The team orders seem to be a thing of the past. Aren't you guys going to praise Ferrari for doing the right thing this time?

I'll praise Ferrari when they actually make something to justify the sticker price... When a Viper will kill ANY Ferrari at the track or strip and give $100k change (and have a much better warranty / dealer network), something's wrong.

The Lambo, with OVER 500 horsies, at least attempts to give something to the customer other than just a name...

Ferrari is like Prada handbags now... Nice, but you can get better for much less... Just everyone sees the name and says, "Ooooh.... Ahhhh..."

Ferraris have some trick hardware on them, but as a total package you have to live with... I dunno.
-keith

(and yeah, I'm tired. My hood latch quit opening, and I spent all weekend fixing that AND re-routing the crankcase vent so that it's no longer venting into the blower intake. Then the wife bitches at me for fixing it all myself...)

It was a good call but with the driver's champ in the bag it's not such a big deal they got it right this time.

Originally posted by jsp98m3
The team orders seem to be a thing of the past. Aren't you guys going to praise Ferrari for doing the right thing this time?


No team orders? I think the team orders were for Rubens to take first and Schummy to finish second to make ammends for the first fiasco. Schummy looked faster, and I believe was turning some quicker laps toward the end of the race.

Either way, it stinks.

I will praise them when the race to the finishline :devillook

(Like BMW-Williams with no teamorders..)


Keefyboy - It seems that you don't appriciate the finer points in life. A Ferrari is sooo much more than pure speed, especially on the 1/4 mile (who cares about 1/4 mile when buying a ferrari?)

The sound of the V8 in the 360 gives me goosebumps everytime!!

When you need to do the «right thing» because everybody hates your guts, you don't deserve an apology. They shouldn't even ask themselves what the right thing is, it should be the natural thing : may the best man win. Rubens should've won in Austria, and Michael at the Nurburgring. Since the opposite happened, it's all wrong.

And I'm pretty sure that Michael not getting pole positions is just another PR scam. If he doesn't get poles, it'll justify their lousy team orders and make it look like the other teams actually have a chance. «Don't go too fast in qualifying Michael, the FIA will be less suspicious if a Williams is on pole, they'll be off our backs when we tell Rubens to let you by».

They have the best car, the best driver, the best strategies. But they don't know how to properly manage the situation when Michael is second. If he is, it's because he deserves to be. In Austria, they could at least have «forgotten» to put enough fuel in Rubens' car, rather than tell him to brake 100 feet short of the finish line.

They killed the sport that day, and they'll never, ever get my respect back. I watched F1 for 8 years. I don't watch it anymore.

Ferrari was lapping 2 seconds faster than the rest of the field, and have a new engine package coming out soon - with more HP of course... Kinda like watching the Lakers mow through NJ Nets.

:devillook

Interesting Read....



F1-Schumacher and Ferrari prepare for FIA hearing
2002-06-24 07:41:25 GMT (Reuters)

By Alan Baldwin

NUERBURGRING, Germany (Reuters) - Ferrari's Michael Schumacher has stretched his Formula One championship lead to a massive 46 points but it could shrink again within days.

The world champion's second place in Sunday's European Grand Prix, behind triumphant Brazilian team mate Rubens Barrichello, took his tally to 76 points from a possible 90.

His nearest rival, brother Ralf at Williams, has just 30 points with eight races remaining. Ferrari have 102 points to the 57 of Williams.

The title chase may seem to be over but Schumacher, Barrichello and Ferrari must now turn their thoughts to a meeting of the FIA's World Motor Sport Council in Paris on Wednesday.

The hearing was called after Ferrari sparked worldwide outrage last month by ordering Barrichello to let Schumacher past in the final metres of the Austrian Grand Prix.

Schumacher, well on the way to his record-equalling fifth world title, then broke protocol by pushing his team mate to the top of the podium for him to accept the winner's trophy.

BAN SPECULATION

The Nuerburgring paddock was full of speculation about what, if any sanctions, might be applied with suggestions ranging from a race ban, points deductions or a fine.

"The FIA's credibility is very much on the line here," said one source close to the governing body, indicating that the outcome had to be seen as fair and considered.

What seems certain is that Ferrari cannot expect the passing of time, any more than what happened on Sunday, to alter the world body's response to what happened in Austria.

However, any punishment is likely to focus on the breach of podium protocol rather than Ferrari's controversial, but not illegal, use of 'team orders'.

Such orders were seen again on Sunday, but with an ironic twist in Barrichello's favour.

This time it was effectively an order to Schumacher not to try and overtake.

"After the second pit stop the team said drive home the race...that was the order to both of us to just drive a safe race and drive it home," said Schumacher.

Ferrari had presented the Austrian decision as a reflection of their own paranoia, the feeling that the championship could still be lost through misfortune and that Schumacher needed every point.

By allowing the German, who was right on Barrichello's tail on Sunday for the closing laps, to stay second in Germany, Ferrari came across as far more confident that the title was won and that the dropped four points would not be crucial.

BLATANT ACT

Cynics could always argue that, with the hearing looming, they were never going to antagonise the authorities with another blatant act. But more subtle forms of manipulation were not seen either.

Both drivers had smooth pit stops, coming and going in almost identical times, and Barrichello felt he was fighting on equal terms.

Schumacher, who attends an FIA event in Cologne on Tuesday to promote road car safety developments, would not comment on what might happen on Wednesday.

But he said a month had made a considerable difference to Ferrari's thinking, adding: "I think the points situation was quite a different one in these days than it was in Austria because nobody sort of knew how the season would develop and we are obviously in a much more comfortable situation now.

At a post-race news conference he was asked if the championship was in the bag.

"Am I champion now? I wish to say that but it is not," he replied. "We go step by step closer to it but until it is the case there is no point thinking too much about it.

"People have sometimes certain ideas but I think that we were simply not at the time arrogant enough to think that it is so easy to win this championship.

"I don't want to say now we are arrogant but we have quite substantially more of a points difference."

Found that on BMWWilliams website....Wonder why?:devillook

WTF happened to williams... they got blown away off the line! last I heard, the BMWs still made more power YET, they were 3-4 before the end of the first lap after startign 1-2. hell, JPM lost the drag to #1 from the pole!

whatever the performance of ferrari, it was still sad what they did in austria.

The speculations about Williams poor performance is that the chassis is forcing them to run with a lot of downforce, thus losing out in laptimes. (Not able to make use of the highpowered engine)..

But at Nurburgring it looked like the car was setup very wrong, it handled almost like a minardi...:dunno

I seem to recall that nobody was very happy with the FW24's handling this
weekend (which surprised me when we got the Williams front row) and have to
agree that it was looking pretty ugly.

I'm just waiting for my boy to catch a break. MS gifting poles ... now, that's an
interesting idea, but JPM had two in the bag before the team orders came through, didn't he?

It was really weird seeing the FW24 seem power-hungry and get nipped at by
McLaren so much, too. Well, it was about time that the Silver Arrow boys started
to get their act together anyway.

I'm still picking up my "What Would Montoya Do?" license plate frame tomorrow. ;) Off to play EA's F1 2002 ... hopefully I'll manage to find a little more room if I go into a turn with Coulthard ...

Ferrari has built a superior team. I commend Ferrari for taking several painstaking years to build a dominant team. Good on them.

However, I'm not a fan of the Ferrari team for several reasons.

The team fields two cars per race, but their efforts are geared totally toward making one driver the champion, M. Schumacher. Barrichello is a designated Number 2 driver; says so in his contract. This, to me, goes against the spirit of true competition. True competitors (F1 drivers especially) naturally strive to be the best. To sign up as a designated Number 2 goes against the true spirit of being number one.

Put another way, Ferrari has made Barrichello their whore, paid for his timely, dutiful, skilled services, but he is "allowed" to win only if it doesn't threaten M. Schumacher's chances. So, Ferrari and M.S. get to shoot their wad, and they send Rubens home with blueballs. This to me is total B.S.

I don't fault Rubens for signing with the number one team. He gets to drive the best cars on the grid, and he draws a decent paycheck. He's a supporting member of a World Champion team. And perhaps he's biding his time in the hopes of eventually emerging from M. Schumacher's shadow, to one day be his own champion. But his future is determined not by his performance, but by factors beyond his control.

Reference this points chart for the following paragraphs (http://jsp.formula1.com/f1archives/index.jsp?l=1&x=7&s=1&o=0&y=2002)

Just look at Austria a few weeks ago. What a goat-rope. And it wasn't like M.S. was in a tight race for points. Earning 10 points vs 6 points; 54 points versus 50; the next closest was JPM with 27 points! If M.S. wants the points so badly, let's see him DRIVE and EARN them.

Oh, and what a pitiful attempt to save face after the fact. Only when greeted by jeers and boos after climbing from his car in false victory did the emotionally immature MS truly grasp the gravity of how team orders had spoiled the spirit of competition. Sure as sh!t, MS was fully prepared to stand on the top of the podium, accept the trophy, and gloat in victory, oblivious that his victory was at the expense of RB, the sport, and the fans.

And what if, for some reason, M.S. wasn't able to race after Austria? Then where would Ferrari be? RB would have just 12 points (16 if the team had allowed him to keep his much-deserved first place in Austria). BMW-Williams would be sitting pretty, having encouraged BOTH their drivers to compete for the championship; RAlf with 23 points, JPM with 27.

And today, it could be a tight 4-way battle between:

Ralf 30 points
JPM 27 points
DC 27 points
RB 26 points

with some more points thrown in accounting for the absence of MS:

Ralf 33
DC 31
RB 28
JPM 27

How exciting!! This point truly illustrates my opinion of how MS has detracted from the sport.

And I have trouble respecting M. Schumacher. The guy will never be known for good sportsmanship. Witness his attempts to purposefully crash in to Villenueve and end Jacque's chances for the championship several seasons ago.

How about his habit of slicing across the track to cut off other drivers? I witnessed firsthand his attempt to cut off JPM at the start in Malaysia this year. I was ecstatic when JPM just drove AROUND MS, on the OUTSIDE of Turn 1. MS had the F1 community so blinded that the stewards penalized JPM when MS "understeered" into him. After that JPM DROVE his ass to a commendable second place from the back of the grid.

And that's anther quality MS lacks. JPM DRIVES for every win. He applies his skill to EARN results. Schumi prefers to get pole, then block, or cut off, those behind him.

Among other things, M. Schumacher's notorious habit of blocking demonstrates his uncaring for true competition, disregard for fellow drivers, and, worst of all, his willingness to bastardize the honor of the sport.

MS was an emotional infant in the aftermath of Sept 11 last season. He debated sitting out the next race (bet the thought wouldn't have crossed his mind if he hadn't already had the championship mathematically sewn up, eh?) He even tried to convince the other drivers to "take it easy" going into the first corner of Monza. I loved Eddie Irvine's retort, "I'm paid to race, and that's exactly what I'm going to do." And the fans want to see a race, not a bunch of p*ssyfooting into the first turn just because the reigning World Champion is feeling emotionally insecure at the moment.

Originally posted by Phantom
I loved Eddie Irvine's retort, "I'm paid to race, and that's exactly what I'm going to do." And the fans want to see a race, not a bunch of p*ssyfooting into the first turn just because the reigning World Champion is feeling emotionally insecure at the moment.


Respect for Irvine just pegged itself up another few notches.
:buttrock

I don't doubt that MS has superior talent. Yes, he leads the points race by a phenomenal margin. Yes, he's broken many long-standing records and will probably break more. Yes, he is an awesome talent matched with outstanding machinery and an incredible organization geared toward his success.

In my eyes, no, he is not a good sportsman. No, he doesn't care for the honor of the sport, the spirit of competition. He cares for little else besides his own safety and winning at any cost. In my opinion all his acknowledged talents amount to nothing without strength of character.

When he retires he may be remembered for having broken many records, having won many races and championships. He won't be remembered for his character, he won't be remembered for enhancing the sport. And he hasn't earned my respect as a sportsman.

Take Austria, again, for example. Ferrari's team orders snatched RB's victory and gave it to MS. Those extra points weren't earned by MS. He didn't WIN them. The result was fixed.

The 11 teams compete for the Constructor's Championship. Every member on the team, in the end, would share the Constructor's Championship. Both drivers (and test driver), the mechanics, engineers, sponsors, pit crew, managers, all share in the glory. They are ALL champs as part of the winning team. That is the purpose of the Contstructor's Championship: to reward TEAMwork.

How does the Austria result affect the Ferrari TEAM? Does it matter whether RB or MS finishes first? No. Either way, Ferrari, the team, still earns 16 points. To gear everything toward making MS champion, to fix the result so early in the season when there is no demonstrated need for 4 extra points, is against the spirit of competition. They should change the name from the Ferrari team to the Michael Schumacher team, because that is their true objective.

Here's a better way to illustrate my point. What if "Austria" happened instead during the final races of the season? What if MS needed extra points to secure the championship? What if RB had an opportunity to yield to his teammate, sacrificing his hard-earned finishing position to help MS? I could find definite honor in that deed, and I bet all the fans would respect it as well. RB and MS would both be cheered for their efforts. The team and both drivers would have fought hard for the season to earn the sacrifice opportunity.

I bet toward the end of the season MS will help RB secure a good place in the driver's championship. That goes along with the spirit of competition in much the same way as the above example. But to rob RB of those points so early in the race may even jeopardize RB's chances of placing well at the end of the season. In Austria MS already had 44 points, and RB only had 6!!!
Montoya had 23.
Ralf had 20.
If Ferrari wants their drivers to finish 1-2 in the championship, shouldn't they have allowed RB to keep his earned 10 points??!!?? It seems to me RB needed 4 extra points much more than MS.

Originally posted by jsp98m3
Aren't you guys going to praise Ferrari for doing the right thing this time?

Ferrari have enough people tounging their balls, they don't need my praise.

Why should we praise them for doing the right thing? That's like me telling you "Way to go! You didn't rape or murder one person today, keep up the good work!"

The people who deserve credit are all the other drivers who go out there every fortnight and put forth their best effort, knowing that they will ultimately be dominated by the big red machine.