so this happened about 2 weeks ago. We started at around 30mph. I drop it into second and we start going. I started with his nose at about the middle of my car. We get up to 80 and we let off. He gained on me about 1/2 car length so when we stopped we were mirror to mirrror. IT was a good run and fun. The guy I raced is one of my really good buddies and now he just droppeed in a bigger turbo and expecting 350hp :(

At the time i had intake and exhaust
he had intake, exhaust and chip

so this happened about 2 weeks ago. We started at around 30mph. I drop it into second and we start going. I started with his nose at about the middle of my car. We get up to 80 and we let off. He gained on me about 1/2 car length so when we stopped we were mirror to mirrror. IT was a good run and fun. The guy I raced is one of my really good buddies and now he just droppeed in a bigger turbo and expecting 350hp :(

At the time i had intake and exhaust
he had intake, exhaust and chip

Chip and exhaust is enough to hang with a 330. I'm assuming he was automatic.

Chip and exhaust is enough to hang with a 330. I'm assuming he was automatic.
really...? I'm not that optimistic about the 1.8T especially b6's

nope not an auto. I think its cuz it was a rolling start, and if we stopped at a light and launched i woulda died because of the AWD

really...? I'm not that optimistic about the 1.8T especially b6's

Then I'd say you made a foolish purchase buying your current vehicle.

I had zero problems pulling on my friends 330 with chip and exhaust. There should be zero problem with the 323...the audi has WAY more torque and and much flatter curve to boot!

yea sounds kinda fishy, when i just had a chip i raced my friends manual 330 and it was always a driversrace, if one of us messed up the other would win.

Chip and exhaust is enough to hang with a 330. I'm assuming he was automatic.

BS!!!!!!!!! i ran against a 330 on the freeway and i was in a heavyly modded TT, i couldn't run it down. he just walked away from me. i pulled third out to alittle over a hundred and just shut it down cause i wasn't even staying with him.

those A4's are dogs and very heavy (not to mention unreliable POS's).

you made the right choice with the BMW. slight modding and that glorified VW won't be able to touch you. not to mention how much more reliable your BMW is vs. anything with that crappy 1.8t motor.

BS!!!!!!!!! i ran against a 330 on the freeway and i was in a heavyly modded TT, i couldn't run it down. he just walked away from me. i pulled third out to alittle over a hundred and just shut it down cause i wasn't even staying with him.

those A4's are dogs and very heavy (not to mention unreliable POS's).

you made the right choice with the BMW. slight modding and that glorified VW won't be able to touch you. not to mention how much more reliable your BMW is vs. anything with that crappy 1.8t motor.
I can feel the audi boys coming....

BS!!!!!!!!! i ran against a 330 on the freeway and i was in a heavyly modded TT, i couldn't run it down. he just walked away from me. i pulled third out to alittle over a hundred and just shut it down cause i wasn't even staying with him.

those A4's are dogs and very heavy (not to mention unreliable POS's).

you made the right choice with the BMW. slight modding and that glorified VW won't be able to touch you. not to mention how much more reliable your BMW is vs. anything with that crappy 1.8t motor.

Meh, the audi pictured is faster then the M3 comp. Enough said.

I can feel the audi boys coming....
x2 :help :help

I can feel the audi boys coming....
yeah, even if it wasn't meant to be flame bait, that sure is what it is. :rolleyes :help

1.8t are slow stock and even with my friends b6 1.8t with awe exhaust giacc chip dv and evo. intake i still take him from a roll in 2nd gear. I don't know what your takin about. The only way to get the 1.8t is to upgrade the turbo.

BS!!!!!!!!! i ran against a 330 on the freeway and i was in a heavyly modded TT, i couldn't run it down. he just walked away from me. i pulled third out to alittle over a hundred and just shut it down cause i wasn't even staying with him.

those A4's are dogs and very heavy (not to mention unreliable POS's).

you made the right choice with the BMW. slight modding and that glorified VW won't be able to touch you. not to mention how much more reliable your BMW is vs. anything with that crappy 1.8t motor.
must not have been that heavily modified. :dunno

I can feel the audi boys coming....

If I weren't so confused by this new layout, I'd be sharpening my claws.

Actually, to be honest, that argument is so tired.

BS!!!!!!!!! i ran against a 330 on the freeway and i was in a heavyly modded TT, i couldn't run it down. he just walked away from me. i pulled third out to alittle over a hundred and just shut it down cause i wasn't even staying with him.

those A4's are dogs and very heavy (not to mention unreliable POS's).

you made the right choice with the BMW. slight modding and that glorified VW won't be able to touch you. not to mention how much more reliable your BMW is vs. anything with that crappy 1.8t motor.


Haha what does heavily modded mean to you, like rims and exhaust tips? a stock 225tt would take a 330 i'm pretty sure from any speed and a chipped one will smoke it, also you have to room calling a 1.8t a crappy motor when you drive old run down bmw's. i'm done, have a nice day.

Haha what does heavily modded mean to you, like rims and exhaust tips? a stock 225tt would take a 330 i'm pretty sure from any speed and a chipped one will smoke it, also you have to room calling a 1.8t a crappy motor when you drive old run down bmw's. i'm done, have a nice day.

Dont feed the troll.

Ahem.....I have a 523i with sport exhaust and chip....and I live in Germany where there is an overabundance of 1.8t's(from A3's to A4's to TT's....you get the picture)...and I have yet to see an 1.8 on the autobahn not get out of my way......never drove near one that could even hang......not saying its a crappy motor(cause you can do wonders with that engine with Turbocharging) but it CANNOT hang with a 2.5L inline-six...much less the 3.0L Inline-six.....oh yeah glorified VW? So what...Porsches are boutique VW's and Skoda is VW and Seat is VW....they are all pretty good, decent cars IMHO all german made!

come to the USA with your 523 and i'll show you countless 1.8t's that will make you get out of their way.

Uh-huh.....not on the Autobahn....light to light is a different story.....but between 100kmh and 240kmh...it wont happen....(Oh yeah I AM American by the way so dont get it twisted.....)

Uh-huh.....not on the Autobahn....light to light is a different story.....but between 100kmh and 240kmh...it wont happen....(Oh yeah I AM American by the way so dont get it twisted.....)

I'll DEFINATELY take that bet. ;)

If I weren't so confused by this new layout, I'd be sharpening my claws.

Actually, to be honest, that argument is so tired.
*sighs* yes, yes it is.

Dont feed the troll.
Please don't. thanks. I hardly partake in that argument, since I don't have much knowledge of the audis, but I'm tired of reading the same bickering over and over. :(

Uh-huh.....not on the Autobahn....light to light is a different story.....but between 100kmh and 240kmh...it wont happen....(Oh yeah I AM American by the way so dont get it twisted.....)

when did i ever say you wern't american i said come over to the USA since you dont live here or at least thats wat it says in ur sig, and the 2.5l bmw engines are not that strong at any speed unless heavily modded so i dont see what you are arguing.

e36 323's are embarrasingly slow, and have a major lack of torque. so does the 325. My 95 325i that I used to have was fun, but not a quick car by any means. the 1.8t is slow too in stock form. But w/ an intake exhaust and chip it'll take the 323, considering turbos respond better to mods. I still can't understand why some people make stories up, get a life

e36 323's are embarrasingly slow, and have a major lack of torque. so does the 325. My 95 325i that I used to have was fun, but not a quick car by any means. the 1.8t is slow too in stock form. But w/ an intake exhaust and chip it'll take the 323, considering turbos respond better to mods. I still can't understand why some people make stories up, get a life

ok fag go to audizine and look under quattrolauncher thats his name and ask him.

you fucking piece of shit go fuck yourself. I dont make shit up unlike other people here

e36 323's are embarrasingly slow, and have a major lack of torque. so does the 325. My 95 325i that I used to have was fun, but not a quick car by any means. the 1.8t is slow too in stock form. But w/ an intake exhaust and chip it'll take the 323, considering turbos respond better to mods. I still can't understand why some people make stories up, get a life
I bet I would have railed your 325i. 323s aren't as slow as people around here seem to think they are.....

ummm....hmmm...... dunesforyou, you probably want to edit the profanity, and the personal attack, well that pretty much means you may want to delete that whole post. But otherwise, when a mod sees it, they will lock the thread.

rims a mod? please.......he had revo on the tt with 4 bar FPR, turbo upgrade, upgraded turbo plumbing and intercooler and a different engine management setup (forget exactly what)......now i don't know if the 330i was stock, but he was a friend from the BMW dealer out on a test drive like myself.....i launched right in the sweet spot with the TT and he still had me.

and "tired old BMW's"........hell most 98' 1.8t audi's are tired or not on the road. the 1.8t is a horrible motor and has the shortest production run of almost any VW motor ever made. i was an audi/vw tech for quite a few years and i saw first hand how crappy these motors are. hell my "tired old bmw" motor has 200k on the clock and is still going strong and has never even needed a headgasket.....can you show me a VW/Audi motor that has done that? cause personally i have never seen it......true your little audi can be made fast with a chip and other mods but the fact is it won't last and IS nothing more than a glorified VW (A4's are built on the same platform as the Passat).

welll, stock b6 a4's are by no means fast cars. before they just redid it, the 1.8t would run high 15's low 16's stock. now with the new 2.0t motor im sure they could see low 15's if not high 14's. the silver lining is that these cars can be made into monsters with simple bolt ons. a 323i is not much of a competitor regardless of which car it's racing. 160hp w/a heavy car?? come on now.

how did 323is get the rep of being slow?? im so confused. and where do u get that 323's are heavy... i got a 323is and i would race a b6 any day of the week.

welll, stock b6 a4's are by no means fast cars. before they just redid it, the 1.8t would run high 15's low 16's stock. now with the new 2.0t motor im sure they could see low 15's if not high 14's. the silver lining is that these cars can be made into monsters with simple bolt ons. a 323i is not much of a competitor regardless of which car it's racing. 160hp w/a heavy car?? come on now.

well if vw/audi ever figures out their reliablity issues they will continue to loose customers (vwsucks.com). i want to see how the 2.0t does cause i know first hand how lousy the 1.8t was/is. have you heard anything about the revo programs for the 2.0t yet? i know they just came out with the program for the R32 (friend of mine has it)......

and i will agree with you the 323 isn't much of a competitor in stock trim, but i was referring to the audi a4 owner that said with a chip and exhaust he could kill a 330i....

how did 323is get the rep of being slow?? im so confused. and where do u get that 323's are heavy... i got a 323is and i would race a b6 any day of the week.
they definately aren't fast, that's for sure. They may be bale to beat civics, but after that.........

so this happened about 2 weeks ago. We started at around 30mph. I drop it into second and we start going. I started with his nose at about the middle of my car. We get up to 80 and we let off. He gained on me about 1/2 car length so when we stopped we were mirror to mirrror. IT was a good run and fun. The guy I raced is one of my really good buddies and now he just droppeed in a bigger turbo and expecting 350hp :(

At the time i had intake and exhaust
he had intake, exhaust and chip

Nice run, you win some and you lose some. Those chipped 1.8t:s are good competition for non-m bimmers.

i think ill post in here before the lock.
dunesforyou - what is your problem?

i refuse to buy into this brand war, i own a holden, a bmw, a mazda and a toyota.
i cant see what the big deal is.

sorry bout that hijack.

nice run, its always nice to find that perfect matchup.

well i guess i got a one of a kind 323is because mine is far from slow and civics... come on are we racing in reverse... mine is modded and is not slow but i never drove a stock 323is mines got dinan intake,dinan engine software, UUC LTWflywheel, supersprint catback..would that make a big difference...

ummmm... yeh.

so is it still slow.

so is it still slow.
it is probably decently quick, but still by no means fast. You can beat ricers around town, and that is plenty.

I remember when I got my first car, my Honda prelude S (140hp/tq) I thought it was fast as hell. I could beat most ricers around town and loved it. But the M3 is so much quicker, and I would hate to drive the prelude now. But the M3 isn't "fast" compared to many cars on the road nowadays.

its quicker than what im driving right now.
not slow, just the slower end of bimmer production.

its quicker than what im driving right now.
not slow, just the slower end of bimmer production.
pretty much what he said. it is quick, but it all depends on what you compare it to. Most of us, have m3s, so compared to our cars, it is slow.

Because the simplistic views car owners have normally say, if it isn't as fast as me, it's slow. If it weighs more than me, it's a pig. If it can't handle as well as me, it's a boat. :D

jesus H. christ guys, stop this nonsense. we all drive nice cars and thats all that counts. just let this rest

/

1.8t are slow stock and even with my friends b6 1.8t with awe exhaust giacc chip dv and evo. intake i still take him from a roll in 2nd gear. I don't know what your takin about. The only way to get the 1.8t is to upgrade the turbo.

Nice run, you win some and you lose some. Those chipped 1.8t:s are good competition for non-m bimmers.

I own both a 79 323i with 2.8 stroker m20 engine, and 03 GTI 20V 1.8 turbo.

I will have to say that VW 1.8s are not too fast unmodded. But with the proper software (Revo or other) Injectors, and Garrett 28rs or other turbo, they can run with very powerful cars. 300 HP or more is very doable.


In stock form I have raced many cars in My GTI, just for fun, and I can tell you I encountered a porsche on the highway, and I ran with him right up to 120 when we both backed off due to traffic. I was on his rear bumper the whole time, and I am sure he has giving all he had.:

But for a performance rear wheel drive car, the BMW is just a terrific car.
And very fun to mod.
My 323i was very fun, and with the new stroker 2.8 liter M20 engine with 524td crank I have should provide countless smiles.

It depends on the size of the car, and the weight, and the 323i e21 is about 2100 pounds, which gives it a fun HP to weight ratio.

Plenty of 1.8ts exist with 200k on the counter, just not so many in Ohio.

Your condescending attitude is pretty pathetic. You offer zero empirical data, and only vague opinion which most here read right through. Furthermore, you are definitely in the minority assuming you truly were an "audi/vw tech". Most techs swear by the engine and drive train, and say the caveat of vw/audi are the little things that go wrong...just like your old BMW. These motors are highly regarded as bulletproof workhorses. You’re attacking the wrong “weakness” of Audi/VW. It makes you look quite foolish and essentially invaldates your banter.

Relax with the brand loyalty...we all have it, but an old E30 BMW isn’t exactly a godsend. There are plenty of other excellent vehicles out there, even though it seems as if you are here merely to start a flame war...that or you are jealous of newer cars that are unfeasible for you to attain.

With that said, VTB.

"Plenty of 1.8ts exist with 200k on the counter, just not so many in Ohio."
? that's funny. you tell me "You offer zero empirical data, and only vague opinion which most here read right through" and here you don't at all to back up that first statement. go read any of the consumer reports magazines they all have poor showings in the vw line as well as the audi line......and the bit about "most techs swear by the driveline" hell i don't know of any that do. every tech i know agrees that the 1.8t is a problematic motor (water pump issues, oil sludge problems, constant oil leaks, turbo's that don't last, ecu issues, MAF, coil packs, etc....). you are talking to a former tech that was a former enthuist (sp). hands down the 1.8t is a lousy motor backed up by even more of a lousy namesake that doesn't want to stand behind their product at all (again, go check out the dealer network thing on vwsucks.com)........and "These motors are highly regarded as bulletproof workhorses" by whom? the only motor in their line up that has earned that title would be the lowly 2.0
and "You’re attacking the wrong “weakness” of Audi/VW." so which is the right weakness?

never said the e30 was a godsend, but i do believe that it set the standard for the 3 series line and has proven itself thus......and yes i agree there are other great brands out there, but audi/vw isn't one of them. toyota makes an excellent product line as does mazada for the money. and i am also fond of Mercedes as well, as having first started out working for them many a year ago.
and this was my fav "that or you are jealous of newer cars that are unfeasible for you to attain." no, i can obtain a newer one if i was so inclined. i just happen to like my older cars and have no real desire or want to drive something new. i do not want or wish to be at the mercy of a dealer when i need something done on my car (ie code read or whatnot) so that is why i drive older cars, simple as that.

this is a BMW forum last time i checked, you and your little glorifed VW seem to be lost.

IBTL.........:buttrock

eh, not worth my time.

eh, not worth my time.


You edited that one pretty quickly. Fact of the matter is, for as many websites you can find knocking vw/audi, you can find the same for BMW, Merc, etc. How about my brand new M3 (not pictured) that popped an engine after 5k (then popped another after 10k) BMW took it back. Or my fathers 760il that was a lemon buyback due to it being an electrical nightmare?

Again, your arguments are plagued with "bmw is king", when in fact, it isnt. No cars are king. Plus the fact that you list "mazada" as a quality vehicle, really makes me laugh. What you smoking over there, chief?

first up, not saying "bmw is king" just you are touting your audi as if it's exhaust doesn't stink or something..... and yes you are probably right that you could find me searches about poor bmw quality, but here of late the vw/audi line seems to be more common in the lack of quality and them not being proactive and standing behind their warrenty. you can find those articles time and again.......

whereas you could find me someone who has had a bad experience with BMW (and look you have two) it may not be as common as the countless numbers that have had good experience with them. VW is the reverse, you are hard up to find someone who has good experiences with them, but the bad experiences are numerious.

i have worked in both lines in a few dealers on different coasts and the customer complaints were far more frequent at vw/audi......not to mention saw more tow trucks come into the vw/audi dealer than bmw.

and "mazada as a quality vehicle".....well they rate higher than vw/audi has in the past. and i have read countless reviews of some of their sedans that have stated "you would not think it a Japanese vehicle after driving it, it drives more like a German sedan".....

look go out and be happy with your little vw based sedan wrapped up in leather interior and a different name on the hood........but just do it on a VW forum board. i mean if BMW bought back your "POS new m3" and you no longer have a bmw what are you doing here?

first up, not saying "bmw is king" just you are touting your audi as if it's exhaust doesn't stink or something..... and yes you are probably right that you could find me searches about poor bmw quality, but here of late the vw/audi line seems to be more common in the lack of quality and them not being proactive and standing behind their warrenty. you can find those articles time and again.......

whereas you could find me someone who has had a bad experience with BMW (and look you have two) it may not be as common as the countless numbers that have had good experience with them. VW is the reverse, you are hard up to find someone who has good experiences with them, but the bad experiences are numerious.

i have worked in both lines in a few dealers on different coasts and the customer complaints were far more frequent at vw/audi......not to mention saw more tow trucks come into the vw/audi dealer than bmw.

and "mazada as a quality vehicle".....well they rate higher than vw/audi has in the past. and i have read countless reviews of some of their sedans that have stated "you would not think it a Japanese vehicle after driving it, it drives more like a German sedan".....

look go out and be happy with your little vw based sedan wrapped up in leather interior and a different name on the hood........but just do it on a VW forum board. i mean if BMW bought back your "POS new m3" and you no longer have a bmw what are you doing here?


You are good at saying "little vw". Take your "little POS BMW", which is worth less then my audi's (or BMW's?) tires and be happy. At least I can afford the new BMW (or whatever other make or model I want) and not some rusted out piece found in a barn in Ohio. I guess that’s what an all-knowing uneducated tech gets to do, knock other makes because he can’t foot the bill?

The engine failures were on my 02 M3...pictured above is my 05, becuase I know that all cars have problems and none are perfect. Plus, if we are going to pick out misnomers, my car does not have leather. But, since you were such an excellent tech, you already knew that.

I've been on this message board a lot longer then you (not to mention my previous handles). Your elitist attitude are clearly indicative of a troll account and the reason that true automotive enthusiasts (that’s how you spell it, moron) who own BMWs catch a bad name. This thread should (and will be) locked. Don't come crying back here when a glorified Vw comes and "kills" you.

Like I said, you can tit, I can tat. For every unsatisfied Audi owner, there is a BMW owner experiencing the same. I'm saying equal, you are saying that VW is inferior.

and "tired old BMW's"........hell most 98' 1.8t audi's are tired or not on the road. the 1.8t is a horrible motor and has the shortest production run of almost any VW motor ever made. i was an audi/vw tech for quite a few years and i saw first hand how crappy these motors are. hell my "tired old bmw" motor has 200k on the clock and is still going strong and has never even needed a headgasket.....can you show me a VW/Audi motor that has done that? cause personally i have never seen it......true your little audi can be made fast with a chip and other mods but the fact is it won't last and IS nothing more than a glorified VW (A4's are built on the same platform as the Passat).

As a VW tech you should know that the longitudinal engine architecture (with or without Quattro) was developed by Audi and co-opted by VW for the previous generation Passat. Not the other way around.

So no, Audis are not a glorified VW, more like the other way around: VWs are de-contented Audis. Which is no bad thing, IMO.

My 98 A4 ran perfectly fine until I sold it 2 weeks ago. In fact it was more reliable than my ex. 98 M3 or my current 2003 330i, if I think about it. And it ran chipped since 5k miles without the slightest hiccup.

Some of the problems mentioned here sound worse than they were. The coil problem has affected some BMW models as well, it was a supplier issue. The oil sludge affected some models under certain conditions (very short commuting times without proper engine warming, and certain types of oil as far as I know). I would say not unexpected for any turbo engine...

As a tech, you probably mostly only saw the problems. Had you worked as a tech for BMW I would not be surprised if you ended up with a similar attitude.

Perfect cars? Not by any stretch of the imagination. But not bad at all, I had very pleasant experiences with my ex. Audis, of which there were several. (The local Audi dealer was a different experience altogether, and not for the good. :( )

adc
03 330 ZHP

Love the way you two "HIGHJACKED" this thread.....very good of you....that being said

I'll DEFINATELY take that bet. ;)

Come on there guy....we are talking stock 1.8t's........I have Digit-Power ChipTuning(European Tuner), BMC Carbon Dynamic Airbox, and Remus Exhaust System..........Trust me when I say that I have never had to get out of the way of any 1.8t(and there are a crapload of them here but i am pretty sure 99% of the ones I have seen are stock!)......

when did i ever say you wern't american i said come over to the USA since you dont live here or at least thats wat it says in ur sig, and the 2.5l bmw engines are not that strong at any speed unless heavily modded so i dont see what you are arguing.


Soooo.....ummm...the 1.8t "is" strong at any speed? I dunno...maybe I am just a good driver or something because I havent anything short of a M3 or the such(S4, S6, RS6, S3, RS4, 330i, 530i, 540i, 760il, etc, etc.....MB320...etc, etc..) just eat my lunch...I dont even mess with them...and most people dont drive their cars the speed they can go anyway....waste of money if you ask me....if you are gonna drive an S4 on the autobahn at 60mph then you should have bought a A4 1.8t right? LOL...that is NOT a jab either..as I said before they are a mod-happy engine I was thinking about getting a golf III 1.8t as a second car for work...and a little hobby work too!

*sigh* I was hoping this didn't turn into an Audi vs. BMW war. This gets old. :rolleyes

You are good at saying "little vw". Take your "little POS BMW", which is worth less then my audi's (or BMW's?) tires and be happy. At least I can afford the new BMW (or whatever other make or model I want) and not some rusted out piece found in a barn in Ohio. I guess that’s what an all-knowing uneducated tech gets to do, knock other makes because he can’t foot the bill? first up...i have no problem being able to afford a new BMW if i wanted one, but personally i am not a fan of the e90's and i have worked on the e46's and those too didn't do much for me. as i stated before i use to work for them and i don't want to be dependant on a dealer for anything (ie having them pull code and other things of that nature) that is why i haven't bought a new one, period. my financial status has nothing to do with it. but just like fellow vw/audi owners on the vortex you are reduced to insults......and my rusted e30 from Ohio? wrong, went out to Cali and bought it and had it shipped back, no rust.

The engine failures were on my 02 M3...pictured above is my 05, becuase I know that all cars have problems and none are perfect. Plus, if we are going to pick out misnomers, my car does not have leather. But, since you were such an excellent tech, you already knew that.

I've been on this message board a lot longer then you (not to mention my previous handles). Your elitist attitude are clearly indicative of a troll account and the reason that true automotive enthusiasts (that’s how you spell it, moron) who own BMWs catch a bad name. This thread should (and will be) locked. Don't come crying back here when a glorified Vw comes and "kills" you. troll account? hardly. i have been in the tech forum helping those fellow bmw owners out with problems/issues with their rides. as well as posting in the e21 and e30 forum. i am not a troll by any sense of the means nor am i an elitist in any way, don't get mad at me cause consumer reports ranks vw/audi at the bottom of the barrel. and congrats on you taking the time to run "enthusiasts" thru the spell check, i didn't feel like it. and i agree that this thread should be locked.

Like I said, you can tit, I can tat. For every unsatisfied Audi owner, there is a BMW owner experiencing the same. I'm saying equal, you are saying that VW is inferior. case is they are, you are trying to tell me that consumer reports not to mention a few other customer advocate magazines are wrong when they are saying how unreliable the vw/audi line is? hell even those on vw/audi sites agree that the newer ones aren't very reliable when compaired with other car lines out there

so feel free to come at me with another personal attack

Some of the problems mentioned here sound worse than they were. The coil problem has affected some BMW models as well, it was a supplier issue. yes and i remember the issues bmw had as well, it was no where near as bad as vw/audi and they addressed and resolved that problem a heck of a lot quicker...hell to this day vw/audi still doesn't have a fix for it for their MK4/A4 line

As a tech, you probably mostly only saw the problems. Had you worked as a tech for BMW I would not be surprised if you ended up with a similar attitude. worked for BMW as well, and don't see a similar attitude. BMW makes a much better product. they have the best vehicle diag out there right now. vw/audi, who the F runs their central locking system and part of the engine control thru the cluster? they are by far the worst with electronics of the German car manufactures.

Perfect cars? Not by any stretch of the imagination. But not bad at all, I had very pleasant experiences with my ex. Audis, of which there were several. (The local Audi dealer was a different experience altogether, and not for the good. :( ) well i would say you got lucky, but you paid how much for the audi? and the dealer was crappy? they don't back up their line like they should. i mean new A8 owners were given jetta loaners when they came in for breakdowns, that's just silly. their dealer network is abismal at best.

adc
03 330 ZHP


lock us.

Its abysmal. If your spelling and eloquence is anywhere near your knowledge of cars, I wouldnt let you near my glorified vw or BMW with a 10 foot pole. I guess thats what get as a graduate of U of BMW and VWU - but hey, at least you have dual degrees from two institutions. Looks like we have something in common.

Further, dont both audi and BMW use the bosch multitronic engine management system?

Loaners vary from dealer to dealer. Back to my fathers $100k+ 750, he got pointed over to enterprise for a loaner. The same has happened to me with my m3.

PS - I had to run spell check before making this post.

again with the personal attacks. i am back on the vortex and didn't even know it.

here, go to vwsucks.com and tell all the owners there how stupid they are if they can't spell every last little word correctly and how they should love their cars, that constant breakdowns are normal.

damn, where's that lock?

[QUOTE=DJProfessor]rims a mod? please.......he had revo on the tt with 4 bar FPR, turbo upgrade, upgraded turbo plumbing and intercooler and a different engine management setup (forget exactly what)......now i don't know if the 330i was stock, but he was a friend from the BMW dealer out on a test drive like myself.....i launched right in the sweet spot with the TT and he still had me.

was this car a manual? if so did you know that you have to shift? because if you did this one simple thing a tage 3 tt should not have trouble with anything short of a e46 m3.

it was manual.....i slapped her into third at about 65mph or so pulled a nice 18lbs of boost and held it to about 100mph give or take....i wasn't pulling on him at all, and he actually got the jump on me right off the bat. he then started to pull away from me so i just shut it down.........now i have no idea whether or not the 330i was modded, never asked the kid. but the tt i was in was done up very nice. and honestly i thought i was going to wax the BMW cause i knew the history with the tt as far as the mods went.

Is there a price for the winner? Damn u guys put a lot of energy into a stupid pissing contest over a subject which has no meaning at all. Both cars are good and we all buy what we personally like the most...

:beer

euro i love your avaitar........that shiz made me LOL at my desk at work.



"my name is ryan george and this is my scion xa"

CALLING FOR A LOCK... PLEASE!!!:help

Lets see the title of the m in hand, because I for one find it fishy.

Lets see the title of the m in hand, because I for one find it fishy.
He's a respected member on this board, it's not a fish story.
That being said, I'm pretty proud that I've stayed out of this one. Yeah, Me!!

Lets see the title of the m in hand, because I for one find it fishy.

you caught me!!

Just kidding.

FYI - those arent the only two cars in the stable. It gets even more eclectic :eek: .

He's a respected member on this board, it's not a fish story.
That being said, I'm pretty proud that I've stayed out of this one. Yeah, Me!!
yeah, why is it fishy that mmart owns an M3?

But gj redfoot, enough people joining in already. :stickoutt

Its just fishy that its not the car in his sig. I know what car i would rather see every time mmart posted, maybe if the audi had some nicer wheels...

Its just fishy that its not the car in his sig. I know what car i would rather see every time mmart posted, maybe if the audi had some nicer wheels...
what do you mean not the car in his sig? have you seen his car in RL or sumptin?

he has a 1.8t and a M3 in his sig.

Its just fishy that its not the car in his sig. I know what car i would rather see every time mmart posted, maybe if the audi had some nicer wheels...

Had some nicer wheels? I think the rs4 wheels are very nice thanks. The wheels were my last concern when building the car. All I needed was something to clear the stoptechs and the decision was made. Besides, why would I drop so much coin on wheels, its whats invested in the drive train that counts.

I'm pretty proud that I've stayed out of this one. Yeah, Me!!

Ditto, heh.

After further investigation, consumer reports recommends the A4 over the 3 series. :eek:

I Love Lamp!

After further investigation, consumer reports recommends the A4 over the 3 series. :eek:

Thats due to price difference if I am not mistaken.....if they were both priced the same then they might possibly have said the Bimmer......

I swear, I'm never viewing this thread again!!!!!:mad
Really!:mad
I mean it!:mad
I can't get enough!:bawling

Meh, the audi pictured is faster then the M3 comp. Enough said.

Would you please tell us what have you done to the car in addition to the APR stg3 kit? Your car is awd right?

APR dynos the stg3 kit at 280crankhp and you claim to be faster than a 343hp rwd car :confused The M3 puts the same hp to the wheels.. It doesnt add up ;)

Would you please tell us what have you done to the car in addition to the APR stg3 kit? Your car is awd right?

APR dynos the stg3 kit at 280crankhp and you claim to be faster than a 343hp rwd car :confused The M3 puts the same hp to the wheels.. It doesnt add up ;)

FMIC, beta programming (more agressive file), test pipe and some other bits. Dynod at 260awhp. Furthermore, peak numbers are meaningless...its all about power under the curve.

This setup isnt going to last long...I placed my order for the 3+ (gt28rs) kit yesterday.

Would you please tell us what have you done to the car in addition to the APR stg3 kit? Your car is awd right?

APR dynos the stg3 kit at 280crankhp and you claim to be faster than a 343hp rwd car :confused The M3 puts the same hp to the wheels.. It doesnt add up ;)
just as a FYI. The US e46 M3 has 333bhp while the Euro had 343bhp. :)

FMIC, beta programming (more agressive file), test pipe and some other bits. Dynod at 260awhp. Furthermore, peak numbers are meaningless...its all about power under the curve.

This setup isnt going to last long...I placed my order for the 3+ (gt28rs) kit yesterday.

To get 260hp to wheels you must have around 350chp, a whopping 70hp more than the normal stg3. Sounds strange to me, that means APR has made a big mistake with their exhaust design and chip programming when designing the original stg3. :confused

Also the E46M3 smgII with a good driver runs 13 flat quarters with 109mph trap.. That is 100% stock, pump gas and street tyres. Can you honestly say that your audi is faster than that? You got your butt seriously handed to you by a 400hp M5 a few months ago (launch, you gained many cl's, he blew your doors off and got 5 cl's on you), what makes the E46M3 so much slower than the E39M5?

This leads to the question, do you actually own an M3?

There was a thread some time ago where you were seeking a buyer (re-leaser?) for your brothers leased 2005 M3 comp.. hmm.

Sorry if I come across as impolite but making those claims and never posting about your M3 has got me thinking there is something strange going on. I'm sure you can clarify these things once and for all. :)

BS!!!!!!!!! i ran against a 330 on the freeway and i was in a heavyly modded TT, i couldn't run it down. he just walked away from me. i pulled third out to alittle over a hundred and just shut it down cause i wasn't even staying with him.

those A4's are dogs and very heavy (not to mention unreliable POS's).

you made the right choice with the BMW. slight modding and that glorified VW won't be able to touch you. not to mention how much more reliable your BMW is vs. anything with that crappy 1.8t motor.
what does heavily modded means to you??
if you turbo it, i will say it's heavily modded, and you would have walk the 330 for sure

To get 260hp to wheels you must have around 350chp, a whopping 70hp more than the normal stg3. Sounds strange to me, that means APR has made a big mistake with their exhaust design and chip programming when designing the original stg3. :confused

Also the E46M3 smgII with a good driver runs 13 flat quarters with 109mph trap.. That is 100% stock, pump gas and street tyres. Can you honestly say that your audi is faster than that? You got your butt seriously handed to you by a 400hp M5 a few months ago (launch, you gained many cl's, he blew your doors off and got 5 cl's on you), what makes the E46M3 so much slower than the E39M5?

This leads to the question, do you actually own an M3?

There was a thread some time ago where you were seeking a buyer (re-leaser?) for your brothers leased 2005 M3 comp.. hmm.

Sorry if I come across as impolite but making those claims and never posting about your M3 has got me thinking there is something strange going on. I'm sure you can clarify these things once and for all. :)

Sigh - I've posted this before. 260awhp isnt unreasonable for a stage 3, its what all the strong stage 3 cars are putting down. I dont know how you figured 350chp. Most of us are estimating closer to 320 assuming a 23% drive train loss. Looking at the flow charts of the turbo, this is very doable. I dont know how they didnt design the exhaust? incorrectly. I have a test pipe, not a cat in place, so that is good for a solid 15hp. Same design, just no cat. The chip tuning on the original kit is also very adequate...for 280hp. The software I have is designed for a FMIC with the lower IATs along with an electronic boost controler. The standard software is meant to run the n75 with the factory SMIC. My version runs more timing. Having the boost controler in place of the n75 also yields more power, becuase with the n75, the large boost spikes maxes out the stock MAP sensor. Doing so causes the ecu to pull timing in the mid range and only giving some of it back at the top end when the boost starts to taper. And no, its not 70 more HP then the standard stage 3 kits. They put down around 225awhp. A k04 setup can clear 200whp (I made 215awhp/250awtq with my k04 setup). Trust me, the car is making the power I say.

I assumed the lease on the car for my s/o and he got the larger car he needed.

109 traps, I dont know what to say to that, but my audi is not capable of those numbers (on this turbo, at least). From reading these forums, it seems that the real numbers are closer to 104...which is what my car is good for (and duplicated by other stage 3 cars). And AFAIK, yes the m5 is way faster then the m3...marketing anyone?

So yes, the m3 does exist. And anyone that wants to bring an m3 and do some pulls, that'll be great. As I've said before, loser buys the first round of brews!

AFAIK the e39 m5 will spank an e46 m3. Perhaps maybe the 0-60 is close, but as speeds increase, I'm sure the M5 pulls steadily. I'd assume it is like the comparison of the e36 m3 and the e39 540.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/Littlelee1/someone-with-a-different-opinion.gif

:lol OMGHI2U!1! That crap cracked me up. :lol3 :rofl

I felt it was deserved in this thread...been watching it for quite some time now...lol.

really...? I'm not that optimistic about the 1.8T especially b6's



A Garrett 28rs disco potato, turbo upgrade along with software, and other mods, can make the Audi or VW very strong.

Example: Their is a certain VW GTI running a ATP stage III setup with a garrett 28rs, FMIC and other mods including supension and brakes.

A porsche and this GTI have gone head to head, and for more than just once, the GTI is faster.

Like I said before - you have to spend the money on the turbo upgrade, ATP or Revo chip, injectors, FMIC and supension mods, but when you do this the 1.8 turbo gets to about 300 or more HP. There is one 1.8 turbo that runs a t03/t04 on it, and it has even smoked corvettes according to the owner.
This kid has lost his license for doing 130 in a 35. :eek:

So, can a GTI 1.8 turbo or Audi 1.8 turbo beat an e46 m3? Yes, but it would have to be a heavily modifed 1.8 vs a stock e46.

E46s can be moded as well.
You can change the intake manifold on the e46, and 400 HP can be obtained.

Dunes4you: I would be mad too if someone called my bluff, and if someone was as cheap as you are to buy a 323i instead of a 328, so do yourself a favor and suck my nuts like a toothless squirrel, and hang urself! Have a nice day;)

damn this thread just won't die..........:D


man it still hurts when i pee

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/Littlelee1/someone-with-a-different-opinion.gif

:lol :lol :lol Best part of the thread.

I dont know if it is against thr forum rules to post up a thread from a different site but here it goes http://audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66274

this guy made about 340awhp and 310awtq on a gt28rs setup and many other people have had similar results, so it isnt very hard for me to see a stage 3 1.8t absolutely smoke an e46 m3 if its making this much power.

just looking at the first race gas dyno sheet, it's impressive but in no way would he be getting anywhere with a lag so bad.

a car with such a steep curve kills the whole driving experience.

more power to the owner but it's not a setup I'd be interested in driving daily.

just looking at the first race gas dyno sheet, it's impressive but in no way would he be getting anywhere with a lag so bad.

a car with such a steep curve kills the whole driving experience.

more power to the owner but it's not a setup I'd be interested in driving daily.


OK...lets just compare these two dynos E46 M3 and the above linked turbo.

M3
http://www.ssl.physics.ncsu.edu/matt/dyno.jpg

A4
http://www.skulsky.com/html/JimboSanGT28RS.jpg

Looks like it is making similar power around 3000 and more power by 3500 and on up. Below 3000...well thats a different story. Its easy to drive around the lag.

e46 m3s are relatively high revving bimmers compared to most.

e46 m3s are relatively high revving bimmers compared to most.

The point is all it takes is 3000 rpms in that particular 1.8, and its making more power thne the m3. Granted that below that, the m3 is making double the audi...but who drives below 3k anyways?

I see your point but compare it to an S52 and we have a better comparison. I'd love to post my own graph up but I don't have one yet. :(

working with a 200 whp jump in 2,000 rpm can be abusive, I deal with it in my own galant and it can be a pita when trying to drive smoothly. I'm forced to shift up early when trying to avoid a 4 wheel spin in the wet.

what I'm saying is that the A4's 1.8T can produce great numbers but you sacrifice driveability.

-Ron

The point is all it takes is 3000 rpms in that particular 1.8, and its making more power thne the m3. Granted that below that, the m3 is making double the audi...but who drives below 3k anyways?
:wave I do, it's around town tooling that makes my E36 so easy to drive. boosted with a low compression motor but still has more then enough torque to light them up at low engine speeds.

the difference here is that I'm driving a motor that is double the displacement so that's a bad comparison.

:wave I do, it's around town tooling that makes my E36 so easy to drive. boosted with a low compression motor but still has more then enough torque to light them up at low engine speeds.

the difference here is that I'm driving a motor that is double the displacement so that's a bad comparison.

I agree, big turbos have their pros and cons....but the pros outwiegh the cons for me. And I also believe that this particular A4 isnt a good example. 350+whp on the stock internals and the motor isnt going to last long...plus hes on the edge of the efficiency range of the particular turbo. Dyno queen me thinks.

I agree, big turbos have their pros and cons....but the pros outwiegh the cons for me. And I also believe that this particular A4 isnt a good example. 350+whp on the stock internals and the motor isnt going to last long...plus hes on the edge of the efficiency range of the particular turbo. Dyno queen me thinks.
me thinks that you and I are thinking the same thing and agree on the main points. :)

Good good, people actually talking like normal people do without all of the fighting, i love it.

Good good, people actually talking like normal people do without all of the fighting, i love it.
:shifty





:stickoutt

OK, not only am i new to this thread, but to bimmerforums as well. I just figured that i would get my 2 cents in before it gets locked.

A) This started out as one guy saying that he beat an A4 in a race with his 323i. Big deal. There are so many variables involved here. Now its become a brand war, for every car on this website there are faster cars, who cares?
Way to change the subject.

B) When my parents got their first bmw in 97, they test drove the A4 right before and said it was a dog with the quattro, they actually preferred the cadillac catera over it in performance and handling. I can not personally back their statement but i know that it was their mutual decison that the BMW was far superior

C) I have seen A4's that have run with F-Body Camaro's with 300+ HP. Anything can perform well if you put the time and money into it. People shouldn't be knocking the audi's.

D) Its funny hearing all you people talk about stage 3 this and that and how this cant make x amount of hp with that. I had 409 WHP in my 95 Eclipse GSX, with about $2500 in mods, and 140k miles on the stock motor. Unfortunatly i hit a tree at 90mph before i got to bring it to the strip. Bang for the buck cant beat that except maybe with a 5.0 mustang. The audi responds very well to modification. So does a WRX. Big deal. If you own a BMW you know that its about more than straight line performance. Thats why you didnt buy a 68 Chevelle. Neither car is the fastest car on the planet.
This isnt to say that BMW's cant be modded sucessfully. I have beat a WRX with 3" turbo back exhaust, intake and 15lbs of boost, with my 325is from 70-110. It all depends. Just give it up guys

welcome to the forum.

I see no reason why this thread should be locked, I just see a few members getting carried away with some rule breaking.

I'm not flaming in any way or trying to get off topic but can you inform me how you can get 409awhp in a gsx with only 2500$?

It all depends. Just give it up guys

If you cant handle it, then the kills section isnt for you!

I'm not flaming in any way or trying to get off topic but can you inform me how you can get 409awhp in a gsx with only 2500$?


Used 20g turbo, starion FMIC, Walbro 255, injectors, custom exhaust a friend made at work w/ 3" tubing from the turbo back, manual boost contol, intake,
HKS cams take off from salvage, a few other things i cant remember because it was 3 years ago

To mmart6545-

I just believe its a little immature that people just sit around all night to rag on each other, The only reason that i've been on so much as of late is because i am self employed and 50 percent of my job is dealing with customers online. What do you do? It seems like you spend an awful lot of time on here? I've seen your posts on nearly every thread, and almost all are very negative and condesending. I would consider it inappropriate to comment on someone's choice of an older model vehicle in a manner such as you have, touting your ability to puchase several new automobiles and claiming without knowing someone that they can't afford to. If they can not that does not discredit their opinions and experiences. Many people chose to purchase used vehicles due to the 10-15% depreciation on a new car as soon as it leaves the lot. Of my 7 cars i didn't purchase any new. I simply can not afford to at this time, trying to buy a house with real estate at 1,000,000 dollars an acre here. So a used car i will drive. :nono

now this thread is really getting off topic.

anyways, what did you do with your wrecked gsx? still got it?

now this thread is really getting off topic.

anyways, what did you do with your wrecked gsx? still got it?

I wish, i had it towed home, sat in my yard for about a month, and the landlord made me get rid of it. Long story short, sold it to some guy that parts the cars out for 1500 dollars and took a BIG hit.

Do you still have those seats? Im looking for a set for my friends car. Where are you located?

Sigh - I've posted this before. 260awhp isnt unreasonable for a stage 3, its what all the strong stage 3 cars are putting down. I dont know how you figured 350chp. Most of us are estimating closer to 320 assuming a 23% drive train loss. Looking at the flow charts of the turbo, this is very doable. I dont know how they didnt design the exhaust? incorrectly. I have a test pipe, not a cat in place, so that is good for a solid 15hp. Same design, just no cat. The chip tuning on the original kit is also very adequate...for 280hp. The software I have is designed for a FMIC with the lower IATs along with an electronic boost controler. The standard software is meant to run the n75 with the factory SMIC. My version runs more timing. Having the boost controler in place of the n75 also yields more power, becuase with the n75, the large boost spikes maxes out the stock MAP sensor. Doing so causes the ecu to pull timing in the mid range and only giving some of it back at the top end when the boost starts to taper. And no, its not 70 more HP then the standard stage 3 kits. They put down around 225awhp. A k04 setup can clear 200whp (I made 215awhp/250awtq with my k04 setup). Trust me, the car is making the power I say.

I assumed the lease on the car for my s/o and he got the larger car he needed.

109 traps, I dont know what to say to that, but my audi is not capable of those numbers (on this turbo, at least). From reading these forums, it seems that the real numbers are closer to 104...which is what my car is good for (and duplicated by other stage 3 cars). And AFAIK, yes the m5 is way faster then the m3...marketing anyone?

So yes, the m3 does exist. And anyone that wants to bring an m3 and do some pulls, that'll be great. As I've said before, loser buys the first round of brews!

Thanks for the reply mmart6545, the thread has taken many turns since yesterday (I'm in europe.. ;) )

First of all, that is a really nice a4 you have there and props for making it competitive against cars like M3 and such. Now to the beef: 260awhp with a 23% driveline loss = 340chp, my estimate of 350 was based on a loss% of 25 (estimates seem to be from 22-28%) so there is still a giant leap from a normal stg3 on apr's own dyno. (340chp minus 23% to driveline = 262 to wheels)

A completely stock 2005 M3 SMG2 timeslip:
http://www.dragtimes.com/2005-BMW-M3-Pictures-5454.html

E39M5 performs nearly identically in the quarter so if you took a serious beating from one of them I really think you overestimate the audi (or underestimate the new M3) :) I'm assuming you are a good driver so your loss wasn't due to a mis-shift or other incident.

I'd love to race you but meeting halfway to do it would mean a huge grip issue for the both of us ;) Get you brother to drive the M3 and have someone take a video, I'll buy you a virtual beer no matter what the outcome :)

What do you do?

I live in a van down by the river.

I seriously think that there are alot more cars out there are just as good as BMW for lesser money, and we shouldn't bash on other cars because they are not BMWs. Don't get me wrong, I had an E36 M3 and I love it. Just don' think its worth the time to argue over this over and over again... I'm actually considering either an Audi or BMW for my next car, maybe Infiniti FX35?

I seriously think that there are alot more cars out there are just as good as BMW for lesser money, and we shouldn't bash on other cars because they are not BMWs. Don't get me wrong, I had an E36 M3 and I love it. Just don' think its worth the time to argue over this over and over again... I'm actually considering either an Audi or BMW for my next car, maybe Infiniti FX35?
an SUV that isn't even capable off road is something you're putting in comparison to a bimmer? :confused

an SUV that isn't even capable off road is something you're putting in comparison to a bimmer? :confused
Hey hey hey, you can go off road with that baby, it is just unlikely you will get back on the road, because you will be stuck out in the woods. :stickoutt

you can go off road with an e30 318i with more luck.

I seriously think that there are alot more cars out there are just as good as BMW for lesser money, and we shouldn't bash on other cars because they are not BMWs. Don't get me wrong, I had an E36 M3 and I love it. Just don' think its worth the time to argue over this over and over again... I'm actually considering either an Audi or BMW for my next car, maybe Infiniti FX35?

My mother has one (2wd). Awesome "truck"...built on the z platform, unlike the morano which is the maxima (fwd). Handles really well for what it is, but it is small on the inside.

Dunes4you: I would be mad too if someone called my bluff, and if someone was as cheap as you are to buy a 323i instead of a 328, so do yourself a favor and suck my nuts like a toothless squirrel, and hang urself! Have a nice day;)


im sorry if you dont understand english but i cant do anything about it. Stop crying

The 323Ci i drove for 2 months could have been the slowest car i've ever driven, that car is more for crusing then speed. I will say that the 323 is slow its a 2.5l but not like a 325. 170hp with 171lbs tq? My 1.8T is similar, its lighter and hella quicker. I love my VW but i still love BMWs more so its all german ill take it. Stop the fighting, fellow enthusiasts shouldnt do that.

You know I am really interested in all of those who bash the 323ci, 323i, 523i....how many have driven them? E36 or E46? European Model or American Model? I personally have a 523i and can honestly say it isnt a "slow" car.....low end torque(1,2,3 gear) is nice and strong.....major difference is that the 525i has more torque in 4 and 5 and a higher top-end.....but I know I can go 135-140mph in mine and it doesnt take more than lets say 30-40 seconds to get there...errr..I dont know if that is slow or not....I will have my GF time it for me next time we drive somewhere.....oh yeah and how many of you with all of this HP "really" get to use it? I dont know any highways in the states that let you drive that fast and I dont think most of you are Auto-Xing them frequently....so why bother with all of that turbo stuff on an Audi OR Bimmer???

You know I am really interested in all of those who bash the 323ci, 323i, 523i....how many have driven them? E36 or E46? European Model or American Model? I personally have a 523i and can honestly say it isnt a "slow" car.....low end torque(1,2,3 gear) is nice and strong.....major difference is that the 525i has more torque in 4 and 5 and a higher top-end.....but I know I can go 135-140mph in mine and it doesnt take more than lets say 30-40 seconds to get there...errr..I dont know if that is slow or not....I will have my GF time it for me next time we drive somewhere.....oh yeah and how many of you with all of this HP "really" get to use it? I dont know any highways in the states that let you drive that fast and I dont think most of you are Auto-Xing them frequently....so why bother with all of that turbo stuff on an Audi OR Bimmer???

I'm surprised you have to ask - it's the acceleration. The rush of G-forces. Has nothing to do with top speed.

And if you think your car pulls strong, try out a 330 sometimes to feel the next level.

Then jump into an M3 for the next one.

Then seek a wildly modified turbo car, for the next one.

If you still think your car is fast after this, then your internal ear is probably all messed up. :devillook

adc
03 330 ZHP

LOL...no I know how each of those feel......just wanted to make sure there is a distinction between the top speed and the acceleration.....i think Acceleration is more important stateside and top speed and fuel economy is more important over here in Europe.......oh yeah and I still think the 1.8t is a pretty cool little engine....

we don thave 523's in the states just to let ya know. But the 323/325 are moderately quick cars. But when you get used to an e36 m3 or faster, they are SLOW. Also, I knwo of a few roads, that i can top out my vehicle, but topping out the ride isn't all that imporant. It isn't exciting. The car is way too stable to even make you worry at all.

agreed^ WHen you said 323's are slow you can say any e36 is slow besides the m3 cuz your used to your car's power. Im used to my cars power and dont think its slow.

agreed^ WHen you said 323's are slow you can say any e36 is slow besides the m3 cuz your used to your car's power. Im used to my cars power and dont think its slow.
yeah, it all depends on what somebody is used to. If I went from a bone stock 1.6L honda civic dx with sohc, to a e36 323, then I'd think it was fast as hell. All depends on what you are used to.

Hehe....well in that case I am used to driving speeds in excess of 90-100mph!
Maybe thats why it doesnt seem that "slow" to me...I think that most of the time it is the driver unless your car has massive amounts of HP more than whoever you may be happening to pass....errr...racing.....you KNOW what I mean...LOL...oh yeah...I know they dont have 523i's in the states.....LOL...buuut I have raced a guy (before my chip) with a E46 323i and he was NOT pulling on me....well not that much...maybe half a car length...now I dynoed my car about a month ago at BOSCH and it came out to 171.3rwhp....I think that is pretty damn good for a car rated at 170hp by the book.......and lastly...topping out your ride on the AUTOBAHN is exciting because it isnt a 1mile stretch AND you dont have to watch for cops! I mean come on....135mph or more for 5miles???? Drive into Bavaria or down towards the Austrian border and you will know what I mean.....

Hehe....well in that case I am used to driving speeds in excess of 90-100mph!
Maybe thats why it doesnt seem that "slow" to me...I think that most of the time it is the driver unless your car has massive amounts of HP more than whoever you may be happening to pass....errr...racing.....you KNOW what I mean...LOL...oh yeah...I know they dont have 523i's in the states.....LOL...buuut I have raced a guy (before my chip) with a E46 323i and he was NOT pulling on me....well not that much...maybe half a car length...now I dynoed my car about a month ago at BOSCH and it came out to 171.3rwhp....I think that is pretty damn good for a car rated at 170hp by the book.......and lastly...topping out your ride on the AUTOBAHN is exciting because it isnt a 1mile stretch AND you dont have to watch for cops! I mean come on....135mph or more for 5miles???? Drive into Bavaria or down towards the Austrian border and you will know what I mean.....
Oh i would love driving that fast for long periods of time. I'm just saying, if i had to pick one, I'd rather go up to speeds of say 100, but get there really quick, rather than not accelerate really fast, and be able to cruise at 160 for awhile. I prefer down low grunt, hmm.....maybe I shoudl've gotten some domestic trash to drive. :stickoutt

Hey trust me you dont want domestic trash....I had an Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais S......it was the first car I ever bought and I regret it to this day....engine was turned sideways....or should i say rotated down...or something like that...anyway a pain in the derrier to work on....my other domestic POS car was a Dodge Shadow ES.....actually in hindsight not too bad a domestic POS...two door coupe...pretty small with a under-powered 3.0L V6....I shake my head because if Dodge had marketed it right it could have been a monster...a better monster than those POS Neon SRT-4's running around.....ah well....

The 323Ci i drove for 2 months could have been the slowest car i've ever driven, that car is more for crusing then speed. I will say that the 323 is slow its a 2.5l but not like a 325. 170hp with 171lbs tq? My 1.8T is similar, its lighter and hella quicker. I love my VW but i still love BMWs more so its all german ill take it. Stop the fighting, fellow enthusiasts shouldnt do that.

Dude...you have a VW GTI....there is a VERY large weight difference there...so of course you 1.8t is going to feel lighter and quicker.....now put the 2.5L I6 in the GTI body......or better yet find a 323ti or a 325ti and then we will see...apples to apples...oranges to oranges right?

Now this whole thread is just rediculous,

My new 04 BMW with 1200miles on it, in completely stock form, is faster to 100 than any stock Audi, ever. period. screw awd. end of story. i win. goodnight.
















with two-wheels and a 1130cc oilhead boxer-twin, that is :devillook

I actually like audi (unlike the new VW's) especially their old inline 5's,:werd:
just playin around, keep it real people, *ucking is more fun than fighting :drink1

btw. Black, naked R1150R, with KRS mirrors on the way! Yeah!

I honestly dont know what there isnt to like about the design of the new VW's....maybe they look different in Europe...like Honda (the old 97-00 Civics look a liiiiittle bit different over here..not to much but noticeable). The new Passat Convertible, the new VW GTI, and the VW Touraeg are very, very good looking IMHO...better than what Audi has done to the A3 and A4....err...well the A8 is pretty awesome though....it looks pretty mean when you see one driving by...but those Grouper mouth grills have to go!

new VW's = boring

especially compared to the classics,
and you'd have to be crazy to hate those.

Yeah well maybe driving them but the ones i mentioned are not optically boring and look better at least to me than their "new" BMW counterparts.....

i dont like the new VWs. like the jetta, *yeck*. My favorite jetta is the body style, that the guy had in Fast & Furious, that was my favorite vehicle in that whole movie.

That's cool if you like them adrean, but style wise to me the new e90 is a golden god when you compare it to the new Jetta.

and i'm not crazy about the e90 either

done:- I thought the charger was pretty cool, plus that kid from Malcom in the Middle bought the Jetta which totally ruins it.:D

That's cool if you like them adrean, but style wise to me the new e90 is a golden god when you compare it to the new Jetta.

and i'm not crazy about the e90 either

done:- I thought the charger was pretty cool, plus that kid from Malcom in the Middle bought the Jetta which totally ruins it.:D
well the charger wasn't bad, except for when it hits the truck, the blower is fake. :D

Also, yeah Frankie Muniz bought it, but hell, he has a pretty good car collection.

Ok I have to clarify something when it comes to the V-dubs.....the new Jetta is aight...the drop-top looks much better than the sedan....the states doesnt have the new Golf V yet let alone the Golf V GTI.....a much improved hatchback IMHO(I am partial to hatchbacks....dont know why I've always been that way). Here is a pic of the new Golf GTI:
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b240/adrean8j/golfVgti.jpg
I mean that isnt nice looking?
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b240/adrean8j/Volkswagen_Golf_GTI_5-door_2004_019.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b240/adrean8j/Volkswagen_Golf_GTI_5-door_2004_020.jpg
What about the Concept C? That is also a good looking car....
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b240/adrean8j/ConceptC.jpg
VW knows what they are doing and have been in the business a looooooooong time.

p.s. Sorry photos so large.....
edit: the pic link wasnt working so I had to post it somewhere else and then link it.

i dont like the new VWs. like the jetta, *yeck*. My favorite jetta is the body style, that the guy had in Fast & Furious, that was my favorite vehicle in that whole movie.
jetta III was the last true vw worthy of money.

jetta III was the last true vw worthy of money.

Really? Didnt Golf III's have the same engines and drivetrains as the Jetta III's???

they did and they were virtually the same car.

perhaps I should have stated that the golf/jetta III blah blah blah. :)

Its all good LOL...I personally have a special place in my heart for VW and have owned two in theory...a Golf II back in '97 and a Seat Toledo GT 2.0 in '02..they both did me well and I didnt have any major complaint about them. Drove fast enough for commuting to work and parts were cheap if something did break(I am in Germany after all, and it IS a Peoples Wagon!).
But you dont think the new Golf V looks good????

they did and they were virtually the same car.

perhaps I should have stated that the golf/jetta III blah blah blah. :)
WHich is the III? ALso which is the one in F&F? Is that the IV or the III?


The Golf V is alright, the Concept C doesn't look bad. I honestly thing the R32 is one of the better looking VW's. That body style GTI doesn't look better, but the Dual exhaust really brought that car together IMO.

I think that was a Jetta IV in F&F....I think it is probably one of the best designs for the Jetta ever. In Heidelberg here there is a guy with a Red Bora with deep-dish 18's, large brembo brake kit in red, some type of lowering springs and he keeps it nicely waxed....very nice looking VW...I wish i had a pic.....not all vw's are that bad....

F&F jetta was a Jetta III. I owned a Jetta IV and it was a horrible experience.

the Golf IV was a beautiful design (R32 etc) but it was a POS (as well as the jetta IV) in terms of engineering.