So I'm just cruising on my way back from work tonight when I get to a stop light. A new white IS350 with a young guy in it pulls up and says to me "So, how many horses does that boat have?" I reply, "About 280." He smirks at me, revs his engine and says "306 in this baby" and proceeds to rev some more. Now I KNOW its on...doesn't matter if his car is 8 years newer than mine. I brake torque to about 2000rpms and floor it. I got a jump on him at first, but he started to slowly pull away, getting about 1/2 car length by the end of first. Into 2nd and hes not pulling but I'm not gaining either, and by the end of my 2nd gear (about 70mph) I've gained a little ground back. Going into 3rd I actually begin to close the gap and by the end of third (around 100mph) I've pulled even. When I get into 4th it almost seemed like he let off because by the time I hit my 130mph limiter, I had a good 2 to 2.5 cars on him. I was actually really suprised by this...didn't Car and Driver run low 5 0-60's and mid 13 sec 1/4 miles with the new IS? Anyway thats my kill story...please don't say something like "It must have been a 250" because I doubt the IS250 would be that quick.

P.S: is the 540iA 4th gear like a "magic" gear? Because I know LS1 F-body's have a third gear "magic" gear where it just pulls like a freight train.

Nice kill! I'd say LS1s have magic gears from 3-5.

IS 350 time based on the road and track mag
0-60: 6.0
1/4: 14.5sec @98.6mph
i think the race sounds about right

Definately the IS350. IS250 would be dead slow as the IS300 isn't that fast to begin with.

seems right. If the 1/4 is 14.5 @ 98.6 then that means it puts down speeds about what the e36 M3 does, but gets horrible launches. If you were 6 speeds you probably would've romped him from the get go.

Also bimmers do better than many cars on the road up top, that they are close to in the 1/4 mile. Toyota probably made tall gears up top, for fuel efficiency and smooth cruising.

Nice Kill!

Not sure about yours, but in my 540ia, 3rd is the serious pulling gear. When I hit 3rd, it is serious pulling time!

Get sharked to eliminate that limiter :devillook

Nice Kill!

Not sure about yours, but in my 540ia, 3rd is the serious pulling gear. When I hit 3rd, it is serious pulling time!

Get sharked to eliminate that limiter :devillook
it seems in nearly all bimmers, 3rd gears are actually our money gears. When I race faster cars than me, I can normally hang with them, until I hit 4th, then they pull like crazy.

My buddy who has an e46 m3, said that the few races he has had, when he is in 3rd, he has never lost.

nice run... I wonder if the 6 speed would fare any better....

I don't know about 4th being the strongest gear, I'm pretty sure third is. I raced and LS1 SS and I stayed with him pretty good in 3rd, but he pulled away pretty good in fourth.

You know believe it or not, this sounds like one of the most honestly wrote down stories. Some people including myself have sometimes over acted a bit in actually telling a story. I dont know if it is the adreline pumpimg while we all recall a barely won race, or if it just wanting to act like we have the most powerful car in the world. Either way well written good honest story. :cool

So I'm just cruising on my way back from work tonight when I get to a stop light. A new white IS350 with a young guy in it pulls up and says to me "So, how many horses does that boat have?" I reply, "About 280." He smirks at me, revs his engine and says "306 in this baby" and proceeds to rev some more. Now I KNOW its on...doesn't matter if his car is 8 years newer than mine. I brake torque to about 2000rpms and floor it. I got a jump on him at first, but he started to slowly pull away, getting about 1/2 car length by the end of first. Into 2nd and hes not pulling but I'm not gaining either, and by the end of my 2nd gear (about 70mph) I've gained a little ground back. Going into 3rd I actually begin to close the gap and by the end of third (around 100mph) I've pulled even. When I get into 4th it almost seemed like he let off because by the time I hit my 130mph limiter, I had a good 2 to 2.5 cars on him. I was actually really suprised by this...didn't Car and Driver run low 5 0-60's and mid 13 sec 1/4 miles with the new IS? Anyway thats my kill story...please don't say something like "It must have been a 250" because I doubt the IS250 would be that quick.

P.S: is the 540iA 4th gear like a "magic" gear? Because I know LS1 F-body's have a third gear "magic" gear where it just pulls like a freight train.

Do you have any mods, Fuze?

seems right. If the 1/4 is 14.5 @ 98.6 then that means it puts down speeds about what the e36 M3 does, but gets horrible launches. If you were 6 speeds you probably would've romped him from the get go.

Also bimmers do better than many cars on the road up top, that they are close to in the 1/4 mile. Toyota probably made tall gears up top, for fuel efficiency and smooth cruising.

I dunno what is up with 306hp, 277ft-lbs, and 14.5@98.6. I guess the test conditions were kind of unfriendly (93°F). It is rather heavy (3620lb curb weight, 3800lb as tested). I'm sure as more data comes out, the 1/4 may drift down a little.

The gear ratios are in the R&T article.

1: 3.52
2: 2.40
3: 1.40
4: 1.00
5: 0.72
6: 0.59
Final drive: 4.08

The overall gear ratios are actually more aggressive than an E36 M3 with a 3.23 differential, up to 5th gear. Of course, this is on account of the 4.08 rear end. Only 6th gear is kind of long, considering the final drive ratio.

I think the transmission shifts pretty deliberately, and the weight co-conspires with the transmission to slow it down. It looks to be a solid vehicle though.

If someone actually said that crap to me I'd just tell him to go F-off

hmmm, guess it's nothing like the IS300. Never had a problem with one of those but this new IS350 sounds like it would be more of a challenge.

If someone actually said that crap to me I'd just tell him to go F-off

.

Must be a Northeast thing. :D

Yeah, first insulting my car by calling it a boat, then saying such tripe as "306 in this baby" as if I was supposed to bow down and apply some Chap Stick, that'd likely be my response too. Then again, he was probably trying to incite a race. :D

Maybe you shoulda mentioned that the new Impala SS has 3 less hp.

should have told him... " I like your Prius"

"Is that the new Toyota hybrid?" :D

"Is that the new Toyota hybrid?" :D
:lol omg, that would've been classic! :lol3

^^^^:rofl :rofl

I'm about as stock as it gets, only thing on this car are the newer tail lights and cleared out corners that came with the car. I'm planning on getting a slight drop and some Breyton Spirits soon though.

So I'm just cruising on my way back from work tonight when I get to a stop light. A new white IS350 with a young guy in it pulls up and says to me "So, how many horses does that boat have?" I reply, "About 280." He smirks at me, revs his engine and says "306 in this baby" and proceeds to rev some more. Now I KNOW its on...doesn't matter if his car is 8 years newer than mine. I brake torque to about 2000rpms and floor it. I got a jump on him at first, but he started to slowly pull away, getting about 1/2 car length by the end of first. Into 2nd and hes not pulling but I'm not gaining either, and by the end of my 2nd gear (about 70mph) I've gained a little ground back. Going into 3rd I actually begin to close the gap and by the end of third (around 100mph) I've pulled even. When I get into 4th it almost seemed like he let off because by the time I hit my 130mph limiter, I had a good 2 to 2.5 cars on him. I was actually really suprised by this...didn't Car and Driver run low 5 0-60's and mid 13 sec 1/4 miles with the new IS? Anyway thats my kill story...please don't say something like "It must have been a 250" because I doubt the IS250 would be that quick.
P.S: is the 540iA 4th gear like a "magic" gear? Because I know LS1 F-body's have a third gear "magic" gear where it just pulls like a freight train.

i thought they were supposed to be released on the 14th of October? if this race happened on the 5th, it's not possible.

IS 350 time based on the road and track mag
0-60: 6.0
1/4: 14.5sec @98.6mph
i think the race sounds about right

i drove the new IS350 at the dealership and it seems like it was about even with an e46 M3 with the edge to the M3 of course but not much. also, it's a little faster than my e36 M3.

those times were taken when the weather wasn't really cooperating (hot) look on the same rag and take a look at the time they put on e90 330i.......if i'm not mistaken it was 6.5

i thought they were supposed to be released on the 14th of October? if this race happened on the 5th, it's not possible.

I've seen one on the streets before the 14th.

I've seen one on the streets before the 14th.

must be one of those pre production cars but how it got to the hands of this young guy is my question i guess. a lot of people in the IS community have driven the new IS but with Lexus supervision...........

I think car and driver has the new is350 at 13.7 in the 1/4 mile. Sounds impressive

I think car and driver has the new is350 at 13.7 in the 1/4 mile. Sounds impressive

Yeah that's the time I saw in C&D. The IS350 is nothing to sneeze at.

As for the IS300, it uses the 2JZGE and has 220hp. There's quite a few out there NA-T and some even do a GTE conversion. :devillook

The new IS looks great. I'd take it over a 330i.

Had a chance to drive it hard at Taste of Lexus 2 weeks ago. It feels much faster than the 330i but once u turn the car you know why BMW are so nice. I would think the IS350 is faster than the 540 by a few.

nice run... I wonder if the 6 speed would fare any better....
It would.
The IS can hit 60 in 5.6, and do the 1/4 in the lower 14's or 13's, but either way, 540 will beat it up top.

The new IS looks great. I'd take it over a 330i.
I wouldn't.

It would.
The IS can hit 60 in 5.6, and do the 1/4 in the lower 14's or 13's, but either way, 540 will beat it up top.

I respect your opinion but listen to people who have driven the car.........

Had a chance to drive it hard at Taste of Lexus 2 weeks ago. It feels much faster than the 330i but once u turn the car you know why BMW are so nice. I would think the IS350 is faster than the 540 by a few.

I respect your opinion but listen to people who have driven the car.........


How many and which 540is has he driven? I went to the taste of Lexus in Chicago last weekend and down low the 540i can hold it's own against a IS350. I could deffinitely see myself walking the IS350 on the highway.

I would stop the magazine racing. When they tested the 540i, it was trapping 102 mph. 2-3 mph difference is a lot.

I dunno what is up with 306hp, 277ft-lbs, and 14.5@98.6. I guess the test conditions were kind of unfriendly (93°F). It is rather heavy (3620lb curb weight, 3800lb as tested).

3800lbs!!!! That is ridiculous for a car that size. No wonder it's doggish.

I'm about as stock as it gets, only thing on this car are the newer tail lights and cleared out corners that came with the car. I'm planning on getting a slight drop and some Breyton Spirits soon though.

that's good for another 20hp :lol

i drove the new IS350 at the dealership and it seems like it was about even with an e46 M3 with the edge to the M3 of course but not much. also, it's a little faster than my e36 M3.
those times were taken when the weather wasn't really cooperating (hot) look on the same rag and take a look at the time they put on e90 330i.......if i'm not mistaken it was 6.5

an IS350 even with an E46 M3? It can't be!:confused

an IS350 even with an E46 M3? It can't be!:confused

.............:eyecrazy that's ok.......read ...it...again... but this time verrrrrry slowwwwwwwly;) you can do it!:evil2 :buttrock

3800lbs!!!! That is ridiculous for a car that size. No wonder it's doggish.

check this out.......
http://lexus.com/models/is/specifications.html

3527..ouch......pig of weight...my 00 LS400 is 3800 lbs

How many and which 540is has he driven? I went to the taste of Lexus in Chicago last weekend and down low the 540i can hold it's own against a IS350. I could deffinitely see myself walking the IS350 on the highway.
I would stop the magazine racing. When they tested the 540i, it was trapping 102 mph. 2-3 mph difference is a lot.

it's too early to tell..........but yeah you're right 2-3 mph is a lot because from the test that they did to IS350, it was trapping between 99-104. i guess it depends on where and when they did the tests.;)

once they figured out how to defeat the vdim and a manual tranny then maybe we'll have a more accurate assesment on the IS.....

.............:eyecrazy that's ok.......read ...it...again... but this time verrrrrry slowwwwwwwly;) you can do it!:evil2 :buttrock

I'm suprised you skipped my post.

I drove the IS350 this weekend, and it might beat a 540i by a car at the most to 60. Over 3700 lbs with the driver and ony 277 lb/ft of torque really don't help it much. Plus, Lexus is known to overrate their hp anyway. The GS400 supposedly had 300 hp and that car was a dog compared to the 540i, which supposedly had 18 less hp and weighed more.

The IS350 is a nice car, but it will get walked with speed. Next time, try driving either one of these cars in question before you continue magazine racing.

I'm suprised you skipped my post.
I drove the IS350 this weekend, and it might beat a 540i by a car at the most to 60. Over 3700 lbs with the driver and ony 277 lb/ft of torque really don't help it much. Plus, Lexus is known to overrate their hp anyway. The GS400 supposedly had 300 hp and that car was a dog compared to the 540i, which supposedly had 18 less hp and weighed more.
The IS350 is a nice car, but it will get walked with speed. Next time, try driving either one of these cars in question before you continue magazine racing.

i'm not magazine racing i hate magazines........what are you talking about? i was talking from experience and i guess i'm basing specs on the lexus website:shifty and to tell you the truth Lexus based their hp on the new system. just like what they did to the new honda civic si and acura cars to name a few. :rolleyes

plus i have an e36 M3 and i know what it can do to 540s. on top of that i've driven a few 540s. so i know what i'm talking about and not from some magazine......

i'm not magazine racing i hate magazines........what are you talking about? i was talking from experience and i guess i'm basing specs on the lexus website:shifty and to tell you the truth Lexus based their hp on the new system. just like what they did to the new honda civic si. :rolleyes

So how much of that HP is actually getting to the wheels? On the GS400 that I drove, it felt like it had 50 less hp (at the crank) than the advertised 300.

I've seen stock 540is dyno between 260-270 whp and around 300 lb/ft of torque. The 540i isn't much heavier and is geared for the highway. What exactly makes the IS350 faster? I would really love to race one and get it on video.

I'm not saying that the 540i is faster or that it will have better 1/4 mile times, but it will be a drivers race, and from experience when a race is close to 60, usually I beat people in third and 4th because those are the best 2 gears and most other cars are not geared for that type of driving. And I doubt that Lexus (just like Acura and Infinity) turned the car into a highway cruiser.

But anyway, we'll just have to wait and see. Those are my impressions from owning a 540i and driving the IS350 during the taste of Lexus.

So how much of that HP is actually getting to the wheels? On the GS400 that I drove, it felt like it had 50 less hp (at the crank) than the advertised 300.

I've been to TOL here in socal and i've driven the 350 a few times myself. and from my own experience i am sold that the 350 is faster than the e36 M3 and a few mods away from getting into e46 M3 territory.;)


I've seen stock 540is dyno between 260-270 whp and around 300 lb/ft of torque. The 540i isn't much heavier and is geared for the highway. What exactly makes the IS350 faster? I would really love to race one and get it on video.

to tell you the truth i don't know what they dyno but if we calculate using the old system (dyno) it will be at least 315hp.....so maybe it's really 306 but we'll never know until they put it on the dyno to get the whp...

I'm not saying that the 540i is faster or that it will have better 1/4 mile times, but it will be a drivers race, and from experience when a race is close to 60, usually I beat people in third and 4th because those are the best 2 gears and most other cars are not geared for that type of driving. And I doubt that Lexus (just like Acura and Infinity) turned the car into a highway cruiser.

i'm not saying that the 350 is faster either......but as far as gearing goes, the last IS (300) is better geared up top so there goes your theory......

IS 350:
- 3.5-liter (210 cubic inches), four-cam, four valves per cylinder 60º V6 engine. Certified Ultra-Low Emission Vehicle (ULEV II)
- 306 hp @ 6,400 rpm, 277 lb-ft torque @ 4,800 rpm
- Continuously Variable Valve Timing with intelligence (VVT-i) on intake and exhaust valves
- 0 to 60 in 5.3 seconds
- Top track speed: 142 mph (electronically limited)
- Aerodynamic drag coefficient: 0.28
- Six-speed sequential-shift automatic Electronically Controlled Transmission with intelligence (ECT-i)
- Rear-wheel drive with standard Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management (VDIM)
- Estimated fuel consumption: 21/28 mpg city/highway
- Unibody made of lead
- Electronic vehicle-speed-sensing, progressive power-assisted rack-and-pinion steering. 2.9 turns lock-to-lock
- Front suspension: Independent, double-wishbone with coil springs, gas-pressurized shock absorbers and hollow stabilizer bar
- Rear suspension: Independent, multi-link with coil springs, gas-pressurized shock absorbers and stabilizer bar
- 17 x 8.0-in alloy wheels with 225/45VR17 all-season tires front, 245/45VR17 all-season tires rear

I'm guessing those all-season tires, have something todo with the 1/4 mile times. I'm sure the timeslips will start rolling in when people swap on stickier rubber.

IS 350's run 13.6 - 13.7. 540s run 14.3(this is the best time i have ever seen). So lets think, i think if anything he would have pulled two cars on you!!!!:buttrock

IS 350's run 13.6 - 13.7. 540s run 14.3(this is the best time i have ever seen). So lets think, i think if anything he would have pulled two cars on you!!!!:buttrock

That's the best time you ever seen? Even a magazine ran a 14.0 @ 102 mph.

That's the best time you ever seen? Even a magazine ran a 14.0 @ 102 mph.


you said it yourself.....:nono no magazine racing:nono :evil2 the guy is talking about real life experience here......:D we're talking stock here not mildly modified or an intake or exhaust or anything like that. from what i see at the strip and on this forum i can honestly say that they were similar to an e36 M3 when it comes to 1/4 times.....

you said it yourself.....:nono no magazine racing:nono :evil2 the guy is talking about real life experience here......:D we're talking stock here not mildly modified or an intake or exhaust or anything like that. from what i see at the strip and on this forum i can honestly say that they were similar to an e36 M3 when it comes to 1/4 times.....

No, I mean the 13.7 is a magazine time since we've never seen one at a track.

E36 against 540i, usually the M3 gets the jump on this one and the 540i plays catch up. Times are about the same, but the 540is usually trap a couple of mphs higher. From a roll, stock against stock, the 540i should walk an M3 with speed.

I respect your opinion but listen to people who have driven the car.........

That's comparing it to a 330. The 330 (0-60 in 5.6 according to CD) is slower, but that doesn't change the fact that I'd still take a 330 over the is350. Plus, 540's have given m3's a hard time in the triples. That's why I don't doubt that the 540 would beat an IS up top. I respect your opinion, but read carefully:stickoutt Just playing.

And I have driven a 540, but admittedly, an e34.

I'm agreeing with Amoo here. Until we see one on a dyno and at the stip we wont know for sure, but I have a hard time believing that a 3800 lb. car with a auto tranny and 277 lb ft of torque can go 0-60 in 5.3 seconds. Especially a lexus which is notorious for getting about the least amount of performance out of a car as possible. And no, I havn't driven an IS350, and my parents both own lexus' so it's not that I'm hating :stickoutt

I'm agreeing with Amoo here. Until we see one on a dyno and at the stip we wont know for sure, but I have a hard time believing that a 3800 lb. car with a auto tranny and 277 lb ft of torque can go 0-60 in 5.3 seconds. Especially a lexus which is notorious for getting about the least amount of performance out of a car as possible. And no, I havn't driven an IS350, and my parents both own lexus' so it's not that I'm hating :stickoutt


I agree with everything you said except the new IS weigh 3500 not 3800:eyecrazy

I would just like to add that I think Lexus's are junk. I think every component on them looks tacky and made to look "over-engineered" so they can be visually different than their Toyota counterparts, but not really any better in quality. Especially their wood trims. And obviosly they don't hold a candle to the feel and soul of European cars. I don't know how people drive these cars. A few family members have them and I can't stand driving/riding in them. blaahhh!

I would just like to add that I think Lexus's are junk. I think every component on them looks tacky and made to look "over-engineered" so they can be visually different than their Toyota counterparts, but not really any better in quality. Especially their wood trims. And obviosly they don't hold a candle to the feel and soul of European cars. I don't know how people drive these cars. A few family members have them and I can't stand driving/riding in them. blaahhh!

Lexus are junk? That's news to me! If BMWs were reliable as Lexus I wouldn't even consider other makes.

I would just like to add that I think Lexus's are junk. I think every component on them looks tacky and made to look "over-engineered" so they can be visually different than their Toyota counterparts, but not really any better in quality. Especially their wood trims. And obviosly they don't hold a candle to the feel and soul of European cars. I don't know how people drive these cars. A few family members have them and I can't stand driving/riding in them. blaahhh!

you just made a complete fool of yourself......:eek: ..........................and i'll give you :fartman :smile9

I would just like to add that I think Lexus's are junk. I think every component on them looks tacky and made to look "over-engineered" so they can be visually different than their Toyota counterparts, but not really any better in quality. Especially their wood trims. And obviosly they don't hold a candle to the feel and soul of European cars. I don't know how people drive these cars. A few family members have them and I can't stand driving/riding in them. blaahhh!

Lexus' have some of the nicest interiors of all makes (excluding Maybach, AM, Bentley, RR, etc.). Only thing I can agree with is that they lack the feel of BMW's and other German cars.

edit: sorry I hit the 8 when on went for the 5 on the keypad :stickoutt

I personally thinl the old is300's were (and still are) complete junk. Those things drove horribly and felt and looked like a restyled econobox to me. The older sc's and ls' were nice though and one of my friends will be picking up a gs430 soon which I would hope has a damn nice interior. (BTW, we will definitely race as soon as he gets the car and knowing him porbably before he breaks it in.)

I would just like to add that I think Lexus's are junk. I think every component on them looks tacky and made to look "over-engineered" so they can be visually different than their Toyota counterparts, but not really any better in quality. Especially their wood trims. And obviosly they don't hold a candle to the feel and soul of European cars. I don't know how people drive these cars. A few family members have them and I can't stand driving/riding in them. blaahhh!

Lexus' are arguably the best made/most reliable cars in the world. The GS has been awarded the most reliable car award 8 years in a row and the Lexus manufacturing plant has been rated the best/most reliable plant ever.

So I have no idea what you're talking about..

Lexus' are arguably the best made/most reliable cars in the world. The GS has been awarded the most reliable car award 8 years in a row and the Lexus manufacturing plant has been rated the best/most reliable plant ever.

So I have no idea what you're talking about..
I think everyone missed sewickleyBMW's point (or perhaps Im just reading it my own way). Regardless, it seems to me that he is commenting more on the appearance rather than the actual reliability of the moving components. I wouldnt argue lexus' arent reliable because that is just foolish; however, I will say that the is300 in particular has a cheap or even "junk" look and feel to it. I could honestly care less if the thing will run worry free for 200k miles if I cant stand to sit and drive the vehicle. My 540 may not run as reliably as the is300; however, it brings a smile to my face everytime I get in it and start the engine. Every piece on the car, short of the cupholders at least, screams quality to me even after 6 years of wear and tear.

I think everyone missed sewickleyBMW's point (or perhaps Im just reading it my own way). Regardless, it seems to me that he is commenting more on the appearance rather than the actual reliability of the moving components. I wouldnt argue lexus' arent reliable because that is just foolish; however, I will say that the is300 in particular has a cheap or even "junk" look and feel to it. I could honestly care less if the thing will run worry free for 200k miles if I cant stand to sit and drive the vehicle. My 540 may not run as reliably as the is300; however, it brings a smile to my face everytime I get in it and start the engine. Every piece on the car, short of the cupholders at least, screams quality to me even after 6 years of wear and tear.

Yeah, I noticed he mentioned the quality of the interior. But going as far as calling the whole brand JUNK, is completely wrong.

So I'm just cruising on my way back from work tonight when I get to a stop light. A new white IS350 with a young guy in it pulls up and says to me "So, how many horses does that boat have?" I reply, "About 280." He smirks at me, revs his engine and says "306 in this baby" and proceeds to rev some more. Now I KNOW its on...doesn't matter if his car is 8 years newer than mine. I brake torque to about 2000rpms and floor it. I got a jump on him at first, but he started to slowly pull away, getting about 1/2 car length by the end of first. Into 2nd and hes not pulling but I'm not gaining either, and by the end of my 2nd gear (about 70mph) I've gained a little ground back. Going into 3rd I actually begin to close the gap and by the end of third (around 100mph) I've pulled even. When I get into 4th it almost seemed like he let off because by the time I hit my 130mph limiter, I had a good 2 to 2.5 cars on him. I was actually really suprised by this...didn't Car and Driver run low 5 0-60's and mid 13 sec 1/4 miles with the new IS? Anyway thats my kill story...please don't say something like "It must have been a 250" because I doubt the IS250 would be that quick.
P.S: is the 540iA 4th gear like a "magic" gear? Because I know LS1 F-body's have a third gear "magic" gear where it just pulls like a freight train.


Nice run. From what I've read and Mostly heard the is350 is a quick car. Glad you were able to surpise him. :nono

I personally thinl the old is300's were (and still are) complete junk. Those things drove horribly and felt and looked like a restyled econobox to me. The older sc's and ls' were nice though and one of my friends will be picking up a gs430 soon which I would hope has a damn nice interior. (BTW, we will definitely race as soon as he gets the car and knowing him porbably before he breaks it in.)

.......i guess you are entitled to your own opinion especially the way a car looked but to say it's a complete junk without spending a lot of time to know the car is just plain ignorance. ;) btw, chech this sitehttp://my.is/forums/showthread.php?t=267761 so you would know that auto-xing champion uses stock IS300

i'm not saying it is the best car in the world but at least know the car first before saying anything stupid. i agree that it's appearance may not be for all but driving it is a whole different ball game. i can run around your 5er all day long. lmk, i'm in san diego if you want to experience it.:devillook

.......i guess you are entitled to your own opinion especially the way a car looked but to say it's a complete junk without spending a lot of time to know the car is just plain ignorance. ;) btw, chech this sitehttp://my.is/forums/showthread.php?t=267761 so you would know that auto-xing champion uses stock IS300

i'm not saying it is the best car in the world but at least know the car first before saying anything stupid. i agree that it's appearance may not be for all but driving it is a whole different ball game. i can run around your 5er all day long. lmk, i'm in san diego if you want to experience it.:devillook
I really should have said felt like complete junk. TO me it is one of those cars that may be reliable and may take some turns d*mn well if you know what you are doing, but it still didn't feel right to me. THat is just my opinion though and I'm not going to say anyone is wrong if they disagree with me.


As for running around the 5er all day long, we will have to see about that ;)

Nice kill, show that rice burner whos boss. :buttrock

I was not knocking their reliability. They are very reliable. But as a whole, they do nothing for me.

Say it like that the first time^

i drove the new IS350 at the dealership and it seems like it was about even with an e46 M3 with the edge to the M3 of course but not much. also, it's a little faster than my e36 M3.
those times were taken when the weather wasn't really cooperating (hot) look on the same rag and take a look at the time they put on e90 330i.......if i'm not mistaken it was 6.5
How can the IS350 be about even with an e46 M3 if you're saying it's a little faster than your e36 M3? e46 m3 does 0-60 in less than 5s, and e36 m3 is around high 5s, right?

How can the IS350 be about even with an e46 M3 if you're saying it's a little faster than your e36 M3? e46 m3 does 0-60 in less than 5s, and e36 m3 is around high 5s, right?

i don't really care about 0-60 times but to answer your question........
0-60
e36 M3 = approx 5.5 (best i've seen/read)
e46 M3 = approx 4.7 (best i've seen/read)
IS350 = approx 5.1 (best i've seen/read)

now i've driven all three cars and those times are somewhat accurate......on my e36 M3 i raced an IS350 and lost by a couple of cars to 120. i have also raced many e46 M3s and lost by a minimum of 3cl to triple digits speed.

now, a guy on myis.com added and exhaust system and yielded 22rwhp just from the exhaust alone and he's got dyno to prove it......now with that said, i think an is350 with this exhaust will be close if not even with an e46 M3. even without the exhaust it will be close because the average 1/4 time for IS is around 13.6-13.8 stock (for an average driver anyway).

sorry to bring this up but i was searching for some old thread and found this instead:evil2

Well, if anyones opinion should mean anything, I hope mine does ;)

I went from an 02 M Coupe (S54) modified with intake, exhaust, dinan chip and full suspension to an 06 IS 350.

Before you guys start screaming let me throw in my .02 cents ;)

The first replacement pick for my M Coupe was the 06 Z06 - unfortunately, Local Chevy dealership lacked inventory and those who actually had 1 or 2 wanted a 10-15k mark-up!! :eyecrazy Yes, the car is nice, but I'm not stupid enough to pay 15k over sticker for a Chevy; hell BMW dealers were asking 10k over for the M5!

As a previous owner of what many BMW owners considers the best design in BMW history, I find the current BMW design nothing less than hideous; so the decision to leave the BMW family was effortless and easy.

It just so happened that I wanted something a little more practical than my M Coupe; that is what drew me to the Lexus line of cars. Of course coming from an M Coupe I wasn't exactly looking forward to buying a large full size sedan, so the IS was just the size I was looking for - and reasonably priced too.

After getting inside one and checking out all the features, I pretty much made my decision. The decision was made in lieu of the test drive; but the test drive sealed the deal. I honestly cannot think of a better car for under 50k.

300+ hp car, lexus reliability, and a slew of features to compliment the vehicle and not to mention it drives great! Maybe by next year Chevy will start dropping their stupid mark-up and I'll get the Z06 as a second car or trade in this one; but until then I'm perfectly happy with the decision to replace my BMW.

Honestly I cannot vouche for quality comparison between BMW and Lexus, I can only base that on other owners experience. My BMW was nothing but reliable up to the 70k mark when I got rid of it. Only issue I ever had was the engine blowing up at 47k miles which was replaced under warranty. :lol

Yes, coming from an M Coupe, the Lexus handling was unresponsive to say the least, but then again - if you drove the M Coupe with modified suspension you would probably feel the same way with an E46 M3 :devillook

The Acceleration from the IS350 is pretty remarkable, especially low end. Top end pull was effortless and smooth throughout all the gears and powerband. Gear shifting is quite entertaining with the paddle shifters and with 6 gears to go through, you have plenty of torque for any situation.

The car with 1/4 tank of gas suprised the hell out of me when I launched it a few nights ago. First time launching the car with 1,500 miles on the odometer I didn't know what to expect - I'm pretty sure it will beat the 350Z and anything in the Infinity line of cars, but I have my doubts about anything S54 powered :)

i don't really care about 0-60 times but to answer your question........
0-60
e36 M3 = approx 5.5 (best i've seen/read)
e46 M3 = approx 4.7 (best i've seen/read)
IS350 = approx 5.1 (best i've seen/read)

now i've driven all three cars and those times are somewhat accurate......on my e36 M3 i raced an IS350 and lost by a couple of cars to 120. i have also raced many e46 M3s and lost by a minimum of 3cl to triple digits speed.

now, a guy on myis.com added and exhaust system and yielded 22rwhp just from the exhaust alone and he's got dyno to prove it......now with that said, i think an is350 with this exhaust will be close if not even with an e46 M3. even without the exhaust it will be close because the average 1/4 time for IS is around 13.6-13.8 stock (for an average driver anyway).

sorry to bring this up but i was searching for some old thread and found this instead:evil2

You THINK it might be faster than an E46 M3.
E46 M3 > IS350

I'm going to put an end to this right now. I raced a black 350is on Monday from a 40 mph roll and won easily. And think about it for a second, it makes sense. The car is a pig and it is at about a 50ft/lb torque deficiency. Furthermore, I don't know how well that power gets to the wheels but I'll tell you there aren't a lot of settups that deliver power better than the 6 spd Getrag tranny in the 540. I know C&D rated this that and the other thing... But I really don't care. Lexus has a habit of overrating their cars, and even if you do accept the C&D times, the car was still trapping quite a bit slower than the 540 at the end of the 1/4. That pretty much supports this guy's telling of the race. He said the Lexus got ahead then he walked back on him. I don't think he's lying and he's got an automatic which means that a manual, with more efficient power delivery, and another gear, is going to beat the Lexus hands down. Sorry to all the Lexus owners who have come out of the woodwork to defend this car. I'm sure you enjoy it and more power to you. However, my almost 10 year old BMW (which wasn't even the fastest 5 produced that year, ah hem M5) beats your brand new car. And new BMW performance models which is what you should be comparing to if you are going to talk about a rivalry between brands, for instance the M6 M5 and M3 are all going to eat your Lexus like a fat kid eating a pop-tart. So enjoy your car, but don't go thinking that Lexus is going to challenge BMW any time soon as a maker of sports sedans.

I'm going to put an end to this right now. I raced a black 350is on Monday from a 40 mph roll and won easily. And think about it for a second, it makes sense. The car is a pig and it is at about a 50ft/lb torque deficiency. Furthermore, I don't know how well that power gets to the wheels but I'll tell you there aren't a lot of settups that deliver power better than the 6 spd Getrag tranny in the 540. I know C&D rated this that and the other thing... But I really don't care. Lexus has a habit of overrating their cars, and even if you do accept the C&D times, the car was still trapping quite a bit slower than the 540 at the end of the 1/4. That pretty much supports this guy's telling of the race. He said the Lexus got ahead then he walked back on him. I don't think he's lying and he's got an automatic which means that a manual, with more efficient power delivery, and another gear, is going to beat the Lexus hands down. Sorry to all the Lexus owners who have come out of the woodwork to defend this car. I'm sure you enjoy it and more power to you. However, my almost 10 year old BMW (which wasn't even the fastest 5 produced that year, ah hem M5) beats your brand new car. And new BMW performance models which is what you should be comparing to if you are going to talk about a rivalry between brands, for instance the M6 M5 and M3 are all going to eat your Lexus like a fat kid eating a pop-tart. So enjoy your car, but don't go thinking that Lexus is going to challenge BMW any time soon as a maker of sports sedans.

And i'm not saying your race with a 350 didn't happen and it was just your illusion:evil2 but if you don't have any mods then it's just probably your illusion.:lol

and oh believe me, i don't think that a 350 have any chance with any new M in BMWs lineup. i was just telling you what i THINK would happen based upon my experiences with these cars. i have a neighbor who happens to have a 350 and he's willing to run if you're anywhere near san diego.

but i'm telling you, based on our races my e36 M3 (slightly modded) vs IS350 (stock) he pulled on me ever so slightly until we let go @ approx 120and ended up being a minimum of 2cl............now, a 540i 6 spd vs e36 M3 (again based on my experience) i would usually put a car on a 540i until 3rd gear where it would start to gain back the cl but not until triple digits.

so based on those races, i would think that an IS350 would put at least a cl to a 540i and keep it until 11xish...........not the other way around.

this is stock 350 now, again i'm not comparing it to any bmw model other than the 540i.

You THINK it might be faster than an E46 M3.
E46 M3 > IS350

it's too early to tell but based on some new mods for the IS350 an exhaust like i said yielded 22 rwhp, intake 12 rwhp but only made 22rwhp combined. i think an safc would find the lost 12 whp. that would put it over a stock e46 M3s base whp. btw, a base 350 usually have around 265 whp, add that 34 whp or even the 22 and you're goint to be approx 287 whp..........do the math. but even with the hp advantage over a stock e46 M3 i still think it would be close.

http://www.clublexus.com/gallery/data/3376/medium/IS_350_Joe_Z_Dyno_027a.jpg

Well, if anyones opinion should mean anything, I hope mine does ;)

I went from an 02 M Coupe (S54) modified with intake, exhaust, dinan chip and full suspension to an 06 IS 350.

Before you guys start screaming let me throw in my .02 cents ;)

The first replacement pick for my M Coupe was the 06 Z06 - unfortunately, Local Chevy dealership lacked inventory and those who actually had 1 or 2 wanted a 10-15k mark-up!! :eyecrazy Yes, the car is nice, but I'm not stupid enough to pay 15k over sticker for a Chevy; hell BMW dealers were asking 10k over for the M5!

As a previous owner of what many BMW owners considers the best design in BMW history, I find the current BMW design nothing less than hideous; so the decision to leave the BMW family was effortless and easy.

It just so happened that I wanted something a little more practical than my M Coupe; that is what drew me to the Lexus line of cars. Of course coming from an M Coupe I wasn't exactly looking forward to buying a large full size sedan, so the IS was just the size I was looking for - and reasonably priced too.

After getting inside one and checking out all the features, I pretty much made my decision. The decision was made in lieu of the test drive; but the test drive sealed the deal. I honestly cannot think of a better car for under 50k.

300+ hp car, lexus reliability, and a slew of features to compliment the vehicle and not to mention it drives great! Maybe by next year Chevy will start dropping their stupid mark-up and I'll get the Z06 as a second car or trade in this one; but until then I'm perfectly happy with the decision to replace my BMW.

Honestly I cannot vouche for quality comparison between BMW and Lexus, I can only base that on other owners experience. My BMW was nothing but reliable up to the 70k mark when I got rid of it. Only issue I ever had was the engine blowing up at 47k miles which was replaced under warranty. :lol

Yes, coming from an M Coupe, the Lexus handling was unresponsive to say the least, but then again - if you drove the M Coupe with modified suspension you would probably feel the same way with an E46 M3 :devillook

The Acceleration from the IS350 is pretty remarkable, especially low end. Top end pull was effortless and smooth throughout all the gears and powerband. Gear shifting is quite entertaining with the paddle shifters and with 6 gears to go through, you have plenty of torque for any situation.

The car with 1/4 tank of gas suprised the hell out of me when I launched it a few nights ago. First time launching the car with 1,500 miles on the odometer I didn't know what to expect - I'm pretty sure it will beat the 350Z and anything in the Infinity line of cars, but I have my doubts about anything S54 powered :)

i should have read what you said.............it would have saved me a lot of time.:D

And i'm not saying your race with a 350 didn't happen and it was just your illusion:evil2 but if you don't have any mods then it's just probably your illusion.:lol

and oh believe me, i don't think that a 350 have any chance with any new M in BMWs lineup. i was just telling you what i THINK would happen based upon my experiences with these cars. i have a neighbor who happens to have a 350 and he's willing to run if you're anywhere near san diego.

but i'm telling you, based on our races my e36 M3 (slightly modded) vs IS350 (stock) he pulled on me ever so slightly until we let go @ approx 120and ended up being a minimum of 2cl............now, a 540i 6 spd vs e36 M3 (again based on my experience) i would usually put a car on a 540i until 3rd gear where it would start to gain back the cl but not until triple digits.

so based on those races, i would think that an IS350 would put at least a cl to a 540i and keep it until 11xish...........not the other way around.

this is stock 350 now, again i'm not comparing it to any bmw model other than the 540i.

The bit about the M's was addressed to those who wanted to compare Lexus as a brand to BMW.

As for the race, I'm not David Copperfield. I don't do illusions. I won. That's all there is too it. You can "think" all you want and "think" anything you want, but sadly you are just wrong. I beat E36 M3's when they are stock and I beat 350Z's when they are stock and as of Monday, I know I can beat IS350's too. I don't know how "lightly" modded your E36 is, but if it is near stock you won't beat a 540i/6 unless the person you raced can't drive. Just look at some trap times if you don't believe me. 2-5mph trap difference, which is about what you are talking about between the E36 M3 and the 540. This means that at around 100mph the 540i will move on the M3 like the M3 was standing still and the 540 was doing 2-5mph. 2-5mph is pretty slow but it sure makes up a car length ~16ft in a big hurry. Read the writing on the wall... The M62 is underrated, the Lexus is overrated. The 540 has an incredibly efficient drivetrain and the Lexus has a clutchless slushbox. You won't win this race. You might possibly manage to jump ahead in the beginning, but once I get into 3rd-5th, I'm taking it back. And sadly, I can't prove it because I'm on the east coast which obviously, is no where near San Diego.

Edit: I didn't realize you posted a dyno sheet. hwl328i made 252rwhp 282rwtq with his 99 540i when it was stock and he has a dyno sheet. So I guess it should be clear to you by now that at the wheels a 540 is a more powerful car. Get the point yet? If not, let me spell it out for you: 265rwhp & 236rwtq<252rwhp & 282rwtq in cars of comparable weights. And in case you think I'm making that up too here's a link to his dyno sheet. http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2275934 Where's the illusion now? I hope your words taste good because I guess now you're going to be eating them.

The bit about the M's was addressed to those who wanted to compare Lexus as a brand to BMW.

As for the race, I'm not David Copperfield. I don't do illusions. I won. That's all there is too it. You can "think" all you want and "think" anything you want, but sadly you are just wrong. I beat E36 M3's when they are stock and I beat 350Z's when they are stock and as of Monday, I know I can beat IS350's too.?

here a video of a modded 350Z vs IS350.....

he's on the left, http://youtube.com/watch?v=clgqqp90Wzw

you see you only beat stock 350z but an IS can beat a modded 350z



I don't know how "lightly" modded your E36 is, but if it is near stock you won't beat a 540i/6 unless the person you raced can't drive. Just look at some trap times if you don't believe me. 2-5mph trap difference, which is about what you are talking about between the E36 M3 and the 540.

my M3 traps @ 102+ so i know what a 2-5 mph trap difference can do......just around most 540i.



This means that at around 100mph the 540i will move on the M3 like the M3 was standing still and the 540 was doing 2-5mph. 2-5mph is pretty slow but it sure makes up a car length ~16ft in a big hurry. Read the writing on the wall...

what? someone with an e36 M3 race this guy already.........he'll pass you like you were standing still:lol :lol :lol you're so full of it:shifty


Edit: I didn't realize you posted a dyno sheet. hwl328i made 252rwhp 282rwtq with his 99 540i when it was stock and he has a dyno sheet. So I guess it should be clear to you by now that at the wheels a 540 is a more powerful car. Get the point yet? If not, let me spell it out for you: 265rwhp & 236rwtq<252rwhp & 282rwtq in cars of comparable weights. Where's the illusion now?

what? 265-252 = 13rwhp more on the IS350............torque isn't much of a deal because once you're moving hp takes over. torque only matters when starting from a dig but your car is approx 200 lbs heavier so it needs that torque......apparently, somewhere in your 540 front seat.:evil2

If hp matters so much more than weight when you're moving, how would an e36 m3 pass his 540 like he was standing still? The 540 has a 40hp or so advantage.

Funny how the subject of torque always comes up.

Btw, what is the final drive ratio of the 540? We already know the drive ratio of the IS 350 is 4.XX something.

Having said that, a higher final drive will make up for the lack of torque, and a close geared ratio transmission will balance it out, in the case of the IS 350, it is pretty well done.

Hopefully this will answer the torque deficiency subject.

If hp matters so much more than weight when you're moving, how would an e36 m3 pass his 540 like he was standing still? The 540 has a 40hp or so advantage.

you got it backwards............he said he will pass an e36 M3 with his all mighty 540i like it was standing still:confused

Funny how the subject of torque always comes up.

Btw, what is the final drive ratio of the 540? We already know the drive ratio of the IS 350 is 4.XX something.

Having said that, a higher final drive will make up for the lack of torque, and a close geared ratio transmission will balance it out, in the case of the IS 350, it is pretty well done.

Hopefully this will answer the torque deficiency subject.

540i have 2.81 and thanks for clearing that up...........doesn't know that a 350 have that high of a drive ratio....

it's too early to tell but based on some new mods for the IS350 an exhaust like i said yielded 22 rwhp, intake 12 rwhp but only made 22rwhp combined. i think an safc would find the lost 12 whp. that would put it over a stock e46 M3s base whp. btw, a base 350 usually have around 265 whp, add that 34 whp or even the 22 and you're goint to be approx 287 whp..........do the math. but even with the hp advantage over a stock e46 M3 i still think it would be close.

http://www.clublexus.com/gallery/data/3376/medium/IS_350_Joe_Z_Dyno_027a.jpg

Horsepower alone doesn't mean a thing.
There are also those little things called weight and handling.

BMW E46 M3
Power : 333hp
0-60 : 4.7s-4.9s
Top speed : 155mph (limited) - 180mph (without limiter)
Weight : 3415 lbs
1/4 : 12.8s-13.5s

Lexus IS350
Power : 306hp
0-60 : 5.6s-6.2s
Top speed : 155mph (limited)
Weight: 3527 lb
1/4 : 13.8s-14.2s

Edmunds:

As I toss the new IS 350 through a sharp left-hander on twisty Angeles Crest Highway, it suddenly dawns on me — Lexus lives with a perpetual conundrum. On the one hand, the company likes to position itself as a segment leader, and it likes to participate in popular segments such as the entry-luxury sport sedan market. On the other hand, the very nature of the sport sedan market means cars like the BMW 3 Series (sporty, nimble, passionate) have effectively defined the segment. So, for Lexus to truly compete with the class leader it must present those same attributes in its own sport sedan offering.

Lexus tried to play in this field when it introduced the IS 300 in 2001, but company officials readily admit that the first IS never delivered "a total Lexus experience." However, according to Bob Carter, Lexus group vice president, the all-new 2006 Lexus IS 350 is meant to take "dead aim at setting a new standard of class-leading performance."

As the burgundy IS 350 I'm piloting deftly drifts through the sharp left-hander, before straightening out and rocketing away with all 306 horsepower churning from its 3.5-liter V6, I realize the car is indeed superbly refined, supremely confident…and subtly uninspiring.

There's no denying that the new IS 350 is bursting with cutting-edge technology. In fact, Lexus is quick to point out the many "segment firsts" offered on this latest model, including direct fuel injection, keyless entry and start, adaptive (and bi-xenon) headlights and radar cruise control. So if "setting a new standard of class-leading performance" means offering the first sport sedan with "steerable" headlights, precollision safety technology and push-button engine starting, Lexus has succeeded.

But as capable and solid as the car feels when tearing along Angeles Crest Highway, I'm left with an undeniable impression — I'd rather be driving a BMW 3 Series.

Less Than the Sum of its Parts?
Is this because the IS 350 lacks performance? Not at all. The 3.5-liter V6 has everything from dual VVTi (meaning both the intake and exhaust valve timing can be varied) to roller rockers to direct fuel injectors. The direct fuel injectors are backed up by port fuel injectors that can further improve cold weather starting and fuel economy while also reducing emissions. All of these systems work together to give the engine a broad, flat power band from idle to redline.

But despite all the advanced technology under the hood, the engine's performance further reflects Lexus' conundrum. How else can you describe an ultra-advanced, ultrarefined 306-hp engine that doesn't feel thrilling after mashing the accelerator pedal?

While the overly subdued exhaust note plays a role in killing the excitement, it goes beyond simple acoustics. The thrust of the engine itself was somehow muted, even as it pulled a 6.1-second 0-to-60 time (Lexus claims 5.6 seconds is possible, but this was the best we could get from our preproduction test unit). Maybe it's the 350 pounds gained over the previous IS 300, which was rather a flyweight at 3,150 pounds versus the 3,500-pound IS 350. Maybe it's the relaxed nature in how the engine goes about its business.

Whatever the cause, the car doesn't feel as fast as a 306-hp sedan should as it zips to 60 mph. It does, however, beat the last 330i and A4 we tested (both equipped with six-speed manual transmissions) by 0.5 and 1.6 seconds, respectively. It also blasted through the quarter-mile in 14.2 seconds, smoking the German competition by about the same 0.6 to 1.5 seconds.

The Wizards Get in the Way
Keep in mind that this car is basically a shortened GS, as both models use the same platform and the same type of double-wishbone front suspension and multilink rear suspension (the suspension pieces themselves are different between the GS and IS). Also remember that a full battery of Lexus' electronic driver aids (ABS, EBD, BA, TRC, VSC and VDIM) lurks just below the surface, ready to "assist" the driver — whether he wants the assistance or not.

That last item is really the issue here. While ABS and Electronic Brakeforce Distribution (EBD) are accepted technologies on most sport sedans today, the inability to disable Traction Control (TRC), Vehicle Skid Control (VSC) and the Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management (VDIM) system is troublesome. Technically, you can disable traction control, but every time we did it allowed only a split second of wheel spin before re-engaging. How does this affect the car's ultimate handling capabilities? In our slalom test it averaged 64.1 mph. Not a bad number, but slower than the A4's 64.6 mph and the 330i's 66.4. See, sometimes the driver knows better.

The upshot of all this technowizardry is that the Lexus IS 350 is a truly fearless and capable high-speed conveyance. We experienced the car at both a closed-course racetrack and on the aforementioned Angeles Crest Highway, and under both circumstances it performed unflappably — if a bit antiseptically.

Our test car had the optional performance package that included 18-inch wheels, stiffer shocks and a half-inch lower ride height. These items add to the car's sporty nature, but they also make you aware of nearly every road imperfection. We didn't mind it, but traditional Lexus customers might.

The electronic power steering has good weighting, though we'd prefer more feedback through the wheel. And the VDIM system does allow for a power slide here and drift there while making its presence almost — almost — undetectable. If you prefer your sport sedans serene over spirited and unperturbed over unabashed, then this could be your ideal car.

A Sport Sedan Pedigree It's Got
The six-speed automatic is Mercedes-Benz-like in its ability to pick a proper gear, and when put in the "Power" mode the transmission downshifts readily and holds gears between corners, aiding corner entry speed with effective engine braking. The steering wheel paddles further add to the experience, though the paddles themselves feel a bit plasticky. We're still not happy about the lack of a manual tranny (you can get one in the IS 250), but this automatic makes the most of the situation.

Aiding the responsive transmission is a set of decisive four-wheel disc brakes that enhances the car's composure. Whether blasting between apexes or hauling it down from 60 mph during brake testing, the ventilated 13-inch front rotors and four-piston alloy calipers provide heroic levels of eye-popping stopping power. They also halt the car from 60 mph in 123 feet, though that's 13 feet more than the 330i and about equal to the A4's 122.

Lexus Still Means Luxury
Of course there's more to the modern sport sedan than steering feel and exhaust tone. In terms of cabin design and luxury amenities the IS 350 is truly a class leader. Everything from the soft-touch dash and door panels to the supple leather seats exudes high quality. The seats on our test car were heated and ventilated, and they provided soothing comfort along with effective side bolstering during rapid travel.

Rear seating isn't as palatial, which surprised us given the IS 350's growth from the old IS 300 days. The answer lies in the wheelbase, which is 1.2 inches shorter than the new 3 Series and offers minimal rear legroom. If you regularly carry adults — or even large children — in the rear seat they won't be happy back there.

Happiness can be found in the list of high-tech features offered in the IS 350. The Gen-5 navigation system is the latest in digital mapping, and it displays through a new VGA monitor capable of 32,000 colors. Other features, like an optional Mark Levinson audio system and standard auxiliary input (think iPod) add to the car's high-end demeanor. Advanced safety technology, including knee airbags, full-length side curtain airbags and an industry-first dual-chamber front passenger airbag confirm Lexus as ahead of the curve on many levels in this segment.

But in the End
In fact, if you were to ask us, "What's the most advanced, refined and confident sport sedan under $40,000 today?" we'd very likely tell you it's the Lexus IS 350. And if you then asked us, "Which modern sport sedan would you most like to own and drive?" we'd tell you "The BMW 3 Series."

A very solid, capable and desirable luxury sedan the IS 350 is. And if you simply focus on acceleration numbers, you could even say it's "the new standard of class-leading performance." Now, where are the BMW keys?

Faceoff: Lexus IS350 Vs. BMW 330i
Horsepower isn’t always the only thing

A new Performance Package endows BMW's 330i sedan with a distinctly sporty personality.

Last year was a bumper year for Lexus, having sold 303,000 vehicles in theU.S. and beating BMW's 266,200 units into second place in the luxury vehicle charts. But before you go feeling sorry for the BMW, consider this: BMW sold almost as many 3-Series models in Europe last year (229,932 units, despite a March '05 introduction) as its entire U.S. sales volume and found a total of 644,000 happy European customers in total, excluding MINI. And do you know how many vehicles Lexus sold in Europe in 2005? A grand total of 28,777, or about 4.5 percent of BMW's sales.

In an attempt to rectify this situation, Lexus has designed the new IS as much with Europe in mind as North America, which is why there's a manual 2.5-liter V-6, a 2.2-liter turbodiesel (the first ever diesel Lexus, in fact) and paddle shifters on the range-topping version, as well as the promise of sportier handling and better performance than ever before.

To see how successful they've been, we got our hands on a brand new Lexus IS350 to put it up against its closest Munich rival: a BMW 330i. And to complete the test, I've volunteered my services as the resident "picky European." I even skipped my morning shower especially for the occasion (like I needed an excuse).

Looking important

The styling of many recent BMWs have caused quite a ruckus in the automotive world and while BMW stands firmly and officially behind its chief designer, Chris Bangle, it has simultaneously diluted his 7-Series design and wheeled out a new 3-Series that's only got the bare minimum of Bangle influence. I, personally, rather like the sculpted surfacing and the athletic stance of the new 3-Series, and I also find the detailing around the front lights and grille both striking and appealing. The rear end, however, is a disorganized affair, ruined by those big, clunky taillamps and unresolved lines running amok across its busy butt. The 3 is also very sensitive to wheel size and color, looking much better in dark colors with 18-inch rims, which accentuate its bulging metalwork and make it look more sinister. The current 3-Series probably won't go down as a design milestone (as almost every previous 3-Series has) but that doesn't stop it being an imposing and impressive machine from most angles, nonetheless.

Lexus' designers have eschewed trendy "flame surfacing" in favor of clean, crisp metalwork, thereby dodging the kind of backlash BMW has endured, but that didn't stop them peeking at the 3-Series for inspiration. The shape of the hood; relationship between grille, lights, and fenders; even the kink in the rear quarter-light all have BMW undertones, though melded inoffensively into the IS' rather ambiguous overall shape. The IS does have a strong stance and broad shoulders, however, and the standard 17-inch wheels also fill out the wheel wells better than the BMW's, but compared to the first IS, which still looks good to this day, the new car's styling isn't going to have many heads turning for a second glance. Lexus should have modeled the IS after the more imposing GS and worried less about what BMW was up to, I think. Case in point, look at the back of the IS: Free from BMW influence, the rear end is taught, aggressive, and so perky you want to wrap it in spandex and make it do lunges. More originality from Lexus's stylists, please, because when left to their own devices they clearly possess the skills.

Internal conflict

Inside, things improve for both cars. The BMW's cabin might be a bombardment of black plastic, but it's the well-made, high-quality stuff that's a nice to touch and keeps unwanted reflections, smudges, and scratches to a minimum. The cabin is also the epitome of ergonomic simplicity with buttons that are simple to find and satisfying to use, which only serves to remind us of the tragedy of iDrive (it only rears its ugly head if your 330i is ordered with satellite navigation).

The Lexus is much less oppressive thanks to the lighter hues, a greater variety of materials, and a more inviting overall design, though there's a disappointing number of Toyota bits dotted about the place and the silver-painted plastic on the center console looks cheap in such a car. Our Lexus was equipped with optional touch-screen navigation, so many of the ventilation and audio controls were split between solid dashboard buttons and virtual on-screen buttons, making basic operations unnecessarily complex and awkward. What is the general objection to dashboard buttons in luxury cars these days, I wonder?

I had expected the Lexus to trounce the snug BMW in terms of interior space but, surprisingly, the IS' interior dimensions are smaller than the BMW's in most respects despite it being a longer car overall. It does have a bigger trunk, but that's little consolation to the cramped rear passengers, now is it?

Specification-wise, the two cars pretty much match one another in terms of equipment and basic features, although there are four important areas where the Lexus really punished the BMW: Firstly, it has leather seats, which would cost $1450 extra in the euphemistically trimmed "leatherette" 330i, and secondly it comes with a six-speed paddle-shift automatic as standard, which is another sizeable $1275 option on the BMW.

Also bear in mind that the Lexus costs $1200 less than the BMW to begin with and you begin to see just how much showroom appeal Lexus has built into the IS350. The Lexus IS350 isn't even available with a manual gearbox, which is a bummer for any European worth his speedo-wearing salt but not really an issue for most Americans, and the BMW does fight back by offering expensive swiveling xenon headlamps, even if they do vibrate annoyingly and really don't work very well. Finally, there's the issue of performance, which is where the Lexus, quite literally, streaks ahead of the Bimmer.

Power player

With an extra half liter of capacity and a whopping 50 more horsepower and 57 extra pound-feet of torque, the IS is a whole second faster than the BMW to 60 mph from a rest (5.3 seconds versus 6.3) and maintains that second advantage all the way to the quarter mile (very low 14s versus very high 14s). In reality the Lexus feels even faster than the numbers suggest, surging ahead of the BMW in any gear at any speed, while those paddle shifters are programmed to operate responsively and smoothly, further enhancing the sensation of speed and looking rather cool into the bargain.

The 330i can't compete with the IS 350's eye-widening pace or its flashy paddle shifters, although its automatic transmission is actually more responsive and sporty than the Lexus', despite making do with a lever-operated manual mode. Both cars have electronically limited top speeds - 142 mph for the IS350 and 130 for the 330i unless it's fitted with the sport pack, in which case it can run to 149 mph. And it's not like the Lexus punishes you at the pumps, either. All kinds of valve timing and lean burning is used to give the Lexus almost identical gas mileage to the less powerful BMW.

However, if you delve deeper than the Lexus' impressive on-paper figures, you'll find there's only one true driver's car in this comparison and that's the BMW 330i. At low speeds or in a straight line, the Lexus feels like it could be amusing but wind things up a notch and it becomes clear that the focus is on grip and safety whereas the 3-Series is all about fun and unflappability. The BMW's steering, though not the info-fest I expected, is still sharp and responsive compared to the Lexus' mute and stodgy helm, while throttle response and brake feel are also more intuitive in the BMW than those of the Lexus. The BMW even rides more comfortably than the Lexus, despite being more firmly sprung, though the Lexus seems to be a quieter cruiser.

Switch off the BMW's stability control and the BMW will hang its rear end out all day long, a consequence of its carefully honed balance and razor-sharp controls, although the 330i isn't fitted with a limited-slip rear differential and would possibly be even more fun thus equipped. The Lexus doesn't even have a stability control switch and if you try to get fresh with the IS' spandex-clad rear end it will slap you hard and intrusively on the wrist. The VSC system can be overridden if you know the right combination of pedal prods (I kid you not) and when you do manage to switch the system off, the Lexus shows signs of possessing a balanced chassis, hinting that there might be some potential in the IS' platform after all. To unleash the beast within, though, Lexus would first have to rework the suspension and improve the steering tuning, while also install a "VSC off" button for those of driver that learned how to drive before computers took over 95 percent of the task.

Danke, und guten nacht

As it stands today, though, the 3-Series trounces the Lexus in terms of driving satisfaction. The two cars are in different dynamic leagues and that, right there, is the reason that Lexus sells so few cars in Europe. The IS is an extremely well presented and polished product but that's not the same thing as being a great car. I have no doubt that Lexus will sell every car they can build because a fine appliance like the IS350 is exactly what many people want to meet their transportation needs. But for those folks who sometime go for a drive when they really have no place to go, the BMW 330i is the easy choice. It's infinitely more fun than the Lexus and while it might seem like poor value compared to the faster, better equipped Lexus, ask yourself this: Who ever went on vacation to save money? Not everything in life can be quantified in dollars and cents. If pleasure is your measure of value, then the BMW 330i is a steal.

2006 BMW 330i
Base price: $36,660
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GET AN INSURANCE QUOTE
Engine: 3.0-liter in-line six, 255 hp/220 lb-ft
Transmission: Six-speed automatic, RWD (as tested)
Fuel economy (EPA city/hwy): 21/29 mpg
Wheelbase: 108.7 in
Length x width x height: 178.2 x 71.5 x 55.9 in
Weight: 3417 lb
Safety equipment: Front, side, and curtain airbags; anti-lock brakes; stability and traction control
Major standard equipment: Dual-zone climate control; adaptive headlamps; rain-sensing wipers; power front seats; 17-inch alloy wheels
Warranty: Four years/50,000 miles


2006 Lexus IS350
Base price: $35,440
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GET AN INSURANCE QUOTE
Engine: 3.5-liter V-6, 306 hp/277 lb-ft
Transmission: Six-speed automatic with paddle shifters, rear-wheel drive
Fuel economy (EPA city/hwy): 21/28 mpg
Wheelbase: 107.5 in
Length x width x height: 180.1 x 70.9 x 56.1 in
Weight: 3527 lb
Safety equipment: Front, side, and curtain airbags; knee airbag; anti-lock brakes, stability, and traction control
Major standard equipment: Dual-zone climate control; ten-way power front seats; six-CD changer; leather trim; 17-inch alloy wheels
Warranty: Four years/50,000 miles

Horsepower alone doesn't mean a thing.
There are also those little things called weight and handling.

BMW E46 M3
Power : 333hp
0-60 : 4.7s-4.9s
Top speed : 155mph (limited) - 180mph (without limiter)
Weight : 3415 lbs
1/4 : 12.8s-13.5s

Lexus IS350
Power : 306hp
0-60 : 5.6s-6.2s
Top speed : 155mph (limited)
Weight: 3527 lb
1/4 : 13.8s-14.2s

handling? without a question it's not even close but i'm talking straight line accelaration. i don't know where you get those numbers for the IS but they're a bit off. btw, even a noob (first time) at the track took the IS to 13.9 @ 1XX.............so far most 1/4 time are between 13.1 (some weight reduction) to 13.6.........14.2 if you see a car that traps up to 105 and have a 14.2 you know that theres something wrong;)

Faceoff: Lexus IS350 Vs. BMW 330i
Horsepower isn’t always the only thing


actually, if you turn off the VDIM it's quite fun to drive. try it you might like it.

you got it backwards............he said he will pass an e36 M3 with his all mighty 540i like it was standing still:confused

Why wouldn't he? He's got the hp advantage, you said that was way more important.

handling? without a question it's not even close but i'm talking straight line accelaration. i don't know where you get those numbers for the IS but they're a bit off. btw, even a noob (first time) at the track took the IS to 13.9 @ 1XX.............so far most 1/4 time are between 13.1 (some weight reduction) to 13.6.........14.2 if you see a car that traps up to 105 and have a 14.2 you know that theres something wrong;)

Are you seriously claiming it will beat an E46 M3 in a straight line?
The best time recorded for a STOCK E46 M3 was sub 13 seconds.
With weight reduction and the same mods as the IS350 it's gonna be rape time for the Lexus.
Just look at the numbers (again), the Lexus would need more mods than that to make up for almost a second 0-60.

Besides, it's 2006 now and we're comparing a 2000 E46 M3 3.2 I6 against a 2006 Lexus 3.5 V6.
Lexus better start looking out for the new M3.

Why wouldn't he? He's got the hp advantage, you said that was way more important.

like it was standing still? ok if you say so.......:rolleyes

Are you seriously claiming it will beat an E46 M3 in a straight line?
The best time recorded for a STOCK E46 M3 was sub 13 seconds.
With weight reduction and the same mods as the IS350 it's gonna be rape time for the Lexus.

Just look at the numbers (again), the Lexus would need more mods than that to make up for almost a second 0-60.

Besides, it's 2006 now and we're comparing a 2000 E46 M3 3.2 I6 against a 2006 Lexus 3.5 V6.
Lexus better start looking out for the new M3.

i wasn't claiming anything:mad look on my other posts, i even said i wasn't comparing the IS the any BMW but a 540i.:rolleyes

i don't time 0-60 and i don't want to go to rags for that but you left me with no choice.:evil2 according to some rags 0-60 for IS350 is 5.1.............i still think it's just a mod or two away from a stock e46 M3.

we can go on and on and on for whatever you want to throw in this discussion but buttom line is a car with ~105 trap speed aint gonna lose to a car that traps 102 or whatever 540i traps on a quarter mile.

we can go on and on and on for whatever you want to throw in this discussion but buttom line is a car with ~105 trap speed aint gonna lose to a car that traps 102 or whatever 540i traps on a quarter mile.

I agree that it's a close one when you compare the IS350 with an E39 540i.
You say the IS350 wins hands down, apparently that isn't the case.
I think it would be more realistic to say that it's a close call and it depends on the driver.

But there's no way in hell a stock IS350 has a chance against a stock E46 M3.
You keep talking about a modified IS350, of course a certain amount of modifications are gonna bring it up to level with an E46 M3 sooner or later.
But stock vs stock, it's buh bye IS350.
And when the new E90 M3 arrives, it's buh bye heavily modified NA IS350 (not including FI).

here a video of a modded 350Z vs IS350.....

he's on the left, http://youtube.com/watch?v=clgqqp90Wzw

you see you only beat stock 350z but an IS can beat a modded 350z





my M3 traps @ 102+ so i know what a 2-5 mph trap difference can do......just around most 540i.





what? someone with an e36 M3 race this guy already.........he'll pass you like you were standing still:lol :lol :lol you're so full of it:shifty




what? 265-252 = 13rwhp more on the IS350............torque isn't much of a deal because once you're moving hp takes over. torque only matters when starting from a dig but your car is approx 200 lbs heavier so it needs that torque......apparently, somewhere in your 540 front seat.:evil2

First off, I believe SurfdogCP has a friend with a '96 m3, who is on the boards, and I'm sure he'll attest to Surfdog beating him pretty easily, as I'm sure they have raced often.

Secondly, if you are trapping 102+ in your e36 m3, then that goes to show how strong the stock 540i/6 is in triple digit speeds, because they trap at 102 as well, and to pull you up top is a testament to the gearing, power, etc.

Third, the dyno graph of that IS350, to me, is not impressive. Sure, the max hp of 265rwhp is great, but look at the area under the curve. For comparison purposes, that torque curve of teh IS350 compared to my torque curve, is pathetic. I'm making 90% of my max torque from 2.25k rpms all the way to 5.25k rpms. The IS350's torque curve looks nothign like that, rather, more like their horsepower curve. That is why MAX #'s dont mean nearly as much as the area under the curve.

Lastly, I personally don't find anything about Lexus appealing. I have great respect for Lexus, as they build great vehicles with incredible reliability, but they feel dull to me. Their performance #'s are always overrated, and they really just don't seem like the "driver's" car they are trying to be.

With that said, bring on the IS350, I would LOVE to race one. I have no ill illusions of what my car is capable of, and I am more than ready to show an IS350 what my 7 year old BMW is capable of.

what? 265-252 = 13rwhp more on the IS350............torque isn't much of a deal because once you're moving hp takes over. torque only matters when starting from a dig but your car is approx 200 lbs heavier so it needs that torque......apparently, somewhere in your 540 front seat.:evil2
Firstly several 540's on this board have dyno'd 260+ at the wheels stock. Make what you want of that, but don't say torque doesn't matter if you're not accelerating from stand still. In simple terms torque reflects how efficiently a car will put its horsepower to the ground. Any e36 M3's that have raced S2000's can prolly attest to this.

Go tell one of you're old uncles who's was into cars in the 60's that displacement and torque don't matter in terms of straight line acceleration. :confused Or better yet post something on a mustang forum about how an IS350 will take a Mustang GT cuz it has more power. :alright

IMO I buy German. The Jap's know what they're doing, but I feel like they're missing something. German car's have this quality that make them greater than the sum of their parts. An almost intangible quality that you can't quantify. We have Lexus's in our family (New GS430 and RX 330) which are excellent cars but they lack something. I'm sure you're IS350 is immensely capable; It'd have to be to complete with a 540i. I havn't driven one yet, but I probably will today after all this.

.......Secondly, if you are trapping 102+ in your e36 m3, then that goes to show how strong the stock 540i/6 is in triple digit speeds, because they trap at 102 as well, and to pull you up top is a testament to the gearing, power, etc.

but an IS 350 traps around 105..................you tell me:evil2 ;)

.......Third, the dyno graph of that IS350, to me, is not impressive. Sure, the max hp of 265rwhp is great, but look at the area under the curve. For comparison purposes, that torque curve of teh IS350 compared to my torque curve, is pathetic. I'm making 90% of my max torque from 2.25k rpms all the way to 5.25k rpms. The IS350's torque curve looks nothign like that, rather, more like their horsepower curve. That is why MAX #'s dont mean nearly as much as the area under the curve.

IS350 is very hard to dyno because its only auto, when you start pushing the gas pedal to the floor it would downshift causing some stupid graphs on the dyno. but the max hp is what they were shooting for.

.......Lastly, I personally don't find anything about Lexus appealing. I have great respect for Lexus, as they build great vehicles with incredible reliability, but they feel dull to me. Their performance #'s are always overrated, and they really just don't seem like the "driver's" car they are trying to be.

With that said, bring on the IS350, I would LOVE to race one. I have no ill illusions of what my car is capable of, and I am more than ready to show an IS350 what my 7 year old BMW is capable of.

that's your opinion and you're entitled to it................same way i didn't buy a 328 when i was buying my M3.

Firstly several 540's on this board have dyno'd 260+ at the wheels stock. Make what you want of that, but don't say torque doesn't matter if you're not accelerating from stand still. In simple terms torque reflects how efficiently a car will put its horsepower to the ground. Any e36 M3's that have raced S2000's can prolly attest to this.
.


read what you quoted me for.......................and yes i've raced an s2000 before so i know.;)

First off, I believe SurfdogCP has a friend with a '96 m3, who is on the boards, and I'm sure he'll attest to Surfdog beating him pretty easily, as I'm sure they have raced often.

Secondly, if you are trapping 102+ in your e36 m3, then that goes to show how strong the stock 540i/6 is in triple digit speeds, because they trap at 102 as well, and to pull you up top is a testament to the gearing, power, etc.

Third, the dyno graph of that IS350, to me, is not impressive. Sure, the max hp of 265rwhp is great, but look at the area under the curve. For comparison purposes, that torque curve of teh IS350 compared to my torque curve, is pathetic. I'm making 90% of my max torque from 2.25k rpms all the way to 5.25k rpms. The IS350's torque curve looks nothign like that, rather, more like their horsepower curve. That is why MAX #'s dont mean nearly as much as the area under the curve.

Lastly, I personally don't find anything about Lexus appealing. I have great respect for Lexus, as they build great vehicles with incredible reliability, but they feel dull to me. Their performance #'s are always overrated, and they really just don't seem like the "driver's" car they are trying to be.

With that said, bring on the IS350, I would LOVE to race one. I have no ill illusions of what my car is capable of, and I am more than ready to show an IS350 what my 7 year old BMW is capable of.

+1

Also, I think I wasn't perfectly clear about passing an e36 like it was standing still. I didn't mean to suggest that sort of comparison. I meant the very literal situation that if one car is going 99mph and the other is doing 102 then the one going 102 is passing the other at 3mph relative to it as though it were standing still. Sorry for the confusion. I meant no disrespect to anyone with an E36 M3. But IS 300 M... You are still just wrong here. As hwl328i correctly noted, power band makes a difference. My car is not much heavier than yours as driver weight is taken into account in the 3700lb weight figure. You might have a mere 13hp advantage but that will not win you a race when you are badly out torqued, facing a car with a better power band, and a more efficient drivetrain.

+1

Also, I think I wasn't perfectly clear about passing an e36 like it was standing still. I didn't mean to suggest that sort of comparison. I meant the very literal situation that if one car is going 99mph and the other is doing 102 then the one going 102 is passing the other at 3mph relative to it as though it were standing still. Sorry for the confusion. I meant no disrespect to anyone with an E36 M3. But IS 300 M... You are still just wrong here. As hwl328i correctly noted, power band makes a difference. My car is not much heavier than yours as driver weight is taken into account in the 3700lb weight figure. You might have a mere 13hp advantage but that will not win you a race when you are badly out torqued, facing a car with a better power band, and a more efficient drivetrain.


SEE POST # 78

SEE POST # 78

I read it. I don't buy it. Final drive doesn't mean much at all. The only thing that matters is how agressive the gearing is in the gears you are racing. Sorry. Also, my mod list is pretty small but I do have a couple of bolt-ons which could close the hp gap if you are still wondering how I beat that IS350 on Monday.

I read it. I don't buy it. Final drive doesn't mean much at all. The only thing that matters is how agressive the gearing is in the gears you are racing. Sorry. Also, my mod list is pretty small but I do have a couple of bolt-ons which could close the hp gap if you are still wondering how I beat that IS350 on Monday.

well in that case your car has 2.81 vs 4.xx (is350).............

well in that case your car has 2.81 vs 4.xx (is350).............

This is a pointless arguement. The car companies geared their cars in whatever manner they deemed fit during development. The bottom line is which is faster.

IMO 540.

.
Third, the dyno graph of that IS350, to me, is not impressive. Sure, the max hp of 265rwhp is great, but look at the area under the curve. For comparison purposes, that torque curve of teh IS350 compared to my torque curve, is pathetic. I'm making 90% of my max torque from 2.25k rpms all the way to 5.25k rpms. The IS350's torque curve looks nothign like that, rather, more like their horsepower curve. That is why MAX #'s dont mean nearly as much as the area under the curve.


Please, if you are going to stick to this debate between the IS350 vs the 540, try to stay away from the dyno graphs. Comparing a V6 to a V8 in terms of torque curve is futile and ridiculous. You should see the torque curve of my S54 vs my friends Z06.

In the end, peak power/hp numbers combined with gearing and all the rest of the equasion of what makes a car quick is what counts; nothing more, nothing less.

This is a pointless arguement. The car companies geared their cars in whatever manner they deemed fit during development. The bottom line is which is faster.

IMO 540.

OK, i won't stop you.............:) i guess you just have to find out for yourself.

well in that case your car has 2.81 vs 4.xx (is350).............

2.81 final drive is for the 540iA automatic 5spd transmission. And also, final drive for the IS350 is 3.91. Not 4 anything...

Edit: I found what I was looking for: Six spd manual ratios: 4.23 (1), 2.53 (2), 1.67 (3), 1.23 (4), 1.00 (5), 0.83 (6) The final drive thus suffers because of gears 5 and 6 which you usually never get to unless you are racing above 135mph. Furthermore the wider powerband allows this further spaced out gearing because the RPM range where acceleration can be maximized is bigger.

Taking the long view of this whole thread I have the following comment: A guy with a 540 automatic says he beat an IS350. Do you believe him? I say I beat one with my 540 six speed. Do you believe me? You keep debating with "I think," "I imagine," "I believe," "When you look at the numbers," I've tried to convince you for a while that the numbers don't point to an IS350 winning so really all I have left to do if you don't accept simple evidence is to either back off or call BS.

OK, i won't stop you.............:) i guess you just have to find out for yourself.

I'll probably lose to an IS350 in a 0 - 100 race and definetly lose in 0 - 60. Unforunately for me I got an 540iA. However, I will stand behind any 540i/6 owners who say they're faster than a 350.

Please, if you are going to stick to this debate between the IS350 vs the 540, try to stay away from the dyno graphs. Comparing a V6 to a V8 in terms of torque curve is futile and ridiculous. You should see the torque curve of my S54 vs my friends Z06.

In the end, peak power/hp numbers combined with gearing and all the rest of the equasion of what makes a car quick is what counts; nothing more, nothing less.


Saying peak #'s mean everything is unbelievably ignorant. Torque curves are a HUGE part of a vehicle's acceleration, power, and driveability. Your friend's Z06 is undoubtedly going to rape your S54, but it only has 70 more horsepower. Then you look at your friend's Z06 dyno graph, realizing that it's torque curve is flat as a table. That is when you take into account the USEABLE power a car has-it's power band. The IS350 doesn't seem to me to have a very wide powerband, looking at it's dyno graph. Regardless, your statement is ridiculous and proves you don't know what you are talking about.

Take a look at a member, I believe his name is Mmart, he has an audi 1.8t and an e46 m3. His audi makes less peak hp and peak tq than his e46 m3, but his audi is faster. I guess you're right, peak horsepower means everything, area under the curve, USEABLE power, doesn't matter.:rolleyes

2.81 final drive is for the 540iA automatic 5spd transmission. And also, final drive for the IS350 is 3.91. Not 4 anything...

Edit: I found what I was looking for: Six spd manual ratios: 4.23 (1), 2.53 (2), 1.67 (3), 1.23 (4), 1.00 (5), 0.83 (6) The final drive thus suffers because of gears 5 and 6 which you usually never get to unless you are racing above 135mph. Furthermore the wider powerband allows this further spaced out gearing because the RPM range where acceleration can be maximized is bigger.

to tell you the truth i didn't know the final drive for 350, i just based it on post #78....

Saying peak #'s mean everything is unbelievably ignorant. Torque curves are a HUGE part of a vehicle's acceleration, power, and driveability. Your friend's Z06 is undoubtedly going to rape your S54, but it only has 70 more horsepower. Then you look at your friend's Z06 dyno graph, realizing that it's torque curve is flat as a table. That is when you take into account the USEABLE power a car has-it's power band. The IS350 doesn't seem to me to have a very wide powerband, looking at it's dyno graph. Regardless, your statement is ridiculous and proves you don't know what you are talking about.

Take a look at a member, I believe his name is Mmart, he has an audi 1.8t and an e46 m3. His audi makes less peak hp and peak tq than his e46 m3, but his audi is faster. I guess you're right, peak horsepower means everything, area under the curve, USEABLE power, doesn't matter.:rolleyes

Wow, I don't recall stating that peak torque/hp numbers mean everything re-read what I wrote and don't misinterpret anything; and definitely don't put words in my mouth and calling it ignorant.

I think my mentioning of powerband would fall under my statement of "all the rest of the equasion"

Taking the long view of this whole thread I have the following comment: A guy with a 540 automatic says he beat an IS350. Do you believe him? I say I beat one with my 540 six speed. Do you believe me? You keep debating with "I think," "I imagine," "I believe," "When you look at the numbers," I've tried to convince you for a while that the numbers don't point to an IS350 winning so really all I have left to do if you don't accept simple evidence is to either back off or call BS.

no! no! and no! ok, forget about the numbers...............since you think your 280 hp has greater number than the IS.:shifty .............and if it will make you happy i calling bs;)

no! no! and no! ok, forget about the numbers...............since you think your 280 hp has greater number than the IS.:shifty .............and if it will make you happy i calling bs;)

I'm willing to bet that SurfdogCP has just as much, if not a little more, horsepower than the IS350. Like has been stated already, 540i 6 speeds are proven to be very underrated engines. Not to mention he has some modifications that are efficient in adding horsepower in the 540i.

Regardless, none of this makes sense, considering it has 307 hp, 277 ft lbs tq, an auto tranny, and weighs around 3500lbs?

How does that equate to a 5.1 0-60 and mid 13 1/4 mile?

I've seen such different numbers on this car, varying from car magazine to car magazine.

You can't throw out the tq argument, because it is a huge factor in accelerating from a standstill, and is not to be ignored when regarding high speeds either.

How does the IS350 allegedly accelerate from 0-60 with those #'s a full .5 seconds faster than a 540i/6 does, which only weighs 200 #'s more, and is equipped with a 6 speed? The only thing I can think of that robs the 540i of acceleration times from 0-60 is it's open differential.

Either way, those times seem VERY optimistic to me, and I don't know what to believe, since car magazines are getting different times. Show me somebody who has taken it to the track, timeslip and all, and it would help all of us out.

Wow, I don't recall stating that peak torque/hp numbers mean everything re-read what I wrote and don't misinterpret anything; and definitely don't put words in my mouth and calling it ignorant.

I think my mentioning of powerband would fall under my statement of "all the rest of the equasion"

You simply can't look at peak numbers and determine which car is going to be faster. You HAVE to look at the area under the curve, and let's look at two cars with similar hp/tq #'s, one having a tq curve with peak tq from 2.5k-6k rpm, the other not making good tq until 4k rpm-6k rpm. Let's assume they make the same exact peak #'s, have same gearing, etc.

Will you still argue that they would be just as fast, or would you accept that the first car, making peak tq for a much wider powerband, will be the faster car?

The IS350 and the 540i have very similar power numbers. You can't deny that the 540i is making a very significant more amount of tq than the IS350. It has a role, and that IS350 is making 13 rwhp over me, so I wouldn't say they are night and day.

Look at the dyno graphs, and I have a MUCH more useable powerband, and the fact that my 540i weighs 200 lbs more is negated by the 50 rwtq I have on teh IS350.

540i 6 speeds have great gearing, especially once you get to speed, and I would be hard pressed to believe an auto Lexus can shift faster than me.

When you think about all that, I really have a hard time believing an IS350 would "RAPE" me. Rather, I think it would be a damn good race, and that I would start to walk the IS350 once we get into triple digits.

i wasn't claiming anything:mad look on my other posts, i even said i wasn't comparing the IS the any BMW but a 540i.:rolleyes

i don't time 0-60 and i don't want to go to rags for that but you left me with no choice.:evil2 according to some rags 0-60 for IS350 is 5.1.............i still think it's just a mod or two away from a stock e46 M3.

we can go on and on and on for whatever you want to throw in this discussion but buttom line is a car with ~105 trap speed aint gonna lose to a car that traps 102 or whatever 540i traps on a quarter mile.


As much as I hate to magazine race, I'm going to give you what Road And Track got for the IS350.

IS350
0-60= 6.0 seconds
1/4 mile= 14.5 at 98.6 mph

Now, if Road and Track got these times for the IS350, then where's all the hype coming from?

I have a Car and Driver, which got the times you stated, but why the 7 mph difference in trap speed between the two magazines? It's not difficult to launch an automatic, and certainly not difficult to race it. What I'm getting at, is that Road and Track have times for the IS350 that is consistent with other car magazines, while Car and Driver has a MUCH faster time/trap speed. There shouldn't be a 7mph difference with the same car and two different magazines, considering their times for all the other cars they test are usually VERY similar.

I am still remaining skeptical because the IS350 fanboys believe its a car capable of 105 mph traps, quoting the one magazine I have seen with traps that high for it. It is just very fishy, thinking that one car can have a 7mph trap difference from 2 different people.

Rule out the launch and shifting, it's a freaking automatic. Am I the only one who finds this fishy?:shifty

As much as I hate to magazine race, I'm going to give you what Road And Track got for the IS350.

IS350
0-60= 6.0 seconds
1/4 mile= 14.5 at 98.6 mph

Now, if Road and Track got these times for the IS350, then where's all the hype coming from?

I have a Car and Driver, which got the times you stated, but why the 7 mph difference in trap speed between the two magazines? It's not difficult to launch an automatic, and certainly not difficult to race it. What I'm getting at, is that Road and Track have times for the IS350 that is consistent with other car magazines, while Car and Driver has a MUCH faster time/trap speed. There shouldn't be a 7mph difference with the same car and two different magazines, considering their times for all the other cars they test are usually VERY similar.

I am still remaining skeptical because the IS350 fanboys believe its a car capable of 105 mph traps, quoting the one magazine I have seen with traps that high for it. It is just very fishy, thinking that one car can have a 7mph trap difference from 2 different people.

Rule out the launch and shifting, it's a freaking automatic. Am I the only one who finds this fishy?:shifty

Nope. It's fishy all right.

Also

IS 300 M, you are simply impossible. You don't accept numbers. You don't have any number of your own except an incorrect final gear ratio and a dyno sheet which shows a weak hp advantage, a large torque deficency, and a poor power band. You keep talking about the IS350 hitting 105 in a 1/4 but that really isn't the purpose of this discussion. No one is talking about racing a quarter. Furthermore though I have been able to track down a few timeslips in the 103-104 area for the IS350 online, they are all for the sport package edition and they all fail to list mods. Frankly what make this so improbable is that you have a car which doesn't even seem to take the 540 in the numbers, and which you claim should actually be running game with an E39 M5. It's just silly. I'm with hwl328i. This is fishy.

As much as I hate to magazine race, I'm going to give you what Road And Track got for the IS350.

IS350
0-60= 6.0 seconds
1/4 mile= 14.5 at 98.6 mph

Now, if Road and Track got these times for the IS350, then where's all the hype coming from?

I have a Car and Driver, which got the times you stated, but why the 7 mph difference in trap speed between the two magazines? It's not difficult to launch an automatic, and certainly not difficult to race it. What I'm getting at, is that Road and Track have times for the IS350 that is consistent with other car magazines, while Car and Driver has a MUCH faster time/trap speed. There shouldn't be a 7mph difference with the same car and two different magazines, considering their times for all the other cars they test are usually VERY similar.

I am still remaining skeptical because the IS350 fanboys believe its a car capable of 105 mph traps, quoting the one magazine I have seen with traps that high for it. It is just very fishy, thinking that one car can have a 7mph trap difference from 2 different people.

Rule out the launch and shifting, it's a freaking automatic. Am I the only one who finds this fishy?:shifty

here's a real time slip for ya! the one on the righ #283

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=82762

IS 300 M, you are simply impossible. You don't accept numbers. You don't have any number of your own except an incorrect final gear ratio and a dyno sheet which shows a weak hp advantage, a large torque deficency, and a poor power band. You keep talking about the IS350 hitting 105 in a 1/4 but that really isn't the purpose of this discussion. No one is talking about racing a quarter. Furthermore though I have been able to track down a few timeslips in the 103-104 area for the IS350 online, they are all for the sport package edition and they all fail to list mods. Frankly what make this so improbable is that you have a car which doesn't even seem to take the 540 in the numbers, and which you claim should actually be running game with an E39 M5. It's just silly. I'm with hwl328i. This is fishy.

but a trap SPEED IS A GOOD INDICATION OF HOW FAST A CAR IS:shifty

Here's a bunch of time slip for ya!@

http://home.comcast.net/~flpd1357/3rd_1320.jpg

but a trap SPEED IS A GOOD INDICATION OF HOW FAST A CAR IS:shifty

Here's a bunch of time slip for ya!

Sport Package Edition? Mods? Tires? Anything at all to indicate that this is a regular IS350 which (by the way) is what this thread is about?

I bet each car with thier corresponding time slip was modded.

Sport Package Edition? Mods? Tires? Anything at all to indicate that this is a regular IS350 which (by the way) is what this thread is about?

ALL IS 350 HAVE THE SAME HP..............sports, luxury, standard it really doesn't make any difference. if anything they were all done on stock 18s (which are on most is 350s) stickies will get it down to 12s trust me.;) some weight reduction.............if you want to know his mods (IE spare tire, jack, tools.....)

Sport Package Edition? Mods? Tires? Anything at all to indicate that this is a regular IS350 which (by the way) is what this thread is about?

What i was trying to say:clap

I bet each car with thier corresponding time slip was modded.

the car is new.............not a whole lot of upgrades out there if any. most upgrades will still be under development don't you think? so most IS350 you will see at the track would be STOCK....

Does anyone recall what mag regarding the 330 vs is350 on it's cover read
"lexus brought a knife to a gun fight yet still managed to shoot itself in the foot"?

Does anyone recall what mag regarding the 330 vs is350 on it's cover read
"lexus brought a knife to a gun fight yet still managed to shoot itself in the foot"?


focus on the subject............don't change it..............focus;)

ALL IS 350 HAVE THE SAME HP..............sports, luxury, standard it really doesn't make any difference. if anything they were all done on stock 18s (which are on most is 350s) stickies will get it down to 12s trust me.;) some weight reduction.............if you want to know his mods (IE spare tire, jack, tools.....)

It does make a difference. All the slips I have seen for STOCK IS350's that are not Sport Package Edition or modded are high 13-low 14 at 98mph. I have taken some time to see if there was a possibility that you were right about your 105 figure. But as far as STOCK IS350's are concerned, I must conclude you are wrong.

Edit:
There’s two non Sport Package Edition stock IS350’s slips.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
http://www.dragtimes.com/Lexus-IS350-Timeslip-7051.html
http://www.dragtimes.com/Lexus-IS350-Timeslip-7250.html
<o:p></o:p>
Now here’s two Sport Package Edition IS350’s which h