Here's the deal. You have $20k to spend on a car. The options are an e36 M3 or a Porsche 911.
Obviously, with only $20k, your Porsche options are going to be limited to something around a 1990 or 91 C2 or C4.
Please vote for one and list any advantages associated with each selection. Here's our preliminary list of advantages.

e36 M3 Advantages
-- less maintenance (b/c it's a newer car)
-- cheaper to mod
-- accommodates four people comfortably

911 Advantages
-- less depreciation
-- prestige factor of the P car
-- potential for all-wheel drive

you are on a BMW message board, remember?

E36 M3. :wave

M3 does NOT accommodate 4 people comfortably. Noes. Not even close. You cant really call that a back seat.

But alas, M3 wins. I love P cars, but only new ones.

All depends on what you are looking to do.

The M3 with lower mileage would make a better daily driver. The P car would make it easier to pick up girls.

The M3 would be cheaper to turn into a race car, full out I think the 911 would be a better club racing car - cause there are rumors of a 911 series at MMP next year floating around.

With a budget of 20K I'd buy this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1985-911-CARRERA-COUPE-GRAND-PRIX-WHITE_W0QQitemZ4564101704QQcategoryZ10156QQrdZ1QQc mdZViewItem

But I'd build a club racing car out of it.

The P car would make it easier to pick up girls.


This remind me of my favorite pick-up line, "You're eyes are the same color as my Porsche."

you are on a BMW message board, remember?

E36 M3. :wave

I'm handicapping the poll 2:1 to take that into account.

I do not believe that a decent early 964 can be purchased for $20k or less.

what ya gona use it for?

When we were looking I kinda thought about getting a e36 m3, but I like the e46 inside soooooo much better, plus I like the body better. But obviously thats just persional prefrence. Anyway you could get a nice e46 and decent set of mods for 20k

Ha! Your eyes are the same color as my Porsche ... red.

Even though I own a pcar I voted for the M. I think that you could get a much nicer M for $20k. I'm with brahtw8, a c4 964 will probably be >$20k. I can't say much about maintenance on an M but there are a lot of people in Utah who can help or make recommendations. Who would you have work on your pcar? After spending more than 12 hours changing the ignition wires on mine this past weekend I would say it is not a DIY car unless you are very patient (stubborn).

limited to just 911's? I would love to get a clean modded 951. I actually saw one for sale a little while ago for about 20k. It had an upgraded T4 turbo and track suspension. I was seriously considering selling my car for it.

what ya gona use it for?



Daily Driver.

Daily Driver.

M3 then. No contest

Correct, 20K gets you a nice daily driver E36 M3. Don't think you can get a P car for that price you'd want to daily drive.

E46 + suspension and power mods <20k

= More Funner then e36 m3 and cheaper insurance.

My 99 328i was 25K with tax + tags, 50K miles on it 2 years ago (only 60 now).

Full exhaust, suspension, twin screw, wheels, etc etc etc etc etc etc was another 25.

Power wise it almost hangs with stockish E36 Ms (no TS yet of course), Interior I like much better, Makr said it handles better then his M with suspension.

For you Mr. Chas or your Mr. Chase?

Either way, M3 fo sho.

For Me. But I would also probly take it to autox and stuff.

Power wise it almost hangs with stockish E36 Ms (no TS yet of course), Interior I like much better, Makr said it handles better then his M with suspension.

A. anything handles bettar than makrs M3.

B. ask any racer. and REAL racer, its not weather you win by and inch or a mile

WINNING'S WINNING.

http://www.net-monster.com/fastandthefurious_1.jpg

For Me. But I would also probly take it to autox and stuff.

Go M3. Easier / cheaper to mod.

A. anything handles bettar than makrs M3.

B. ask any racer. and REAL racer, its not weather you win by and inch or a mile

WINNING'S WINNING.

http://www.net-monster.com/fastandthefurious_1.jpg

A. Don't know, never driven it. Have taken Josh's stock Black M3/4 out back to back with mine. Car felt much lighter but less solid, a touch more pick up at lower rpms, descovered how spoiled I am with all my leather and wood.

B. Yes, thus boost will be added.

e46 plus mods for under $20k. What would that be, a 328, a la Geoff?

I wish ...

18K gets you a 99/00 E46 328i with 75K miles, 22ish for something under 50K miles.

Mods, well that is an adventure all to it's self.

Chas

My 99 328i =13k 90k miles only problem was suspension bushings (geoffs had same problem) ~1500-3k on suspension, wheels buy geoffs for less then 1k= power mods well.....?

I got mine off autotrader and there was another one just like it but auto (exactly like geofs silver and everything) that you could probably get for close to the same money.

A. anything handles bettar than makrs M3.





Still having a difficult time dealing with having had your ass handed to you?

Chas

My 99 328i =13k 90k miles only problem was suspension bushings (geoffs had same problem) ~1500-3k on suspension, wheels buy geoffs for less then 1k= power mods well.....?

I got mine off autotrader and there was another one just like it but auto (exactly like geofs silver and everything) that you could probably get for close to the same money.


ah yes, the the aforementioned E46 3ers are missing that X factor,... the M designation.

You can mod it all you want, it still wont be an M car. Period.
Us E36 guys are pretty tight knit. You'll love it once you get it.
What did you think about my car when you drove it?
pretty silky eh?

Yeah I dont think I would want an e46 328i I would rather have an M3. Geoff said his car, with all the mods, is about at an m3. Why waste the money that it takes to mod it that far when you can just get an m3.

I just checked the poll results -- the old Porsche is not doing well and will soon be conceding.

the only one who voted for teh p-car was geoff but now he is going back on his vote.

Yeah I dont think I would want an e46 328i I would rather have an M3. Geoff said his car, with all the mods, is about at an m3. Why waste the money that it takes to mod it that far when you can just get an m3.

This is true. But we chose the E46 because it is a daily driver and we wanted a nicer interior. (Sorry guys, I still love my E36, but it's true...) Plus there is the cost of maintenance and insurance to throw in there...

If we didn't already have a plethora of vehicles to mod and make fast, we might have gone the M3 route, but as it is, I am very happy with the 328.

You would seriously depreciate the porsche making it your daily driver mileage-wise.... with high miles it would be "one of few".

Putting tons of miles on a e36 m3 would make it..."one of many" when you're ready to sell.

Go M3.

But im a young kid having the luxery interior and all that just doesnt call all that much to me.

But im a young kid having the luxery interior and all that just doesnt call all that much to me.

Then to play devil's advocate...

As a 'young kid' do you NEED an M3? Wouldn't something that is very reliable and cheap to insure be more important?

Not that I wouldn't have jumped at the chance to have one at that age, but looking back, I am glad I didn't have a very nice car during high school. Not only does it make me appreciate this much more, but my POS 1985 Cutlass Ciera got bumped into many many times in the HS parking lot...

... Not that I wouldn't have jumped at the chance to have one at that age, but looking back, I am glad I didn't have a very nice car during high school. Not only does it make me appreciate this much more, but my POS 1985 Cutlass Ciera got bumped into many many times in the HS parking lot...

I think it is a law that young kids drive a POS for a first car. At least that is what my father told me?

I just checked the poll results -- the old Porsche is not doing well and will soon be conceding.

Without the $20k limit the results may have been different . . .

Trust me I'm not ever parking anything in the hs parking lot.

ah yes, the the aforementioned E46 3ers are missing that X factor,... the M designation.

You can mod it all you want, it still wont be an M car. Period.
Us E36 guys are pretty tight knit. You'll love it once you get it.
What did you think about my car when you drove it?
pretty silky eh?

Bah, if the M badge meant so much you would not be modding it.

I'm betting that E46 328i + mods (including TS) hands E46 M3 it's ass. All for not much more then new M3 would have cost + I have 4 doors.

Not a lot of power options with out spending huge money on the E46 M3 and even then I bet you hurt daily driving ablility. All the M cars have going for them is they are better stock. I want the ultimate driving machine for my needs, don't care what the badge says.

Bah, if the M badge meant so much you would not be modding it.

I'm betting that E46 328i + mods (including TS) hands E46 M3 it's ass. All for not much more then new M3 would have cost + I have 4 doors.

Not a lot of power options with out spending huge money on the E46 M3 and even then I bet you hurt daily driving ablility. All the M cars have going for them is they are better stock. I want the ultimate driving machine for my needs, don't care what the badge says.

Good Argument

Bah, if the M badge meant so much you would not be modding it.

I'm betting that E46 328i + mods (including TS) hands E46 M3 it's ass. All for not much more then new M3 would have cost + I have 4 doors.

Not a lot of power options with out spending huge money on the E46 M3 and even then I bet you hurt daily driving ablility. All the M cars have going for them is they are better stock. I want the ultimate driving machine for my needs, don't care what the badge says.

Poor argument.

Modding it doesnt change what it started from, a superior, enthusiast's car.
Building on a better base... who can argue with that.

You didnt address the x factor. There is still something special about an M car, modded or not. BMW Motorsport put its hands on it and blessed it. Cant say that about any E46 328, twinscrewed or not.

Dinan & Eurosport did the blessing.

E46 M3 is built on the same frame as all the other E46s.

It comes stock with more power, better brakes, LSD rear, better shocks/springs/bars, wider tires/ more rubber.

Most M3s put 290hp or so to the wheels, with boost I should be making 350ish.

All the other parts I've already upgraded to aftermarket that perform better then stock M3 parts.

The X factor is it has a different badge, larger price tag, and does not have 4 doors.

E46 M3 is built on the same frame as all the other E46s.

It comes stock with more power, better brakes, LSD rear, better shocks/springs/bars, wider tires/ more rubber.

Most M3s put 290hp or so to the wheels, with boost I should be making 350ish.

All the other parts I've already upgraded to aftermarket that perform better then stock M3 parts.

The X factor is it has a different badge, larger price tag, and does not have 4 doors.

your are correct that you your car will perform better than a stock E36 and E46 M car once you have the supercharger that your are talking about (which happens to not even be in production yet and after you have spent more than the actual value of your car in moddifications)...

What what I am staying is that a stock E36 M3 is > a stock E46 three series for an enthusiast like Chas or Chase, who is interested in looks, styling, speed, heritage, and prestige. The budget is $20K, remember.., so I dont know where all this wacky Twin Screw talk came in.... :rolleyes

so, if capitan vessel can chime in here....

E36 M3 gets owned by stock E46 M3.

E36 M3 owns E46 non-M.

E46 non-M w/supercharger owns stock M3 and E46 M3.

So, if you compare apples to apples,

Wouldn't you own all and everything if you supercharged a E46 M3?

I love my DINAN badged vessal to the point that caress it nightly. But, one day, I will own a "M" 5. Why, becuase it rocks my face right off this planet.

so, if capitan vessel can chime in here....

E36 M3 gets owned by stock E46 M3.

E36 M3 owns E46 non-M.

E46 non-M w/supercharger owns stock M3 and E46 M3.

So, if you compare apples to apples,

Wouldn't you own all and everything if you supercharged a E46 M3?

I love my DINAN badged vessal to the point that caress it nightly. But, one day, I will own a "M" 5. Why, becuase it rocks my face right off this planet.


Johnny can you explain why you would not be satisfied with just the DINAN 540? what so special about the M5? huh? huh?
Your current car could be brought up to power (or more) with some forced induction...

What is it, if not the X factor.

Yes I agree, stock E36 M3 is the way to go ... if the enthusiast plans on leaving it stock.

Stock goes out the window when you start to mod. I actually think the E46 M3 is worse starting place mod wise then a std 3 series. For less money you can build more power on a non M car. E46 M3 is kind of maxed out with out adding boost, and compession is to high to make that work well.

Yes I agree, stock E36 M3 is the way to go ... if the enthusiast plans on leaving it stock.

Stock goes out the window when you start to mod. I actually think the E46 M3 is worse starting place mod wise then a std 3 series. For less money you can build more power on a non M car. E46 M3 is kind of maxed out with out adding boost, and compession is to high to make that work well.

Agreed.
FI notwithstanding.

(p.s. this is a great way to boost Post Count, chatting with an extremely knowledgeable enthusiast :alright )

i justed farted in my cubicle and thought I would share that with you all.

Is that forced exhaustion?

i justed farted in my cubicle and thought I would share that with you all.

Is that forced exhaustion?

you ought to spool it up a few times... then realy force it.
(you waste gate, you)

pffffft.

If we commited to supercharging the car with maybe some suspension mods what would the car be. (just IF...)

All i know right this moment is that this picture rocks me upside down and inside out like the Pointer Sisters.

http://www.users.qwest.net/~rrenaldi20/MPRESIV/Meet_24Jul2005_12_resize.JPG

If we commited to supercharging the car with maybe some suspension mods what would the car be. (just IF...)

If you are looking for something to mod down the road, and don't care about things like upgraded interior etc. the E36 M3 is still the way to go.

The non M E46 I think can be a better car, but mods are also more expensive.

Personally I think the one that would be really cool would be the 330Xi SMG with twin screw. But ... I don't think you could get SMG on a AWD 3 series (might have only been on the RWD versions) and of course there is no E46 TS as of today.

If you are looking for something to mod down the road, and don't care about things like upgraded interior etc. the E36 M3 is still the way to go.

The non M E46 I think can be a better car, but mods are also more expensive.

Personally I think the one that would be really cool would be the 330Xi SMG with twin screw. But ... I don't think you could get SMG on a AWD 3 series (might have only been on the RWD versions) and of course there is no E46 TS as of today.

personally I think your "optionless" roadster with SMG and sick sussy is your best idea to date!!!! :buttrock

Buying an e36 m3 and keeping it stock is a fantasy in this crowd. It would be like hanging out with a bunch of heroin addicts and staying clean.

Sadly - having a hard time finding a Z4 with SMG, let alone one that is not fully loaded.

your are correct that you your car will perform better than a stock E36 and E46 M car once you have the supercharger that your are talking about (which happens to not even be in production yet and after you have spent more than the actual value of your car in moddifications)...




Its not in production? Fuck that blows.



Just got back from running Blonders car on the dyno. 360 hp and a torqe curve that hits at 2600 and just flatlines. It was also very fat, 11:1, so with a little JC majic. :dunno


I think Geoffs car will be a M3 eater all day.

That blue 540 Johnny posted is HAWT. Can't help but think about how cool it would be to get a clean 540 and mod it to the max (all in the name of safety, as it would be Marie's daily driver).

Buying an e36 m3 and keeping it stock is a fantasy in this crowd. It would be like hanging out with a bunch of heroin addicts and staying clean.

So just look at what you want long term and go from there. Fully balls out modded E36 M3 or non M E46.

E36 will be cheaper, E46 long term I think will turn out nicer.

Its not in production? Fuck that blows.



Just got back from running Blonders car on the dyno. 360 hp and a torqe curve that hits at 2600 and just flatlines. It was also very fat, 11:1, so with a little JC majic. :dunno


I think Geoffs car will be a M3 eater all day.

I will be selling rides to M owners very soon. :buttrock

The nice thing about the e36 is all of the aftermarket that the e46 hasnt fully developed.

That blue 540 Johnny posted is HAWT. Can't help but think about how cool it would be to get a clean 540 and mod it to the max (all in the name of safety, as it would be Marie's daily driver).


ummm yeah.... chas, that blue car IS an ///M5.. just thought I'd point that out.

The nice thing about the e36 is all of the aftermarket that the e46 hasnt fully developed.

True, but it is coming, and as time passes prices might come down. There has never been a part I wanted that was not out there, just the options were small and the price high.

Pretty much one brand of header, diffs are not off the shelf, etc. etc. Won't be the small block market but only issue i've had is the cost.

Trust me I'm not ever parking anything in the hs parking lot.

I always parked in Faculty Parking...

Cam'ron

ivoted pcar because then theres no chance you'll get a dakar m3

The aftermarket for the E36 M3 is better than the E46. They changed things in the E46 that will always make performance parts more expensive and harder to find. The aftermarket for BMW's is going to get smaller and smaller if BMW keeps heading in the same direction. Eventually there may be a point where the only things we can change are suspension and aesthetics. We won't be able to touch the computer or engine/exhaust. The future is not bright for the aftermarket engine performance companies.

Geoff, a TS E36 M3 will still beat your car all day long.

Johnny, you can't TS an E46 M3. It will blow up. Even AA has stated this in their ads with the rocket ship. That rocket ship is the Challenger. M3 + AAboost = challenger (boom). :devillook (I'm just playing. I mean no disrespect to AA)

I don't mind the E46 right now. It's just that the aftermarket is too small for it and the S54 is too strung out. I will skip the E46 and go straight to the E90.

There are so many trick little parts and so much potential in the E36 it is hard to look past it at an E46 (be it a 3xx or M3).

I don't care about picking up chicks in a nice car. If they like me for the car, I don't want anything to do with them anyway.

I am too hard on my cars as well. If something happens to my 328 I am still ok. It's just a car afterall. If something happened to a car I am up to my nose in, I may have to be commited after a short time. Keep it cheap and keep it fun. You shouldn't be buying another worry. It's supposed to be a toy.


I will vote E36 all day long.

One last tip: don't spend more than $17k on it. There are plenty of clean E36 M3's out there. You shouldn't have to spend that much. It is afterall an E36. It's 13 years old. Buy it cheap, mod it with the leftovers, beat on it for a few years and sell it for something else.

ummm yeah.... chas, that blue car IS an ///M5.. just thought I'd point that out.

I couldn't see the gills (the sun was in my eyes), and I didn't notice the mirror. What else should I have been looking for?

I couldn't see the gills (the sun was in my eyes), and I didn't notice the mirror. What else should I have been looking for?

side mirrors, rear view mirror, rear boot lip spolier, shape of the seats.

you are on a BMW message board, remember?

E36 M3. :wave

I got to thinking about Molloy's comments and decided that the only way to get really fair evaluation was to post the same poll on the Porsche forum. I'm not going to tell you where because I don't want to incite an inter-forum rumble, but I will share their posts if you care to read.
FYI: As of this post, the votes on the porsche forum are 17 in favor of the Porsche and only 3 for the M3. The comments, however, appear to be more in favor of the M3.

you can pick up and E36 M3 from anywhere between 10-15K and spend the remainder on a supercharger kit from VF Engineering bringing it up to a good 330-340hp giving it enough oomph to put a 993TT in an embarassing spot, plus its a far more reliable car while a porsche his much more finicy and will cost more to maintain,

does anyone even offer a 3.2 carrera, 964 supercharger kit anymore?

The 964 AWD wasn't a very good system and was heavy.

I have worked on, driven and blown/modded more E36 M3's than probably anyone on this site, and this round my nod goes to the BMW. for reliability/bang for the buck.


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An adv. (or maybe a dis-adv.) is the driving dynamics or a heavy rear on the 911. No BMW can do that.

You can mod. an earlier 911 too. But it will never carry 4 adults. The M3 will. And it has more dealers for when you break down on a road trip.

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Yeah, really depends on what you want to use the car for.

The E36 M3 is a good daily driver car. But I've always thought of it as an "M-lite" M car. It has a 240 hp "US only" engine, while the ROW got the "real" M engine. It has the same body as the regular E36, with only different bumpers and side valences (not that there is anything wrong with the E36 body - it's a beautiful coupe).

I've spent a lot of time in an E36 M3, it's a good car.

But it lacks the "specialness" of the earlier, and later M3s, IMO.

The E30 M3 is a supercool car, and a real "M." Just about every part on the E30 M is M specific (including the windshield, rear window, body flares, trunk lid, etc. etc. etc.) It had the wild body that was so "out there" for the conservative BMW of the 80s. It has a true, high revving, race-bred 4 cylinder. It was a true "homologation special," which always makes a car unique.

The current E46 M3, well, 333 hp is always special! With the more aggressive flares and bumpers on it, it is a beautiful, mean looking coupe.

Again, though, the E36 M is a great car. IMO, it is one of the most aesthetically well balanced and beautiful looking coupes of the last 25 years. For a daily driver, commuter, traffic, needs AC, needs to occasionally carry 4 people car, it is a good choice. Probably better than a $20K 80s 911 for that use for most people.

For a weekend fun car, occasional track car, etc., I'd take the 911.

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one of each...
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buy a 911 SC for 10 grand and then:

$2,500 into Weber 40 IDF Carbs including optimized A/F tuning.

$500 Bilstein shocks

$400 Sway bars

$400 Autopower Roll Bar

$800 Sparco Evo's

$350 930S steering wheel

$2200 GHL headers and muffler

$200 dyno time

$400 for parts while I do valve adjustments on it


= approx. 200 RWHP 911 SC with enough money left over to still buy my date a lobster dinner...


......or a really expensive hot hooker.

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Have you driven either car? It's all in the driving dynamics of the two. They are very, very different.

The front engine, rear drive, 50:50 weighting of the M3 gives it that wonderfully balanced polar moment right under your seat, with one leg forward and the other back to toss it around with grace and predictable ease. Think (really powerful) figure skater. Complete control and no surprises.

The rear engine, rear drive of the 911 pushes you out of every corner and feels as though it just wants to push more and more and more! Just remember to set up the suspension with a tap on the brakes as you enter the corner, and DON'T LIFT THE THROTTLE! Think hockey player.

Okay, those are Canadian references ... let's see if I can put it into American context. M3 = Michael Jordan. 911 = Charles Barkley.

Which is going to be more fun for you? For what it's worth, I've driven all manner of configurations (front/rear, front/front, 4WD, mid/rear and now rear/rear), and I cannot imagine going back to anything else! I simply love the feeling of the acceleration and handling of the 911. Drive one and decide.
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There's an SC on the Pelican classified board with a 3.6 in it. Its asking price is 18.5K.

An M3 is a daily driver. A 911 can be one, but it's simultaneously much more trouble (no back seats, lots of quirks) and much more cool. An M3 is a good-looking car, but even in coupe form it looks like an ordinary, nice, utilitarian sedan. A (pre-996) 911 looks like something else -- a performance car -- or even to the untrained eye: something much cooler than a car.

The 911 is more fun on a track, in my (admittedly-biased) opinion. The M3 is much more forgiving, and will make you think you're a better driver right out of the gate. I don't know how each performs in autocrossing, since I've never done that. My guess would be that each would be pretty good.

Both are really exceptionally good cars. If I were M3 shopping, I'd probably look at either a quirky, retro E30 or the more blunt and impressive E46. The E36 strikes me as just a little bit 'neither-nor,' compared to what came before and after it.

All of this is personal opinion, of course, but in my mind an M3 is a (very capable) conformist's car, and a 911 is a (very capable) non-conformist's car.
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Hee hee,

Obviously I am in the wrong forum here, but I will post my opinion!!

I own a 1997 M3 4 door sedan. My dear brother, who pointed me to this thread, owns a 1986 911 Targa. I have driven both cars (perhaps that is obvious), and the two cars, in some sense defy comparison. They are completely different beasts IMHO. The question people asked of "how are you going to use the car" is the primary question, and the other is what type of FEEL do you want out of the car. The M3 is unquestionably the better "all around" car. In my case, I have a bunch of kids, and the car has to do daily driving duty for me. The balance, brakes, and handling of the car, bone stock, are brillant. Perhaps not as involving as the Porsche, but brilliant anyway. The engine is NOT the euro engine, but if you think the engine is not up to the task, you have probably not spent much time in an E36 M3. That being said, Mo Powa is always helpful, so I developed a twin-screw supercharger kit for my car. Now, it has the power to go with the rest of the package! A few minor upgrades to brakes and suspension, and a few tweaks, and I will end up with a car that has 350+ rwhp, brakes and suspension to match, can outperform the vast majority of "sports cars" out there, but still has 4 doors, seats 5, and my wife can drive it to the grocery store without attracting too much attention (unless she wants to)! All for less than $25k including the modifications.

This question is a lot like the "turbo vs supercharger" wars. Depends on what you want it to FEEL like!

When I drove my brother's 911, I was amazed at how "involving" the car is. It had an edgy "feel" to it, that, IMHO again would make a WONDERFUL weekend, auto-x, and track car. However, at least with the 1986 vintage, was probably not a car I would want to drive on a daily basis as a commuter. Perhaps the newer models are a bit different, but that is my assessment.

Flame away!!!

Buying an e36 m3 and keeping it stock is a fantasy in this crowd. It would be like hanging out with a bunch of heroin addicts and staying clean.

This is pretty much reason #1 we went with the E46

As long as we can keep our distance from Geoff, we should be fine :stickoutt

Is the E36 M3 the only M that did not have dual exhaust or individual throttle bodies?

E36 M3 can never be matched.... and I am a P car fan.

Modding an E46 non M car makes the least sense to me of anything evar. Its missing that x factor of being the bread to be the best handling car in america...

anyone remember that car and driver mag????????? anyone??? GEOFF?

Still not getting this X factor thing. Parts is parts. Put them all together and it is how the total package works.

Yes, Ms come with better parts from the factory, but only a bit better, and nto the best out there. If a stock E36 M was all that you would not see people swaping cams, shocks, springs, swaybars, etc. etc.

mag racers unite

HAHA It may have had an artical that said it was the best handeling car,(stock) THEN however that is far from the truth now a days.

xfactor is bunk when you can build a better car that is still a BMW for much less $. And by better I mean faster straight and faster turning.

Chase and Chas NEVER said anything about Mods.

The only criteria is $20K.

For 20K you can get a better stock E36 M3 than a stock E46 328, and thats all there is to it. The X factor in this equation is that a STOCK E36 M3 outperforms a STOCK E46 (non-M) out of the box. (and looks better according to most enthusiasts) period.

great debate boys, keep it up.

Chase and Chas NEVER said anything about Mods.

The only criteria is $20K.

For 20K you can get a better stock E36 M3 than a stock E46 328, and thats all there is to it. The X factor in this equation is that a STOCK E36 M3 outperforms a STOCK E46 (non-M) out of the box. (and looks better according to most enthusiasts) period. .

.

NEVAR said ANYTHING about mods...

We are talking the BEST daily driver for 20k.

Booyacasha.

Still not getting this X factor thing. Parts is parts. Put them all together and it is how the total package works.

Yes, Ms come with better parts from the factory, but only a bit better, and nto the best out there. If a stock E36 M was all that you would not see people swaping cams, shocks, springs, swaybars, etc. etc.

You dont because youve never owned one. Im dead serious. You cant know until you own what the hell we are talking about.

HAHA It may have had an artical that said it was the best handeling car,(stock)


exaclty. we are talking about a STOCK daily driver. STOCK is the key word here. Stock for stock E36 M3 is the best car, and the best BUY period.

:wave

best p-car forum post evAR:

"let's see if I can put it into American context. M3 = Michael Jordan. 911 = Charles Barkley."


I guess the pcar would be better at crashing the boards, where as the (sexy) E36 M3 coupe would excel at pulling up for the J.

I guess the pcar would be better at crashing the boards, we as the (sexy) E36 M3 coupe would excel at pulling up for the J.

so what does that make a non-M E46?

Greg Ostertag?

so what does that make a non-M E46?

Greg Ostertag?

I guess the maxima is the towel boy then? :stickoutt

I guess the maxima is the towel boy then? :stickoutt

true story

:(

so what does that make a non-M E46?

Greg Ostertag?

depends on if its an autoBOX,

then I'd say its a Bill Lambeer, well maybe Christian Laitner.

Interesting analogies. Vessel, maybe Karl Malone? Big, yet powerful, a little old but still a powerhouse?

Interesting analogies. Vessel, maybe Karl Malone? Big, yet powerful, a little old but still a powerhouse?

Vessell = Rasheed Wallace. no question.

Vessell = Rasheed Wallace. no question.
.

Buying an e36 m3 and keeping it stock is a fantasy in this crowd. It would be like hanging out with a bunch of heroin addicts and staying clean.

I do think Mods do come into it. What ever they buy, I can't see it staying stock.

So with mods in the picture it becomes which is the better car to mod. Here, the only thing the E36M has going for it is it is cheaper to mod, and that because the aftermarket has only started with the E46.

youre forgetting the timeless classic that is the E36 M3 (and is not anysort of E46 3er). Youre also forgetting that while he said it would be hard to stay stock in this crowd, he has never mentioned that he has any desires to mod the car.

we will make a new poll outside of utah and see what the people say

I missed the timeless classic part. It is a nice car and have nothing against it, but they are old and getting older. Tech moves on.

then you are the only one who does not think it is a classic

I have grown weary of arguing this with you. I cannot understand your logic here. Therefore I will not post in this thread again.

Vessell = Rasheed Wallace. no question.

okay, that was short.

This is where I bow out since i know nothing about or who in sports. I suck :(

But Ben I love your posts.

However. I am getting from alot of people that they like the old e30s m3s and the new e46 m3s more than the e36's because the e36 m3 is the same body style as other e36 non m3's.

exaclty. we are talking about a STOCK daily driver. STOCK is the key word here. Stock for stock E36 M3 is the best car, and the best BUY period.


in which case stock daily driver better choice IMO is the e46 obviously cause I was looking at both and this is what I picked duh ;)

In all honesty I could have got an m3 but insurance is more, worse mpg, and interiour = nowhere near as nice.

But hay thats just me. Then again I don't think e36 m3's are fast. (I don't think any stock car is fast for the most part) Or the best handeling, and its not cause I've never owned one, its cause I've experianced better.

I just checked the Porsche board and the Porsche guys are voting for the Porsche 19-5.

for a daily driver?

Interesting, course I can't hardly even fit in one.

It looks like the argument here is boiling down to e36 M3 or modded e46 (non-M). Did someone start a thread on this somewhere else? If so, where?

I just checked the Porsche board and the Porsche guys are voting for the Porsche 19-5.

Of course they are. What do they know :rolleyes :D Sillywads.

How about insurance for the lad? What would be better? I suppose they are probably rated the same but maybe one is less since it is older.

What is Chase leaning towards?

My first car was a porsche. Well kinda sorta maybe. (VW bug) :D

My first car was a porsche. Well kinda sorta maybe. (VW bug) :D

I used to date a girl that had a 'Vette -- a Chevette.

I used to date a girl that had a 'Vette -- a Chevette.


Hmm, all my g-friends had poopy cars come to think about it. Celicas, 323's (mazdas), Subaru's...One did have a cool lifted blazer. Then, there was my wifey who had a racey red Dodge Stealth, coolest g-friend car yet!

It's all about insurance. It would be way less with the M3......no? :confused

Ok, here's a great idea. What about a 97-99 Boxster? There are a grundle out there for less then 20K. I think the styling is a tad more updated than the E36 M3 and would be a great car for Chase.

:)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1998-Porsche-Boxster-5-Speed_W0QQitemZ4564580097QQcategoryZ6015QQrdZ1QQcm dZViewItem

That's actually a pretty good idea. The maintenance wouldn't be nearly as high as on an old 911, and that mid-engine design is very fun to drive, and the Chicks will definitely dig it.

I'll have to let Chase weigh in on his views. He needs to do a few more detail jobs before he has the money for the upgrade, however.

Boxters are girls cars.

Boxters are for getting girls cars.


I concur.

Well I was starting to lean towards the m3 over the 911. But now I have a whole nother decision m3 or boxter. I am leaning towards the boxter a little. Insurance on the m3 will be the same as we are paying now for the rover I dont know about a boxter though.

Boxters are slow girl cars.

Boxters are slow girl cars.

No, I disagree. They are hot. And a great entry level p-car. As stated above, much more updated look and a great car. I was very impressed with the non-S model I drove. My only concern was my room inside. I would own one.

A lot of folks have M3's, not too many school kids out there driving Boxsters.

Go for it Chase!

No, I disagree. They are hot. And a great entry level p-car. As stated above, much more updated look and a great car. I was very impressed with the non-S model I drove. My only concern was my room inside. I would own one.

A lot of folks have M3's, not too many school kids out there driving Boxsters.

Go for it Chase!


Doesn't the new Boxster (and the old one for that matter) have the best handling characteristics of any current P car (besides the GT)?

I also like the Boxter. That mid-engine gives it great handling -- very fun to drive and, most importantly, the chicks dig it.

Keep working, Chase.

Maybe we can get you a deal on Ant's old Boxter.

didnt he destroy that?

Yes, think of it like a fixer upper.

hahahahah x2

DO IT

I saw an 87 944 Turbo in the paper last night with only 30k miles for 16k.

I saw an 87 944 Turbo in the paper last night with only 30k miles for 16k.

Now THAT is a project/Track monster in the making. Oh baby...

(hey, did they make a 944 Turbo S?)

(hey, did they make a 944 Turbo S?)

Yes, they did.

Now THAT is a project/Track monster in the making. Oh baby...

(hey, did they make a 944 Turbo S?)

I was seriously considering buying one for a while.

you could always buy one that was already built (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=151531146&dealer_id=87389&car_year=1986&make=POR&distance=0&lang=en&max_price=&model=944&end_year=2006&min_price=&certified=&address=84092&search_type=both&advanced=&start_year=1981&isp=y&cardist=484)