I inherited my 94 525i from the mother when she upgraded to a newer BMW 2 years ago - theres NOTHING budget about BMW's - new or used - parts or anything custom is expensive - people buy because they love german engineering - we got our 94 525 when we sold our 528e - we still have 96 318ti, 95 325i and the newest e46(my least favorite - only put 15k on it since we got it - bought used with 30k 2 years ago) BMW styling is timeless until they hit with this new ugly looking junk today - aka the new 3, 5, 6, 7 - yes Id take any M version - v10 pwr - but the normal "doggy HUGE heavy gaudy" models are not my style - sorry to anyone who has or likes them - its toooooo mainstream for me - before BMW was making cars to make them for people who wanted a good sporty BMW machine - now its seems to me it is for any yuppie who has enough to buy a BMW - aka the hideous new 5 - it seems BMW sold out - honestly I hate our newest BMW - 325xi - not comfy - verysmooth its still a BMW but its big - feels bigger than my car - just not for me - gotta go e34 or anything pre 99 - those were BMWs - the real BMW was my first car 82 e24 633csi - sorry to make fun of BMW thats all we have ever had just disappointed in their new styling

I agree with you a 100% on that one. Although the face-lifted 7er is not that bad imo.

when you put an old E34 next to a new E90 3 series, they look about the same size. its that damn bangle who is ruining the BMW reputation, IMO

altho im not fond of the new look for the recent cars i think they coulda done alot worse...i cant really think of any designs that they coulda done to improve the current E39, cuz IMO its perfect. So i guess they had to make some drastic changes

the new bmws did surely create a different market all together. imo, older models of cars like bmw, ferrari, mbz, etc.. are always considered better in their own little ways. nowadays, its seems like a lot of the car companies out there stepped up to that higher standard that it made it harder for bmw (and other german car makers) to keep that gap between an BMW E90 to an Inifiniti G35...i personally prefer the older ones and i truly think that BMW's true German masterpiece is the 1988 E30 M3!! everything else is just a status symbol....

I hate the New styling, part Toyota, part Hyundai, I think BMW made a huge "Bangle" on this one, they have lost the unique look. Drive behind a newer BMW at night and it is hard to tell what it is. But I have to disagree with the pre ,99 cutoff. The '99 - '03 E39's are probably the finest driving cars ever made. Drive a big engined E39 (530, 540 or M5) and it will make you a believer. I just came back from a 4000 mile road trip in my '99 540. AWESOME

Im not the one to get tired of topics, but this bangle thing has been beaten to death. if you dont like the design, move on...or stay with the BMW you like. there are many cars out there to choose from. i dont think BMW is holding a gun to anyones head and say buy my cars.

I never get tired of beating on Bangle. My 2 E39 will probably be my last car :stickoutt

Im not the one to get tired of topics, but this bangle thing has been beaten to death. if you dont like the design, move on...or stay with the BMW you like. there are many cars out there to choose from. i dont think BMW is holding a gun to anyones head and say buy my cars.
I concur. There are a few different reasons people feel BMW has "sold out" and none are really true if you look at both sides. In this situation, everyone blames Bangle for the new design trend. Bangle is just the head of design. He didnt actualy design all of the new BMW's. I dont remember the guys name off the top of my head who did but it wasnt Bangle. The new design trend has grown on me. I still prefer some of the older models, and have a great appreciation for the old rare cars like the Isetta, M1, and Z1. Times change and people want different things though. If BMW didnt keep up with the times then they would litteraly have to sell out to larger companies like Ford, GM, or Diamler. Alot of companies have had to go this rought and have gone down hill because of it. If it takes BMW a few "ugly" designs to stay independent then I'm all for it. Just like I'm all for them making the x5 and x3. They are the equivilant of the 2002 or isetta which saved BMW in their times in history. My 2 cents.

The new Bimmers look much more like Hondas and Toyotas than they should :(

The new Bimmers look much more like Hondas and Toyotas than they should :(

there use to be jokes about Jap copying BMWs... so who is copying who now? :stickoutt

Another thing to keep in mind is that the automotive field is very competative. I know somoene who worked for a company that test drove cars before they were released. You know the cars with the bra's and what not that disguise them. He drove those and told me stories of Lexus purchasing brand new BMW 7 series and cutting them up into little pieces as part of researching their techknowlegy so that Lexus could use it or build off it. With this in mind, is it not possibly that some of the Japanese companies have spys that have seen the designs for the new BMW trend and released similar designs ahead of BMW, making it appear that BMW is copying them when really its still the other way around? ITS A CONSPIRACY I TELL YOU!!!! ;)

Heck, look at the Acura RL. It looks like a slightly less bangle'd (for the lack of a better term) E60 in the rear. They are still copying them, as well as bringing ther own technology to the table. Something to think on:

In general, the asian mindset/culture is one of refinement, while the western midset/culture is one of innovation. Both present similar speeds of advancement, however, to make an acceptable product you have to have a little of both. Hence everyone copying each other. Wihout that, we would have great versions of 240z's and Corona's (not that bad of a thing) instead of what we do have from the Japanese car companies. Also, we would still have the new 5 (probably), but with some really crappy parts (maybe no decent electronics). Anyhow, this is not a comprehensive analysis or anything, just my opinion.

people buy because they love german engineering
sorry to make fun of BMW thats all we have ever had just disappointed in their new styling

Yup I agree, German engineering is awesome. :buttrock Go ze Germans
Personally i'm all over all of the new BMW's. The only time that i can't make up my mind is when i see the new 3 or 5 in pictures. When i see them in person i know i love them.

Bangle's not to blame, like another guy said. Hes only the head of design. Also if the board didn't like it, then they wouldn't let them be produced, so they are all to blame really. If you don't like there designs keep with your own car.

And hey, if they're still selling them, then thats the main point. BMW still rocks, and they are not copying Toyota or any of the Japanese cars.Just moving with the new flow of futuristic & todays design.

I inherited my 94 525i from the mother when she upgraded to a newer BMW 2 years ago - theres NOTHING budget about BMW's - new or used - parts or anything custom is expensive - people buy because they love german engineering - we got our 94 525 when we sold our 528e - we still have 96 318ti, 95 325i and the newest e46(my least favorite - only put 15k on it since we got it - bought used with 30k 2 years ago) BMW styling is timeless until they hit with this new ugly looking junk today - aka the new 3, 5, 6, 7 - yes Id take any M version - v10 pwr - but the normal "doggy HUGE heavy gaudy" models are not my style - sorry to anyone who has or likes them - its toooooo mainstream for me - before BMW was making cars to make them for people who wanted a good sporty BMW machine - now its seems to me it is for any yuppie who has enough to buy a BMW - aka the hideous new 5 - it seems BMW sold out - honestly I hate our newest BMW - 325xi - not comfy - verysmooth its still a BMW but its big - feels bigger than my car - just not for me - gotta go e34 or anything pre 99 - those were BMWs - the real BMW was my first car 82 e24 633csi - sorry to make fun of BMW thats all we have ever had just disappointed in their new styling


You are saying that you dislike the e46 also?

Im not the one to get tired of topics, but this bangle thing has been beaten to death. if you dont like the design, move on...or stay with the BMW you like. there are many cars out there to choose from. i dont think BMW is holding a gun to anyones head and say buy my cars.
So I guess it is just an accident that the 5 series went from being Car and Driver's "Best car ever tested" To number 5 on the list of luxury sport sedans. The Infiniti M45 beat it out for crying out loud! A car with a completely plastic interior. Whatever. Keep drinking the Koolaid and watch one of the best car marques end up like GM. Maybe I need to invest ing a 2003 540 and wharehouse it for a few years. It may be one of the last true BMWs made.

I does not matter who designed the new BMWs. Whoever it is - they fucked up

I does not matter who designed the new BMWs. Whoever it is - they fucked up

Yeah. You used to be able to tell a quarter mile away that the car was a Bimmer and now you can't (with the new ones). The look like f***ing Hondas.

So I guess it is just an accident that the 5 series went from being Car and Driver's "Best car ever tested" To number 5 on the list of luxury sport sedans. The Infiniti M45 beat it out for crying out loud! A car with a completely plastic interior. Whatever. Keep drinking the Koolaid and watch one of the best car marques end up like GM. Maybe I need to invest ing a 2003 540 and wharehouse it for a few years. It may be one of the last true BMWs made.

What is a Infiniti? I've never even heard of them.. Have you got proof or this feat?
BMW won't go down unless people stop buying them, simple fact.
Also - some food for thought, BMW's shares as of May13 2005 are at 33.74 Euros per share.
They have 622,222,800 shares
times that by 33.74
= 20,993,797,272 Euros

Convert that to USD at the current rate for you Yanks
$25,273,330,316.70 (25 billion dollars)
That is how much is invested into BMW. What was that about BMW ending up like GM?
They are an established company that have been in business since 1917. They survived their plants being bombed in WW2 and they rebuilt them, I think they can handle a few people not liking their cars

I does not matter who designed the new BMWs. Whoever it is - they fucked up
:drink1:buttrock

What is a Infiniti? I've never even heard of them.. Have you got proof or this feat?
BMW won't go down unless people stop buying them, simple fact.
Also - some food for thought, BMW's shares as of May13 2005 are at 33.74 Euros per share.
They have 622,222,800 shares
times that by 33.74
= 20,993,797,272 Euros

Convert that to USD at the current rate for you Yanks
$25,273,330,316.70 (25 billion dollars)
That is how much is invested into BMW. What was that about BMW ending up like GM?
They are an established company that have been in business since 1917. They survived their plants being bombed in WW2 and they rebuilt them, I think they can handle a few people not liking their cars

I see you are in New Zealand, you may not be aware of the Infiniti as car makers tend to use different names in other parts of the world. Infiniti is the luxury line of Nissan/Datsun motors. As for proof, read the sport sedan reviews in Car and Driver, I did make one mistake, the 530 was rated sixth, not fifth. As for GM, you may not know this but at one time and for many years, General motors was the largest company in the entire world. They are now on the verge of bankruptcy, probably because of attitudes like some I have seen in this thread where people think if they rant about how good the line is, or how big the company is, the problems will take care of themselves.
I guess time will determine who is right about this one.

Here is the link to the reviews.

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=9391&page_number=1

I see you are in New Zealand, you may not be aware of the Infiniti as car makers tend to use different names in other parts of the world. Infiniti is the luxury line of Nissan/Datsun motors. As for proof, read the sport sedan reviews in Car and Driver, I did make one mistake, the 530 was rated sixth, not fifth. As for GM, you may not know this but at one time and for many years, General motors was the largest company in the entire world. They are now on the verge of bankruptcy, probably because of attitudes like some I have seen in this thread where people think if they rant about how good the line is, or how big the company is, the problems will take care of themselves.
I guess time will determine who is right about this one.

Here is the link to the reviews.

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=9391&page_number=1

Thanks for that, its just like Honda is called Acura in your country.
Will read the review.

I inherited my 94 525i from the mother when she upgraded to a newer BMW 2 years ago - theres NOTHING budget about BMW's - new or used - parts or anything custom is expensive - people buy because they love german engineering - we got our 94 525 when we sold our 528e - we still have 96 318ti, 95 325i and the newest e46(my least favorite - only put 15k on it since we got it - bought used with 30k 2 years ago) BMW styling is timeless until they hit with this new ugly looking junk today - aka the new 3, 5, 6, 7 - yes Id take any M version - v10 pwr - but the normal "doggy HUGE heavy gaudy" models are not my style - sorry to anyone who has or likes them - its toooooo mainstream for me - before BMW was making cars to make them for people who wanted a good sporty BMW machine - now its seems to me it is for any yuppie who has enough to buy a BMW - aka the hideous new 5 - it seems BMW sold out - honestly I hate our newest BMW - 325xi - not comfy - verysmooth its still a BMW but its big - feels bigger than my car - just not for me - gotta go e34 or anything pre 99 - those were BMWs - the real BMW was my first car 82 e24 633csi - sorry to make fun of BMW thats all we have ever had just disappointed in their new styling

I think this is pretty much a pointless debate. Because tastes and preferences are subjective, everyone is going to have a different opinion. It's like saying that all the music on the radio during high school/college had merit/value and everything on the radio today sucks. The debate becomes more about emotion and less about reason.

The bottom line is that BMW is a car company that is in business to turn a profit. They are not in business to cater to all of the purists out there. Therefore, not everyone will be 100% content and satisfied with their designs.

If the post '99 BMW's don't do it for you, then sell them and buy something else that meets your various criteria for ownership. There are plenty of pre-'99 BMW's for sale, sell your 325XI and find another E24.

all I know is BMW is getting all kinds of awards for their engines,but NOT for styling.Reminds me of the girl with the best breasts in high-school who looked like a basset hound. :)

Yeah but they're selling like hotcakes. this just appeared in my email:

BMW is reporting that the first half of 2005 was the most successful in its history with an all-time high number of monthly sales recorded this June. According to this report, outstanding design and innovation constitute the basis for their market success. For more information, visit http://en.red-dot.org/1430.html

Not that sales = quality when it comes to design (which I painfully live every day as a product designer) but at least the company is healthy and vibrant. The z4 is the best bangle IMO except for that damn vertical crease on the sides.

The Car and Driver test sucked. The BMWs are more expensive than the Japanese competitors (like they always have been) and thus you don't get the same configuration for your money. Had they tested a sport package 545 against the M45 I think it might have been a different story. If you want to tell me that most buyers look at cars based on price, I will agree with you. However, people that want BMWs/Mercedes will buy them because of the status. Lets face it folks, those two names still carry a brighter torch then Infiniti/Acura/(maybe) Lexus.

The styling debate has been beaten to death. Just for one moment think about what people said about the E36 when it replaced the E30. BMW has been through styling/handling missteps before (E31, 318ti) and has done just fine for itself. Wait 5 years. See what people are saying about the cars then. BMW has the uncanny ability to initially put off the enthusiast sector and then reel them back in because the cars age so well. Try to find any company (german, japanese or otherwise) that does this. A well kept E36 coupe still turns heads. Does an IS300 or Infiniti G20/I30 even come close? Nope. Yet the IS300 was the supposed "BMW Killer". I think we'll see the same thing happen as the current crop of sport sedans ages.

all I know is BMW is getting all kinds of awards for their engines,but NOT for styling.Reminds me of the girl with the best breasts in high-school who looked like a basset hound. :)

Yes, BMW have won awards for design.
See thread http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385486

And Alan, Great write up, i couldn't agree with you more.

I don't know about you guys.... but i like the new 5.... I currently have E39 and looking to upgrade to '04 and up 5er... i love the iDrive.... :redspot

Hey guys, sold the E36 in April. I got a '05 G35C b/c I thought it was a lot better buy for the money than a 330. I actually got more compliments on my 328i b/c it had a spoiler and everyone thought it was an M. Half the time you get compliments b/c they think your car is something else, the rest b/c its a bimmer. My new car is twice is fast and doesn't catch wheel bearings on fire daily. I have to say, as a car enthusiast, I love the late 90s-last generation 3 series, but they are getting old and I dont think id get half the compliments b/c people know how old it is, this being 2005. Most people are idiots and don't know anything about cars anyways.

"That a mercedes? D@mn, you must be rich folk!"

How much more are antique cars worth comparatively now vs. when they were ten years old? RIP classic BMW design. Wtf, no sad smilies?

I'm staying with my e34 - just keep rebuilding - waiting for my m50 to blow and then Im just goin to do a v8 conv. or get a motor built - really havent driven anything I remotely like - hate the new interiors of the BMW's dont handle too well without mods - they jsut are not sporty - the only thing I came close to buying was what I had for a little bit but then got rid of when turbo blew - 944 turbo - cool little car - fast as balls too- other than this car I dont think Id want any other BMW - of course I could be tempted with any new porsche - esp the gt3

Id even settle for a Lambo Murciellago or Gallardo