Well, from rip off Install Times, to horrible looking Dynos... The car is finally at a place that it can get worked on properly.

First I must say, I was a little quiet because I was around people I didn't know. However, that didn't stop the hospitality. Before an hour goes by, I see myself dying because the car gets on the Dyno and the AFRs are still ugly. However, from the first Dyno a few months back, its deff an much better.

As soon as we saw this, we did a very easy second pull to make sure it wasn't a fluke, off course data showed the AFRs are still everywhere.


I will show pictures of the first tune:

http://home.gwu.edu/~chiragp/cars/M3/EuropeanPerformance/Mustand%20Dyno%20-%20Before%20Tuning.GIF

http://home.gwu.edu/~chiragp/cars/M3/EuropeanPerformance/Time,MPH,HP,RPM,Lambda%20-%201.GIF

http://home.gwu.edu/~chiragp/cars/M3/EuropeanPerformance/Time,MPH,HP,RPM,Lambda%20-%202.GIF

http://home.gwu.edu/~chiragp/cars/M3/EuropeanPerformance/Time,MPH,HP,RPM,Lambda%20-%203.GIF


The Dyno after we got the larger injectors (36lb @ 3 BAR, 42lb @ 3.5 BAR), the larger HFM kit from Eurosport, and new software from RMS. Just so it doesn't become a good tuner versus bad: Osh did this as a freebie for me. He is being very helpful through this process. I only gave him one try because I didn't have the chance to redyno and give him the ECU again. I decided to go to ICS because they can have Tuning and Dyno done at one facility, and quite frankly have been very helpful to this point.

Please don't turn this into a Bad or Good Tuner threads... It is a "Look my car isn't going to blow up hopefully and will get working now that its at the BMW Guru's House of Hope" Thread!!

http://home.gwu.edu/~chiragp/cars/M3/ICS/Patel-E36-M3-RMS-Bad-Tune.jpg

To Osh's defense, their seems to be an HFM Code that keeps poping up. This could mean the wrong 3.5" HFM was used when programming or it could mean that their was air leaks in the intake. The second is VERY LIKELY due to the crappy intake. Osh is again been very helpful and sent me a new intake elbow out of the S/C for cost plus S&H.

With the addition of good tuning, possibly plasma injection coils, and an intake elbow with no leaks, and the 11psi setup, we may see dome good numbers. I'm hoping for over 400rwhp but we'll see if I am lucky. I might consider 12psi if things work out well. Also, RaceLogic would most likely be going in. As for the slipping clutch under semi hard throttle, I'm sure a spec 3 with the UUC Stage 2 will be the way to go unless George has something up his sleeve. and if the OBDII BBTB is ready in time, then maybe that too.

I'll wait for more details from Brian and George...

FYI I did get a ride in 500hp OBDII Turbo... I've driven 2 Twin Screws... (S55 and Comptech NSX...) This turbo deff has some grunt to it.... Then again Comptech NSX was only at 6psi... and the S55 makes about 500wrhp anyways stock...

Go ahead and tell me how lucky I am in the car is still in one peice :D

Hi - Nice to meet you on friday.. hope you didn't have too much trouble getting home.


You have a nicely modded car, and it will run awesome once it's properly tuned... I esp. love the custom vented hood.. :)

Anyhow, wishing you the best.. and I'm sure George will take care of you. Let's meet up once your car is done!


-Dave

s55 doesn't make 500whp stock. They are more in the range of 425-450 whp.

As for the slipping clutch under semi hard throttle, I'm sure a spec 3 with the UUC Stage 2 will be the way to go...

One of our customers with a supercharged/NOS'd E46 M3 running the same pressure plate and clutch facing as you would with the UUC Stage2 flywheel and new UUC Stage3 clutch just dyno'd 486hp, 381lb-ft. He's been using the setup for a few months already, no problems. That setup has about another 35% capability beyond that.

Hi - Nice to meet you on friday.. hope you didn't have too much trouble getting home.


You have a nicely modded car, and it will run awesome once it's properly tuned... I esp. love the custom vented hood.. :)

Anyhow, wishing you the best.. and I'm sure George will take care of you. Let's meet up once your car is done!


-Dave

I agree, it was nice to meet you too Dave. A few of the exterior touches deff need to be finished. But the hood was one of my more favorites :buttrock


s55 doesn't make 500whp stock. They are more in the range of 425-450 whp.


Actually that is my typo. It makes about 500 crank stock (493 to be exact.) But we had a larger TB from this company in Germany, Larger Crankshaft pulley, and custom Software by RennTech good for about 600/600 CRANK...

Rob, I would agree the stock clutch (e34 M5) with the UUC Stage II is a nice combo. I do beleive the car even under its modest power will need the Spec clutch or similar.

BMW... Brakes My Wallet :D

That's the worst A/F plot I've ever seen.

http://img106.echo.cx/img106/1491/rms9mz.jpg
:lol :lol :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Osh is the man! :buttrock

I can't wait to see what this looks like after ICS and Karl get ahold of the ECU. Good god man!

That's the worst A/F plot I've ever seen.

kenny, you must not have seen mine on the first pull we did over at ICS, curve looked like a damn heart attack!

http://img106.echo.cx/img106/1491/rms9mz.jpg
:lol :lol :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Osh is the man! :buttrock

I can't wait to see what this looks like after ICS and Karl get ahold of the ECU. Good god man!
This car is getting a different treatment. You shall all wait for the results, then question. :)

http://img106.echo.cx/img106/1491/rms9mz.jpg
:lol :lol :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Osh is the man! :buttrock
!

Now... THATS an AFR!!!!!!!
:lol :eyecrazy

This car is getting a different treatment. You shall all wait for the results, then question. :)
:lol George, if only they knew...if only they knew :D This car has good things ahead for it.

Charlie, good meeting you the other day, I'm very excited to see your car around the shop, and am glad that you finally got it somewhere that it can shine...

This car is getting a different treatment. You shall all wait for the results, then question. :)

If only I didn't get stuck with the S/C shit to begin with.... DAMNIT after being in that turbo... ARGHHH


Any thoughts on putting a Turbo (or even twin...) on the NSX?!? Thats a project not for now, but maybe a year from now :D


Again, I an only wait and see what magic is done :redspot

:lol George, if only they knew...if only they knew :D This car has good things ahead for it.

Charlie, good meeting you the other day, I'm very excited to see your car around the shop, and am glad that you finally got it somewhere that it can shine...

It was nice to meet you too. Always loved putting faces to the names on BF. All I can say, is I would not be surprised if my internals need work again after some of these dyno pulls. Luckily I haven't driven past 4,000 RPM on the car.

I guess we'll wait and see.

http://img106.echo.cx/img106/1491/rms9mz.jpg
:lol :lol :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Osh is the man! :buttrock

I can't wait to see what this looks like after ICS and Karl get ahold of the ECU. Good god man!

It could very easily look that way from first glance... but with the Intake not holding presuure before it gets to the S/C, I'm sure the HFM is just reading all sorts of signals that aren't true...

I have the intake elbow from Osh, and am shipping it out to ICS.

Charlie.

This car is getting a different treatment. You shall all wait for the results, then question. :)
Sorry George, that's what I meant. I was laughing at Osh and then stating that I can't wait to see what it looks like when you guys get done with it. It will probably be near perfect.

Sorry George, that's what I meant. I was laughing at Osh and then stating that I can't see what it looks like when you guys get done with it. It will probably be near perfect.
Hey Camren, nothing was reflected towards your comment, I know you and all others where laughing @ the graph. But im taking a different approach on this car im using diff software, and my comment was till its done and perfected then everyone can ask all the questions they want as far as tuning aspect goes. :)

Hey Camren, nothing was reflected towards your comment, I know you and all others where laughing @ the graph. But im taking a different approach on this car im using diff software, and my comment was till its done and perfected then everyone can ask all the questions they want as far as tuning aspect goes. :)

;)

http://img106.echo.cx/img106/1491/rms9mz.jpg


Gawd...no comment...

Gawd...no comment...

I don't think people can make comments. By far my heart was pounding when I saw the AFR increase...

carcrazed4life: which car is this? the purpleish one?

carcrazed4life: which car is this? the purpleish one?

No, that's Ledlum's car. Charlie's car came there this past Friday, so you haven't seen it yet. It's black, has OZ superlegerras, black kidneys, LED rears, delaware plates. Easy enough to spot.

No, that's Ledlum's car. Charlie's car came there this past Friday, so you haven't seen it yet. It's black, has OZ superlegerras, black kidneys, LED rears. Easy enough to spot.

Had to mention those Cheesey LED rear lights :stickoutt ... It is actually easy to spot, because not everyone has seen a flat black M3 E36 Coupe... Their are almost always Cosmos Black...

And of course the Hood :D

Can't wait to get the new head lights, tail lights, and side lights in... (After I pass inspection off course...)

kenny, you must not have seen mine on the first pull we did over at ICS, curve looked like a damn heart attack!

Andrew, glad it's all sorted out now. That previous AF plot looks like it's a preface to a story about engine destruction!

charlie, i stopped by ICS today on my way home to maryland. lemme tell you, that car looks hot! and i love the LED's. can't wait to see it done!

Thanks. I've tried to keep it a sleeper, certain aspects are just tough to do though.

I'm glad its at a place where it can finally shine. Its so close to done, except I'm not there...thats the biggest frustration.

Thanks again for the kind words. Lets just hope it doesn't need more heart surgery :D

Thanks. I've tried to keep it a sleeper, certain aspects are just tough to do though.

I'm glad its at a place where it can finally shine. Its so close to done, except I'm not there...thats the biggest frustration.

Thanks again for the kind words. Lets just hope it doesn't need more heart surgery :D
you'll be very happy once its done, no more BS. plus George is a great guy to deal with.

When would ICS get a branch in Hong Kong? you know here got the most density of cars in the world, BMW is the 1st to 2nd big best seller.

Futhermost, Hong Kong do not have proper tuning people ever....all do things in the dark......

I was one of the victim..... :(

It wouldn't help if they opened a location anywhere else. If you didn't have the capabilities and skills required to do the job, its doesn't matter what name you carry. ICS could be SCI for all we care, its the people that make the shop...

Charlie.

When would ICS get a branch in Hong Kong? you know here got the most density of cars in the world, BMW is the 1st to 2nd big best seller.

Futhermost, Hong Kong do not have proper tuning people ever....all do things in the dark......

I was one of the victim..... :(

That's the point..... :alright

New Intake ELBOW arrived at ICS ala VF Engineering Style. I guess RMS must have got VF Engineering's new Supplier.

New Intake ELBOW arrived at ICS ala VF Engineering Style. I guess RMS must have got VF Engineering's new Supplier.

Yeah, I was looking at that today and scratching my head...didn't look like what their other systems looked like...

Yeah, I was looking at that today and scratching my head...didn't look like what their other systems looked like...

I was scratching it too, and even looked to see if I saw VF anywhere, but its all RMS.

That's a reach, scratching my head all the way from DE :stickoutt

And just 'cause you can't see VF anywhere doesn't mean that someone over at RMS was a little bit, oh, shall we say, 'inspired' ;)

Believe it or not, that new intake design has been in the works for many months now.

Believe it or not, that new intake design has been in the works for many months now.

I don't doubt the design side. I've seen many American Muscle cars use a very similar shape. Its just not the same compared to what we are use to seeing with the RMS kit.

and the fact that it bears a startlingly close resemblence to the VF Engineering kit...

ICS could be SCI for all we care, its the people that make the shop...

Charlie.


That would be great new meaning for SCI. Better than my current meaning SPINAL CORD INJURY. Maybe there is a cure and maybe George is behind it! At least my car helps me forget. It's the only car in the USA with my kind of hand controls, well me and Alex Zanaradi.

New Intake ELBOW arrived at ICS ala VF Engineering Style. I guess RMS must have got VF Engineering's new Supplier.
Any pics of the new elbow?

come for a ride in Nick's car, the thrust in that thing is so great that it just might fix you up! :D...maybe a hope....

and pics of the hand controls, I'm curious about this, especially the clutch controls...

And as far as the elbow goes, look at a pic of the VF Engineering setup's plastic elbow...that's pretty much what it looks like...I saw it today...even signed for it :D

That's a reach, scratching my head all the way from DE :stickoutt

And just 'cause you can't see VF anywhere doesn't mean that someone over at RMS was a little bit, oh, shall we say, 'inspired' ;)
hey competition is good for the market. Look what happened when Osh copied the Dinan s/c.

Amazing Results!!

....

and pics of the hand controls, I'm curious about this, especially the clutch controls...

Sorry seriously off topic...

I don't have pics of my exact car, it is currently at my parnets. here is the knob for the clutch control. there is a potetionmeter in the knob that controls a servo motor that pull a cable for the clutch. The accelerator is controlled by the ring under the wheel, you pull it for the throttle and it is a drive by wire that activates a motor like the cruise control unit. Notice the knob in Zanardi's BMW.

Competition, when it is based on copying of someone else's intellectual property, whether protected or not, just plain sucks.

It is not good for anyone. If you look back in the original Eurosport TS thread, you will see where this is discussed. In the case of that discussion, I must completely agree with Jim Conforti, when he said that once the innovators get their stuff stolen more than once or twice, they will stop innovating. In that case, everyone loses, since the copycats then have nothing to copy.

Steve

To reiterate, form follows function, and Osh had that intake tube in the works for quite some time now, to improve on the old design.

And if you look at it, it only bears a PASSING resemblance to the VF unit, that being it is flattened on top (to improve vertical clearance by using some of the horizontal dead space around the strut tower). Geometry wise, it's totally different, since the VF unit's bracketry and location is also totally different.

Trust me, I looked at the VF kits first hand at Bimmerfest this year, there's no way in hell that intake tube will work on a Dinan/RMS/ESS style Vortech kit.

Allow me to clarify, and state that I am NOT implying in any way that Osh copied this tube or anything. I am making a general statement on people implying that competition is good, even if it is due to copying!

Sorry if that was unclear!

Steve

Allow me to clarify, and state that I am NOT implying in any way that Osh copied this tube or anything. I am making a general statement on people implying that competition is good, even if it is due to copying!

Sorry if that was unclear!

Steve

There is a difference between copying and stealing. Copying is just a simple fact of the automotive world.

Competition, when it is based on copying of someone else's intellectual property, whether protected or not, just plain sucks.

It is not good for anyone. If you look back in the original Eurosport TS thread, you will see where this is discussed. In the case of that discussion, I must completely agree with Jim Conforti, when he said that once the innovators get their stuff stolen more than once or twice, they will stop innovating. In that case, everyone loses, since the copycats then have nothing to copy.

Steve


Agreed- innovators should be fairly rewarded for their creations. The problem I have is when companies MILK people due to the fact that they hold a monopoly on the market and are the only company to offer such a product.

Joe

I will agree in general to everything just stated. To use an idea and further develop is one thing. In general, straight copying (even with minor modifications) is still what it is. Many have been burned in this scenario. On the topic of R&D though, consider this. If a company spend numerous amounts of time and has a certain equipment cost in parts to gear up for production, there is a cost that is probably great percentage then just building the package itself.

I remember an old Business School study that showed if we were to buy a GM car today, roguhly $1500 of that car's price is strictly their to cover the employee's Health Care costs. Something like this is the inherent cost to do business. There is no cost of parts, or production, its a cost unrealized to all of us. Furthermore, to build cars in America and offer Jobs to Employees like GM does costs a good deal. But the fact those GM Employees don't even get great coverage to begin with here in the US compared to other countries productions and costs make GM less and less competitive. Imagine why so many factories are displacing people for robots.

It is a classic example of what most of us would see as "If I pay $25k for a Chevy Malibu or I pay $25k for a Honda Accord, I feel like the Honda Accord is MORE CAR for my money. If we count the pure parts cost AFTER R&D we would feel ripped of buying the GM car. But there are other costs which add to the price of these vehicles.

Same goes for many things in general. The kit we see as inflated, had a cost that needs to be reclaimed. What people put as a price tag on that is part of what the market can accept.

Innovators get burned as well as rewarded, and under this Country's policy (although much better then many others) will still have difficulty securing rights on intelligence due to the implied fact that not everything is expressly black and white.

Talked to George and Brian today. Car is doing very well (glad we didn't have to go back inside the engine...) Actually its making enough power that the slipping clutch was confirmed. I think we got past 350lb.ft @4500 rpm before the slippage just prevented anymore power to be put down.

With that said, we are most likely going to use George's Clutch setup. Waiting to see the dyno charts before and after the clutch and than we may possible up the boost.

Patiently waiting :D

New Intake ELBOW arrived at ICS ala VF Engineering Style. I guess RMS must have got VF Engineering's new Supplier.

Can you describe where this elbow is located? Is it between the filter and the HFM?

The one comming out of the S/C and going into the HFM.

Can you describe where this elbow is located? Is it between the filter and the HFM?

The one comming out of the S/C and going into the HFM.
Well we are still @ ICS AND YOUR CAR MADE THE BEST OF 408.8 RWHP AND 341 RWT. George has to do a some more tweaking, he is estimating 415-420 ish rwhp. This car is on pump fuel and still retains the factory catalist, (NO CAMS). He will keep all of you guys updated when it is closer to completion. :)

Well we are still @ ICS AND YOUR CAR MADE THE BEST OF 408.8 RWHP AND 341 RWT. George has to do a some more tweaking, he is estimating 415-420 ish rwhp. This car is on pump fuel and still retains the factory catalist, (NO CAMS). He will keep all of you guys updated when it is closer to completion. :)

:buttrock :eyecrazy :drool: :firedevil :thanks:

I dont know what to say but FINALLY!!!! (Its been more then 1 year!!!)

And to think, we may still bring it upto 12.5psi if it looks doable. I'm just glad I can keep this completely streetable, stock emissions friendly, and OBDII!!!

Damnit, I must be there tomorrow!

The one comming out of the S/C and going into the HFM.


Uh, HELLO? Thats the wrong direction! The HFM is BEFORE your blower, not AFTER it. So, if anything, its got to be either as I said, ie, between your Filter and your HFM OR its got to be coming OUT of your HFM and INTO your SC, like the RMS Thermoplastic Intake that Everybody has such trouble getting to stay on the supercharger, with its split plastic splayed ends. If you have an elbow coming out of your SC and going INTO your HFM, you have Big Problems :nono

Carcrazed, those are some Awsome results on 11 psi with a Vortech blower. Besides the stage II rms kit, all youve got are the euro HFM, short headers, and an OBDI manifold, is that right? Any underdrive pulleys, or other power adders?

Port and polish on the head and the 3 angle job listed in his sig as well Paul, that's always good for a few ponies.

Is this the intake your describing cause I got the first one in CF for FREE!!!!!
it has a flat top, but looks NOTHING like the VF kit.

sweet numbers crazed!

JMC

Uh, HELLO? Thats the wrong direction! The HFM is BEFORE your blower, not AFTER it....

Carcrazed, those are some Awsome results on 11 psi with a Vortech blower. Besides the stage II rms kit, all youve got are the euro HFM, short headers, and an OBDI manifold, is that right? Any underdrive pulleys, or other power adders?

I think we mean the same thing, just realtive to the wrong direction... ;)

As for anything else, just basically all the bolt ons minus the Head work. I do have UUC UDPs for pullies. Shorty Headers, nothing fancy, and the stromung exhaust which I love the sound of :D . That said, no cams, and I am very pleased with the numbers... I've always wanted to brake the 500hp @ crank, and With 17% loss assumed from crank to the wheels, about 425-430rwhp will do it. Increasing it by 1.5 psi would hopefully get me into the 450rwhp mark, or 525 crank...

I can live with both those numbers :D

Hopefully I make it up to ICS today.

What software is this car using?

I think we mean the same thing, just realtive to the wrong direction... ;)

As for anything else, just basically all the bolt ons minus the Head work. I do have UUC UDPs for pullies. Shorty Headers, nothing fancy, and the stromung exhaust which I love the sound of :D . That said, no cams, and I am very pleased with the numbers... I've always wanted to brake the 500hp @ crank, and With 17% loss assumed from crank to the wheels, about 425-430rwhp will do it. Increasing it by 1.5 psi would hopefully get me into the 450rwhp mark, or 525 crank...

I can live with both those numbers :D

Hopefully I make it up to ICS today.

Ok.. 3 angle valve job, headers, M1 manifold, underdrive pulleys, port and polished head. I dont feel so bad for my self anymore :) By my calculations, those mods are easily more than enough to account for the difference between our results. Honestly, if I werent staring down the barrel of a license suspension, Id be implementing some of these.. As for you, I think youre going to be seeing 420 whp before long, with just a software tweak. want to richen up the top just a hair. Beautiful trq result also. You should be Really Really happy.

>>Is this the intake your describing cause I got the first one in CF for FREE!!!!!<<

JMC, pretty intake... Question: does it have the same issues with its attachment to he SC, or have they implemented a new attachment method? We know the thermplastic splayed ends will flex, allowing the hose clamp to tighten them down onto the blower flange.. but im wondering about CF... I wouldnt think it would stand up to the same flexing required for this type of mount... so im curious about your experience with it. Question: In your pic, it looks like youre still running an oe 3" hfm, because I think I see a transition hose from 3" to 3.5" coming out of the hfm and joining the CF intake. Are you planning on replacing this with a 3.5"? why/why not? thanks.

I was also considering purcahsing a Porsche 993TT HFM from Steve (Stimpee) and the Green Gizmo but was wondering if it would get me anywhere further...

Thoughts.
Thanks.

What software is this car using?

OBDII Tuned by ICS/AA.

Which one of them more or less, well I'll let George or Brian answer that one.

:)

those are great numbers! congrats.... :)

those are great numbers! congrats.... :)

Thanks Dave. I agree street cars should have instant torque... but to prevent my death and others... i may be albe to live with the S/C :D

>>Is this the intake your describing cause I got the first one in CF for FREE!!!!!<<

JMC, pretty intake... Question: does it have the same issues with its attachment to he SC, or have they implemented a new attachment method? We know the thermplastic splayed ends will flex, allowing the hose clamp to tighten them down onto the blower flange.. but im wondering about CF... I wouldnt think it would stand up to the same flexing required for this type of mount... so im curious about your experience with it. Question: In your pic, it looks like youre still running an oe 3" hfm, because I think I see a transition hose from 3" to 3.5" coming out of the hfm and joining the CF intake. Are you planning on replacing this with a 3.5"? why/why not? thanks.[/QUOTE]

This is the prototype intake for the MZ3 coupe/roady. As many know the thermoplastic does not fit these cars well. Osh had sent me a couple of intakes and asked me to help work on the fitment issue, this is the final product. It fits beautifully now. It was so worth the wait!

CF cannot be clamped, so there is a silicone reducer boot on the SC side that clamps with 2 worm gears. It is extremely tight (I never had a problem with the thermoplastic coming off either).

I use the stock HFM because that was the kit I bought. I dont plan on upgrading anytime soon.

JMC

>>CF cannot be clamped, so there is a silicone reducer boot on the SC side that clamps with 2 worm gears. It is extremely tight (I never had a problem with the thermoplastic coming off either).
<<

Cool... let me ask you then.. I always felt I would have preferred a traditional silicone sleeve with two hose clamps, to connect my thermoplastic intake to the Vortech, instead of the split/splayed ends we now have. Youve seen the thermoplastic intake and the way it mounts.. Do you think your your silicone sleeve youre using with your CF version would work with the thermplastic one, slid on right over the splayed ends?

Are you using 42# inj ? Your sig says 36 but I thought you needed more for that much power.

Cool... let me ask you then.. I always felt I would have preferred a traditional silicone sleeve with two hose clamps, to connect my thermoplastic intake to the Vortech, instead of the split/splayed ends we now have. Youve seen the thermoplastic intake and the way it mounts.. Do you think your your silicone sleeve youre using with your CF version would work with the thermplastic one, slid on right over the splayed ends?[/QUOTE]

I am sure you could do it but you will have to trim the thermoplactic because the silicone boot will move it out and it wont clear the aftercooler.
I dont see why your having a problem with the thermoplastic. Clean the inside of the intake and blower intake mount with mineral spirits, then scuff up the inside of the intake where it clamps to the blower with a 80grit sandpaper (dont do it to much you dont want to remove material). That will it give it more grip. Then tighten that clamp really well. When my thermo was in I could lean on it with alot of weight and it would not budge. It sounds like its oily/dirty and your slipping because of the grime. Remember, oil drips right there from the crank vent.

Also, make sure the clamp is working properly.

JMC

The biggest problem with the old-style RMS intake tube was that unless you had the geometry just right, you were putting a load on the rigid thermoplastic and could cause it to pop off, or slide off from the bottom. Even more insidious is the fact that the unit could be nice and tight sitting in the garage, but once you put a load on the engine, torquing it on the motor mounts, the bottom might slide out for a bit, allowing unmetered/unfiltered air into the blower.

Getting it set right was usually no real problem on a regular E36, you eventually found the "sweet spot", clamped it down and forgot about it. Add Euro headlights into the mix and you have issues with getting it to the sweet spot, which get further complicated by using a bigger 3.5" HFM.

Oddly enough, using smaller 1/4" clamps instead of a wider 1/2" T-clamp helps, since the tube is held on a bit more loosely, and can sort of simulate the flex you get with silicone sleeves/elbows without forcing the tube off the narrow little Vortech intake mount.

That said, I'ma wanting one of those new tubes, CF or thermoplastic, because I'd feel a lot better knowing it's flexible grippy silicone on the blower, and the new intake looks great to boot.

When I installed my thermoplastic it was too tight to get on the blower. I heated it up with my heat gun then clamped it on. That must have caused it to conform very nice to the blower, so I never had any issues.

Sorry to hijack the thread craz.

JMC

Are you using 42# inj ? Your sig says 36 but I thought you needed more for that much power.

I use 36lb injectors. However that is measured at 3 BAR. BMWs run at 3.5 BAR, which is where the 42lb injectors come in. Technically for a BMW, this is a 42lb injector.

Don't worry about the HiJack as it really isn't.... Knowledge is power...

Thanks Dave. I agree street cars should have instant torque... but to prevent my death and others... i may be albe to live with the S/C :D

408.8 RWHP AND 341 RWT are power #s alot of us can "live with" lol! :D

when you get a dyno sheet post it up..

True... but its the area under the curve that some you turbo guys have an advantage on ;)

:lol wow... I really can't get enough of that graph!
:ausw_6

:lol wow... I really can't get enough of that graph!
:ausw_6

I Can :devillook lol, seriously I can't wait to see the new graph and the way things are coming.

-Charlie.

408.8 RWHP AND 341 RWT are power #s alot of us can "live with" lol! :D

when you get a dyno sheet post it up..
We will post the dyno sheet once its all completed and I have all the bugs worked out of it. The tuning is coming along very well, there are other issues I need to repair and properly install.

you shoulda seen those headers glow after that 408.8 hp run!!! they were straight up orange!

you shoulda seen those headers glow after that 408.8 hp run!!! they were straight up orange!

http://i18.ebayimg.com/02/i/01/f2/2e/c2_1.JPG

It looks like time for Exhaust & Header Wraps to keep those high temps going to the cat, and out of the engine bay.

You could see if Ulysses would be up to the job :lol, he somehow managed to wrap his while they were on the car...I would like to try and wrap mine somehow while they're still on the car, but that seems like it would be next to impossible to pull off...

You could see if Ulysses would be up to the job :lol, he somehow managed to wrap his while they were on the car...I would like to try and wrap mine somehow while they're still on the car, but that seems like it would be next to impossible to pull off...

Wrapping while they're still on the car is the biggest PITA you'll ever experience. When I had my 95 M3, my cousin and I did this. It took us almost 5 hours of straight up cursing and cuts all over our hands.

I don't think any one person can do this job alone while they're still on the car...that would be impossible without another pair of hands. Especially the aligning of the gasket onto the block while holding it firmly onto the block.

http://i18.ebayimg.com/02/i/01/f2/2e/c2_1.JPG

It looks like time for Exhaust & Header Wraps to keep those high temps going to the cat, and out of the engine bay.

wraps are cool! :)

Mo Powa!!

Its been a week, and thought I'd post. Last I spoke to ICS, we were trying to fix a few quirks from the original install. I will get the details soon.

As for the increasing boost, I wanted to see feedback from the Vortech S/C guys. I thought there is someone out here running 14psi on stock internals, and stock compression.

Thoughts?

yeah now try wrapping the headers when it is on a Roadster!!! lol

There was a roadster on here that was running like 14 psi. He eventually hurt the motor.

was the roadster aftercooled or not? Although 14psi is more stress on the engine than 14psi on a turbo (parasitic loss from the S/C), if the tuning is custom and done to the T (which it would be at 14psi) you don't think it could last? Although it hasn't been done before...many previously uncharted paths have been successfully traveled by George...CC's 20.8psi stock-internal 2.8 for example. If the tuning is spot-on, with a very healthy (read:rich) AFR, and relatively conservative timing (no 28 degree Osh stuff), given all the stuff he has on the car already, I don't see why it can't be done and last.

was the roadster aftercooled or not? Although 14psi is more stress on the engine than 14psi on a turbo (parasitic loss from the S/C), if the tuning is custom and done to the T (which it would be at 14psi) you don't think it could last? Although it hasn't been done before...many previously uncharted paths have been successfully traveled by George...CC's 20.8psi stock-internal 2.8 for example. If the tuning is spot-on, with a very healthy (read:rich) AFR, and relatively conservative timing (no 28 degree Osh stuff), given all the stuff he has on the car already, I don't see why it can't be done and last.
well said^^^^^^^^^^

was the roadster aftercooled or not? Although 14psi is more stress on the engine than 14psi on a turbo (parasitic loss from the S/C), if the tuning is custom and done to the T (which it would be at 14psi) you don't think it could last?

Just a note: You get a bit more wear on the motor spinning the blower, though a Vortech is pretty mild in that regard, compared to other SC's.

But 14 PSI on a turbo means 14 PSI when the boost comes on (without some electronic wastegate trickery) which puts the car in big boost through most of the RPM range. And 14 PSI on stock internals/compression with a turbo as it goes through torque peak is a recipe for bad things.

Whereas 14 PSI on a centri SC only happens for an instant before you redline, the boost at the lower RPMs is much less, and isn't working the motor as hard, and at torque peak a 14 PSI setup is probably not even making 8 PSI, which is fairly safe with stock internals/compression if there's any charge cooling.

My logic exactly...that's why I think it could work, especially if the timing is relatively conservative up top, and there's adequate spark to prevent spark blowout from the boost

Well I have seen 12psi on our setups, and I was merely thinking no more then 12.5psi.

I think we were in the ball park of 410rwhp last I checked. Taking into account bigger fuel pump, actually getting the aftercooler working better (going back to the previous install) and more tuning we were thinking 420-425 rwhp, then a bump of about 1.5psi should get me closer to the 445-450 rwhp mark... (roughly 8-9psi per .5/psi bump)

Off Course I'm not trying to make the labor hours involved on tweaking the SC to get there higher then the rewards are worth, just something to consider on the way while cleaning things up...

And exactly what is being said, on a vortech versus a turbo, boost is only on max close to higher engine speeds.

Well I have seen 12psi on our setups, and I was merely thinking no more then 12.5psi.

I think we were in the ball park of 410rwhp last I checked. Taking into account bigger fuel pump, actually getting the aftercooler working better (going back to the previous install) and more tuning we were thinking 420-425 rwhp, then a bump of about 1.5psi should get me closer to the 445-450 rwhp mark... (roughly 8-9psi per .5/psi bump)

Off Course I'm not trying to make the labor hours involved on tweaking the SC to get there higher then the rewards are worth, just something to consider on the way while cleaning things up...

And exactly what is being said, on a vortech versus a turbo, boost is only on max close to higher engine speeds.

Which is why i think a 14psi setup could actually work and last. You still have a good amount of tune left in your car. What you should ask George is if you could get the big pulley now, keep the existing tuning (I remember the AFRs looking beautiful the last run I saw, and I recall George saying that the timing was conservative on that chip), get a few runs in, then get a new tune to keep your AFRs deep in the 12s...keep the same timing probably, just add fuel.

I'll email Brian this week when I'm able to think and type, and plan this out. Need to make sure I don't go over budget, especially since I got the new clutch and flywheel instead of just using the UUC Stage 2 in there with a new Spec 3.

Only thing I am concerned about it the amount of power being drawn by the SC and its affect on boost.

Guess we will see soon.

When is your car going to be done?

Tuning is a big issue which wasn't even part of the original install, but things like the intake assembly, hoses, piping, etc...