Just thought I'd share.

Top: GC
Middle: UUC
Bottom: Stock M3

http://www.liteswap.com/merchant2/graphics/m3/frontsway.jpg

Good to see. For some reason I thought the UUC set was infinitely adjustable, like the GC. Guess not. Looks like the GC's are in my future.

J

Keep in mind though for MOST people the UUC bars are just fine. With the GC bar, you'll have to slow up entry much more or it's understeer city!

Keep in mind though for MOST people the UUC bars are just fine. With the GC bar, you'll have to slow up entry much more or it's understeer city!

That depends. On it's softest setting, it could have more steering than the UUC. It appears the GC bars are much longer on the adjustment arms for greater tuning options.

It also depends on what rear bars you are running.

From a thickness view, you could be right. That also depends on the materials used to make the bar. Thicker is not always more rigid.

Granted, I'm talking merely from a no proof standpoint since I have not used any of these aftermarket bars.

Thanks again!

J

Also remember that the thicker the bar doesnt translate to more grip. Depending on your spring rates, a big front bar may hurt your handling. From RRT, im running 850 front and around 350 rear (true coilovers) and am running eibachs. My brother on the other hand runs the HUGE MASR bars with 875front and 1000 rear and it is ALL over the place. His suspension needs a little more dialing in for sure.

Most of the guys I know don't really know what an anti-sway bar is for. they know what it does, but not how it should be used for tuning.

There is an optimal amount of body roll that you need to increase lateral grip. Too much and you reduce grip, too little you reduce grip as well.

At any rate, I'm sure both the UUC and GC bars are great for street/track cars. Chances are, the average buyer will never use the adjustability of either kit, but it is nice to have for those of us who will.

850/350 sounds like a push in the making, but if you can rotate the car I'm sure it's very driveable. 850/1000 sounds like a car on the edge that would be twitchy, but loose is fast in many situations.

J

Most of the guys I know don't really know what an anti-sway bar is for. they know what it does, but not how it should be used for tuning.

There is an optimal amount of body roll that you need to increase lateral grip. Too much and you reduce grip, too little you reduce grip as well.

At any rate, I'm sure both the UUC and GC bars are great for street/track cars. Chances are, the average buyer will never use the adjustability of either kit, but it is nice to have for those of us who will.

850/350 sounds like a push in the making, but if you can rotate the car I'm sure it's very driveable. 850/1000 sounds like a car on the edge that would be twitchy, but loose is fast in many situations.

J

Even though its 350 in the rear, since it is a true coilover in the rear, it comes to about 835 I think Barry from RRT told me. Going a little softer in the rear lets you use the curbs on tracks more with out upsetting the car so much that it will twitch all over the place. We'll see how it works out.

Cool pic magnetic. We have been looking into a front bar change. We've been using an Eibach mounted to the control arm but have thought of going tubular to lose some weight and gain some additional adjustability. How do you like the GC front bar so far? We'll probably end up just going with a splined straight bar.

Most of the guys I know don't really know what an anti-sway bar is for. they know what it does, but not how it should be used for tuning.

If you want to get technical, most guys I know have no idea that a car doesn't sway...it does roll though, which is where anti-ROLL bars come into play. ;) :stickoutt

850/350 sounds like a push in the making, but if you can rotate the car I'm sure it's very driveable. 850/1000 sounds like a car on the edge that would be twitchy, but loose is fast in many situations.

He mentioned that his 350's are mounted on a rear coilover, which makes them fairly similiar to ~650-850's (I can't remember exactly where the spring mounts on a stock upper arm, as we have replaced ours with a tubular piece) mounted in the stock location with regards to the actual wheel rate. Generally, the front of these cars need more spring/bar for roll resistance because they have less optimal roll centers and camber curves...particularly when lowered.

I bet the 1000 pound springs on his bro's car are mounted in the stock location. You are also forgetting to account for the anti-roll bar differences on the cars which will change the effective wheel rates when trying to determine how the cars wheel feel based on their spring rates alone. RRT takes it all into consideration when recommending spring rates for the cars they build.

Also remember that the thicker the bar doesnt translate to more grip. Depending on your spring rates, a big front bar may hurt your handling. From RRT, im running 850 front and around 350 rear (true coilovers) and am running eibachs.


Very interesting!

My setup depends on track, but I run about 1100 front and 400 rear (true coilover) and the thing is planted. No rear bar, and an RD front bar.

On higher speed tracks, I stiffen the rear to about 500 or 600, but the front stays the same.

What dampers are you running?

Jon...with those big arse tires you run, you need the extra spring rate to put heat in them.

Jon...with those big arse tires you run, you need the extra spring rate to put heat in them.

I know, but I am trying to get the ratios right, and my front Koni's can't take much more spring.

I need new front struts, and some 200 to 250 NM/60mm/140 mm front springs, but I have another project right now that is taking all my money - - - - -

Then I can up the rear springs to 700 or 800 and finally try to get some HEAT!

I've got a set of Motons for you that will handle all the spring you want to throw at them. :)

I've got a set of Motons for you that will handle all the spring you want to throw at them. :)

Cool - send them out west, where they will enjoy the sunshine and warm air! I'll give them a good home.

Oh, do you mean you have them for me to buy??????

Didn't I mention I have another project that is taking all my money?

Very interesting!

My setup depends on track, but I run about 1100 front and 400 rear (true coilover) and the thing is planted. No rear bar, and an RD front bar.

On higher speed tracks, I stiffen the rear to about 500 or 600, but the front stays the same.

What dampers are you running?

Im running custom Ohlins from RRT with custom front housings. I'll post pics once I pick the car up. I have pics of the housings on my phone and there super trick. Stay tuned..

So far Ive only done one autocross on the GC front bar. Im running ADs with 700F/850R and the rear bar disconnected. Car felt great, with very quick turn ins.

Monday will be my first time at the track with the GC front bar so we'll see how it feels at the track. I will however be reattaching the rear sway before the track.

Now I just need to find some cash to give Barry so you wont ship those Motons out west ;)

So far Ive only done one autocross on the GC front bar. Im running ADs with 700F/850R and the rear bar disconnected. Car felt great, with very quick turn ins.

Monday will be my first time at the track with the GC front bar so we'll see how it feels at the track. I will however be reattaching the rear sway before the track.

Now I just need to find some cash to give Barry so you wont ship those Motons out west ;)

With those 850s out back, you could probably do without the rear bar on track too.

Jay

Quick question about the GC, I just got mine yesterday and am putting it in now. Are there no lock rings on the front bar to keep it from traveling laterally? The rear GC bar has them. With everything torqued down I can still move the bar through the mounts. Confused...

I guess I'll toss another type of sway bar in for comparison.
Jim Bell: http://gallery.underclockers.net/albums/6-28-04-at-Pocono/sway_bar_mount.sized.jpg

Quick question about the GC, I just got mine yesterday and am putting it in now. Are there no lock rings on the front bar to keep it from traveling laterally? The rear GC bar has them. With everything torqued down I can still move the bar through the mounts. Confused...

Ehh, looking at the picutre, it can only move so far before running into a bend anyway. Once the links are mounted up and the suspension is loaded, it shouldn't go anywhere.

Unloaded up on jack stands I can still move the bar 1" in either direction. Does that matter? On other cars w/ aftermarket bars I'm just used to having rings that prevent this. Does it matter? I'm putting on ADs as well. Very slick.

Doesn't matter. It's not going anywhere significant once it's loaded...and like you said, it only moves an inch anyway. I haven't seen any E36 front bars with rings on them.

Is the GC bar hollow???

Is the GC bar hollow???

yes

Unloaded up on jack stands I can still move the bar 1" in either direction. Does that matter? On other cars w/ aftermarket bars I'm just used to having rings that prevent this. Does it matter? I'm putting on ADs as well. Very slick.


You can find split collar clamps at most bearing supply shops, like the clamp the
GC rear bar uses.

GC bars are soooo light! :buttrock

If you want to get technical, most guys I know have no idea that a car doesn't sway...it does roll though, which is where anti-ROLL bars come into play. ;) :stickoutt

In a technical sense, it does sway. It is only considered a roll if a tire leaves the plane of the road surface. This is considering the tires are part of the vehicle. If you are only considering sprung mass, the yes, the body of the car does lean/roll.
:devillook