Thanks goes out to.......

M not Z for selling me a quality Manifold w/ the killer Eurosport kit at a VERY good price.

RedRocket328 for helping me with the install....(took only a few hours and some dinner). If anyone needs a M50 Manifold, Manifold Swap Kit, or install of the Manifold, PM RedRocket, he will hook it up for cheap.

Scott (not sure if he is a member of BF) for letting me use his garage. Your house is ridiculously nice, I can live in that garage. Take care of that ///M3Beast, that fully built motor is crucial.

& last Matt for moral support :)

Dyno numbers will come this weekend...I won't be happy till she is stripped down and abused :devillook

No problem, it was a good time. Scott is Verheuum on the boards, or some stupid name like that. cant wait to see the dyno numbers.

congrats brian :cool. can't wait to see the numbers you put down.

My fingers are crossed to be close to what your car put down.

This is my project for next Spring.

M50manifold
Crank pulley
Shark injector :)

Nice to hear you got one Brian!

Me? You're welcome... :dunno

Matt

keep us posted!

I think I am doing the same mod soon.

cant wait for #'s I am thinking about this mod

look... Yes, dyno numbers are cool and everything, but having a huge gain at the very end of your powerband, yet losing torque doesnt mean much to me. Show me time slips, and I will FINALLY be impressed with the m50 swap. But until then, its a waste of time and torque to put up numbers that look good on paper but are worthless with actual driving.

I'm glad that you like the swap - thanks for lunch - any time you are in the area stop by

-Scott

look... Yes, dyno numbers are cool and everything, but having a huge gain at the very end of your powerband, yet losing torque doesnt mean much to me. Show me time slips, and I will FINALLY be impressed with the m50 swap. But until then, its a waste of time and torque to put up numbers that look good on paper but are worthless with actual driving.:lol
Dyno's are not about numbers. If you looked at a dyno of before and after the conversion, you'd see why race cars run the M50 manifold. The little drop is torque does not compare to the gains up top. The area under the curves is much greater with the M50, then with the M52.

:lol
Dyno's are not about numbers. If you looked at a dyno of before and after the conversion, you'd see why race cars run the M50 manifold. The little drop is torque does not compare to the gains up top. The area under the curves is much greater with the M50, then with the M52.

This topic has been beat to death. Those that understand that the area under the curve is what matters on a dyno plot will realize the benefit of this mod and those that don't will just have a slower car.

Back on topic: Good luck with your numbers.

This topic has been beat to death. Those that understand that the area under the curve is what matters on a dyno plot will realize the benefit of this mod and those that don't will just have a slower car.
:lol

Back on topic: Good luck with your numbers.

Thanks dude..

:race cars run the M50 manifold

Hehe I have a race car now :)

I'm pretty sure Glen pulled a 238rwhp (or something close to it) and Redrocket pulled a 230rwhp with the exact mods at the last Agile Dyno day. Both had M50 mani, exhaust, and intake. This was on a Dynapack.

I'm sure you'll pull something between those numbers Mwhip. :)

Crank pulley


IMO, crank pullies are nothing more than a very expensive way to lower your oil pressure.

Thanks dude..I'm just posting a thank you thread....negative ppl can get off my nuts or maybe you like that :alright



Hehe I have a race car now :)

I was agreeing with benefit of the M50 manifold. I wasn't being negative at all. :confused

IMO, crank pullies are nothing more than a very expensive way to lower your oil pressure.
I'll bite... How would a crank pulley lower your oil pressure? Sorry if that's a dumb question... I'm not an e36 guy.

Matt

I'll bite... How would a crank pulley lower your oil pressure? Sorry if that's a dumb question... I'm not an e36 guy.

Matt

When the oil pump nut spins off due to the increase in torsional vibrations from removing the damper pulley the engine won't have any oil pressure at all.

Is that a fact? Did someone do some serious testing?

There are people that have run the CP for a long long time and haven't had ANY problems. There are some that have had lot's of problems...

That's a pretty weak link IMHO.

Matt

Is that a fact? Did someone do some serious testing?

There are people that have run the CP for a long long time and haven't had ANY problems. There are some that have had lot's of problems...

There's a pretty strong correlation between the two events, and it makes a lot of physical sense. Sure, there are lots of folks who run the CP that have no problems yet, but there are way more folks who run the CP and have lost their nut.

The folks with stock crank pulley almost never see this problem.

A lot of the OPN failure cars had CP's, but not all CP cars have had OPN failures.

A lot of the OPN failure cars had CP's, but not all CP cars have had OPN failures.

:dunno:

It just depends on whether 5 horsepower is worth the cost of a motor rebuild to you. To me it isn't.

:needpics

J/k. I can't wait to do my manifold and get some tuning. Then my car might actually be decent. :rofl

I was agreeing with benefit of the M50 manifold. I wasn't being negative at all. :confused

Sorry I wasn't talking about you......I fixed the post :)

damn i've been waiting for a while to work on this mod, it'll be my project for next spring as well, cant wait to seey our numbers

look... Yes, dyno numbers are cool and everything, but having a huge gain at the very end of your powerband, yet losing torque doesnt mean much to me. Show me time slips, and I will FINALLY be impressed with the m50 swap. But until then, its a waste of time and torque to put up numbers that look good on paper but are worthless with actual driving.
You only loose about 2 lbs./ft of torque. and after 3000 rpm's you gain almost 20? I think i would sacrific 2 lbs/ft for 20 hp almost.

Oh and btw, i think you just got told by john and christian....:redspot

I'm pretty sure Glen pulled a 238rwhp (or something close to it) and Redrocket pulled a 230rwhp with the exact mods at the last Agile Dyno day. Both had M50 mani, exhaust, and intake. This was on a Dynapack.

I'm sure you'll pull something between those numbers Mwhip. :)
No, glenn had a stromung exhaust and i had the POS from ebay that came on my car when i bought it.

You only loose about 2 lbs./ft of torque. and after 3000 rpm's you gain almost 20? I think i would sacrific 2 lbs/ft for 20 hp almost.

Not in the dynos ive seen.

You have to be in this small little section in your powerband to feel the power for wut... 1000 rpms? So you get an extra 20 hp for 1000 rpms but u have to redline it. K, doesnt sound THAT bad. But add in that u lose low-midrange numbers (2 trq my ass) and u end up screwing up your whole powerband just to get a lousy boost in hp that lasts 1 second. Meanwhile your torque loss and powerband is prolly nullifying the 20 hp at the end.

All I'm saying is you can make dynos say anything. Look, my car has 300 rwhp. Oh, but it never runs, and it can only do it once.

Prove it on the track and I will believe you. I'm not being a jerk, I'm being a skeptic. I am more than happy to admit that I'm wrong and put that thing on my car, considering i got one for 50 bucks. Just prove it without a dyno.

Not in the dynos ive seen.

You have to be in this small little section in your powerband to feel the power for wut... 1000 rpms? So you get an extra 20 hp for 1000 rpms but u have to redline it. K, doesnt sound THAT bad. But add in that u lose low-midrange numbers (2 trq my ass) and u end up screwing up your whole powerband just to get a lousy boost in hp that lasts 1 second. Meanwhile your torque loss and powerband is prolly nullifying the 20 hp at the end.

All I'm saying is you can make dynos say anything. Look, my car has 300 rwhp. Oh, but it never runs, and it can only do it once.

Prove it on the track and I will believe you. I'm not being a jerk, I'm being a skeptic. I am more than happy to admit that I'm wrong and put that thing on my car, considering i got one for 50 bucks. Just prove it without a dyno.
If you got one for $50, then why not take some time to put it on and test it out. Maybe after you ride in a car with a M50 manifold you might feel defferently. I know you will.
Also, if you are on the track arent you going to be redlining alot anyway. Rarely will you be in a lower RPM, except maybe in AutoX around 1 or 2 turns.
You have to be in this small little section in your powerband to feel the power for wut... 1000 rpms? So you get an extra 20 hp for 1000 rpms but u have to redline it.
After about 3000 rpms, your car picks up significantly. Car redlines at 6500, so 6500-3500=3000 rpm's!

Anyway, what the man(mwhip) was trying to do was just say "thank you and "look the M50 manifold conversion is done, look forward to dyno numbers this weekend"... and look what this thread has become.

This is my project for next Spring.

M50manifold
Crank pulley
Shark injector :)

Nice to hear you got one Brian!
Give me a hollar when your ready. I want to go for my 45 min swap

Is that a fact? Did someone do some serious testing?

There are people that have run the CP for a long long time and haven't had ANY problems. There are some that have had lot's of problems...
I must agree. The rumors of a ballanced crank pully or lack of a vibration dampener causing the opn failure are unlikely. Though yes this will cause more vibration, it in itself is not enough to back off any nut off of anywhere in the car. If this were the case I would have had trouble a long time ago with the opn.

Give me a hollar when your ready. I want to go for my 45 min swap
haha, im going to have to time myself next time. I think theres some competition in the house... lol

haha, im going to have to time myself next time. I think theres some competition in the house... lol
Maybe.... :evil2 I recently did a 740il intake manifold seal job and pcv valve along with new spark plugs, new valve cover gaskets and new post cat o2 sensors in 1:45 hrs. I was proud. I believe it was 8.2 billable hours or close.
Also recently changed my own wheel bearing in my driveway with handtools and a jack in 3 hours. That was a farking biathc

Not in the dynos ive seen.

You have to be in this small little section in your powerband to feel the power for wut... 1000 rpms? So you get an extra 20 hp for 1000 rpms but u have to redline it. K, doesnt sound THAT bad. But add in that u lose low-midrange numbers (2 trq my ass) and u end up screwing up your whole powerband just to get a lousy boost in hp that lasts 1 second. Meanwhile your torque loss and powerband is prolly nullifying the 20 hp at the end.

All I'm saying is you can make dynos say anything. Look, my car has 300 rwhp. Oh, but it never runs, and it can only do it once.

Prove it on the track and I will believe you. I'm not being a jerk, I'm being a skeptic. I am more than happy to admit that I'm wrong and put that thing on my car, considering i got one for 50 bucks. Just prove it without a dyno.
So you've looked at countless dynos of the swaps? Please post some of before and after.

I'll do one for you:
http://megatron.jonuts.com/images/stage4_vs_stage5.JPG
So there is a loss for 1000rpm. See the gain for 2500rpm? The area UNDER the ENTIRE curve is what you need to look at. Some complain that their butt dyno feels a major loss down low. What people never seem to understand is that your butt dyno will really only feel the angle of the curve. The climb to torque peak at 4500 with the M50 manifold is more gradual then the 4000 peak with the M52 manifold. You are not going to feel as much power with the M50, but you will indeed have close to the same amount of peak torque, a flatter curve, and a higher hp peak, AS WELL AS MORE USABLE POWER. :wave

So you've looked at countless dynos of the swaps? Please post some of before and after.

I'll do one for you:
See the gain for 2500rpm? The area UNDER the ENTIRE curve is what you need to look at. Some complain that their butt dyno feels a major loss down low. What people never seem to understand is that your butt dyno will really only feel the angle of the curve. The climb to torque peak at 4500 with the M50 manifold is more gradual then the 4000 peak with the M52 manifold. You are not going to feel as much power with the M50, but you will indeed have close to the same amount of peak torque, a flatter curve, and a higher hp peak, AS WELL AS MORE USABLE POWER. :wave
:nutz: You go boy!

Maybe.... :evil2 I recently did a 740il intake manifold seal job and pcv valve along with new spark plugs, new valve cover gaskets and new post cat o2 sensors in 1:45 hrs. I was proud. I believe it was 8.2 billable hours or close.
Also recently changed my own wheel bearing in my driveway with handtools and a jack in 3 hours. That was a farking biathc
When you can swap a motor in 2 hours, then you'll be good.

Hey I'm all for it. If it works, thats awesome, it'll be my next mod. Although that dyno isnt for a 328, is it?

All I wanna see is its actual worth on the street/track. Dyno-junkies can bow down before the numbers, but I just want to see it in action, thats all.

Hey I'm all for it. If it works, thats awesome, it'll be my next mod. Although that dyno isnt for a 328, is it?

All I wanna see is its actual worth on the street/track. Dyno-junkies can bow down before the numbers, but I just want to see it in action, thats all.
well let me be one of many to tell you my car is faster now that i have the M50.

anyway brian i'm sure you'll pull good numbers. like it was stated before i got 237 whp with just the M50, intake and stromung. i would run it again with you, but right now i am saving for a new diff, especially after talking to clint at the mega meet.

vjlax18 wrote: "When you can swap a motor in 2 hours, then you'll be good."

How fast can Brant do it in?

-Scott

I must agree. The rumors of a ballanced crank pully or lack of a vibration dampener causing the opn failure are unlikely. Though yes this will cause more vibration, it in itself is not enough to back off any nut off of anywhere in the car. If this were the case I would have had trouble a long time ago with the opn.

The correlation is too strong to ignore. But, it's your motor. S52s are getting pretty cheap these days I guess. ;)

anyway brian i'm sure you'll pull good numbers. like it was stated before i got 237 whp with just the M50, intake and stromung. i would run it again with you, but right now i am saving for a new diff, especially after talking to clint at the mega meet.

I'll have to take you for a ride sometime. You'll re-morgage your house for one of those suckers next week. :D

When you can swap a motor in 2 hours, then you'll be good.
Give me a car and 2 motors. Ill see what I can do.

vjlax18 wrote: "When you can swap a motor in 2 hours, then you'll be good."

How fast can Brant do it in?

-Scott
2 hours (1/2 hour out)

S52's are around $5500 for a crate engine from BMW of Towson, $6400 from Bavarian Engine Exchange, and around $2500-4000 for a used one. Personally, I would be more inclined to buy new than used since a lot of the ones I saw for $2500-3000 were junk -- no verification that they would be good and all around 90K+ ...

Like JV said ... for 5 rwhp -- at max ... it's not worth taking the chance, even if there is a 'remote' possibility of causing engine damage ... because it's all fun and games until the engine goes kablooey ... This is especially to those that like to run at 5K rpm's and higher -- I think normal driving may be okay; but, consistent high rpm's will cause add'l vibrations ... and obviously, more wear in the long term ...

I'll have to take you for a ride sometime. You'll re-morgage your house for one of those suckers next week. :D
haha sounds good...if i could fit in a mcoupe that is :( :stickoutt

I just want my car fixed. If I get my 99 M3 hauled down from ME lets see who can replace the valves, check the head, do a fan delete and do the M50 conversion the fastest. I'll supply the parts. It would be fun to do this at a meet in front of everyone. Im serious. If you are interest let me know how much I'll pay you. The work must be done correctly and it will be judged by the crowd. Lets do this.

I just want my car fixed. If I get my 99 M3 hauled down from ME lets see who can replace the valves, check the head, do a fan delete and do the M50 conversion the fastest. I'll supply the parts. It would be fun to do this at a meet in front of everyone. Im serious. If you are interest let me know how much I'll pay you. The work must be done correctly and it will be judged by the crowd. Lets do this.

Your going to pay to have the work done multiple times just to see who is faster? RICH!!!!!!!

I just want my car fixed. If I get my 99 M3 hauled down from ME lets see who can replace the valves, check the head, do a fan delete and do the M50 conversion the fastest. I'll supply the parts. It would be fun to do this at a meet in front of everyone. Im serious. If you are interest let me know how much I'll pay you. The work must be done correctly and it will be judged by the crowd. Lets do this.
This should be great... We need a few more guys who are interested in the M50 manifold swap. I can get the manifolds for cheap.

Thewiseguy: When you put the fuel rail back onto the manifold, do you usually just bend the fuel rail brackets or cut them off? I ussually cut them off on every car that i do, but i just realized that all you have to do is bend them over. Brain pointed this out to me.

This should be great... We need a few more guys who are interested in the M50 manifold swap. I can get the manifolds for cheap.

Thewiseguy: When you put the fuel rail back onto the manifold, do you usually just bend the fuel rail brackets or cut them off? I ussually cut them off on every car that i do, but i just realized that all you have to do is bend them over. Brain pointed this out to me.

It is Brian :)....

Well I'm known to have my ghetto ways...but it has always been very effective!!!

Your going to pay to have the work done multiple times just to see who is faster? RICH!!!!!!!

rich??? far from it. rich in humor yes. I didn't mean do it over and over just see you can eat their words.

So you've looked at countless dynos of the swaps? Please post some of before and after.
I'll do one for you:


i think i've seen that plot before somewhere. ;) whatup guys. :D

This should be great... We need a few more guys who are interested in the M50 manifold swap. I can get the manifolds for cheap.


I'm planning on doing this within a few weeks.

Rich,
If things go smoothly with my car, I have another friend who is interested in a m50 intake manifold swap. He has a 328is.

Rich,
If things go smoothly with my car, I have another friend who is interested in a m50 intake manifold swap. He has a 328is.
Hey man, yea deff. Just let me know. thanks. and if anyone ever needs help putting it in, let me know.

Let me know when you're able to source more manifolds and how much they go for. I won't really need help with the install, but wouldn't mind using a local "supplier" :)

Let me know when you're able to source more manifolds and how much they go for. I won't really need help with the install, but wouldn't mind using a local "supplier" :)

M50 swap into my 99M will be a Winter project. I miss my SCed Miata's charge to redline. Shifting at 6k-6.5k rpm just isn't as fun. I love to wring out an engine so the M50 is my style. I'm picking one up for $90+ ship...does that sound reasonable? I also think I'm going to go with the $$ Eurosport kit...not because I'm rich (I'm NOT), or because I'm lazy (I am), but because I want a clean install on my new-to-me M.

have the m50 on my 99 and if i had it to do again, i'd go with the eurosport kit. seriously, by the time yer done buying the home depot stuff it's like 1/3 the cost of that kit anyway, and you'll be much happier during install. the obd2 tubing is already enough of a rat's nest as it is before adding all sorts of elbows and tees whatnot.

have the m50 on my 99 and if i had it to do again, i'd go with the eurosport kit. seriously, by the time yer done buying the home depot stuff it's like 1/3 the cost of that kit anyway, and you'll be much happier during install. the obd2 tubing is already enough of a rat's nest as it is before adding all sorts of elbows and tees whatnot.

Wurd...think it is a 2hour job for anyone that is handy on working on cars. Worth the fit and finish..:buttrock

Wurd...think it is a 2hour job for anyone that is handy on working on cars. Worth the fit and finish..:buttrock

Hey are there ANY differences between M50s? Like between years and body styles?

Hey are there ANY differences between M50s? Like between years and body styles?
There is no performance differences in the M50 manifolds however the M50 manifold from the 525 looks slightly different if you look at where everything plugs in. Thats about it. It really doesnt matter which one you get.

any numbers yet!

My fingers are crossed to be close to what your car put down.


what nums are u lookin at?

what nums are u lookin at?
You queenz, if your going to be in b-more on nov 12, you should come down to the dyno day in cockeysville with a bunch of the guys from the boards.