Just wanted to see who else is going?

Pete

I wanted to go, but I'll be up in NY for my sister's wedding.

Just wanted to see who else is going?

Pete
:wave I'll be working it.

As long as my car passes inspection I'll be there.

---Eric

NCC DE? where? if it is Summit...which track? I know SCCA is having a MARRS race this weekend.

NCC DE? where? if it is Summit...which track? I know SCCA is having a MARRS race this weekend.
Jefferson Circuit.

http://www.nccbmwcca.org/index.php?id=138,92,0,0,1,0

---Eric

Jefferson Circuit.

http://www.nccbmwcca.org/index.php?id=138,92,0,0,1,0

---Eric

awww man...u guys shoulda waited to do the main circuit...the jeff and doah are pretty much useless...one is too short and the other is good for a test track at best (for low speed setups tuning for tighter turn sections and less down force situations)...

awww man...u guys shoulda waited to do the main circuit...the jeff and doah are pretty much useless...one is too short and the other is good for a test track at best (for low speed setups tuning for tighter turn sections and less down force situations)...
Great idea, maybe I'll cancel and sign up for the next one.
http://www.nccbmwcca.org/index.php?driving_schools

:rolleyes

Jefferson is pretty much what I'm looking for right now. A nice short course for low speed setups... Uh, I'm driving a 318is. :stickoutt

---Eric

awww man...u guys shoulda waited to do the main circuit...the jeff and doah are pretty much useless...one is too short and the other is good for a test track at best (for low speed setups tuning for tighter turn sections and less down force situations)... Everyone I've talked to say the Jeff circuit is a great learning course. :dunno

Great idea, maybe I'll cancel and sign up for the next one.
http://www.nccbmwcca.org/index.php?driving_schools

:rolleyes

Jefferson is pretty much what I'm looking for right now. A nice short course for low speed setups... Uh, I'm driving a 318is. :stickoutt

---Eric

Eric what I meant by 'low speed setup' is that certain track configs such as jeff and doah are ok if you , me, or anyone else were trying to set their car up for a 'low speed setup'...which means spending the day tuning the car for such a type of configuration (where speeds are lower, turns are tighter and sections run closer together, and where downforce can be set for shorter tracks)...otherwise I don't see a point in the jeff or the doah...as I said it's a test track at most...

Everyone I've talked to say the Jeff circuit is a great learning course. :dunno

it's ok...u can go backwards and forwards...etc...etc...yada yada. there is no runoff for the beginner driver, walls all over the place...etc...it is slower so that's good for teaching, but you are still going fast enough to ball up your car, I've had students freak out on me at the jeff and the doah...the main circuit is the only one at summit worth turning a wheel on, it's technical, presents a nice variety of transitions, and has a lot of key elements and types of turns that make it an excellent teaching track...if you want a great learing course, think Mid Ohio...now there's a real great circuit for learning!

Eric what I meant by 'low speed setup' is that certain track configs such as jeff and doah are ok if you , me, or anyone else were trying to set their car up for a 'low speed setup'...which means spending the day tuning the car for such a type of configuration (where speeds are lower, turns are tighter and sections run closer together, and where downforce can be set for shorter tracks)...otherwise I don't see a point in the jeff or the doah...as I said it's a test track at most...
You do realize the only track experience I have is watching right? :confused I am NOT driving a race car. It is a 318is. I don't plan on doing any "tuning" or downforce adjustments. The only "testing" I'll be doing is trying to figure out if I like it enough to want to do future track events.

---Eric

it's ok...u can go backwards and forwards...etc...etc...yada yada. there is no runoff for the beginner driver, walls all over the place...etc...it is slower so that's good for teaching, but you are still going fast enough to ball up your car, I've had students freak out on me at the jeff and the doah...the main circuit is the only one at summit worth turning a wheel on, it's technical, presents a nice variety of transitions, and has a lot of key elements and types of turns that make it an excellent teaching track...if you want a great learing course, think Mid Ohio...now there's a real great circuit for learning!
:lol I don't think I'm going to Mid Ohio for a DE right now.

---Eric

yeah I know, I just wuish bill scott woulda added to the main circuit instead of building the doah...so yeah I'm a lil biased, plus all the racing we do is on the main circuit:stickoutt (when u get a chance ya'll should try the main circuit or VIR, some very good tracks indeed)...I am glad u and pete will be out there...I think u guys will love it! It's great to see more guys in the mar get involved on track...have fun out there:)

yeah I know, I just wuish bill scott woulda added to the main circuit instead of building the doah...so yeah I'm a lil biased, plus all the racing we do is on the main circuit:stickoutt (when u get a chance ya'll should try the main circuit or VIR, some very good tracks indeed)...I am glad u and pete will be out there...I think u guys will love it! It's great to see more guys in the mar get involved on track...have fun out there:)
I think the first step is to get out there and see how much I like it. If I do, then I can start looking forward to next spring.

---Eric

There's nothing wrong with the Jefferson. I had my first DE there and had a blast. I have been to MidO and VIR several times and still managed to enjoy a day at Jefferson after being at those tracks. I actually really enjoyed catching E46 M3s in my E30 there. Eric, don't listen to him, go and have fun. You can do a lot of different things there in a light, well setup car.

...Eric, don't listen to him, go and have fun. You can do a lot of different things there in a light, well setup car.
Don't worry, I only listen to him when it comes to safety issues like brake pads or tread depth. :stickoutt

---Eric

Don't worry, I only listen to him when it comes to safety issues like brake pads or tread depth. :stickoutt

---Eric

Don't listen to anyone here. Go out, buy a 400+ rwhp turbo M3, slap some snow tires on it, and then take it to the track. That's the only way you'll learn car control :rolleyes

I REALLY like Jefferson compared to the main circuit -- don't ask me why. Probably b/c it's more technical, does not rely on HP, and requires more driver skill IMO ... So, yeah, I'm pretty damn slow on it. :stickoutt

By far, the most fun I've had at any track is Shenandoah. It's tight, busy, incredibly technical, and no boring straights. Although you're obviously confused and/or under the impression that these tracks are here for entertainment and learning. Tuning and racing, nothing else.

Bring up that fun crap again and we'll have to export you to Germany where they're allowed to drive cars fast just for the joy of it.

There's nothing wrong with the Jefferson. I had my first DE there and had a blast. I have been to MidO and VIR several times and still managed to enjoy a day at Jefferson after being at those tracks. I actually really enjoyed catching E46 M3s in my E30 there. Eric, don't listen to him, go and have fun. You can do a lot of different things there in a light, well setup car.

kupe, I'm not tryin' to sway Eric...I'm just pointing out some of my observations...the jeff is a nice lil test track or somewhere to go if there's nothing better going on. even on the jeff, a sorted higher hp car will be much (when I say much I mean within a reasonable delta for the type/layout of the track) faster than an eqaully preped lower hp car assuming both cars are driven equally well...

on the flip side we are dealing with a very short circuit so lap times will be closer together in general...look at laptime data between 2 widely spread out classes such as Cmod and JS at limerock which is a very short track...for example sake, lets use an excellent Cmod driver Asher and an excellent JS driver Simon...both very fast and competitive... Asher will run a 59 sec lap and Simon will run like a 1:02 (delta of 3 secs) now compare both drivers in like Watkins glen (Asher 2:04 and Simon 2:16)...delta of 12 secs...

so the shorter the course naturally the closer the times but now each second difference in time is more considerable than that of a long track because of the layout and config of the short track

kupe, I'm not tryin' to sway Eric...I'm just pointing out some of my observations...the jeff is a nice lil test track or somewhere to go if there's nothing better going on. even on the jeff, a sorted higher hp car will be much (when I say much I mean within a reasonable delta for the type/layout of the track) faster than an eqaully preped lower hp car assuming both cars are driven equally well...

on the flip side we are dealing with a very short circuit so lap times will be closer together in general...look at laptime data between 2 widely spread out classes such as Cmod and JS at limerock which is a very short track...for example sake, lets use an excellent Cmod driver Asher and an excellent JS driver Simon...both very fast and competitive... Asher will run a 59 sec lap and Simon will run like a 1:02 (delta of 3 secs) now compare both drivers in like Watkins glen (Asher 2:04 and Simon 2:16)...delta of 12 secs...

so the shorter the course naturally the closer the times but now each second difference in time is more considerable than that of a long track because of the layout and config of the short track


Man, are you fooking kidding? Read what you just wrote. It's his FIRST track day. Besides, didn't you lecture me not too long ago about timing DE laps? Eric is not testing or tuning and I seriosly doubt he cares or even knows who Simon and Asher are. Let it go...

By far, the most fun I've had at any track is Shenandoah. It's tight, busy, incredibly technical, and no boring straights. Although you're obviously confused and/or under the impression that these tracks are here for entertainment and learning. Tuning and racing, nothing else.

Bring up that fun crap again and we'll have to export you to Germany where they're allowed to drive cars fast just for the joy of it.
That's just because you track the lime green hotness.

kupe, I'm not tryin' to sway Eric...I'm just pointing out some of my observations...the jeff is a nice lil test track or somewhere to go if there's nothing better going on. even on the jeff, a sorted higher hp car will be much (when I say much I mean within a reasonable delta for the type/layout of the track) faster than an eqaully preped lower hp car assuming both cars are driven equally well...

on the flip side we are dealing with a very short circuit so lap times will be closer together in general...look at laptime data between 2 widely spread out classes such as Cmod and JS at limerock which is a very short track...for example sake, lets use an excellent Cmod driver Asher and an excellent JS driver Simon...both very fast and competitive... Asher will run a 59 sec lap and Simon will run like a 1:02 (delta of 3 secs) now compare both drivers in like Watkins glen (Asher 2:04 and Simon 2:16)...delta of 12 secs...

so the shorter the course naturally the closer the times but now each second difference in time is more considerable than that of a long track because of the layout and config of the short track
Sunir - your arguments against JC are actually making it look MORE appealing. Since my car is slower, a short track will probably be a lot more fun for me.

---Eric

That's just because you track the lime green hotness.

I understand you're a bit jealous, everyone is. You don't have to be afraid to ask, you can ride in it.:D

The lime-green hotness just enforces what I have to say. I'd imagine the 318ti is close to my car in regards to performance. Maybe a bit faster.

Sunir - your arguments against JC are actually making it look MORE appealing. Since my car is slower, a short track will probably be a lot more fun for me.

---Eric

I hear that they don't have any manholes sticking out of the track... are you sure you want to go?:stickoutt

I understand you're a bit jealous, everyone is. You don't have to be afraid to ask, you can ride in it.:D

The lime-green hotness just enforces what I have to say. I'd imagine the 318ti is close to my car in regards to performance. Maybe a bit faster.

He doesn't have a 318ti, he has a cheaper 318i version...hence you know what we say around here


POOR!!!1111one1!!

:stickoutt

He doesn't have a 318ti, he has a cheaper 318i version...


Oh :( Maybe my car is faster.

I hear that they don't have any manholes sticking out of the track... are you sure you want to go?:stickoutt
You have no room to talk... You car is actually lower than mine. :eek:

---Eric

You have no room to talk... You car is actually lower than mine. :eek:

---Eric

While that is probably true, his oil pan may actually be above your door handles.

While that is probably true, his oil pan may actually be above your door handles.
Dang. :(

**insert Bogdan exhaust joke here** ---Yes, I'm getting lazier. :shifty

---Eric

awww man...u guys shoulda waited to do the main circuit...the jeff and doah are pretty much useless...one is too short and the other is good for a test track at best (for low speed setups tuning for tighter turn sections and less down force situations)...Noted.

Everyone I've talked to say the Jeff circuit is a great learning course. :dunnoThey're right. The repetition is good. Tough on brakes though. Plus normally we run one direction Sat and one Sun, but if there is a MARRS race we have to run counter clockwise both days.

Eric, I'll be there this weekend. Get out an enjoy. The Jefferson is technical and challenging. You'll learn a lot and should enjoy it. If your interested in increasing your driving skills, get out and experience DE's at as many tracks as possible. You'll find that you enjoy some more than others. I gaurantee you'll learn on them all. All three tracks at Summit Point are worth the trip and I look forward to the Jefferson still after many trips. Look me up if you wish. 98 M3/4 -Silver with TMS rear tag bracket.

Cheers!
Kirk.

They're right. The repetition is good. Tough on brakes though. Plus normally we run one direction Sat and one Sun, but if there is a MARRS race we have to run counter clockwise both days.
I'm beginning to think my brakes are indestructible. They passed tech inspection AGAIN! I put them on some time around 1998. :eek:

---Eric

I'm beginning to think my brakes are indestructible. They passed tech inspection AGAIN! ---Eric

I'd ask for a second opinion. I'd probably ask someone other than Sunir to take a look at them, just in case.

I'd ask for a second opinion. I'd probably ask someone other than Sunir to take a look at them, just in case.
They laughed at me when I asked about my brakes. They said my car was too light to wear them out. :stickoutt

---Eric

I'm beginning to think my brakes are indestructible. They passed tech inspection AGAIN! I put them on some time around 1998. :eek:

---Eric

I think what steven meant is that there's very little time to cool the brakes. Did you ever flush that BLACK fluid you had in there last year? You do not want to go into T1 or T7 and not have enough brakes. It gets a bit bumpy there....

Eric, I'll be there this weekend. Get out an enjoy. The Jefferson is technical and challenging. You'll learn a lot and should enjoy it. If your interested in increasing your driving skills, get out and experience DE's at as many tracks as possible. You'll find that you enjoy some more than others. I gaurantee you'll learn on them all. All three tracks at Summit Point are worth the trip and I look forward to the Jefferson still after many trips. Look me up if you wish. 98 M3/4 -Silver with TMS rear tag bracket.

Cheers!
Kirk.
I'll be in the somewhat faded E30 with the NCC license plate frame. You can also recognize me by simply listening to the comments like "Who brought the parts car? Is that car broken down? Why is it going so slow?...." and the standard response "No, it's fine. It's just a 318". :(

---Eric

I think what steven meant is that there's very little time to cool the brakes. Did you ever flush that BLACK fluid you had in there last year? You do not want to go into T1 or T7 and not have enough brakes. It gets a bit bumpy there....
Yes, the fluid has been changed. It wasn't that bad. It was just all the dirt in the engine makes it difficult to see anything. :embarrasm

---Eric

I'm beginning to think my brakes are indestructible. They passed tech inspection AGAIN! I put them on some time around 1998

I've ridden shotgun on a couple of your autocross runs and I will say this: Brakes do not wear out if you do not use them.

I've ridden shotgun on a couple of your autocross runs and I will say this: Brakes do not wear out if you do not use them.
The courses are too short for my car to get up to any speed that would require using brakes.

---Eric

The courses are too short for my car to get up to any speed that would require using brakes.

---Eric
I have that problem too. :help

I already mentioned this to some of you but it bears repeating.

To those attending our final driving school (Oct 7-9), we have
arranged for 3 BBQs to be at trackside. They will be there Friday
through Sunday for all instructors, students and corner workers to
use. Bring some extra charcoal, utensils and your favorite grillings.
--
...steven



Anyone bringing food/charcoal?

---Eric

I think what steven meant is that there's very little time to cool the brakes.Yes. The Jefferson was the first place I experienced brake fade. It was in my 4 cylinder ti, solid rotors and possibly Ate fluid. There just is not a lot of time for brakes to cool. The Jeff is a busy track even though it's short. I believe we will be running counterclockwise both days so you have a nice little set of uphill esses, increasing radius sweeper and a blind left hander. A little of everything. If it rains T1 is pretty slippery. I've gone off in T1 going down and spun going up. Later I found out Ron Katona was right behind me.

Anyone bringing food/charcoal?

---EricI did my part. I called for the grills. I better confirm.

Yes. The Jefferson was the first place I experienced brake fade. It was in my 4 cylinder ti, solid rotors and possibly Ate fluid. There just is not a lot of time for brakes to cool. The Jeff is a busy track even though it's short. I believe we will be running counterclockwise both days so you have a nice little set of uphill esses, increasing radius sweeper and a blind left hander. A little of everything. If it rains T1 is pretty slippery. I've gone off in T1 going down and spun going up. Later I found out Ron Katona was right behind me.
I'm really hoping it doesn't rain.

---Eric

Have fun this weekend you guys!

Bring chairs to sit on and tents to stay under in case it does rain!

Bring add'l oil ERIC :stickoutt ... some tools ... and a change of clothes in case you do get wet. Maybe an umbrella as well.

Don't forget -- keep your speeds DOWN around that area ... officers love to give tickets and this weekend will be a busy one at the track!

I would also recommend bringing a cooler with drinks and some food to munch on.

Have fun this weekend you guys!

Bring chairs to sit on and tents to stay under in case it does rain!

Bring add'l oil ERIC :stickoutt ... some tools ... and a change of clothes in case you do get wet. Maybe an umbrella as well.

Don't forget -- keep your speeds DOWN around that area ... officers love to give tickets and this weekend will be a busy one at the track!

I would also recommend bringing a cooler with drinks and some food to munch on.
I don't think we will be bringing tents. Other than that (and food/drinks), I think I'm all set. I've got an extra gallon of oil in my car, a chair in the trunk and my autox box contains tools, rain gear, etc... :)

Of course I know I will pack everything early in the morning and will definately forget something. :embarrasm

---Eric

Of course I know I will pack everything early in the morning and will definately forget something. :embarrasm

---Eric

Maybe, like leaving your Dewalt sitting on the curb???

sorry, pete :stickoutt

Maybe, like leaving your Dewalt sitting on the curb???

sorry, pete :stickoutt
ouch.

---Eric

I'm really hoping it doesn't rain.

---Eric
dang. :(
http://www.weather.com/activities/other/other/weather/weekend.html?locid=USWV0726&from=36hr_topnav_undeclared

---Eric

Maybe, like leaving your Dewalt sitting on the curb???

sorry, pete :stickoutt

:boid

It's ok. I'm stealing yours :D

Eric, do you have an extra chair? I can bring a cooler with drinks and stuff.


Pete

:boid

It's ok. I'm stealing yours :D

Eric, do you have an extra chair? I can bring a cooler with drinks and stuff.


Pete
Nope, sorry. I only have that one chair. Just bring a bigger cooler that you can sit on.

---Eric

Nope, sorry. I only have that one chair. Just bring a bigger cooler that you can sit on.

---Eric

It's a soft bag cooler.

Pete

It's a soft bag cooler.

Pete
Oh well... It could be worse. :stickoutt

---Eric

I'll be back by 9:00 p.m. on friday. If you want, come over Pete to take the Dewalt, extra chairs, and torque wrench ...

I'm really hoping it doesn't rain.
I was planning on working pitout.:rain
If you want to get an extra lap:cashwalle

I was planning on working pitout.:rain
If you want to get an extra lap:cashwalle
I think something could be arranged... Maybe I'll sell these extra ponchos that were left in my autox box. :devillook I'm sure someone will need them.

---Eric

I might come out and hang out, grill and drink some beer. Even though I'm not driving. :( Looks like I could have driven after all, as I'm headed home from Arizona tomorrow morning.

I might come out and hang out, grill and drink some beer. Even though I'm not driving. :( Looks like I could have driven after all, as I'm headed home from Arizona tomorrow morning.


Show up in the morning. There will probably be no show's given the weather.

Pete

Show up in the morning. There will probably be no show's given the weather.Even if people don't show the spot will not be given to someone else. We will have an instructor for that person, all weekend. Someone may show up late or on Sunday. Calling Monday is too late. Rain is no excuse not to attend. Rain is a great equalizer. Still, anyone is free to come up, sit in the class or just watch.

I might come out and hang out, grill and drink some beer. Even though I'm not driving. :( Looks like I could have driven after all, as I'm headed home from Arizona tomorrow morning.
Your dropping out was appreciated. :)

If you do stop by, bring the patch kit.

---Eric

Even if people don't show the spot will not be given to someone else. We will have an instructor for that person, all weekend. Someone may show up late or on Sunday. Calling Monday is too late. Rain is no excuse not to attend. Rain is a great equalizer. Still, anyone is free to come up, sit in the class or just watch.


I stand corrected. I had that impression that stand ins would get in. Oh well.

I'm bad at the interweb. Does anyone know what time we need to be there by? I can't find it on the website.


Pete

I stand corrected. I had that impression that stand ins would get in. Oh well.

I'm bad at the interweb. Does anyone know what time we need to be there by? I can't find it on the website.


Pete
4 a.m. Wearing a full race suit and helmet when you arrive.

Does anyone know what time we need to be there by? I can't find it on the website.Good point. I don't think it is in any of the registration material. I'd be there no later than 7:00 AM. We'll get official information added to the guidelines and place that info on the web for next year. We've been using the same material for years and never noticed that there wasn't a schedule.

Good point. I don't think it is in any of the registration material. I'd be there no later than 7:00 AM. We'll get official information added to the guidelines and place that info on the web for next year. We've been using the same material for years and never noticed that there wasn't a schedule.
I think it used to say somewhere in the old mailed versions.

---Eric

The 2 DE's I've been to had the driver's meeting at 8. So as long as you got registered and teched before then you were fine.

Rain is no excuse not to attend. Rain is a great equalizer. .

very true...:)