors put to the wheels? Also, wut kind of dyno was this? (144whp seems low for what most 328s dyno at in the US - wondering if you're using a dyno similar to the guy in AU with the 318TI thats turbo'd...)

The genuine S42B20 made 315bhp@8400rpm.

The dyno is a Hoffman load dyno, Johannesburg is around 5000feet above sea level.

What kind of numbers does a stock E36 328i make in the States?

[T-Rex]

The genuine S42B20 made 315bhp@8400rpm.

The dyno is a Hoffman load dyno, Johannesburg is around 5000feet above sea level.

What kind of numbers does a stock E36 328i make in the States?
most seem to put down btw 155-160whp.

Can't wait to see what kind of power you end up putting down when all is said and done - wouldn't be surprised if you made over 200whp :D

[Mr.M]

Wow! 200 WHP projected on cams and stuff is amazing for an NA 318. That's M3 territory! This sounds like a much better, and possibly cheaper option than a swap, given you end up with an essentially new engine afterwards. Congratulations, those are great results!

[Gizmo330iT]

I really gave it stick tonight to test her out, HOLY SHIT!!! The throttle response is like lightning! The gears are way too short 'cos I top out @ 144mph very quickly... Im having more fun in her than my dad's E34 and E39 M5's.... The motor revs extremely fast and I leave two nice long black stripes of yokohama 235mm rubber if I dump the clutch @ 4500rpm.

Time to bring on the "smackdown" on those 6cyl boys...hahahaha!

[Mr.M]

Awesome. Simply awesome. Have you considered a lightweight clutch/flywheel? Then it'd really rev freely :)

[frost dxb]

can an M42B18 block hold 86mm stroke & 88mm bore? rather than an M44B19 as i cant get one.

[Gizmo330iT]

Awesome. Simply awesome. Have you considered a lightweight clutch/flywheel? Then it'd really rev freely :) Already got a lightweight flywheel. I had the engineers shave weight off the outer radius of the stock flywheel, they reduced the weight by 30%. My clutch is a BMW Sachs and works very well under the abuse I give it...

Even though the new motor is a monster, the car is even smoother to drive now and makes for a beautiful daily drive, except for the hard coil-overs...

I would recommend this conversion to anyone with an M42/M44 engine, its alot cheaper than a 6cyl swap and make the car ALOT quicker...

[Gizmo330iT]

can an M42B18 block hold 86mm stroke & 88mm bore? rather than an M44B19 as i cant get one. Yes the M42B18 block will work too, the reason I chose the M44 block was because of the oil squirters.

[frost dxb]

Yes the M42B18 block will work too, the reason I chose the M44 block was because of the oil squirters.


Is M42 & M43 the same motor except the head? What’s the oil Squirters by the way? Sorry for all this Q's I just need to clarify thing as I have an M43 so I might only need a head rather than buying a whole motor for this project.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

[norcalbmw]

wow, amazing numbers(and i assume that your going by the theory that US numbers are higher than others)


now its time for the 1/4 mile, i assume low 14s maybe 13s when its finished?

[Gizmo330iT]

Is M42 & M43 the same motor except the head? What’s the oil Squirters by the way? Sorry for all this Q's I just need to clarify thing as I have an M43 so I might only need a head rather than buying a whole motor for this project.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p> The M42 and M43 only share the same block and crank. Everything else is different, the timing chain housing, head, intake&exhaust manifolds...
It will be better to buy a complete M42, install it and sell the M43. Thats what I did with my old M40 engine.

The M44 has little oil squirters that spray a jet of oil onto the underneath of each piston for better lubrication and piston cooling.

As for your email, you don't need the 300cc injectors, Steven at RGM said the std M42 injectors won't max out on the duty cycles on the 2.0lt conversion. The pistons I can get more, but at a price. Can't you find any in Oz? Try finding some alternative pistons, they would still need machining anyway.

[Mr.M]

Gizmo, I do think this would be better than a swap, as you keep the weight down, completely behind the wheels, as well as your stock engine. However, boring the block and decking the pistons is expensive, no? Plus unlike a swap, once this is done, you are essentially at max NA power. The only exception would be raising the redline beyond 7k. Do you know anything about this? S14 crank or something?

[Jeffrie]

Curious I'm unfimilar with "decking the pistons".
Assume you add height to increase compression but how do you do this?

[Mr.M]

Remove height. See page four for pics, I think?

[TrunkImpaired]

Curious I'm unfimilar with "decking the pistons".
Assume you add height to increase compression but how do you do this?

Exactly what Mr.M said. The pistons are ground down to allow for reasonable compression. Alot of times it's also done for piston to valve clearance.

[Jeffrie]

Gismo318i how many mm's (or decking) did you have to remove off the 3.2 M3 36mm bore pistons?
Not that I have any intention to copy your work lol....

[Mr.M]

The bore diameter of the M42 head gasket is 85mm, the bore diameter of the M44 gasket is 86mm. Yes the M44 gasket works with my 86mm pistons.

You are correct, the engineers are taking longer than I had hoped.

I decked the M3 pistons 3.8mm to get the desired deck height. They were pocketed for the bigger cams and bigger valves which will come later.

.

[Jeffrie]

^^^ Sorry I'm Ignorant (no excuse).
Thanks,

[943184dr]

Gizmo, I do think this would be better than a swap, as you keep the weight down, completely behind the wheels, as well as your stock engine. However, boring the block and decking the pistons is expensive, no? Plus unlike a swap, once this is done, you are essentially at max NA power. The only exception would be raising the redline beyond 7k. Do you know anything about this? S14 crank or something?

his motor is in no way max'd for N/A power. there is alot that can still be done to it.

Tom

[Mr.M]

his motor is in no way max'd for N/A power. there is alot that can still be done to it.

Tom

No of course it's not max'd for power. But it's maxed for reasonable NA power. I mean without spending a lot of money or having a motor with lifespan measured in hours, he's pretty close. After his cams and ITB's, any more power output will start to approach the cost of a 6 cyl swap and bolt ons.

[texasbimmer]

we need a list, sperated by parts and labor cost, of total project. This should be with all current information, meaning not what was spent, but what would be spent by someone else not having to do any trial and error.

What happens if you add a DASC kit to this now? just curious ..

[SA E30]

Hey Giz... so u coming for me next year :D ... awesome stuff... can't wait to see ur setup on the ITB's, cause I might just copy u with my motor, plus 2 cyl :D

[TrunkImpaired]

What happens if you add a DASC kit to this now? just curious ..

11.6:1 compression probably wouldn't sit too well with a DASC. Not saying it can't be done, but it would require some very good tuning, very high octane, and relatively low boost.

[nobrakese36]

hey with the m3 pistons, you used m42 rods, how did you get the the rods to hold on to the m3 pistons? the end of the s50 rod(the hole) looks much bigger was that custom , maybee i missed something? thanks
im already starting my project :>
NEVER MIND I WAS LOOKING AT THE THE M47 PISTONS SORRY

[Green318is]

What kind of power do you think that a stock M42 would make if you just replace the M42 crank with the 90 mm M47N one (and keep the stock pistons, rods, valves, injectors, etc)?
Is this a simple thing to do that can provide more power without substantially modifying the M42 engine? If you swap the crank, do you have to make any other modifications?
Thanks for your help.

[HoJo]

What kind of power do you think that a stock M42 would make if you just replace the M42 crank with the 90 mm M47N one (and keep the stock pistons, rods, valves, injectors, etc)?
Is this a simple thing to do that can provide more power without substantially modifying the M42 engine? If you swap the crank, do you have to make any other modifications?
Thanks for your help.

You couldn't use the stock rods, they are too long for this application.

[943184dr]

You couldn't use the stock rods, they are too long for this application.

if you shaved the pistons like gizmo did then yes you could.

Tom

[Mr.M]

Could you use M42 or M44 rods? Or only M44 ones as Gizmo did?

[SA E30]

hey with the m3 pistons, you used m42 rods, how did you get the the rods to hold on to the m3 pistons? the end of the s50 rod(the hole) looks much bigger was that custom , maybee i missed something? thanks
im already starting my project :>
NEVER MIND I WAS LOOKING AT THE THE M47 PISTONS SORRY

You get custom made small end bushes... it has to be done if u use M3 pistons, cause the Gudeon pin on the M3 Pistons is smaller than regular BMW pistons (and the big end is bigger) it's actually quite cheap to get this done, it's just new bushes for the small end. I've also had it done

Doh, should read the whole post :)

[Green318is]

I made this question because if replacing the crank, without making other major modifications to the M42, can improve performance, it's certainly a good option vis-a-vis the DASC. My car has just 30 k miles, so I don't really want to open an engine which works fine to make extensive modifications at this stage. I wonder what power gains could be expected from the crank swap. Any ideas?


What kind of power do you think that a stock M42 would make if you just replace the M42 crank with the 90 mm M47N one (and keep the stock pistons, rods, valves, injectors, etc)?
Is this a simple thing to do that can provide more power without substantially modifying the M42 engine? If you swap the crank, do you have to make any other modifications?
Thanks for your help.

[Bruno730]

I made this question because if replacing the crank, without making other major modifications to the M42, can improve performance, it's certainly a good option vis-a-vis the DASC. My car has just 30 k miles, so I don't really want to open an engine which works fine to make extensive modifications at this stage. I wonder what power gains could be expected from the crank swap. Any ideas?


well i think the deal there is you have to then get the pistons decked because of the added stroke.


-Robby

[Green318is]

Yes, but that's not something that seems to be too complicated. A good shop can do this. Including the cost of the M47N crank, it will be cheaper than the DASC. But how do these two options compare in terms of power gains?


well i think the deal there is you have to then get the pistons decked because of the added stroke.


-Robby

[Bruno730]

oh yeah it would be a fraction of the DASC.. i'm not sure how you could figure out the power gains... but if you figured out the added displacement of the engine maybe power is a function of that?


-Robby

[Green318is]

I guess you're right... I don't know what will be the added displacement but I assume that it can be calculated. It seems an interesting project.


oh yeah it would be a fraction of the DASC.. i'm not sure how you could figure out the power gains... but if you figured out the added displacement of the engine maybe power is a function of that?


-Robby

[Bruno730]

[QUOTE=Green318is]I guess you're right... I don't know what will be the added displacement but I assume that it can be calculated. It seems an interesting project.[/QUOTE



well isn't displacement going to just be a volume formula? so you'd just take the new numbers and use some formulas i'd think, i'm not really too sure. Gizmo seems to be all over displacements and formulas.. maybe he knows



-Robby

[T-Rex]

I guess you're right... I don't know what will be the added displacement but I assume that it can be calculated. It seems an interesting project.
theres really no way to "calculate" power output, the best you can do is estimate. And opening the motor up and swapping cranks is about the biggest thing you can do - its not exactly a small task.

[black318i]

oh yeah it would be a fraction of the DASC.. i'm not sure how you could figure out the power gains... but if you figured out the added displacement of the engine maybe power is a function of that?


-Robby


stroking the motor and swaping\decking pistons is a lot of work and I don't think it would be that much less than a dasc. I'd go the dasc route. Less time and higher gains

[Bruno730]

stroking the motor and swaping\decking pistons is a lot of work and I don't think it would be that much less than a dasc. I'd go the dasc route. Less time and higher gains

really? previous posts said the crank costed like 800.. decking pistons is more than 2500$?




-Robby

[black318i]

really? previous posts said the crank costed like 800.. decking pistons is more than 2500$?




-Robby

no but you will need a LOT of pieces parts which will add up fast. I would not be surprised if your idea adds up to $2000 if you do your own work and more that a DASC if you have a shop do it. Id rather spend the $3400 and be up and running in one day or less vs having my car down for a week. Also the dasc make quite a bit more HP

[Green318is]

Well, if my calculations are ok, displacement should be increased to 2,042 l (an increase of 13.44%). If such increase in displacement implies an identical increase in power (which I doubt), power should be 156.5 hp (assuming a stock M42 with 138hp). It will really depend on the cost.
DASC is expensive ($3,350) but will increase power up to 210hp (see www.understeer.com). Also, it's basically a DYI mod which can be quickly removed, if need be.
My 0,02.


no but you will need a LOTof pieces parts which will add up fast. I would not be surprised if your idea adds up to $2000. Id rather spend the $3400 and be up and running in one day or less vs having my car down for a week. Also the dasc make quite a bit more HP

[AlaskaBlue]

stroking the motor and swaping\decking pistons is a lot of work and I don't think it would be that much less than a dasc. I'd go the dasc route. Less time and higher gains

I've seen dynos of DASC'd cars dyno in the 160 whp range. This car dynos in at 168 whp with no tuning. I'll take a NA engine like this that could break 200 whp over the DASC any day. It doesn't have to rely on artificial atmosphere to get power. This thread is about Gizmo's awesome motor though. So debating between DASC and this motor is pretty OT. Maybe start a new thread for this discussion.

[ts295]

displacement of an m42 and 90mm crank will be 1994cc, an m44 will be 2042cc. iirc m44 ring to deck distance is quite small so won't be able to be decked very much. plus as mentioned its a lot of work to pull off and will take a lot of time and effort. that is why what gizmo has done is so special and has my utmost respect.

[cajunroadster]

I've seen dynos of DASC'd cars dyno in the 160 whp range. This car dynos in at 168 whp with no tuning. I'll take a NA engine like this that could break 200 whp over the DASC any day. It doesn't have to rely on artificial atmosphere to get power. This thread is about Gizmo's awesome motor though. So debating between DASC and this motor is pretty OT. Maybe start a new thread for this discussion.
One thing you are all missing in this thread, is that Gizmo's work has opened the door for a new type of mod to the M42/44. I'm excited about the possibilities of modifying his work and using a DASC or turbo to get ever more power. Why limit yourself to NA only, when a builld like that with FI added could be soooo bad. I'd personally like to see what the max reliable output is for these engines. That's my opinion, and thanks again for all your work Gizmo!:buttrock

[AlaskaBlue]

One thing you are all missing in this thread, is that Gizmo's work has opened the door for a new type of mod to the M42/44. I'm excited about the possibilities of modifying his work and using a DASC or turbo to get ever more power. Why limit yourself to NA only, when a builld like that with FI added could be soooo bad. I'd personally like to see what the max reliable output is for these engines. That's my opinion, and thanks again for all your work Gizmo!:buttrock

I didn't miss that point at all. I am really excited that the "door" to our engines has been opened up. It just seemed like they were debating the NA work or the DASC not both in conjunction. Debating time and money spent vs. power gained on a DASCd stock motor vs. S42 replica motor.

[cajunroadster]

I didn't miss that point at all. I am really excited that the "door" to our engines has been opened up. It just seemed like they were debating the NA work or the DASC not both in conjunction. Debating time and money spent vs. power gained on a DASCd stock motor vs. S42 replica motor.
I agree. There are now way more options, then there were before. Regardless of the direction someone goes NA or FI or FI w/Gizmo, it's a better world for M42/44 owners. Hopefully we can put together a well documented plan for each of the builds in a sticky, to make it easier for all to find.

John B.

[AlaskaBlue]

I agree. There are now way more options, then there were before. Regardless of the direction someone goes NA or FI or FI w/Gizmo, it's a better world for M42/44 owners. Hopefully we can put together a well documented plan for each of the builds in a sticky, to make it easier for all to find.

John B.

I totally agree with that! I hope to build something like gizmo's motor in the future. Some bits and pieces of the build are coming in the spring.

Three cheers for gizmo for building his motor.:alright

[Mr.M]

Gizmo's motor will have a huge advantage over any DASC in that it will produce power independant of ambient temperature. A supercharger on a hot track day really won't make anywhere near as much power as this motor will.

[Gizmo330iT]

Wow, thank you for all the props guys...I was just tired of everyone telling me to swap in a 6cyl motor here in South Africa. I set a goal to prove them all wrong by modding the 4cyl to out perform the 6cyl motors. I have done that now, I have more power than a 328i. I haven't touched the cyl head yet...

Im still getting good fuel economy, plus I have an awesome flat torque curve and a smooth linear power delivery. The car is perfect for a daily driver, I don't feel the aircon tap power when I turn it on anymore.
Another reason why I went the NA route is I stay in my class, and not put into the F.I class for track/drag/auto X days.

For BMW events I will take home the trophy for my 4cyl NA class...What more can I want...

This conversion cost me less than people think. Working with the exchange rate of 6.8 Rand=1 Dollar.
M47 Crank=$235, M44 sub assemlby=$147, S50 pistons=$147, engineering=$88, M3 injectors=$88, upper+lower gasket set=$250, Dastek unichip+tuning=$264. Total=$1219. (Cheap price for 168whp)
....look on people's faces when I open the hood....priceless.

[Tuff Guy]

anyone think this bad boy can be built for under 2K? i know m42 motors arent that expensive, but if thing can beat 328s, and maybe hang with some m3s with cams and software, its almost a no brainer. GIZ, we need prices haha EDIT: I see you gave them to us, thanks and fantastic job with the motor

[nobrakese36]

Hey Is It Possible To Use The M42 Crank With The M3 3.2ltr Pistons? How Much Decking Would The Pistons Need ,does Anyone Know? Thanks

[AlaskaBlue]

Wow, thank you for all the props guys...I was just tired of everyone telling me to swap in a 6cyl motor here in South Africa. I set a goal to prove them all wrong by modding the 4cyl to out perform the 6cyl motors. I have done that now, I have more power than a 328i. I haven't touched the cyl head yet...

Im still getting good fuel economy, plus I have an awesome flat torque curve and a smooth linear power delivery. The car is perfect for a daily driver, I don't feel the aircon tap power when I turn it on anymore.
Another reason why I went the NA route is I stay in my class, and not put into the F.I class for track/drag/auto X days.

For BMW events I will take home the trophy for my 4cyl NA class...What more can I want...

This conversion cost me less than people think. Working with the exchange rate of 6.8 Rand=1 Dollar.
M47 Crank=$235, M44 sub assemlby=$147, S50 pistons=$147, engineering=$88, M3 injectors=$88, upper+lower gasket set=$250, Dastek unichip+tuning=$264. Total=$1219. (Cheap price for 168whp)
....look on people's faces when I open the hood....priceless.

Wow that blows my mind on cost...I honestly thought way more. I would have to pay more to have it assembled...
:( I have no engine building knowledge.

[Mr.M]

Wow, thank you for all the props guys...I was just tired of everyone telling me to swap in a 6cyl motor here in South Africa. I set a goal to prove them all wrong by modding the 4cyl to out perform the 6cyl motors. I have done that now, I have more power than a 328i. I haven't touched the cyl head yet...

Im still getting good fuel economy, plus I have an awesome flat torque curve and a smooth linear power delivery. The car is perfect for a daily driver, I don't feel the aircon tap power when I turn it on anymore.
Another reason why I went the NA route is I stay in my class, and not put into the F.I class for track/drag/auto X days.

For BMW events I will take home the trophy for my 4cyl NA class...What more can I want...

This conversion cost me less than people think. Working with the exchange rate of 6.8 Rand=1 Dollar.
M47 Crank=$235, M44 sub assemlby=$147, S50 pistons=$147, engineering=$88, M3 injectors=$88, upper+lower gasket set=$250, Dastek unichip+tuning=$264. Total=$1219. (Cheap price for 168whp)
....look on people's faces when I open the hood....priceless.

Thanks a lot for all the information you've given us. You really have done the M42/44 justice :buttrock I'll definately be looking at this for next summer, if I can find an M47 crank.

On that note, does anyone have any suggestions as to what could work in place of the M47 crank, that would be available in the US?

[frost dxb]

The M42 and M43 only share the same block and crank. Everything else is different, the timing chain housing, head, intake&exhaust manifolds...
It will be better to buy a complete M42, install it and sell the M43. Thats what I did with my old M40 engine.

The M44 has little oil squirters that spray a jet of oil onto the underneath of each piston for better lubrication and piston cooling.

As for your email, you don't need the 300cc injectors, Steven at RGM said the std M42 injectors won't max out on the duty cycles on the 2.0lt conversion. The pistons I can get more, but at a price. Can't you find any in Oz? Try finding some alternative pistons, they would still need machining anyway.


Here in OZ we dont really have much scrap yards of BMW as they dont get worn much say 110kph in motorway 60kph for the rest of the road. Before moving in OZ i was living in Dubai for 15yrs and you can max out your motor as much as you want.

A guy has offered his M42 for US$900 with every thing attached to it includes Intake & Exhaust manifold, ECU & wire harness is this a good buy?

If ever i don't get a 3.0L piston i'm happy to go for 3.2L and if so what would be the bore dia or can this be done on an M42 block? i still dont have a clue where i can get an M47 crank but it does not mean im off this project ill just wait maybe something will come up at least i'll have most of the parts needed.

[black318i]

Ok, I had my car dyno'ed by Steven at Rob Green Motorsport today. He was VERY impressed!!!

168whp@6000rpm, this is with the stock cams and stock head....The 328i MAF conversion did help alot though...

I should see 200whp with the headwork, big cams and throttle bodies next year...

A stock E36 328i makes around 144whp on RGM's dyno...

Can you post a scan of the dyno results? Also what kind of dyno was used?

[cerealkiller93]

wow man yes keep us posted should be very interesting and maybe others can follow your steps. omg honda guys build the 1.8 n/a motor to well over 200 whp all the time with cams pistons ect. and tune, why cant the bmw guys do the same. i mean hey they have a choice to get the bigger 2.2(prelude)motor too like us getting the 2.5 but they choose to built the 1.8 instead.


i know more about honda motors then bmw motors (ive owned one honda and it was just a beater, so no im not a silly ricer, just all my friends are and they come to me for questions ) well over 200 hp? let me tell you something about honda 1.8 liter motors, they're the best honda motor out there. Why? because the prelude h22 weighs in at 400-500 lbs, its heavy over sized engine, works great in accords and preludes, but its not the power house you'd think. theres three main 1.8 liter honda motors... b18a/b (b18a in earlier model integras i.e. 90-93, b18b in later models i.e. 94-2001 integras) this is the non-vtec model which produces 130 crank horsepower in the 'a' model and 140 in the 'b' model. These are called the LS motors. Next, honda stepped it up a bit with a vtec head its the same basic block, the b18c1 which came in the 94-2001 integra gsr, ( my numbers may be off on this but i know there close ) which produces roughly 185 horses at the crank. And the Mac-daddy of all honda motors (if you ever get the chance to drive a honda with this motor in it, take it, i promise you'll be surprised) the Integra Type-R motor, the b18c in japan and the b18c5 in the united states, the c5 was available in japan as well but for some reason they are both in japan... i dont know why, both type-r motors. state side our version of this motor produces 190hp and has a revlimit at 9K rpms. (maybe its 8.5K) i always thought the gsr and the type-r didnt have much difference, but its about as much difference as an m50b25 compared to a s50b30. In japan this motor made 200 and 205 in some models at the crank, keep mind, these are 1.8 liter honda motors with that famous "VTEC" (no, its not just a sticker)

the one i got the pleasure of driving over the summer was an integra gs-r with a japanese integra type-r motor in it (b18c) equpied with "hondata" which is a VERY advanced software for the engine... you can hook your laptop up to it and control all aspects of the engine. You can safuly extract 10K rpms out of one of these motors in stock form, he did it. His car was putting out at least 200 at the wheels, with no internal motor work at all. i was also aloud to peg it out at 10K rpms and that is just a scary sound coming from one of these motors, its like music... not the silly ricer boy bubble bees im sure every one is used to.

Extracting more then 200 hp out of a 1.8 is easy. The prelude motor is a gimmick. a ricey way to get power, it ruins a civic or integras handling.
When it comes to four cylinders, honda is the master of it. Sure, nissan makes some pretty impressive 4 bangers, but keep in mind, the sr20deT is Turbo motor, and it barely puts out more then 200 in older models. Honda does it with n/a.


i know that was alot, but i just wanted to shed some light on this for the uninformed.


BTW i think the motor build you are doing is awesome, im about to acquire a 318i thats coming with two m42's (the one in it isnt running) and i'm swapping my m50 in it, and planning on putting the m42 in the coupe (i have my reasons, dont flame me) and i will definetly be bookmarking this thread. Please share all details.

thats my 2....3.... ok... 110 cents.:alright

[frost dxb]

i know more about honda motors then bmw motors (ive owned one honda and it was just a beater, so no im not a silly ricer, just all my friends are and they come to me for questions ) well over 200 hp? let me tell you something about honda 1.8 liter motors, they're the best honda motor out there. Why? because the prelude h22 weighs in at 400-500 lbs, its heavy over sized engine, works great in accords and preludes, but its not the power house you'd think. theres three main 1.8 liter honda motors... b18a/b (b18a in earlier model integras i.e. 90-93, b18b in later models i.e. 94-2001 integras) this is the non-vtec model which produces 130 crank horsepower in the 'a' model and 140 in the 'b' model. These are called the LS motors. Next, honda stepped it up a bit with a vtec head its the same basic block, the b18c1 which came in the 94-2001 integra gsr, ( my numbers may be off on this but i know there close ) which produces roughly 185 horses at the crank. And the Mac-daddy of all honda motors (if you ever get the chance to drive a honda with this motor in it, take it, i promise you'll be surprised) the Integra Type-R motor, the b18c in japan and the b18c5 in the united states, the c5 was available in japan as well but for some reason they are both in japan... i dont know why, both type-r motors. state side our version of this motor produces 190hp and has a revlimit at 9K rpms. (maybe its 8.5K) i always thought the gsr and the type-r didnt have much difference, but its about as much difference as an m50b25 compared to a s50b30. In japan this motor made 200 and 205 in some models at the crank, keep mind, these are 1.8 liter honda motors with that famous "VTEC" (no, its not just a sticker)

the one i got the pleasure of driving over the summer was an integra gs-r with a japanese integra type-r motor in it (b18c) equpied with "hondata" which is a VERY advanced software for the engine... you can hook your laptop up to it and control all aspects of the engine. You can safuly extract 10K rpms out of one of these motors in stock form, he did it. His car was putting out at least 200 at the wheels, with no internal motor work at all. i was also aloud to peg it out at 10K rpms and that is just a scary sound coming from one of these motors, its like music... not the silly ricer boy bubble bees im sure every one is used to.

Extracting more then 200 hp out of a 1.8 is easy. The prelude motor is a gimmick. a ricey way to get power, it ruins a civic or integras handling.
When it comes to four cylinders, honda is the master of it. Sure, nissan makes some pretty impressive 4 bangers, but keep in mind, the sr20deT is Turbo motor, and it barely puts out more then 200 in older models. Honda does it with n/a.


i know that was alot, but i just wanted to shed some light on this for the uninformed.


BTW i think the motor build you are doing is awesome, im about to acquire a 318i thats coming with two m42's (the one in it isnt running) and i'm swapping my m50 in it, and planning on putting the m42 in the coupe (i have my reasons, dont flame me) and i will definetly be bookmarking this thread. Please share all details.

thats my 2....3.... ok... 110 cents.

As every thing has been said to this motor it’s good to know. Honda's are good cars but when it comes to class I wouldn't be proud enough to say that I have a Honda civic or accord y'know what I mean it's a big gap when you drive a BMW compared to a Japanese car. What we are trying to achieved here is an enthusiast car no mater how much gain a Honda gets from playing with it electronics it still a Honda with its own class so lets leave this Honda issue to it’s own forum.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p> </o:p>
Where kind of off topic here…<o:p></o:p>

[cerealkiller93]

true, true, we are offtopic, i was just making reference to the guy that said osmething about them and how amazing he thought it was that they got over 200 whp....

trust me i totally agree with you...theres a reason i bought a bmw and not a honda.
i'd love to get myself a 92-95 civic hatch, but as long as i still had my bmw. I'd never give up the BMW for a honda...

[Jeffrie]

The subject that another manufacturer hasn't done this never was an issue.
What the point to this thread which is way off Gismo's topic is how to get the #'s your speaking about from a 4 banger that was built in 1990 and still pretty much the same today. As in never upgraded by BMW.

[black318i]

I've seen dynos of DASC'd cars dyno in the 160 whp range. This car dynos in at 168 whp with no tuning. I'll take a NA engine like this that could break 200 whp over the DASC any day. It doesn't have to rely on artificial atmosphere to get power. This thread is about Gizmo's awesome motor though. So debating between DASC and this motor is pretty OT. Maybe start a new thread for this discussion.

Yeah as far as the DASC only putting out 160 that’s probably an M42 with only the DASC on unleaded 91 or 92 octane fuel. Mine only put out 157hp. Gizmo is using 93 octane leaded fuel, a MAF conversion and probably exhaust as well. Also it sounds like it put out 168hp after being tuned with the unichip. Other things that may be a factor is what type of dyno was used fixed or loaded inertia and what gear was the dyno run done in? Don't get me wrong this is an awesome project. I just think your comparison is unfair and misleading. (not apples to apple) meaning DASC worst case scenario vs. S42 replica with better fuel, MAF conversion etc. etc. This will be my last DASC post on this thread because it is OT.

[nuvola rossa]

Hi Gizmo, after a month of pc broke I see that you have do a lot of progresses...;) I love you...:buttrock

So, I was thinking to do the same but with no ITB and not cams... 168whp are ok for me...
mine is a m44... I have re-read all the 3d, but you have the m42 block...
what parts or mods I must have for do all the work on my m44? Your crank is M47 88mm, not 90mm, true?
CORRECT AND UPGRADE MY LIST IF WRONG OR TOO SMALL, please:
- m47 crank
- s50 pistons
- dastek unichip or similar
- upper+lower gasket set
What rods I must use with 88mm crank and what for 90mm crank?
The 328 MAF mod work on m44 with the original ECU(with no piggyback)? The connector is the same but I think that there is a cable different!
thank you

sorry for the english... italian at the keyboard:D
P.S.: what is included in the 88$ of engineering??? Have you do the work of assembly on your hands (with no mechanic)?

[Low Level]

Do ALL M44s have dual crank sensors, or is that a South African BMW thing?

[luv4myE36]

hey man, love your project and i cant wait till its done...i soon as i saw this i thought of you, figured you might want to see this.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=452380

i swear some people make me mad. o0o well good luck with this man

[Gizmo330iT]

My package from Dakota Digital arrived today. I installed the SGI-8 tach module and installed the Euro M3 cluster, works perfectly and now I have the oil temp guage instead of the consumption guage.

On another note, one of my good friends picked up his '95 Alpine Euro M3/2 on saturday, this beauty is in pristine condition. Gonna do a photoshoot of his M3 and my STW in a few weeks...

Lastly, on sat night I showed my friends what my new engine was capable of, they shat themselves...hehe. Oh yeah, this car is a donut king now!!!

[e30symphony]

How is your car compared to the '95 Alpine Euro M3/2.
I think this thread is great keep the modding up

Colm

[nickmpower]

i have a e30 318 and im just seeing this thread. damn

[shellback]

i have a e30 318 and im just seeing this thread. damn

I know, I know....:worship:
Wonder if it could be done on ours

[nuvola rossa]

Gizmo, is difficult to map the Dasteck Unichip? It's similar to the Power Commander(easy) for bikes that a simple software interface by rpm or complex as the original ECU map with graphs? Have you dyno'ed the torque of your car?
thank you...

P.S.: on the bmw part catalogue for the Euro M3 3.2 there are special pistons labeled "low compression". Do you know the specs of these? The bmw code is 11 25 1 405 933
How I can calculate how much I must deck the pistons for a assumed CR ratio? What is the formule? bye

[WCBthomas]

My package from Dakota Digital arrived today. I installed the SGI-8 tach module and installed the Euro M3 cluster, works perfectly and now I have the oil temp guage instead of the consumption guage.

On another note, one of my good friends picked up his '95 Alpine Euro M3/2 on saturday, this beauty is in pristine condition. Gonna do a photoshoot of his M3 and my STW in a few weeks...

Lastly, on sat night I showed my friends what my new engine was capable of, they shat themselves...hehe. Oh yeah, this car is a donut king now!!!

im looking to install a M3 instrument in my 318is and im wondering: how much of is the taco going to be if i just connect the m3 instrument to the 318is harness? cant i just make a new face for the taco?
love your car!!

[frost dxb]

Hi Nuvola, i also wanted to build the same project but here in Australia it is very difficult to find M3 pistons and the famous M47 crank would be able to help me get those?



P.S.: on the bmw part catalogue for the Euro M3 3.2 there are special pistons labeled "low compression". Do you know the specs of these? The bmw code is 11 25 1 405 933


As far i know they are 86.6mm diameter. Ones you shave the head of this pistons compression will go up.



How I can calculate how much I must deck the pistons for a assumed CR ratio? What is the formule? bye

Here is the calcultion of every thing you need...

<TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=4 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=2><CENTER> </CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD>Example Bore:</TD><TD><CENTER>92mm</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD>Example Stroke:</TD><TD><CENTER>69mm</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD>Example Deck Height (thousandths of an inch):</TD><TD><CENTER>.080"</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD>Example Desired Compression Ratio:</TD><TD><CENTER>9.6 to 1</CENTER></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<HR width=250 SIZE=3><CENTER><TABLE cellPadding=3 width=500><TBODY><TR><TD><CENTER>Formula</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>Example</CENTER></TD></TR><TR bgColor=#e9e9f3><TD><CENTER><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><CENTER>Deck Height (mm) = </CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>Deck Height (inches) x 25.4 mm/inch</CENTER></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>.080 inches x 25.4 mm/inch</TD><TD> = 2.03 mm</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2><HR width=440 SIZE=3></TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fff7f2><TD><CENTER><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><CENTER>Total Engine Displacement (cc) = </CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>Bore x Bore x
Stroke (mm) x .0031416</CENTER></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><CENTER>92 mm x 92 mm x 69 mm x .0031416</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>= 1834.74 cc</CENTER></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2><HR width=440 SIZE=3></TD></TR><TR bgColor=#f2fff2><TD><CENTER><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TD rowSpan=3><CENTER>Deck Height
Displacement =
(cc) </CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>Bore x Bore x Deck Height (mm) x .0031416</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR width=150 noShade SIZE=1></TD></TR><TR><TD><CENTER>4</CENTER></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><CENTER>92 mm x 92 mm x 2.03 mm x .0031416</CENTER></TD><TD rowSpan=3><CENTER>= 13.49 cc</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR width=100 noShade SIZE=1></TD></TR><TR><TD><CENTER>4</CENTER></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2><HR width=440 SIZE=3></TD></TR><TR bgColor=#f0ffff><TD><CENTER><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TD rowSpan=3><CENTER>Cylinder
Displacement =
(cc) </CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>Bore x Bore x Stroke in mm x .0031416</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR width=150 noShade SIZE=1></TD></TR><TR><TD><CENTER>4</CENTER></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><CENTER>92 x 92 mm x 69 mm x .0031416</CENTER></TD><TD rowSpan=3><CENTER>= 458.7 cc</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR width=100 noShade SIZE=1></TD></TR><TR><TD><CENTER>4</CENTER></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2><HR width=440 SIZE=3></TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fffff0><TD><CENTER><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TD rowSpan=3><CENTER><NOBR>Head </NOBR>
<NOBR>Displacement = </NOBR>
<NOBR>(cc) </NOBR></CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>Cylinder Displacement +
Deck Height Displacement -
("Desired Compression Ratio"
x Deck Height Displacement)</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR width=150 noShade SIZE=1></TD></TR><TR><TD><CENTER>("Desired Compression Ratio" -1)</CENTER></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TD><CENTER>458.7 cc + 13.49 cc - (9.6 x 13.49 cc)</CENTER></TD><TD rowSpan=3><CENTER>= 39.85 cc</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR width=150 noShade SIZE=1></TD></TR><TR><TD><CENTER>(9.6 -1)</CENTER></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2><HR width=440 SIZE=3></TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fff0ff><TD><CENTER><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TD rowSpan=3><CENTER>Compression
Ratio = </CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>Cylinder Displacement + Deck Height Displacement + Head CC's</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR width=150 noShade SIZE=1></TD></TR><TR><TD><CENTER>Deck Height Displacement + Head CC's</CENTER></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><CENTER>458.7 cc + 13.49 cc + 39.85 cc</CENTER></TD><TD rowSpan=3><CENTER>= 9.6 to 1</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR width=100 noShade SIZE=1></TD></TR><TR><TD><CENTER>13.49 cc + 39.85 cc</CENTER></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></CENTER></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></CENTER>

[squirrel]

Awesome work Gizmo! Unfortunatly for us M44 guys it looks like the M47 crank doesn't have the timing wheel that is found on the M44 crank. Keep up the great work and keep us informed on the cams:buttrock

[edacosta]

Awesome work Gizmo! Unfortunatly for us M44 guys it looks like the M47 crank doesn't have the timing wheel that is found on the M44 crank. Keep up the great work and keep us informed on the cams:buttrock

how is gizmo using the m44 then?

[squirrel]

From the way it looks he is only using the M44 block since he had to do the AFM/MAF swap. The blocks and most of the internals are interchangeable but the ECM's are different and I think the M44 uses a crank trigger whereas the M42 does not. I have an M44 so I'm not too familiar with the M42. I hope I am wrong as this would exclude me from using the longer stroke crank. Does anyone else have a definitive answer for the crank trigger issue?

[black318i]

From the way it looks he is only using the M44 block since he had to do the AFM/MAF swap. The blocks and most of the internals are interchangeable but the ECM's are different and I think the M44 uses a crank trigger whereas the M42 does not. I have an M44 so I'm not too familiar with the M42. I hope I am wrong as this would exclude me from using the longer stroke crank. Does anyone else have a definitive answer for the crank trigger issue?

my m42 has a cps

[943184dr]

my m42 has a cps

i beleive he is talking about a crank wheel that is on the back of the crank between it and the flywheel? correct me if i'm wrong but, otherwise it doesn't make sense because the pickups for a crank sensor are on the pulley which is not attached to the crank.

Tom

[ts295]

i know it's a little off topic, but i just noticed something on this that's wrong: the m42 does have piston oil squirters. they are in a different place to the m44 and more difficult to see (they're behind the main bearings)!

[squirrel]

If you look at this picture Gizmo supplied of the cranks it is very obvious that the M44 in the middle has a trigger wheel while the other two do not. This is what I am talking about. I am afraid those with the M44 will not be able to use the M47 crank unless we go back to the M42 management or a standalone with its own method of determining crank position. Unless the trigger wheel can be removed and that is why the outer cranks are missing it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/gizmo316i/PB010145.jpg

[2002maniac]

Ok, so if someone wanted to do this and wanted to keep the CR down to about 10.5:1 how would they go about it?

Are there any shorter BMW rods that could be used so the piston wouldnt have to be decked? Seems like if you had an M44 you could use the stock pistons with the M47N crank as long as you had some rods that were 4mm shorter. Right?

[Mr.M]

Ok, so if someone wanted to do this and wanted to keep the CR down to about 10.5:1 how would they go about it?

Are there any shorter BMW rods that could be used so the piston wouldnt have to be decked? Seems like if you had an M44 you could use the stock pistons with the M47N crank as long as you had some rods that were 4mm shorter. Right?

I would guess 10.5:1 could be achieved with a different headgasket? :dunno

[943184dr]

Ok, so if someone wanted to do this and wanted to keep the CR down to about 10.5:1 how would they go about it?

Are there any shorter BMW rods that could be used so the piston wouldnt have to be decked? Seems like if you had an M44 you could use the stock pistons with the M47N crank as long as you had some rods that were 4mm shorter. Right?

if you shorten the rods you defeat the purpose of the crank. the way you get more displacement is increasing either bore or stroke if you get a longer stroke crank by 4mm and then shorten the rods by 4mm you're back where you started. the only way to acheive that is if you decked the pistons to the right height that would give you a 10.5:1 compression. and a 4mm thick headgasket is just begging to leak. that is really thick. even the VAC uber thick headgaskets are only 3.5mm thick uncompressed.

Tom

Tom

[black318i]

if you shorten the rods you defeat the purpose of the crank. the way you get more displacement is increasing either bore or stroke if you get a longer stroke crank by 4mm and then shorten the rods by 4mm you're back where you started. the only way to acheive that is if you decked the pistons to the right height that would give you a 10.5:1 compression. and a 4mm thick headgasket is just begging to leak. that is really thick. even the VAC uber thick headgaskets are only 3.5mm thick uncompressed.

Tom

The stroke will be the same using shorter rods so your displacement will be the same, but I'm not sure if that would be a good idea or not. Increasing displacement isn't the only benefit from stroking a motor you gain torque from the increased leverage. I would just deck the pistons or get a set custom made.

[2002maniac]

if you shorten the rods you defeat the purpose of the crank. the way you get more displacement is increasing either bore or stroke if you get a longer stroke crank by 4mm and then shorten the rods by 4mm you're back where you started.

Tom

Uh, guru? :confused

[943184dr]

The stroke will be the same using shorter rods so your displacement will be the same, but I'm not sure if that would be a good idea or not. Increasing displacement isn't the only benefit from stroking a motor you gain torque from the increased leverage. I would just deck the pistons or get a set custom made.

thats just what i said except worded differently :confused

Tom

[943184dr]

Uh, guru? :confused

you stated that you could in theory use shorter rods with the m47N crank to acheive the stroked motor with 10.5:1 compression and not have to deck the pistons. that is not the case because if you shorten the rods when you put in a m47N crank you are working backwards.

crank=stroke+4mm then you rods -4mm (stroke -4mm) = same stroke as when you started.

Tom

[black318i]

if you shorten the rods when you put in a m47N crank you are working backwards.

crank=stroke+4mm then you rods -4mm (stroke -4mm) = same stroke as when you started.

Tom

Rod length has nothing to do with stroke lengh. CR will be the same, but the stroke will still be 4mm longer

[2002maniac]

you stated that you could in theory use shorter rods with the m47N crank to acheive the stroked motor with 10.5:1 compression and not have to deck the pistons. that is not the case because if you shorten the rods when you put in a m47N crank you are working backwards.

crank=stroke+4mm then you rods -4mm (stroke -4mm) = same stroke as when you started.

Tom
like I said, guru? :confused

Can someone clear this up please. Rod length has nothing to do with stroke.

[Gizmo330iT]

Correct, rod length has nothing to do with the stroke.

943184dr, the piston moves a greater distance from TDC to BDC with a longer stroke, no matter how long the conrod is...The conrod doesn't vary in length with each revolution. Think long and hard about, you will smack yourself in the head when you realise it...

[nuvola rossa]

Hi Gizmo, this is true? :

If you look at this picture Gizmo supplied of the cranks it is very obvious that the M44 in the middle has a trigger wheel while the other two do not. This is what I am talking about. I am afraid those with the M44 will not be able to use the M47 crank unless we go back to the M42 management or a standalone with its own method of determining crank position. Unless the trigger wheel can be removed and that is why the outer cranks are missing it.
It's on post #202...
:help ;)

[Gizmo330iT]

U would need to move the crank sensor to the front. Get a M42 crank pulley and a M42 lower timing case and fit the sensor to the front. The M42 and M44 pullies are interchangable, so are the lower timing cases.

[TrunkImpaired]

U would need to move the crank sensor to the front. Get a M42 crank pulley and a M42 lower timing case and fit the sensor to the front. The M42 and M44 pullies are interchangable, so are the lower timing cases.

So the M42 CPS uses the pulley to determine crank position? Just want to make sure I'm understanding correctly.

[adfafafadfafasf]

any news on the ITB setup?

[943184dr]

Correct, rod length has nothing to do with the stroke.

943184dr, the piston moves a greater distance from TDC to BDC with a longer stroke, no matter how long the conrod is...The conrod doesn't vary in length with each revolution. Think long and hard about, you will smack yourself in the head when you realise it...

WERD, that one kinda hurt but then again it was kinda deserved. sorry guys my mistake.

Tom

[Tuff Guy]

giz, i need a vid because i dream about this motor setup now, you are awesome and keep us updated.

[Gizmo330iT]

WERD, that one kinda hurt but then again it was kinda deserved. sorry guys my mistake.

Tom I didn't mean to offend you, sorry.:)

GDB, the trigger wheel is located on the crank pulley on the M42 engine.

I haven't done anything about the ITB setup yet, still enjoying the awesome torque this motor produces...I will look into it later this year... I've gotta focus on some other areas such as interior and better suspension for now.

[943184dr]

I didn't mean to offend you, sorry.:)

GDB, the trigger wheel is located on the crank pulley on the M42 engine.

I haven't done anything about the ITB setup yet, still enjoying the awesome torque this motor produces...I will look into it later this year... I've gotta focus on some other areas such as interior and better suspension for now.

LOL dont worry about it you didn't. that was just my clearly poor excuse for humor.

Tom

[nuvola rossa]

Gizmo, have you a exstimated 0-62mph(0-100kmh) time?

[frost dxb]

I've gotta focus on some other areas such as interior and better suspension for now.

Hey Giz, check this suspension set http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-E36-Coilovers_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33582QQitemZ8 027936378

[frost dxb]

I was wondering if 318td (M41) shares the same crank with 320td (M47) does any one knows? 318td was produced in 1995-2001.

[Gizmo330iT]

Gizmo, have you a exstimated 0-62mph(0-100kmh) time? I will get some times when the race tracks open up again. I'll get the 0-100km/h, 1/4mile speeds/times and in Feb the BMW Club of SA are having a track day at Kyalami race track so I will definitely be drifting at that one... I'll make some videos too...

[Mr.M]

I'll make some videos too...

:buttrock Keep us posted!

[vetteman21]

Good work! Your probably out on some road right now flying through the twisties :D The all white does look sweet too.

You should call yourself the magician :) Cause when you open the hood for people after wasting them they will think you made the "big motor" dissapear :D

[nickmpower]

It seems like it would cost a lot more then $1500 for the average person. Where are the knock sensors on the e36 m42? Its tempting to do this but dont know if i can justify the money

[943184dr]

It seems like it would cost a lot more then $1500 for the average person. Where are the knock sensors on the e36 m42? Its tempting to do this but dont know if i can justify the money

The knock sensors on a E36 m42 (e30's dont have any) are located between cylinders 1and2 and 3and4 on the drivers side about half way down the block.

Tom

[nickmpower]

o damn, i was thinking i might just be able to swap heads to get the sensors

[943184dr]

o damn, i was thinking i might just be able to swap heads to get the sensors

nope, to be able to get them you would not only have to swap blocks but wiring harness and computer.

Tom

[nickmpower]

how do the sensors work? any way to retro fit them?

[943184dr]

how do the sensors work? any way to retro fit them?

I wouldn't think so, they attach directly to the block where there is a raised mounting post for each one.

Tom

[kevk911]

Gizmo318i, do you have photos of the M42 or m44 oil squirters in situ? TIA

[auto3251]

I will get some times when the race tracks open up again. I'll get the 0-100km/h, 1/4mile speeds/times and in Feb the BMW Club of SA are having a track day at Kyalami race track so I will definitely be drifting at that one... I'll make some videos too...
how do you time 0-62 times on a car (something I can do at home that will be accurate)?

[Dan]

how does using leaded gas differ in power compared to unleaded?

[Bruno730]

sugar vs. splenda ;)

[black318i]

how does using leaded gas differ in power compared to unleaded?

Helps with pinging. There is more to it than that, but I just did a quick search on google.

[SA E30]

Giz... why u driving so fast down Comaro yesterday... must say Can't miss ur car... it looks good

[DRW]

Say Gizmo, any info on the Dura form plastic? I do a google search and get stuff about GF (gas filled) and/or polyamide.

please help

[318msII]

Huzit Gizmo
I really hope you're going to Kyalami on the 25th. I posted the question on the BMW club web site. Funny how nobody takes you seriosly when you drive a 4 pot BM, I reckon we'll show 'em.

[frost dxb]

Huzit Gizmo
I really hope you're going to Kyalami on the 25th. I posted the question on the BMW club web site. Funny how nobody takes you seriosly when you drive a 4 pot BM, I reckon we'll show 'em.


I wanna hear something from those ignorants too, Keep us posted...

[318msII]

Hoo Yah

[Tuff Guy]

any news on this car? true numbers or anything?

[falieson]

yah giz, whats the status?

[2002maniac]

Those are Euro S50 pistons right?

[Jetblack95]

i just spent the past 1 1/2 reading this entire thread..........amazing.......i am SO doing something like this, but looking for more of something that i can just swap out during a tear down....i have the knowlage of cars, just not of BMW's..... what would be the easiest to do without changing the electronics or making to many waves. Thanks!

[318msII]

Those are Euro S50 pistons right?

No, euro S52 pistons.

[318msII]

i just spent the past 1 1/2 reading this entire thread..........amazing.......i am SO doing something like this, but looking for more of something that i can just swap out during a tear down....i have the knowlage of cars, just not of BMW's..... what would be the easiest to do without changing the electronics or making to many waves. Thanks!

Hey Jet

The 318is trigger sensor is all that has to be moved and the wire extended when you fit then M42 trigger wheel. But you WILL need to remove the engine from the car. I am trying to see if the M42 cyl head fits the M44 block And use M44 cams on account of the camshaft position sensor, maybe all that needs to be done is the cam shaft sproket replaced(intake side). The ECU will also need to be re-mapped to accomodate the mods.

[Tuff Guy]

i wanna see giz racing some 6cyl bimmers, 328s maybe even an m3 for a comparison of how quick hes gotten this thing, if it can hang with a 328 without the head being done, im DEFINETLY doing this

[Jetblack95]

Hey Jet

The 318is trigger sensor is all that has to be moved and the wire extended when you fit then M42 trigger wheel. But you WILL need to remove the engine from the car. I am trying to see if the M42 cyl head fits the M44 block And use M44 cams on account of the camshaft position sensor, maybe all that needs to be done is the cam shaft sproket replaced(intake side). The ECU will also need to be re-mapped to accomodate the mods.


maybe embarassed to ask, but when you say "trigger sensor" your meaning what?