Anyone have ane experience or knowledge of these tires? I am looking to replace my Kumo's and would consider the extra cost if they are better. I am not really having the major groving problems with my kumo's like most.

I don't want to go to hoosiers because they simply don't last long enough to be worth it.

I think "Wasted" on roadfly has been running them. He just drove at Road Atlanta this weekend on them.

A friend of mine in Dallas runs them on his E46 M3. He loves them; other than that, I didn't get any feeback.

I know this one guy who took off 4 seconds off his personal best at Thunderhill raceway using Cups (his previous P.B. was with Vicotoracers). Hell, the guy is even sponsored by Kumho.:12:

They do cost a nice chunk of change, but they are worth it for that kind of showing.

Drive Safely,
Raza

Dinan3er, what mods do you have on your car???

Everything you have except my suspension is Stage 1 and I have the 3-piece Dinan (Fikse) FM5's.

Drive Safely,
Raza

I talked with a local e46 M3 fellow (could be the same guy Raza's referring to) about them too. He said the following:

1. Not quite as grippy as Hoosiers, better than Kumhos.
2. Hit their peak and stay at it a lot longer than Hoosiers.
3. Last longer than most R tires. (He drove 'em in the OTC, thinks he might have been able to do the whole event on 1 set)
4. Warm up slowly, and are thereby inapproprate for Autocross.

So, as a track tire, they seem pretty amazing. I'm waiting to see how they categorize tire rules for the OTC in 2003 to see if I'm going to get a set...unfortunately, most of the 16" sizes they have are a little tall for my little 4 banger to spin quickly. I'd have to go to 15" ers to get the right height. :az:

One other thing I just noticed, they're Y rated in all sizes, even 15" -- very cool. I get the impression that Michelin in general puts a lot of time, effort and R&D into their tires. And you pay for it. $202 for 225/50x15s! You can get good 15x8 rims for less than that. :eek:

Hmm, if they don't need to be shaved, last twice as long as a Kumho, they may be the hot ticket.

My E46 M3 friend says/thinks they use an entirely different technology, using a much higher durometer rubber than you'd otherwise expect yet still generate near-Hoosier traction.

hey Andy:

I'm actually talking about Navid, and his OTC exploits at Thunderhill.

Drive Safely,
Raza

I know a Michelin/BFG Tire engineer/test driver pretty well. I haven't talked to him in a while. If I get the chance, I'll pick his brain on these tires.

I do remember him saying a couple years ago that Michelin had a great R-comp in Europe that many were using as even a street tire. He said it rivaled Hoosiers in grip, but lasted longer. But he mentioned plans for bringin the tire to the U.S. weren't sure. I'm assuming that this IS the tire he was referring to.

How long has the tire been available? Through what vendors?

It would be interesting to see if Michelin gets involved in any amatuer racing sponsoship like Kumho, Toyo, Hoosier, and BFG in the past.

I saw them for sale at tire rack. When I buy the next set of tires for my E46 I need to choose between the Escta V700 and Pilot Sport Cup. The hoosiers just don't last long enough to justify the cost until I start competing at a national level.

How slowly do they warm up? I was having problems with my Kumo's overheating at a few events this year. 225/40-18 is just not enough tire for the weight of the car in the front.

I am thinking that going to 265 or 285 on all corners and staying with the Kumo's may be the way to go for autoX. Thankfully I don't need to decide for about a month. I have a few runs left in the current tires.


Thanks to all for the information.

The Cups were actually developed by Michelin for the E46 CSL concept. They just made their way to the market lately. :buttrock

Drive Safely,
Raza

Where did you hear that?

Looking at these tires on Tire Rack, I'm pretty sure they are the Michelin R-compounds that have been around in Europe for a little while.

Originally posted by BMWRacerITS
Where did you hear that?

Looking at these tires on Tire Rack, I'm pretty sure they are the Michelin R-compounds that have been around in Europe for a little while.

Bryan,
I'll have to look that up to be sure. I remember reading about the "special" R-Compound tire to debut on the E46 CSL, but I may just be confusing two different tires. I'll get back to you on that one.

I bought a set of the Pilot Sport Cups after the last fiasco with the Kumho Ecstas. I don't have as many miles on then as I would have hoped [<300 track miles due to some VERY bad luck with the race car lately :( ]

So far, though, I like them. They gripped VERY well, gave excellent feedback, and most importantly for me, were consistant throughout a 20-30 minute session.

I'm giving them a tenative "thumbs up" - tenative due to lack of track-time on them, but what I've experienced so far I've liked.

Jim Bassett
1998 M3/4
1993 325is #44 KP - oil pump sprocket nut victim @ Las Vegas :bawl

Raza wrote:

The Cups were actually developed by Michelin for the E46 CSL concept. They just made their way to the market lately.
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While the CSL did have "Cup" tyres on the show car...

I don't think they were developed for that Car. The Pilot Sport Cup has been a spec tyre for Porsche Club racing in the UK and some other Porsche series on the continent.

When Tire Rack first made them available a year ago...they were on a hidden web page on only available to Porsche Club members.

Notice that the sizes 17 and 18 pretty much line up with recent Porsches.

Jim: I'm bummed to hear about your motor....where you able to make it home, by doing a repair at Vegas?

Maybe you can go to a 3.0L or 3.2L and run HP?

JL

Originally posted by like2short
Raza wrote:

The Cups were actually developed by Michelin for the E46 CSL concept. They just made their way to the market lately.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While the CSL did have "Cup" tyres on the show car...

I don't think they were developed for that Car. The Pilot Sport Cup has been a spec tyre for Porsche Club racing in the UK and some other Porsche series on the continent.

When Tire Rack first made them available a year ago...they were on a hidden web page on only available to Porsche Club members.

Notice that the sizes 17 and 18 pretty much line up with recent Porsches.

JL

I stand corrected.

Although, seeing how P-car owners get preferential treatment makes me jealous. DAMN YOU PEOPLE! :complain

Drive Safely,
Raza

Raza -- Yep, Navid is who I'm referring to as well. He had them new on his M3 in May for the first round of the National Tour. It was right around then they became available on Tire Rack's web site. I don't recall any major fanfare from their standpoint, though. At that event, his car was a bit of a celebrity anyway from just being featured on the front of SportsCar, and everyone was asking him how he liked the Michelins. IIRC, he had some trouble with understeer (he had just installed a new anti-swaybar setup too) but still mananged to put together better runs than I could manage in Ralph's baaaadass e30 M3.

I think he ran the same tires he'd autocrossed on that day for most of the OTC. Recently when I asked him about them, his findings seemed to be similar to what Jim posted...except they didn't warm up fast enough to be useful autocrossing. That would be consistant with the harder rubber theory as well, I suppose. Wonder if that's simlar to what they're using in F1??? Maybe not. :astromile

Overall, I'd love to get a set, particularly for the OTC...They might have a new 'T5' class this year, my 318 could be pretty happy there...have to see!

Originally posted by Dinan3er
I know this one guy who took off 4 seconds off his personal best at Thunderhill raceway using Cups (his previous P.B. was with Vicotoracers).


Were the tires the only difference in his car setup from when he did his previous P.B.? And were the Cups the same width as the Victo's? And were the ambient temps about the same in both cases? I'm not asking to flame or disrespect you, I'm just genuinely curious. Unless all those questions are answered "yes", the 4 seconds doesn't mean a whole lot.


Originally posted by Jim Bassett
I bought a set of the Pilot Sport Cups...

So far, though, I like them. They gripped VERY well, gave excellent feedback, and most importantly for me, were consistant throughout a 20-30 minute session.


Jim, do you have any data or gut feel on how the grip compared to the Ecsta's you had on before?

I currently run 245 Victo's. It sounds like the Cups are great, but they only come in 225 and 255 sizes. I already rub in the back a bit with my 245's, so I'd have to go down to a 225. That, combined with the harder rubber of the Cups, makes me skeptical that I'll be turning faster lap times. Anyone care to comment?

Jim, very sorry to hear about your bad luck.

- Bill

Bill, where you rubbing, and what offset are you using.

255's are a tough fit be usually doable.

Originally posted by frayed
Bill, where you rubbing, and what offset are you using.

255's are a tough fit be usually doable.

Rubbing in the rear, on the outer sidewall. I've already rolled the fender lips. I have 17x8 SSR Gt1's, which are same offset as stock (40-41). I am lowered a bit with my springs (Eibach Pro-Kit). Maybe if/when I go to adjustable C/O's I can raise the rear enough to be able to run 255's. Alternatively... not sure how much room there is between inside of tire and strut, but if there's enough maybe a different offset wheel is in order (I should probably go to a different wheel with the 255's anyway since 8" width is a little on the narrow side.)

Sure would be nice to be able to fit the 255's in. Probably wouldn't need too much extra room since I can get the 255's in a 40 profile (current 245's are 45 profile.) Good justification for C/O's, no? ;-)

- Bill

Weird. Stock 8.5" 41mm offset wheels are just fine with 235's and 245's. I figger a little rolling and I can accomodate the extra 5 mm with 255's.