We are looking at Turn #6 at the Autobahn Country Club (http://www.autobahncountryclub.net) in Joliet, IL.

This is a new track and I have only driven it once. I did not have an instructor that day so I am working to figure this track out before I return. Since this is a new track (opened late 2004, IIRC), this is a chance to start building the collective knowledgebase.

The green line is my best guess so far.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b327/Hornswoggler/Car%20pictures/AutobahnTurn6.jpg

Discuss. :)

oh, and nevermind my crappy artistic skillz. :stickoutt

Course is running clockwise or anti?

It's really impossible to tell without seeing the elevation, pavement, etc, etc. Is there a long straight before it so that you need to lengthen the straight as much as possible into the turn? Is there a long straight afterward so that you need to setup to get straight and on the throttle as soon as possible? Which direction does the track run? Without actually driving the turn, giving an accurate idea as to how to get through there is tough. In the end, you should just try multiple lines and figure out what feels best and what is fastest. Sounds like a good chance to learn...try following some people through and using their line and then try your own line.

Course is running clockwise or anti?
From their website, clockwise.
It looks like Oak Tree at VIR, but slightly longer.
I don't know. I think my entry would be carrying speed into the turn, clipping the right side curbing, straight towards the outside, brake as necessary and right to where your tracked out.

It looks like Oak Tree at VIR, but slightly longer.
I don't know. I think my entry would be carrying speed into the turn, clipping the right side curbing, straight towards the outside, brake as necessary and right to where your tracked out.

I can tell you that getting to the curb on the first portion of Oak Tree isn't always a good idea. By taking a wider arc through the first turn (I stay about a car width from the inside curb), you end up with the car much better rotated for the entrance of the important second turn, the one that leads you onto the very long back straight. Of course, taking it this way means that you don't really get to straighten up totally for your braking, but it is faster.

I drove the North track last June with NASA. Turn 6 is sandwiched between two medium straights with the pre-straight coming off a pseudo-sweeper and the post-straight just a simple drag to a 90 deg left hander. Elevation is flat. Grip is good in the decleration zone into 6. I only spent two days there for a TT event, so my experience is limited and will defer to those who have spent more than one weekend there. For a reference point, I was lapping this track with my car somewhere between 1:15-1:16 with clean laps.

I approach 6 the same as your green line, but stay out a bit longer and wider to create a better approach angle to the second apex. This way you get a longer braking zone (so can start braking later) and your arch is less acute, so you can carry more speed into the second apex. But this is very much an HPDE line and usually is not possible in traffic. I found that during the TT in traffic many times I was diving into the inside of the braking zone at the frist apex to make a pass, so now I am way too far on the inside, forcing me into a position to use throttle off, or sometimes brake-induced, oversteer to get rotation at the second apex to get pointed in the right direction for the exit of 6. The exit of turn 6 can run out all too quickly if you get too hot through there.

Here is more of what I was thinking about, my artistic skillz are no match for yours, my friend:
http://members.cox.net/temp36/AutobahnTurn6.jpg

agreed that it depends on camber, traffic, and wet/dry conditions, but

I never really realized the similarity we have here... The guy that designed Gingerman also Desing A.C.C. and you can see some of the similarities in course design... turns 5&6 at G-man are quite similar to turn 6 at ACC... more obtuse entry turn and tighter exit turn - both tracks but these turns between a couple short straights.

http://www.gingermanraceway.com/images/mapfullcolor.jpg

The difference is that you are leading on to a longer straight at ACC than Gman....

My opinion would be you'd want to go late on to the straight... therefore get the car rotated before your second turn so you can get on the gas earlier...

Unlike Gman 5&6 - go early into five, straighten out, aim for the end of the concrete apron, left foot break/trail brake, rotate the car a bit and rifle out of six late & wide...

http://www.autobahncountryclub.net/images/track.jpg

The turn in question is in the NE corner of this map. As Brian said it's impossible to tell what you'd do without knowing the track surface, camber, elevation, etc. For that matter, Brian's car would take a different optimum line than mine would. Are there any videos out there?

I would try a bunch of lines of course. I think treating it like a carousel while taking a late late apex and getting right next to the curb at the apex might work well. I wonder if you take that exaggerated late turn in you might be using more track than you need to. I used to do that late turn in thing at a number of tracks (Sebring T17, Barber T2, RR T7/8) but I think a constant radius turn can work just as well or better.

I'm intrigued by Autobahn, never really heard of it before. It seems like a horsepower friendly track which is unlike Wilson's other efforts. I have friends in Chicago so I might make the trip to a NASA event there next year.

Are there any videos out there?
The offical site has laps of both north and south tracks for you to download and review. I also have some DV video that I shot when I was there earlier this summer, could probably rip a lap or two if there was enough interest for a second look at the North course.

I'm intrigued by Autobahn, never really heard of it before. It seems like a horsepower friendly track which is unlike Wilson's other efforts. I have friends in Chicago so I might make the trip to a NASA event there next year.

It is new this season, having had curbing problems last year that prevented it from opening on time. Very nice facilities, amazing track if you could ever be there for an event that ran combined North and South tracks (unlikely to occur often even for the paying members from what I hear) . . . .

been there a few times. on track it doesn't appear quite like that. Just use the 2nd curb as your apex point.

All Alan Wilson tracks try and get you to apex too early. If you apex too early, you'll push wide on the exit.

the 3, 4, 5 combo is very fun at autobahn north. Take it right, and you'll get to around 100 (depends on car) coming into 6.

watch the video on the autobahn web site to visulize 6 better.

Thanks for the input guys. this is fun.


the 3, 4, 5 combo is very fun at autobahn north. Take it right, and you'll get to around 100 (depends on car) coming into 6.


Yeah, i absolutely love those turns. they are very fast. I know I was into 4th gear before turn 6. Do you use the brakes at all going into turn 4?

My first time out there, turn 6 gave me the most problem. I saw it as one turn, and ended up almost having to pinch it at the end as exiting the first part like a traditional single turn and was not setup for the real apex. I started taking it a bit slower and eventually got better at it as the day went on. I think after making my artistic drawing, I could do even better.

That's similar to turn 2 at Laguna Seca except Laguna Seca runs counter clockwise. Most racers double apex because if you don't you'll get dive-bombed on the first apex.

That's similar to turn 2 at Laguna Seca except Laguna Seca runs counter clockwise. Most racers double apex because if you don't you'll get dive-bombed on the first apex.

Actually I don't think it's like T2 at LS at all. Bryan is correct, that without a lot more information about the topology, geography and geometry, it's a tough call.

But to take the Laguna T2 example, the double apex line is as much about defending your space, as it is about speed. Lighter cars, or cars that rotate quickly can take a tighter line, but lose exit speed because they have to delay throttle application. Heavier cars, or cars with grip (downforce) can take a slightly wider arc and get back on the gas sooner. The 'school' line is a very late single apex because it's safe and predictable, with loads of time to make corrections.