Looking at both an 03 Z4 or two 01 boxster S. I'm on the fence. I've always wanted a porsche, but the two boxsters I'm looking at have 40k miles and the bimmer has 3,600 miles. All cars are close to the same price. The bimmer may end up costing a couple grand more, but it's like getting a brand new car with the mileage so low. He's asking $33,000 for 03 Z4 red/tan, 3600miles. Is that reasonable?

Also, any thoughts on the performance of both cars?

The Boxster S is a total blast to drive...if i had the choice between the two, I would definately go for the Boxster.

ur kiddin... seriously boxsters are for women. Dont even think about getting it. GOing from a M to a boxster is almost degrading. Get the Z4. The int and the ext are both much nicer. Boxster... LOL. ITs a wannabe 911

I'm in a similar quandary. Have you checked out the prices on '99-'00 911s? You can find cars with 50k miles or so for $33k.

Emanuel

ur kiddin... seriously boxsters are for women. Dont even think about getting it. GOing from a M to a boxster is almost degrading. Get the Z4. The int and the ext are both much nicer. Boxster... LOL. ITs a wannabe 911

Wow.... :confused Most intelligent post i've ever seen on this forum.... :rolleyes

I'd take the Boxster S. The handling/balance is amazing. Hell, the new Boxster pulled the fastest ever salomn times for one of the larger magazines.

I have already considered the 911, which is what I have always wanted. That said, the only one I can afford right now is the 99/00 carrera. They completely redesigned the car in 99 which makes me a little cautious about getting a 99. There is a guy in my area selling a 99 with 40k miles for $32000. I wanted to buy it, but I'm afraid the 99 may be a bit of a gamble being the first year that model came out. I definately don't want to run into the same type of issues I had with my 95M3.

The Boxter is so bland looking, the Z4 has such a punch, plus it is a lot easier to work on, a lot easier. You don't have to drop the engine to change the spark plugs. The Z4 will be more reliable too.

If you dont' want to run into problems, run away from Porsches. They are fun, nice cars. But they are really high maintanance.

An 03 Z4 vs. an 01 Boxster S? Are you kidding me? Well, go drive both. I've driven the Boxster S (not the new one) sooooo many times trying to convince myself that it was faster than it felt. The 3.0 Z4 feels much (and is ) much faster. Also, the Z4 doesn't have that Rear Mail Seal issue that blows up the Porsche engines prematurely - OUTSIDE OF WARRANTY... Check out roadfly.org and you'll find your answer on Z4 vs. Boxster S...

Wow.... :confused Most intelligent post i've ever seen on this forum.... :rolleyes

I'd take the Boxster S. The handling/balance is amazing. Hell, the new Boxster pulled the fastest ever salomn times for one of the larger magazines.

I believe he's talking about a 2001 Boxster S and not the new one... 2005 3.0 Z4 vs. 2005 Boxster S is a totally different story. In the latter case, it comes down to "is the Porsche worth the $15k more difference"? This is roughly what it comes down to in pricing with similarly outfitted cars... In this case, the $15k difference would be worth it to me for the NEW Boxster S.... - although I read is still has the "Rear Main Seal" issue...

The new Porsches (both 987 and 997) are using the same engine casting as the previous models, and are just as likely to have the rear main seal issue as the old cars. That said, on the internet you tend to hear more problems than praise and I think it's over-stated online. I'm not the least bit reluctant to own one.

On the subject of the Z4 v. Boxster S, the BMW has more low-end torque and so feels faster but doesn't handle as well as the Boxster, but it's still a BMW and drives pretty darn well just the same. With the Z4 on the table, I wouldn't even consider a Boxster.

-E

Boxster S

ur kiddin... seriously boxsters are for women. Dont even think about getting it. GOing from a M to a boxster is almost degrading. Get the Z4. The int and the ext are both much nicer. Boxster... LOL. ITs a wannabe 911

YOU must be kidding...sitting here downplaying the Boxster S? I would understand if the regular Boxster was in question here, but its not, and the difference between the regular Boxster and the "S" is like night and day. Seriously. The Z4 is a great car, and the 3.0i is very comparible to the Boxster S, between the 2 cars i would be hard pressed to make a quick decision...but based on what ive learned hanging around my brothers brokerage lot...my decision would probobly end up with the bimmer...for a few reasons...

- Boxster engine is near impossible to work on in any facit yourself...it is crammed away and sits to where its hard enough to simply SEE the damn thing, much less do anything to it yourself. The BMW engine is sitting plain sight where you can access anything you want to tinker with (if that floats your boat).

- Porsches have always and will always have reliability issues that usually result in large repair bills. Under warranty your good to go...but out of warranty, driving the car almost makes you wary because of the possibility something to go wrong on it (and will eventually happen without question). Now this is true with any car really, but with Porsche, they are cars that ARE driven hard...and while their no where near "bad" as far as reliability goes, the bimmer probobly wont have as many problems (and even in that, its still a maybe, since BMW's tend to get problematic at times too).

...the decision certainly wouldnt be easy though, while the Z4 FEELS like it accelerates faster, i believe the Boxster S has a faster acceleration time 0-60 and 1/4...handling wise the Boxster S is the better of the two, you simply cannot beat the Boxsters engine chassis setup with a FR BMW...(without modification that is...hee hee). Class wise, both cars carry a certain curb appeal, i think the Z4 holds a little more modern and "less common" look to it...but then again, theres something that comes with owning a porsche car...something that every owner ive ever talked to wouldnt do without.

Test drive both a few times, take them into heavy traffic (Porsches tend to be kind of a pain in the ass to drive in every day traffic conditions and stop and go traffic...), and see which one fits you like a glove more...my feeling is, if your looking for a more raw sports car, the Porsche will win your heart, if you need a little more luxury and class, the BMW is probobly the better route...

- Boxster engine is near impossible to work on in any facit yourself...it is crammed away and sits to where its hard enough to simply SEE the damn thing, much less do anything to it yourself.
That is defintely true. It took a friend and me nearly an hour to install a K&N drop-in filter on his Boxster. You had to pop off trim pieces, lift the rear of the top up a certain way, remove a couple panels and after all that you could just barely get to the air box. The SSK install was a bit easier, all done from inside the car. It was a lot of fun to drive though, but I do like my Z4 better.

They are 100% right about the boxster's lack of power, unless your talking about the 2005. And if your going for that type of coin, buy yourself a 2002 911 for 50k. I was also really dissapointed in the boxster S's speed on the 200-2004 models. The z4 was a much quicker car. (suprisingly for the cost)

both cars are more or less equally fun to drive
<b>but</b>
the '01 boxster interior is sh!t, especially compared to the z4...it's not contest
so if that matters @ all to you go for the z4
unless the porsche badge is more important

now an '05 boxster...hmmm, may have to go with the boxster in that scenario, @ least until the n54 is available in the z


btw I'm assuming your looking @ a 3.oi & not 2.5i?

Go for the 3.0 Z4 (2003) .. . the 2001 Boxster S, look cheap and still look girlie.
- cheaper to upgrade
- cheaper to fix
- easier to get to the engine
- better interior

*sigh* There's so much misinformation and ignorant statements in this thread.

I used to own a '95 M3 and presently own an '04 986 Boxster S. Let me debunk some of the comments from above.

1. Drop engine to change sparkplugs, oil, whatever...
Not even close. I don't know why people make up these statements. You can access the plugs easily from each of the rear wheel wells due to the Boxster having a "boxer" engine. Oil changes are like on any other car. It's more expensive but that's because it requires 10 quarts of synthetic. Remove the firewall and you have access to the belts, remove the lower panels and you have access to the underside of the engine, remove the top cover and you have access to the top of the engine.

2. Z4 is faster.
Again, wrong. Everybody loves to quote Porsche's times, known for being ultra conservative. If you want to do that, then BMW's claim for the Z4 is 5.9 0-60. Here's one of many times from car mags: 0-60 in 5.2 seconds. 1/4 mile: 13.8@101mph.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=39&article_id=3234&page_number=1

No Z4 tested matches those numbers (and especially in the 1/4 mile trap speed). And that's for the 986 S. Sorry, but a 3000 lbs Boxster S (actually, curb weight starts @ 2910 lbs) with 258hp is not slower than a 3000 lbs 225hp Z4.

Here's some other things to think about:
1. Mid engine handling dynamics. Steering feel is better than the E36 M3, which was badass. Z4 = electric steering (lame) that doesn't work right in heat.
2. 40/60 weight distribution = better acceleration and better braking. 50/50 weight distribution is a marketing scam.
3. 2 trunks = more storage space than Z4
4. 4 piston Porsche/Brembo brakes. Z4 has single piston bicycle brakes with typical BMW overboosting to make you think they're super brakes.
5. Classic styling vs. uh...flamboyant styling :D

Bash the Boxster all you want. But don't make things up to try and support your statements. I will say that earlier Boxsters didn't have the greatest interiors. But things were significantly improved in '03 (which also added the glass rear window).

I used to own a '95 M3 and presently own an '04 986 Boxster S.

Most of your points may be legit...but unfortunately, I believe the 3.0 Z4 comparison was for a 2001 Boxster S and not a 2004 Boxster S.

Also, relatively speaking, all your Boxster maintenance points are STILL significantly more of a PITA than the Z4...

Not even close. I don't know why people make up these statements. You can access the plugs easily from each of the rear wheel wells due to the Boxster having a "boxer" engine. Oil changes are like on any other car. It's more expensive but that's because it requires 10 quarts of synthetic. Remove the firewall and you have access to the belts, remove the lower panels and you have access to the underside of the engine, remove the top cover and you have access to the top of the engine. .

Ummm...yuck!!!

40/60 weight distribution = better acceleration and better braking. 50/50 weight distribution is a marketing scam..

Hmmmm....would you still say it was a marketing scam if all if not most of the F1 cars weight distribution is 50/50? What is it for the Porsche Carrerra GT? I bet it's close to 50/50 as I quote the Porsche Carrera GT website "By placing the engine and aluminium fuel tank directly behind the cockpit, it was possible to achieve a more even distribution of vehicle weight - one of the essential prerequisites for the car's superior dynamics."

*sigh* There's so much misinformation and ignorant statements in this thread. ..

No offense meant. I figured it must be important to you to not spread misinformation. But you may have inadvertently done the same regarding the 50/50.

I think the new Boxster S is awesome - especially with the upgrades in the interior. I'm even in the market for one assuming the M Roadster doesn't come to fruition! However, when comparing the Z4 to the pre-987 Boxsters, S or otherwise, I'd take the 3.0 Z4 easily. And the 3.0 Z4 vs. a 2001 Boxster S? No contest on that one under any category...except trunk space...

*sigh* There's so much misinformation and ignorant statements in this thread.

I used to own a '95 M3 and presently own an '04 986 Boxster S. Let me debunk some of the comments from above.

2. Z4 is faster.
Again, wrong. Everybody loves to quote Porsche's times, known for being ultra conservative. If you want to do that, then BMW's claim for the Z4 is 5.9 0-60. Here's one of many times from car mags: 0-60 in 5.2 seconds. 1/4 mile: 13.8@101mph.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=39&article_id=3234&page_number=1

No Z4 tested matches those numbers (and especially in the 1/4 mile trap speed). And that's for the 986 S. Sorry, but a 3000 lbs Boxster S (actually, curb weight starts @ 2910 lbs) with 258hp is not slower than a 3000 lbs 225hp Z4.
C&D managed to run the 3.0i to 60 mph in 5.3 sec., don't recall the 1/4 time. It's a driver's race, just as with the s2k. .1 sec dif. could be from a variety of factors but does not make either car statistically faster.
That said I wasn't aware that a 986 had ever been tested that fast out of the box.

Here's some other things to think about:
1. Mid engine handling dynamics. Steering feel is better than the E36 M3, which was badass. Z4 = electric steering (lame) that doesn't work right in heat.
I've never had problem #1 with my steering in heat, thanks. :)

3. 2 trunks = more storage space than Z4
the question is, is it more "usable" space
ie sure it's more cubic feet of space, but how is it arranged...?
4. 4 piston Porsche/Brembo brakes. Z4 has single piston bicycle brakes with typical BMW overboosting to make you think they're super brakes.
doesn't the m5 'only' have single piston brakes also?
unless I'm wrong in that fact, then if it's good enough for an M, it's good enough for the Z4, and simply overkill on the boxster

5. Classic styling vs. uh...flamboyant styling
come now, that's entirly subjective
some consider the z3 a hairdresser's car, and most guys on bf.c totally disagree
just as us Z4 owners love the z4 styling, and I'm sure boxster owners like boxster styling

personally the boxster is just bleh on the outside...I dislike how the cabin is placed in the middle of the car...imo the z4 with the cockpit set back, with the long hood and short trunk make for a much more aggressive/attractive exterior (oh & I happen to like the rear, and the side styling thx)


a girly Boxster:
http://www.germancarfans.com/photos/3040509.002/1007big.jpg
you can't compare a modded car w/a stock car, it's just not fair
sure that car looks great & aggressive but so to does an alpina modified Z4

Hmmmm....would you still say it was a marketing scam if all if not most of the F1 cars weight distribution is 50/50?

I wouldn't say that if your statement were true. However, F1 cars don't have 50/50. Neither do Indy Champ cars. They're all around 43/57. I challenge you to prove that they're 50/50. Hint: you won't be able to.

What is it for the Porsche Carrerra GT? I bet it's close to 50/50 as I quote the Porsche Carrera GT website "By placing the engine and aluminium fuel tank directly behind the cockpit, it was possible to achieve a more even distribution of vehicle weight - one of the essential prerequisites for the car's superior dynamics."

Uh huh. I hope you're not a betting big. 40/60 for the CGT.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=8101&page_number=3

Go ahead and google McLaren F1, Enzo, Murcielago, etc. al. You'll find 50/50 is a marketing term. Think about it...the engine and transmission is behind the driver.

No offense meant. I figured it must be important to you to not spread misinformation. But you may have inadvertently done the same regarding the 50/50.

No offense taken. But I don't think I've misrepresented with the above facts. But like so many Boxster urban myths, where did you get your info from?

I think the new Boxster S is awesome - especially with the upgrades in the interior.

I think the new interior sucks. All square and Japanese looking. The only thing I like better in the 987 is the 280hp.

However, when comparing the Z4 to the pre-987 Boxsters, S or otherwise, I'd take the 3.0 Z4 easily.

Well, you have a right to choose whatever car you fancy. Just don't go under the pretense that it's a better performer or that it's too hard to change spark plugs on a Boxster or whatever.

And the 3.0 Z4 vs. a 2001 Boxster S? No contest on that one under any category...except trunk space...

Care to explain "under any category"? Surely it can't be performance.

-

C&D managed to run the 3.0i to 60 mph in 5.3 sec., don't recall the 1/4 time. It's a driver's race, just as with the s2k. .1 sec dif. could be from a variety of factors but does not make either car statistically faster. That said I wasn't aware that a 986 had ever been tested that fast out of the box.

5.3 is unusually fast for a Z4. Average mag times would be 5.6 seconds. Average times for the 986 S would be 5.3 seconds (I've seen 5.2 to 5.4 seconds) when they're not quoting Porsche's numbers (which is 5.5 seconds 0-60). Often times, you'll see mags mistake the 0-100Km time of 5.7 quoted as 0-60. But I agree, it's all close. Throw the E46 M3 Cabrio in there too as it's around 5.2 seconds.

BMW have always geared aggressively short to give the impression of greater oomph. I believe the Z4 does the 1/4 mile around 14.3 @ 98mph (e.g. losing steam). This is where you'll see the Boxster S pull further away. Again, nothing earth shattering but the S is no slouch.


I've never had problem #1 with my steering in heat, thanks. :)

And I've never had an RMS leak. KTHX. :D


the question is, is it more "usable" space
ie sure it's more cubic feet of space, but how is it arranged...?

It is very usable. I can fit my golf bag in the back and the front is very deep and decently wide...probably good for 5 grocery bags.

doesn't the m5 'only' have single piston brakes also?
unless I'm wrong in that fact, then if it's good enough for an M, it's good enough for the Z4, and simply overkill on the boxster

And in talking with an M5 driver that ran Thunderhill, he cooked his brakes and rotors. Ask any M3/M5 driver that has been on the track and they'll tell you the same thing about their brakes.

come now, that's entirly subjective some consider the z3 a hairdresser's car, and most guys on bf.c totally disagree just as us Z4 owners love the z4 styling, and I'm sure boxster owners like boxster styling

:D All converible 2 seaters aren't considered "manly"...usually by weak people. I just find it funny that a Z3 owner would call a Boxster "girly".



you can't compare a modded car w/a stock car, it's just not fair
sure that car looks great & aggressive but so to does an alpina modified Z4

Fine. Then I'll use my car with the factory aerokit. Haven't even had time to lower it yet so it's still "stock". Still looks aggressive to me. :buttrock
http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/8585/b10wf.jpg

-

I cannot believe all the hating towards the Boxster S...i mean really guys come on now, the Boxster maybe, given its toned down...well...everything, but we're talking the "S", i mean i drove this car and then drove my brothers dinan tuned E36 M3 and i would have taken the Porsche all day, and i know my brothers M3 would blast any Z4 in any facet of performance...nothing against the Z4, im a big fan now of the car, and i desperately hope my father in law purchases his soon, but really, to say the things about the Boxster "S" that ive been reading in here...calling it "girlie" and just talking down about various aspects of the car that, no matter how their viewed, pretty much out the Z4 in everything but interior build quality (given that all the rest are subjective and opinionated)...how can you not have respect enough for the Porsche to atleast say "Their both great cars but i prefer the Z4"...

I mean really...i know 80% of the people on this site would take a Z4 over an S2000, but would you jump on the Honda the same way, speaking down on various aspects of it, while it is a very competitive car to both the BMW and Porsche?

Wow.... :confused Most intelligent post i've ever seen on this forum.... :rolleyes

I'd take the Boxster S. The handling/balance is amazing. Hell, the new Boxster pulled the fastest ever salomn times for one of the larger magazines.
road and track

who ever said the z4 is a hairdressers car, well the lady that cuts my hair has one. I love Z4s and i wouldnt call them a hairdressers car but cant debate that one.

Fine. Then I'll use my car with the factory aerokit. Haven't even had time to lower it yet so it's still "stock". Still looks aggressive to me. -

It kinda looks like a Miata...

^^^ Come on now...that was just wrong, the mention of the mazda miata is almost a sin when discussing the cars in this thread.

Ok...ok...it was a cheap shot (but admittedly funny) and I truly apologize. But color this car black and you tell me...

It kinda looks like a Miata...
na, now the s2000 does bear alot of resemblance to a miata imo, and much closer in price point, $10k vs. $30k dif. :)

Now everything makes sense. M3Armand needs to get his eyes checked because surely he is blind. :D BTW, did you do any investigating on the weight distribution issue? ...Because I think I won that bet. Own up!

All in good fun, everybody. Enjoy your cars. I know I enjoy mine.


-

Hey NCM3,

Considering the performance issues as close as they are, I think I would let your seat decide. Since they do drive noticable different, you will probably like one more than the other after driving them. Since love of driving is the main reason people drive cars like these. Most of the other issues are personal opinion and preference anyway.

I remember early articles on tracking the Boxter S and the Z4 3.0i that the magazine guys said things about preferring the handling of the Boxter S even though the Z4 beat it around the track. So I think it is more about the subjectives than the numbers.

As far as price... I think you can do better than the 33k for the Z4 unless that one is a fully loaded Dealership car with CPO. - For example, mine is for sale at 27999 fully loaded except nav and has CPO. It also has a automatic and 38k miles.

Good luck.

I would get the Boxster S in a hearbeat. Its a great car... better than the Z4

I mean really...i know 80% of the people on this site would take a Z4 over an S2000, but would you jump on the Honda the same way, speaking down on various aspects of it, while it is a very competitive car to both the BMW and Porsche?


<---------------------representin for the 20% minority :buttrock

Now everything makes sense. M3Armand needs to get his eyes checked because surely he is blind. :D BTW, did you do any investigating on the weight distribution issue? ...Because I think I won that bet. Own up!-

Whoa! Not yet, not yet!!! I really really meant to do some research, but work is getting in the way! But hey! I'm thinkin' C&D is wrong on that weight dist. thing. I would have thought that Porsche itself would have that info handy, but what else can a person infer from a statement like this posted on their site "By placing the engine and aluminium fuel tank directly behind the cockpit, it was possible to achieve a more even distribution of vehicle weight - one of the essential prerequisites for the car's superior dynamics."???

<---------------------representin for the 20% minority

:alright