My wife and I currently own an S2000, and in the last couple of months, my wife's parents have become exceedingly more interested in buying a little roadster for weekend driving and the like. Now me being a little biased towards the S2000 since i own one, i figured a good outlet to find out some pro's and con's was here, with some Z4 owners since a majority of the time, i cant get anything that isnt EXTREMELY biased from other S2000 owners...and being a Bimmer owner myself as well, i was hoping to get some help here...

Basically this is what im looking at...

- How these cars fair in performance against each other? I can tell by looking at hard #'s online that they are very close, and based on that it would probobly come down to driver, but from a Z4 owners point of view (even better if you've driven an AP2 S2000...2004-2005), how would you compare the way they feel? Does the additional torque make a load of difference? Is the Z4 more road friendly because of its less "peaky" powerband?

- Interior room...obviously the S2000 is TINY. And figuring the Z4 was a little more luxury oriented, i was curious, for a guy thats 6'4...240lbs (my father in law is about the same), how does it fair...because the S2000 is simply a cramped chore at times to drive if the trip is over about 30-45min.

- Luxury...obviously the bimmer is going to be more luxury oriented than the pretty much raw S2000, extended features with our car were power windows, power door locks, cd player, and various little trim pieces (interior wise)...HID's, LED tail lights, 17" rims and duel outlet exhaust (which is kind of pointless yes...but it does look nice). What kind of things does the Z4 offer outside of that...things like navigation, climate control (digital) and things like that are things im curious about...

...overall, i know price wise these cars are pretty far apart, but given thier chassis, performance and overall appeal, they are what her parents are interested in, and both cars to me seem like good choices, which is why id like to get a little more knowledge about the Z4 so im not so knowledge biased with the Honda.

Thanks in advance! :)

I've test driven each car once, so I am by no means an expert on the pros and cons. I am also not an auto-crosser or track junkie - just a street driving enthusiast. But here's what I thought.

I really, really wanted to like the S2000. I had heard nothing but good things about it, figured that revving an engine to keep it in its powerband was fun, and for a 2nd/toy car size didn't really matter much. When I drove it, though, I have to say that I was really put off by all of the noise the engine made. I loved it when shooting up to the redline (and I have to say the digital tach was really cool), but when just driving in normal highway traffic it was just too much. Subjective, I know. It being a (relatively short) test drive, I didn't get too much opportunity to test the handling. I did travel along a mildly curvy road and felt that the suspension was firm, but not uncomfortable (but I like firm suspensions). I don't think there was any doubt in my mind, before or after the drive, that the suspension was better than me.

The Z4 (3.0), on the other hand, I thought I'd hate. I had just driven a new base Boxster (and loved it!), and figured that the Z4 would feel weak in comparison. I was completely wrong. It made wonderful noises and accelerated quickly. I believe "the numbers" on each of these cars are about equal, so it's more a question of how the car feels. Definitely there was more midrange torque in the Z4 and Boxster than in the S2000.

Out of the three cars, I'd say that the Boxster seemed to make me feel the most comfortable. Rolling on the throttle in a sweeper, I really could feel what the car was doing. The sounds coming from that car were just wonderful.

Of course, then you have to take price into account. The Boxster, with just a few options (18's, Xenons, fat steering wheel), and assuming a large (but reasonable) discount would come in around 43-45k (MSRP 48k). The Z4 as I configured it (no nav, but most other stuff) MSRP's at 45.6k, but I expect with the current incentives and just-above-invoice pricing that I could get one for 37k. The S2000, as I understand it, could be had for high 20's (call it 29k).

Personally, I think I've decided to spend the extra 8k to get into a Z4, but I don't think I could justify the extra 7k to go with the Boxster. I don't think you could go wrong with any of these cars. What it comes down to is personal preference.

Of course, I didn't test drive the Z4 2.5. It may be worth consideration, though.

Hope that helps.

In this case im pretty sure they'll be looking at the 3.0, her father has a thing for torque since he's driven alot of torquier american cars in his past and enjoys that "throw you into the seat" kind of response off the line...not that the 2.5 isnt capable, my 325 is perfectly capable of launching pretty hard...but knowing them the 3.0i (i think thats the trim line right?) will be the car in question. This though is a suprising factor since he actually loves the way our S2000 feels and drives...when i told him it had the torque of an integra almost he was shocked, and a little dumbfounded...

The Boxster is certainly an awesome car, and if it was my choice between the 3 if i didnt have to pay, i wouldnt think twice to take the Boxster without question. But price IS an issue here, as they dont want to spend that much on a new Porsche, and used, i think they'd simply assume spend as little as they can but get a good roadster. I tried to talk them into a 2001 Boxster "S" but they werent feeling the notion...so i think that car is gonna be a hard sell on them.

I can totally relate to you with the daily driving and normal traffic driving of the S2000, i myself cannot drive the car much unless its spirited sporty driving, it is my wife's daily driver and even at times i wake up to find she's taken my car, leaving me to make the daily grind in the sardine can honda, lol...but it is a fun car, and i think this is what they are looking for, is a fun car.

So i guess that would be a good thing to make clear in here too...this car will certainly not be driven daily, nor will it be taken out much outside weekend trips and maybe a nice dinner date...so i guess the "Fun Factor" has to be something to consider between the 2 cars...

Thanks for the input though...always good to read some good legitimate info...

I forgot to mention...

The salesguy at the BMW dealership was a tall guy - probably 6'3" and his associate who owns a Z4 is 6'5". Both claim to have no problems fitting (though that may be just salespeak).

About the older Boxster... I had a 99 911 a few years ago, and let's just be nice and say the interior was... basic. In fact, coming from the 99 M3 I had prior to it, it was a huge step down look-and-feel-wise. I recently tested a 2000 Boxster S and it felt like I was back in my 911. Except that it didn't have the power of the 911. The new Boxster is really quite nice inside - a big difference, and sounds better to my ears. And the base Boxster now has 240hp, comparable to the older S.

But yeah, price is a killer.

have you considered an s54 m coupe? :devillook

remember for those who crave more power you can always go FI

They are not interested really in anything outside a 2 seater roadster, and they want something newer than 2003, so the Mcoupe is (unfortunately) out of the question...and you gotta keep in mind these are 2 people about to enter into their 50's, so modification of this car is something that is not even considered, it will be left stock, wheels and all, and will probobly sit in the garage 80% of the time...so yeah, while turbo'ing a car can always bring torque and power #'s up, this isnt a car that will ever even see an intake, much less a turbo kit or supercharger.

The cars that i had in mind and suggested were...

- S2000
- Z4
- SLK
- Audi TT
- 350Z Roadster

...out of those, the 350Z was quick to be dismissed because they said it looked "pregnant" in the rear (lol, and i cant say i disagree...it looks kind of funny), the Audi TT was a strong contender until they drove it (my friend has one) and they just didnt like the all wheel drive feel it had...the benz is still considered but i convinced them that between the cars, the S2000 and Z4 are probobly the best of the bunch (since they ruled out the Boxster due to price).

I really, really wanted to like the S2000.
Me too. I test drove two S2000s, one on a perfect day, by myself, with the top down and I thought it was great... though a little too buzzy. The second time was on a cold day with my wife, with the top up it was just no fun, buzzy, cramped and noisy. We ended up picking up our 2003 Z4 3.0i instead because it was ultimately more enjoyable to drive, smoother, way more torque, better interior and less cramped. Sure a 9000RPM redline is fun for a few minutes until you realize that you need to be near that redline just to make it get out of its own way.

Yeah...the older AP1's really did need to be strung out to high heaven to really get going, which is one good plus side to the AP2 (2004+) S2000's, with the upgraded 2.2litre, higher horsepower and torque #'s, different gearing and lower redline, it makes for a little more daily friendly car (if you could call it that at all).

Luxury wise, after seeing the many features and specs on the Z4, its an obviously plus in its favor...and since performance is nearly the same, im sure the comfort will play a large part in it...you are absolutely right, with the top up, the S2000 is almost a chore to drive, since its loud and buzzy and crampt (im not one to be nervous in small inclosed spaces, but this car really makes me feel like theres just no where to go when the tops up).

Im curious though about one thing with the Z4...as far as supportive seats, how does it fair? The S2000 provides a pretty decent Recaro style adjustible seat, and it seems to hug fairly well when really pushing it into a corner at high speeds...does the Z4 lose any of that in its achievement of comfort? Does anyone have a picture of the seats? (i know i could search for it but i dont really feel like it today at work).

have you considered an s54 m coupe? :devillook

remember for those who crave more power you can always go FI

oops i meant M roadster 2002, 315hp-ish.

Well the Z4 is pretty nice as well I'd tell 'em to go for that. It might be nicer and more comfortable for longer trips

The standard seats aren't bad, but if you can find a Z4 with it, the Sport package seats have much better bolsters.

Cool, i'll keep that in mind when i help them browse around for one.

Out of curiosity, since i couldnt find the measurements online anywhere (didnt look hard...lol), how is it size wise compared to the S2000 on the exterior...are they about the same? For some reason from the pictures the Z4 actually looks smaller, but i wouldnt imagine that it is, is it?

Thanks again for the input folks. :)

I've got a picture of the standard seats here, http://www.understeer.com/z4.shtml

As I recall, I had to have the seat in the S2000 back all the way to fit comfortably, but I've got it a few inches forward in my Z4. I'm 6'2", 195lbs.

Legroom looks alot better...does the Z4 have an adjustible steering wheel? This is something that the S2000 lacks and to me, seems to have been something it really needed for people with long legs (like myself).

Yup, the Z4's wheel is adjustable. I can't remember if it's just up/down or also in/out adjustable at the moment though.

That is a deffinate plus...i cant believe how irritated i was when i found out the honda didnt have this, it was silly because its such a standard option ive come to expect in a car at that price...as they explained though since the car is run with an electronic power steering system, and an optional electronic assisted V-Spec trim line was available in japan (and all S2000's are handbuilt in japan) that they simply left it off the car.

lol...i hate to ask so many questions but i figure owners are the best to do this with, instead of having a sales guy lie to them just to get a sale...i appreciate your help man.

These are a few other features that the S2000 lacks that im curious are standard on the Z4...im beginning to really see a plus side of the Z4 over the S2000...

- Does it have electric door lock controls on the interior? S2000 has remote access door locks, but no control on the interior to unlock the doors...its easy enough to unlock both doors with the remote, but would be nice to have a button too...

- Does it have power seats? S2000 seats are fully manual adjusting...

- Does it have steering wheel mounted audio controls? The S2000 provides controls just behind the steering wheel but they are still kind of a pain.

- How is access to features on the door panel such as mirror adjustment, window up and down (or is that located in the middle?) or anything else? One thing about the S2000 is that the mirror adjustment and window up/down is so close to where the door handle is, its hard to access without changing position, that tends to get annoying when driving.

Yes, yes, no, easy :)

- How these cars fair in performance against each other? I can tell by looking at hard #'s online that they are very close, and based on that it would probobly come down to driver, but from a Z4 owners point of view (even better if you've driven an AP2 S2000...2004-2005), how would you compare the way they feel? Does the additional torque make a load of difference? Is the Z4 more road friendly because of its less "peaky" powerband?
I've only driven the 2.2L S2k, but...
There is little doubt the Z4 has a faster seat of the pants feel. Just for the big difference in torque. Handling etc, is a toss-up imo. Acceleration while on paper is more or less equal, unless you spend alot of time high in the revs, off the line I'd give the nod to the Z4 3.0i

- Interior room...obviously the S2000 is TINY. And figuring the Z4 was a little more luxury oriented, i was curious, for a guy thats 6'4...240lbs (my father in law is about the same), how does it fair...because the S2000 is simply a cramped chore at times to drive if the trip is over about 30-45min.
Personally I consider the s2k more akin to the Z3 in this regards. The Z4 is(& definitly feels) a little bit bigger.
That said I would not want to be in either car if I were 6'4 & 240, especially with the M seats. I'm 5'11, 125 lbs, and I fit perfectly in the M seats, any bigger and I would have to go with the standard seats. & if I were bigger I would think that the car would feel really cramped. It (nor any roadster really) just isn't made for a big individual.

- Luxury...obviously the bimmer is going to be more luxury oriented than the pretty much raw S2000, extended features with our car were power windows, power door locks, cd player, and various little trim pieces (interior wise)...HID's, LED tail lights, 17" rims and duel outlet exhaust (which is kind of pointless yes...but it does look nice). What kind of things does the Z4 offer outside of that...things like navigation, climate control (digital) and things like that are things im curious about...
This is more or less the #1 reason I went with the Z4 over say the S2000. Heated seats and power seats, above all else. Power is just nice, and a personal preference. But imo heated seats in a vert area must. They greatly extend the available top down cruising temperatures- not just in the late fall/winter, but also on cool spring/summer nights.
Then of course there is the standard/optional list, auto climate, extended leather, nav, xenons, sport, dif. wheels, aero parts, fully auto top, premium audio, multi-function steering wheel, etc, etc...there is quite a litany of options (though not near as many as the Boxster possess'). But basicially it is more luxurious/refined than the Honda counterpart. It sacrifices some "rawness" for convienience and comfort for every day driving.

Im curious though about one thing with the Z4...as far as supportive seats, how does it fair? The S2000 provides a pretty decent Recaro style adjustible seat, and it seems to hug fairly well when really pushing it into a corner at high speeds...does the Z4 lose any of that in its achievement of comfort? Does anyone have a picture of the seats? (i know i could search for it but i dont really feel like it today at work).
Yes & No.

The M Seats, are an immense step up in support from the base seats, which imo are pitiful You will be flung around with the base seats, as they offer very minimal lateral support. But M seats are not a common option, and I ordered my car to get them...
That said, I have not found them to be as comfortable for longer duration trips.
I drove to Indy(2 hours) in a 2.5i with base seats, and it wasn't too bad for the trip. I drove to eddyville (~1.5 hours) in a 3.0i with m seats, and was sore by the end. They do sacrifice some padding/comfort.
To me it's worth it as I don't drive cross country in my roadster.

I would never buy a z4 w/o the m seats, but if I didn't drive spirited, or drove extended trips often I would probally forego the seats.

Additionally the general concensus over @ z4um.com appears to be that those of larger proportions (be it tall/wide etc) do not find the M seats good @ all, as they are really made for smaller/average individuals. So if the primarly driver is 6'4 & 240 I probally would not get them...

Here's a pic of the M seats for some comparasion:
http://www.jdbeyer.com/carpics/othercarpics/DC400136.JPG

- Does it have electric door lock controls on the interior? S2000 has remote access door locks, but no control on the interior to unlock the doors...its easy enough to unlock both doors with the remote, but would be nice to have a button too...
yes

- Does it have power seats? S2000 seats are fully manual adjusting...
yes, though they are I believe a $1000 option

- Does it have steering wheel mounted audio controls? The S2000 provides controls just behind the steering wheel but they are still kind of a pain.
Yes...the multifunction steering wheel is standard equipment on '04-Present models.
I think you can see the button arrangement in this pic:
http://www.jdbeyer.com/carpics/othercarpics/30int.JPG

- How is access to features on the door panel such as mirror adjustment, window up and down (or is that located in the middle?) or anything else? One thing about the S2000 is that the mirror adjustment and window up/down is so close to where the door handle is, its hard to access without changing position, that tends to get annoying when driving.
easy access, though the drivers' cup holder is above it, so if your drink drips(if you have drinks in your car, I refuse to personally partly b/c of this) it may drip onto the mirror controls, on the drivers armrest below(btw the controls are directly in front of the power window buttons)... :)

How these cars fair in performance against each other? I can tell by looking at hard #'s online that they are very close, and based on that it would probobly come down to driver, but from a Z4 owners point of view (even better if you've driven an AP2 S2000...2004-2005), how would you compare the way they feel? Does the additional torque make a load of difference? Is the Z4 more road friendly because of its less "peaky" powerband?

Numbers-wise they are pretty close. However, when I drove them, the Z4 felt a whole lot faster especially during day to day driving. I'm not at umpteen thousand rpms all the time.

- Interior room...obviously the S2000 is TINY. And figuring the Z4 was a little more luxury oriented, i was curious, for a guy thats 6'4...240lbs (my father in law is about the same), how does it fair...because the S2000 is simply a cramped chore at times to drive if the trip is over about 30-45min.

I think this is going to be the same for either car. But I believe the trunk of the Z4 is a little bit better.

- What kind of things does the Z4 offer outside of that...things like navigation, climate control (digital) and things like that are things im curious about...

The Z4 has "personalized" keys - it saves your settings depending on which key is used to unlock the car. Of course, this matters most when you have power seats and mirrors. The radio and AC settings are also taken into account. You can open and close the top with the key in the driver's door lock OR (in later models) just use the transmitter to put the top up or down. I believe the biggest advantage of the Z4 is the "Dynamic Stability Control". It is amazing. I track my M3 every so often and I always play around with the Z4. I have to admit that it does a really really good job of keeping the car straight better than others save for the new Boxster S.

Also, a really good feature is the "sport" button. Essentially, turning it on "stiffens" the steering - basically reduces the amount of power steering to give a better feel for the road. But I actually prefer the "off" setting when driving around town since it makes it so much easier to drive around with the "lighter" feel to the steering. It also makes parking a bit easier.

...overall, i know price wise these cars are pretty far apart, but given thier chassis, performance and overall appeal, they are what her parents are interested in, and both cars to me seem like good choices, which is why id like to get a little more knowledge about the Z4 so im not so knowledge biased with the Honda.

I am willing to bet that they would be pretty happy with a 2.5L Z4. The only thing is that the wheels look tiny compared to the 18" on the 3.0. However, they probably won't really care about the difference in torque between the two. You probably won't notice the difference from a day to day standpoint. But as you start to rev the engine, the 3.0 does shine.

Hope it helps...and of course, I ended up with a Z4 3.0 vs. the Boxster S or S2000

Hey guys, i really appreciate the input...after reading over the stuff and letting them actually read some of the different characteristics that you guys were listing between the BMW and Honda...i think they've pretty much decided on a 3.0i Z4. Not because its a better car, but because given their age, their desire to travel alot and their size, they felt it just fit them all around better...that and they brought an interesting thought to my mind that i hadnt even thought of before they said it...since me and my wife own an S2000 already...why not get the Bimmer and have BOTH available!

It was something that i was not only happy to hear, but made alot of sense...my wife and i have the S2000, so if they ever feel like driving it out somewhere, we simply trade off cars...and i dont mind, since the Z4 is a good comperable car to our little roadster too.

So thanks again guys, i believe you sold them...and im happy about it too, since i'll have the best of both worlds available to me now!

:)