Just got this in an email from Geico:

"Effective July 16, 2005, District of Columbia police officers will begin issuing $300.00 fines for drivers who cannot provide proof of insurance when stopped. An individual pulled over by District police officers must be able to provide license, registration and a current insurance card or a citation will be issued."

:devillook :devillook

What's the problem with that?

What's the problem with that?
None for me, but for the people that don't carry their insurance info on them, or have none at all...

None for me, but for the people that don't carry their insurance info on them, or have none at all...

Who the fuck cares about those irresponsible assholes anyway?

I'm glad that Geico/DCPD will be doing this and I think they should do it all the time. I was hit by a driver with no insurance 5 years ago, and I never want to deal with a debacle like that again.

Who the fuck cares about those irresponsible assholes anyway?
Jeez, I didn't post it for that reason anyway... just to warn people that it might be a good idea to have their insurance info on them when in the district...

Well, this will have no real affect on uninsured drivers - who are already subject to a much stiffer criminal penalty if convicted.
Besides, your OWN insurance policy provides coverage for damages caused by uninsured drivers (and making such a claim does not raise your rates).

This $300 fine seems like simply another revenue-generating scheme.

Even if you HAVE valid effective insurance, but for whatever reason do not have the CURRENT insurance card in the car, then you are FUCKED to the tune of $300 if you happen to get pulled-over for a tail light, loud muffler, speeding, etc.

The punishment seems vastly disproportionate to the "crime" . . . unless the law allows for the dismissal of the citation if you show-up in Court with valid proof of insurance for the time frame in question.

You can have an insurance card and still no insurance.
I mean what stops someone from canceling their insurance beside getting caught.

You can have an insurance card and still no insurance.
I mean what stops someone from canceling their insurance beside getting caught.
I can't remember ever being asked for proof of insurance. Just license and registration.

MD has a daily fine if you don't return you plates after you cancel your insurance. That seems like a pretty effective way of preventing most people from driving around with expired insurance. From the opposite side... Years back I got pulled over driving with expired tags and registration (insurance was fine). I was fined well over $300. I knew a guy who got pulled over for the same thing and his car was impounded - that cost him a lot more. I would hate to think of what the fines are now. They are probably more than my insurance premiums.

vrsixer - Thanks for the post, I'm not sure if I have a recent copy of my insurance form in my car. I just made another copy.

---Eric

I can't remember ever being asked for proof of insurance. Just license and registration.

MD has a daily fine if you don't return you plates after you cancel your insurance. That seems like a pretty effective way of preventing most people from driving around with expired insurance.
Oh that's right. I forgot about that.

I've never had to show a copy my insurance card to a cop in MD or VA.
I did in NJ though. I was surprised when I move the MD that my insurance company did not routinely give me an insurance card. I had to request it.

When we did registration for the VIR school we found out that not all states require insurance cards.

Oh that's right. I forgot about that.

I've never had to show a copy my insurance card to a cop in MD or VA.
I did in NJ though. I was surprised when I move the MD that my insurance company did not routinely give me an insurance card. I had to request it.

When we did registration for the VIR school we found out that not all states require insurance cards.
My company used to send out multiple cards but this year there was only one. I'll have to make copies.

---Eric

not to hijack but : 328ti: where in MD are you?

yup.. sounds like DC trying out yet another method of a "commuter tax".

They couldnt approve a real commuter tax, so by implementing speed cameras, parking tickets, and now this... it's their way of sticking it to MD/VA residents :mad

And doesnt DC have a massive SURPLUS right now? WTF? :confused

not to hijack but : 328ti: where in MD are you?Germantown.

yup.. sounds like DC trying out yet another method of a "commuter tax".

<shrug> I don't have a problem with revenue generation for the sake of revenue generation since they're still only busting you for things you're doing WRONG (running red lights, speeding, failing to carry insurance). Uh, those things are all ILLEGAL. The sanctity of the red light especially is something that needs to be enforced.

I admit that I speed, but I also submit that I assume the risk of doing so. If I get caught, damn, I got caught. But I know I was violating a law. You'll never see me on here saying that cops are idiots because they gave me a ticket for 75 in a 55 :rolleyes .

<shrug> I don't have a problem with revenue generation for the sake of revenue generation since they're still only busting you for things you're doing WRONG (running red lights, speeding, failing to carry insurance). Uh, those things are all ILLEGAL.

last time I checked oral sex was illegal in DC too. Non missionary positions also. I can't wait for the revenue generating crackdown that ensues with that one. I mean, technically it must be WRONG if it's ILLEGAL right?

:devillook

yup.. sounds like DC trying out yet another method of a "commuter tax".

They couldnt approve a real commuter tax, so by implementing speed cameras, parking tickets, and now this... it's their way of sticking it to MD/VA residents :mad

And doesnt DC have a massive SURPLUS right now? WTF? :confused
Ahhh, I'm proud to say that I'm a DC Govt. employee... er, uh, maybe I'm not proud... :devillook

<shrug> I don't have a problem with revenue generation for the sake of revenue generation since they're still only busting you for things you're doing WRONG (running red lights, speeding, failing to carry insurance).



How is failing to carry your current insurance card in the car "WRONG"?

Its malum prohibitum: wrong simply because a regulation says its wrong.

Running a red light is malum en se: Just plain inherently wrong, regardless of what regs may say about it.

Apples/oranges.

One is the equivalent of collecting a hefty fine from somebody simply because they wore a belt with suspenders (a combo which will soon be outlawed in DC :stickoutt ).

The other is punishment for a violation that can, and often does, result in the loss of innocent lives and/or serious injury.

Its malum prohibitum: wrong simply because a regulation says its wrong.

Try not to mix opinion with fact. Doing so weakens an argument.

I do believe this is just a revenue generation scheme. However, failing to carry an insurance card could in the eyes of the law prove to be dangerous should you be in an accident and have the need to produce proof of insurance to the other party. If someone hit me and didn't have a card I would be likely to report the accident as one with an uninsured motorist, no matter what the person says.

How hard is it to carry an insurance card in both your car (or motorcycle) AND in your wallet? Can't be too hard, because I've done it for years. :stickoutt

Try not to mix opinion with fact. Doing so weakens an argument.

However, failing to carry an insurance card could in the eyes of the law prove to be dangerous should you be in an accident and have the need to produce proof of insurance to the other party.

Try to mix logic into your argument . . . doing so tends to strengthen it. ;)

How hard is it to carry an insurance card in both your car (or motorcycle) AND in your wallet? Can't be too hard, because I've done it for years. :stickoutt

I've done the same since I started driving. It seems logical. :dunno

I used to shoot herion, can I be the Mayor of DC!! :help

I've done the same since I started driving. It seems logical. :dunno

:lol Of course it does, especially when a $300 fine looms.

However, the difficulty, or lack thereof, associated with compliance is irrelevant to the issue of whether noncompliance is inherently WRONG.

Suggesting that forgetting or otherwise neglecting to have a current ins. card in the car could be "dangerous", and is therefore inherently wrong, is . . . . uhhh . . . without logic. :rolleyes

I used to shoot herion, can I be the Mayor of DC!! :help


Nope. Gotta hit that crack pipe.

Yeap i got the same e-mail today.

Suggesting that forgetting or otherwise neglecting to have a current ins. card in the car could be "dangerous", and is therefore inherently wrong, is . . . . uhhh . . . without logic. :rolleyes

:dunno: That's the only reason we're forced to carry insurance cards at ALL, Garrett. Everyone needs to be able to produce information about their coverage in case they should get in an accident. Otherwise you're going through the DMV to find out with whom the person was last insured - and that might not be their current company! That's certainly the case with me...

I don't get why this is so difficult to understand. It's not like it's a hardship to always have your card with you.

:dunno: That's the only reason we're forced to carry insurance cards at ALL, Garrett. Everyone needs to be able to produce information about their coverage in case they should get in an accident. Otherwise you're going through the DMV to find out with whom the person was last insured - and that might not be their current company! That's certainly the case with me...

I don't get why this is so difficult to understand. It's not like it's a hardship to always have your card with you.

Yea.. but still... the whole thing just seems like a money making venture.. their intent isnt the same as you are implying. Much like how they ticket out of state cars for not having front tags...

Yea.. but still... the whole thing just seems like a money making venture.. their intent isnt the same as you are implying. Much like how they ticket out of state cars for not having front tags...

I just don't understand why some people have to be such crybabies about laws that shouldn't even affect them. If you carry your insurance card with you this will NEVER BE AN ISSUE. Props to DC for trying to make money off of it. :)

failing to carry an insurance card could in the eyes of the law prove to be dangerous should you be in an accident and have the need to produce proof of insurance to the other party.

how?! will the other party die or become more injured if you can't bust out the insurance card? does the card have a built in defib on the back of it or something?

insurance information can always be followed up after the accident, there is nothing dangerous from not having an insurance card. it's just the opposite actually, not carrying it may save you from a nasty papercut. :stickoutt

not having the card simply means you either don't have insurance (that's why we buy uninsured motorist insurance) or cause you misplaced it and are now suffering the penalties of not having it on your person/car.

it's the same as not driving with your DL. you either forgot it or you don't have one.

-Ron <- insurance card w/ onstar built into it

how?! will the other party die or become more injured if you can't bust out the insurance card? does the card have a built in defib on the back of it or something?

insurance information can always be followed up after the accident, there is nothing dangerous from not having an insurance card. it's just the opposite actually, not carrying it may save you from a nasty papercut. :stickoutt

not having the card simply means you either don't have insurance (that's why we buy uninsured motorist insurance) or cause you misplaced it and are now suffering the penalties of not having it on your person/car.

it's the same as not driving with your DL. you either forgot it or you don't have one.

-Ron <- insurance card w/ onstar built into it
maybe you just used the wrong word? :dunno

how?! will the other party die or become more injured if you can't bust out the insurance card? does the card have a built in defib on the back of it or something?

Perhaps "dangerous" was a poor choice of words. I'll put it in terms of an actual experience, and why I think having a card on-hand is important.

Buddy and I were cruising in his '71 Chevelle. Stopped at a red light, the chick behind him sees the light turn green and hits the gas, not realizing that we haven't actually gone anywhere yet. Smacks his (big, heavy, chrome) back bumper. Damages her hood but there is no apparent damage to his car. (Later we would find that there was indeed damage, due to some rust in the Chevelle's trunk floor). Woman can't produce an insurance card. "There's no damage anyway, why would you report it?" was her reasoning.

He takes down her name and all the info from her license. Address, license number, full name, DOB, etc etc. He gets her phone number. She claims over and over that she has insurance, but just didn't have it in the car.

Later that day he calls the number - disconnected.

Calls the DMV. Insurance info is on file, but he calls the company and she cancelled two years previous.

Tracks down her house - it's not her current address.

Now WTF? He reports it to the police (there was no police report at the accident - mistake number one) who begin the process of tracking her down. It takes three months to find her. As it turns out she DID have insurance, and NOW he gets to deal with fighting her insurance company, who wants to deny any damage claims he has because he waited 3 months to contact them. :confused

This is the reason I'm in support of the law and a bit scared about people who don't have their cards. You guys may be honest, but not everyone is. Again, there is really no downside. If you have your card on you, you'll never be hit by this. That's the part you guys cannot reason away. You just don't like the law because it's a law.

(Incidentally, the car got fixed, only to be rear ended again two months later when parked in a friend's driveway. Guess it was cursed... :stickoutt )

maybe you just used the wrong word? :dunno

Is this your other personality posting?

Is this your other personality posting?
:rofl the voices in my head use a different screen name.

no no, I was quoting myself to add to the post to ask you if you had used 'dangerous' by mistake. :)

as for the case you had, you're absolutely right and I do agree that you need to have the card with you at all times. NJ cards have a note on the back stating that it's the law to have insurance and there is a $158 fine for not having it on hand. $158 each for no license or registration card either.

expired registration, insurance or inspection will get your car impounded. I believe failure to provide proof of the above can land you a free tow truck ride to the county impound lot as well.

-Ron

:rofl the voices in my head use a different screen name.

no no, I was quoting myself to add to the post to ask you if you had used 'dangerous' by mistake. :)

as for the case you had, you're absolutely right and I do agree that you need to have the card with you at all times. NJ cards have a note on the back stating that it's the law to have insurance and there is a $158 fine for not having it on hand. $158 each for no license or registration card either.

expired registration, insurance or inspection will get your car impounded. I believe failure to provide proof of the above can land you a free tow truck ride to the county impound lot as well.

-Ron

THANK YOU.

Even you "EuroW3RkZzz" ricers have a brain now and then... :stickoutt

ricer? far from it. you won't see any bling on this bimmer. ;)

ricer? far from it. you won't see any bling on this bimmer. ;)

Was only kidding WRT you. :stickoutt

The rest of the Eur0w3rkZzZ cr3w scares the living crap out of me though. :eek:

Was only kidding WRT you. :stickoutt

The rest of the Eur0w3rkZzZ cr3w scares the living crap out of me though. :eek:
I know, just trying to stand apart from the rest of the crowd.

...just wait till I get my spinnerz though. :pimpflash

John... wouldnt that also have been solved if you just called the police to the scene? regardless if she had/didnt have her insurance card, the police would have taken care of that little fact when they arrived.

Only problem is.. police typically do not respond to fender benders.

Or... you could have a situation like my sister in NJ.... some guy hit her.. and ran.... ON FOOT. Turns out he didnt have insurance, car was impounded and the owner CLAIMED she didnt give permission to the guy to take the car. :rolleyes

Also.. in your friend's sitation... he should have reported it to HIS insurance company that day, along w/ the license plate, etc. That should be good enough and his insurance co. would have tracked her down on their own.

John,

You seem to be missing the point. Nobody said it was a difficult law to adhere to. :confused

Some have simply said that the fine is excessive and appears to be another money-making scheme for D.C. You seem to agree. So where's the beef?

Also, FYI:

Tag (registration plate) number usually = ability to obtain insurance info in less than 24hrs.

Any ins. co., investigator or lawyer can track down ins. info, current address, phone, employer, etc. pretty quickly/easily with a modicum of basic information.

Uninsured Motorist Coverage is MANDATED by law. We all have it through our own ins. carrier. Accordingly, we (and anyone who lives in our households) are all protected (financially) from the uninsured and/or hit & run motorist, whether we are hit while in our vehicle, somebody else's vehicle, or as a pedestrian.

Anyone who is in an accident should CALL THE COPS, or have the common sense to, AT A MINIMUM, copy the driver's info DIRECTLY from their DL, copy their tag number directly from their tag, and record the year, color, make and model of the car. A phone number (and other verbal info) is prolly the least valuable item you can walk away from an accident with.

I bet your buddy was "smart" enough to carry his ins. card with him, though . . . good man :alright

For the record, I actually like the law, too - but think $300 is too much dough.

What a retarded law. This is just another excuse to steal money from law-abiding citizens.

What a retarded law. This is just another excuse to steal money from law-abiding citizens.
that's the gist of it. similiar to Jersey's recent blitz on speeders.

John,

You seem to be missing the point.

Pot? Meet Kettle. :D

Anyone who is in an accident should CALL THE COPS, or have the common sense to, AT A MINIMUM, copy the driver's info DIRECTLY from their DL, copy their tag number directly from their tag, and record the year, color, make and model of the car. A phone number (and other verbal info) is prolly the least valuable item you can walk away from an accident with.

He did all of this. 'course this was in the days before everyone had a cell phone and in a fairly remote area. It just happened that our only real recourse was to drive home before calling the police.

Again, if you carry your card, it's not anything you have to worry about. So don't get in a tizzy. It'll never affect you. :stickoutt

that's the gist of it. similiar to Jersey's recent blitz on speeders.

So speeding is legal now?

It'll never affect you. :stickoutt

See, that's the thing. Some of us are so self-righteous as to believe that, in our blissful state of perfection, we could never ever make a simple mistake . . . like forgetting to place the current ins. card in the car. Such an idiotic error is beneath us!

I am not one of those people. I am old. My mind is bad. I am very forgetful. I can admit that I am less than vigilant about MAKING SURE that I have a current ins. card in all of my cars at all times. Historically, this has been a very low priority for me, as I have been with the same ins. co for the last 10 years and had the same policy number etc. for that long. My ins. card from 1995 likely has all the same info on it as the one I have from 2005, except for the "active dates". In the MANY (too many) times I've been pulled-over, I've never had an officer ask for an insurance card. (Knock on wood) I've never been in a single traffic situation where I needed an insurance card. So its not exactly something that sits in the forefront of my feeble little mind.

So, due to the fact that I am merely an imperfect human, I just might be the guy who has to pay $300 because I forgot to promptly run to the grarage and put the card in the vehicle. All the other imperfect humans around here run the same risk. I would imagine that that is why this thread was posted in the first place: a warning to us imperfect types. The perfect can disregard it.

The perfect types never get pulled over anyway. :devillook :stickoutt