View Full Version : head gasket time...


K Funk
08-08-2005, 03:38 AM
dammit... I ran it all over today, and then in traffic it started runnin like crap and died. I pushed it to the side, waited a lil while, and got it runnin again.... but there was lots of white smoke out the tailpipe, from the valve cover, and around the headgasket.... I limped it further up the road, till it died again. There was a loud rattle from the engine, and thats worrying me...
I made a final effort to get it home, but it couldn't climb the hill. I coasted back to a parking lot. Luckily this guy showed up and helped me get the engine cooled down.
I'm not sure why it got so hot. Just a couple days ago I had filled the coolant all the way and made sure the water pump was pumping. The temp guage doesn't work though, and theres no burp tank.... so i guess it may have pee'd out all the coolant slowly, but that seems like a lot.
I hope theres nothing major wrong with the engine besides the gasket. I'll try to pick up a head gasket tomorrow morning, then pull the head tonight or tomorrow. Do you think itd be a good idea to have it planed? I may go ahead and do that....
It's a good thing I haven't sold the dodge yet.

74tii
08-08-2005, 04:12 AM
sucks man. :(

2002maniac
08-08-2005, 08:39 AM
definately have the head milled flat. Also have your shop pressure test it and replace the stem seals. That's too bad, but at least it's an 02! The head is really easy to pull.

02stu
08-08-2005, 11:23 AM
I would mill the head flat and inspect all the valves to make sure you didn't bend any by over heating them. Good luck, 02s have never been a fan of the heat.

K Funk
08-08-2005, 03:37 PM
OK, I checked on parts.
It's $20 for just the gasket, or $80 for the entire 'head gasket kit.' That includes the gaskets around the manifolds, some seals that look like they'd go around the valves, some o-rings (where they go?), etc.
I called one place and they said $220 and they'd take care of everything on the head in 4 working days. At another place they said $50 to plane it, and the rest would be extra.
I guess I gotta pull it off and see how bad it looks, then decide how much I need to do.
Should I pull the intake manifold and all that stuff, or only the carb? I've changed head gaskets before in other cars, but never had anything major done to the head. I'm still not sure if I have stock headers or not. Is there some kind of exhaust manifold on it in stock form? I've got headers that just bolt straight up to the head. It looks like I've got to unjust bolt them from the head. Hopefully those bolts come off easy.

2002maniac
08-08-2005, 07:49 PM
it is easiest IMO to remove the head with the manifolds attatched and then remove them afterwards. The lower intake manifold nuts can be awkward to reach with the head installed. Get the whole head seal kit. it will come with intake/exhaust gaskets, stem seals (usually), timing cover gasket, and more.

K Funk
08-08-2005, 08:07 PM
Yeah, it looks like the full kit is the way to go. Yep, hard to reach bolts is a good enough reason to wait on the intake manifold. Exhaust headers will have to come off first, though. Bolts are easy to see, and hopefully they come off easy.
I may be financially limited on getting the shop to do a full valve job. I'll probably have to go with just the planing. Can I change any of the stem seals myself? My repair manual says you have to use some kinda strange tool for popping out the valve spring. It also says it needs to be hot to put in new valve guides. Are the stem seals easier than that? Am I going to need a special tool?
Also, maybe I should just get a wire brush drill bit, and clean things up myself.

K Funk
08-09-2005, 06:18 AM
Here's a selection of pictures of the head, along with the dead rat I pulled out of the radiator:
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~kfunk/head/

The head gasket actually looked ok, but there had been smoke pouring out the sides of the gasket itself, out the tailpipe, out the valve cover....
I actually think the problem is that a previous owner used anti-seize on the head bolts, and the head bolts backed out. The head bolt threads were completely covered in gunk, and it was a real pain getting them out.
I'm not sure if I should clean them up and re-use them, or buy new. I'll check on the price of new ones tomorrow....

K Funk
08-09-2005, 06:35 PM
Uhhh, do I need a thicker headgasket once the head gets milled? or can it handle it OK?

my2002tii
08-09-2005, 07:09 PM
The head gasket actually looked ok, but there had been smoke pouring out the sides of the gasket itself, out the tailpipe, out the valve cover....
I actually think the problem is that a previous owner used anti-seize on the head bolts, and the head bolts backed out. The head bolt threads were completely covered in gunk, and it was a real pain getting them out.
I'm not sure if I should clean them up and re-use them, or buy new. I'll check on the price of new ones tomorrow....

My advice, take it or leave it!

The head will never sustain torque values correctly by reusing the bolts.

Spend $25 for all new head bolts and toss these- but save these special washers and reuse them.

You must clean all the crud out of the head bolt holes or else the old oil will give you problems with proper torque also. You can buy some brake solvent for $2 a can and spray it down into each hole and then use a block cleaning brush (available where you get brake solvent) and get all that junk out.

You don't need a thicker head gasket. The few 1000ths that come off your head won't matter.. you might see a bit of better performance due to the compression improvement.

http://www2.hawaii.edu/~kfunk/head/DSC01192.JPG

K Funk
08-09-2005, 08:06 PM
OK, it'll take me an extra day to get the bolts ordered in, though. Any ideas on how many times these bolts can be stretched, and if its really much of a risk? Or, how about if I put it together with these ones, then just pull the valve cover and change the headbolts later (without removing everything again)?
I just like getting things done quick... plus theres an autocross on sunday. :embarrasm

my2002tii
08-09-2005, 10:55 PM
ANSWER:
They can only be stretched once.

Would you rather have a good solid engine again for Sunday or look like a fool when it blows up?

Piece of mind Man... or not..

K Funk
08-10-2005, 03:12 AM
Here are some pics of the block, after a light cleaning:

http://www2.hawaii.edu/~kfunk/head/DSC01198.JPG
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~kfunk/head/DSC01199.JPG
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~kfunk/head/DSC01200.JPG

So are those stock headers or not?

Everything look OK? I was a lil worried about the gap on the top right of the 2 and 3 piston, but I couldn't push a 0.003" feeler guage down the gap, so I suppose its not that bad. :confused

I went ahead and cleaned out the carb and intake manifold tonight, and they cleaned up very well. I've got the head gasket kit ready to put things together (where do the o-rings go?). Tomorrow morning I'll pick up the head from the shop.
So I should be able to get a small loan from the bank to pay for food and such, and go ahead and order the bolts. Then tomorrow night I'll piece all the stuff together, but not torque it down yet. I really need to get the intake, radiator, and all the stuff out of my kitchen before my roommate comes back. Then Thursday night I'll put the head bolts on finally, and fire it on up. :buttrock

Alpine003
08-10-2005, 01:12 PM
Those definitely aren't stock headers and looks like they might've done you a favor and plugged up the EGR system when they installed the headers.

K Funk
08-10-2005, 05:18 PM
OK, well I probably gotta run FSP class in that case. :shifty
No biggie.

I got the head back today. I don't understand the local language completely (hawaiian pidgin), but I think the guy said it was really concave between the cylinders. That'd explain a lot of the smoke and other troubles.

But now for the next discovery while cleaning up the intake last night. I've got a Weber carb I know, and I finally measured it and so it looks like its a 32/36 sequential carb. The problem is that I've got a two-hole intake, and I measured both of them as around 33 mm diameter. So, I had a 36 mm carb barrel goin into a 33 mm hole. :eyecrazy
That'd explain why the gasket between the intake and carb was shot, and there had been leakage down onto the top of the intake manifold.
So, I can't find an easy way around it. I've gotta get a Dremel or drill and grind the hole out bigger. I may even 'hog' it if the metal cuts easy.
This site shows the details on this system:
http://www.bmw2002faq.com/engine_and_drivetrain/downdrafts.html

Ah well, I'll do that tonight if i can get the tools, and put off the reassembly another day.
On a better note, this car should be badass once I get the intake opened up. :buttrock

vtbimmer
08-10-2005, 09:05 PM
Those look like Headercraft headers.

K Funk
08-11-2005, 03:34 PM
How hard is it to replace the stem seals yourself?

I couldn't afford to have the shop do it, but I have the new stem seals sitting in the package, plus an extra day while I wait on the new neadbolts to arrive.
In my repair manual it shows using a special tool. Can you get a tool like that at Sears for relatively cheap?
Do you think brake cleaner or WD-40 would harm the seals that are on it? I sprayed some brake cleaner around the chambers, so some may have seeped down in.. :embarrasm

K Funk
08-11-2005, 03:45 PM
OK, so it looks like i need something like this:
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail.aspx?categorycode=3491&mfrcode=PBI&mfrpartnumber=648432

So, just take off the rocker arm, compress the spring, remove valve, pull the seal, lightly clean valve with dremel, put in new seal, and I'm done?

Heck, might as well do that tonight and tomorrow night, then reassemble things Saturday. I'll probably skip the autocross, since there'll be no time to test the car enough. Ah well, better off having new valve seals.

Edit: Oh wait... getting rocker arm out of the way isn't going to be easy. How do I move it, or do I need to move it?

Looking at this pic:
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~kfunk/head/DSC01189.JPG
Can I just slide it out of the way against that spring that appears loose? Maybe I'd have to compress the spring a little bit to get it to slide..