First post on this site so I hope this is appropriate for this forum. Picked up an 01 M3 about 4 months ago for the summer. The first inspection on the car was just completed about 2 weeks ago at the stealership. I love putting the car into high speeds when "legal". For the 3rd time now I will slow from 150's or 160's and loose almost all braking capacity as well as the power steering becomes useless. Are the brakes on the M3 poor or should I be changing the brake fluid to something better like super blue? I am also told that the speed govern. should be 155. I have had the car to a little over 170. Is this an indication that the car may have had a chip programming? Absolutly love the M3 over my 911 but get very concerned about the brakes. Should I keep it or move back to a 911?

Thanx all! :)

Brakes, you don't need no stinking brakes.

Change the pads and the brake fluid. That should take care of the situation. More than likely the brade fluid is boiling and the pads are getting super cooked at those speeds.

If you are planning on travelling those speeds excessively, then you'll want a much more aggressive pad or even think about upgrading the brake system. The factory setup, with fluids, pads and rotors is not meant to give you more than one stop from those high speeds.

It also may be braking techniques guys ... a lot of people 'think' they are braking fairly hard. My student this past weekend thought his brakes were not that good b/c he was smoking them at all four corners.

I took him for a ride in my car (using brake pads we grabbed from pep boys the day before) ... and I generated much more g-forces in stopping ... and I experienced brake fade to an extent ... but, not that greatly. I told him to get firmly; but, quickly on the brakes ... don't ride them. A lot of people ride them they push down hard but then keep the brakes applied with less pressure. That will cook them. Go down hard and smooth -- but, get off smoothly as well. That just takes practice and judgment on braking.

If a person is doing 150-40 mph stops ... and you drive for a minute or so -- brakes should have cooled down a lot in that time. Only when you are hammering them repeatedly every 10 seconds would it start becoming a problem. JMHO ... I could be wrong; but, I've owned 3 of these cars and one of them I hammered the brakes at the track from 150-20 mph ... and I didn't experience significicant brake fade or boiling fluid. There was brake fade -- but, not enough to warrant concern. I just used ATE ... and not even motul600

Yeah, I think the fluid is the weak point as I hear that the OE fluid has a much lower dry/wet boiling point than the ATE super blue. (Well assuming that he's braking properly).

Not sure about the brakes but I talked with a friend who tried to hit the speed limiter in his 02 M3. The said he passed 175. But he talks alot so take that with a grain of salt. I wonder if the speed limiter actually works?

Uhm about the brakes I got the axxis metal masters from turnermotorsports.com great product. WAAAAAAAAAAAY less brake dust and brake considerably better. I brought it down from 150 without downshifting or anything and it came down pretty smooth.

The E46 M3 came from the factory with weak brakes that frequently warp at HPDEs. The two-piece floating euro rotors are much better. If you must use the stock rotors, at least upgrade the pads and put in some high temp fluid like Motul 600 or ATE super blue.

I always brake hard and quickly...no riding of the brakes for me. Especially in the mountains where I would rather keep the brakes as cool as possible for before the next turn if I have to brake. I definitly am going to ditch the OE fluid this weekend for the super blue.

EDIT:

Any place out there that has brake kits for the car? With my VW i bought a brake kit with porsche 4 piston cals and true floats. Probably would look for the similar setup with better cals, rotors, steel braid lines.

Namely brake upgrade companies...

Brembo
Stoptech
AP Racing
UUC (my personal choice)

I roasted my brakes doing 170+ with four people in the car...

:eek3 :banghead:

like others said, brake smoothly and firmly, use the brakes for a short period of time, don't ride them. I doubt you need different pads or fluid for a single high-speed stop.

I thought the factory fill was ATE Typ 200???

(Not that I care, I'm running Castrol SRF and Hawk HP Plus)

Michael.

This is indicative of a larger problem, not brake fade.

Even at 150mph+, unless you are doing repeated braking the behavior of the brake should not change nor should it affect powersteering. I think the ABS system is f**ked up, causing the pads to bind and lock-up the rotors thus locking out the ability to steering. Nothing to do with fade, the rotors and pads are working fine?

Only other explanation I have, is lack of skills in modulating the brakes. At 150MPH, you go clamp down on the brakes and you will immediately activate the ABS system. You need to really EASE into the brakes (but ease it in quickly) instead of stomping on the brakes, otherwise a small amount of braking will upset the car enough to get the system all confused, and it'll pump the pedals to try to slow the car down eventhough a better braking technique would have allowed you to slow down much quicker. Learn threshold braking and ABS won't be futzing with you at 150mph.

I don't think this guy takes his M3 to the track guys.

Yeah, I think the fluid is the weak point as I hear that the OE fluid has a much lower dry/wet boiling point than the ATE super blue. (Well assuming that he's braking properly).

That doesn't make any sense. ATE Super Blue is the same type of fluid that comes in stock just in a blue color.

Motul has a MUCH higher boiling point but it costs a lot more.

That doesn't make any sense. ATE Super Blue is the same type of fluid that comes in stock just in a blue color.

Motul has a MUCH higher boiling point but it costs a lot more.

I was told differently... the stock fluid is not ATE Super Blue/Gold.

I was told differently... the stock fluid is not ATE Super Blue/Gold.

Wierd.. I wonder what they are using then? On my M Coupe its ATE Gold and I'd heard from various people that the fluid is the same.

I recntly took mine up to 165-70 and had no problem slowing it over a couple of runs. My car's brakes are completely stock. If the car passed inspection II with no problem I'd suspect (no offense) operator error.

Wierd.. I wonder what they are using then? On my M Coupe its ATE Gold and I'd heard from various people that the fluid is the same.

Ate Super Blue is the same as Typ 200 (gold-colored).

Ate Gold might be a different fluid altogether that is also gold-colored.

Re the 155 limiter- all US cars read high on the speedometer- anywhere from 5-15%- not sure what the M3s are...
But reading 175 when you're actually going 155 is only an 11% difference-
That said, the error isn't typically more then 10% high, so I would expect to see the limiter kick in when the speedo shows 168 or so...

Better brakes or ban.

yes sounds like you ride them, could be wrong, but my 328 with bremo rotors slotted up front and mintex pads experiences no fadding, although i only ever hit my brakes hard from 120-130, if i go above that, i make sure i have no one on the freeway so i can just coast down... wont take it over 130 if theres any amount of people on the road at all.

i also do alot of canyon racing and heavy braking goes along with that... just work on a technique to keep the brakes cool...
like was said above, thats very smart.

Brake fade? Get BBK's :devil: